I don't get how the "Man vs. Bear" conversation doesn't just make women look kinda stupid?

wote89 · 2024-05-03T12:53:04+00:00

So, two things:

Calling it a "fear of [you]" sounds a lot like you're interpreting what that means as a specific, targeted thing instead of a broader comment about how men, on average, make women feel. Is it possible you're someone who makes women uncomfortable without knowing it? Possibly, but I feel like you'd know if you have issues with boundaries and social cues. But, otherwise, if you're not actively trying to push through the boundaries of people around you, you're not the kind of person who's dragging the average down, so you have no reason to care except to understand that those men make it so the rest of us have to be more aware in order to make people comfortable.
Bears are, ultimately, somewhat predictable. With a random bear, odds are you can either scare it off, avoid it, or otherwise escape harm. Furthermore, bears aren't cruel. Even if they view you as prey, they aren't going to try to torment you in the same breath. It's not that women are unaware (somehow) that bears can fucking dismantle a person if they want. It's that unlike humans, non-polar bears usually need a reason to try and hurt someone.

Sailor_Gloriana · 2024-05-03T13:23:36+00:00

It sounds confusing to you because you're not listening.

I've noticed that the men complaining about the "bear" answer are subtly twisting the hypothetical: They're making it out to be as if men and bears are being directly physically compared to each other in terms of one-for-one capacity for danger. So of course they start in on, "It's a bear, it has claws, it's huge...," or they make mocking memes of women standing next to bears and trying to cuddle them before getting mauled, or telling them to jump directly into bear pits at the zoo. You're acting like women are saying whether they'd rather stand right next to a bear or stand right next to a man. You're doing this in the same post. "How is a bear less dangerous than a man?"

But you all didn't listen to the scenario being asked if this is your response (just like you're not actually listening to the answers women are giving you). Most likely, a lot of you have literally never even saw the original video of the interviews and just heard about the question through the internet grapevine, and are thus getting a simplified version of the scenario being asked.

Of course a human man, when directly physically compared to a bear, is less dangerous. But that's NOT what was being asked. Nobody was asking which animal is bigger and stronger and thus more dangerous.

What is being asked is, "If you were camping alone in a forest, would you rather there be a bear out there in the woods somewhere, or a man?"

This is a completely different question and scenario from direct bear vs. man comparison. I'll repeat what someone else said (""" quote):

"""" TL;DR - "If you don't fuck with the bear, chances are the bear won't fuck with you. Men, though, will SEEK OUT women to just to fuck with them."

Long answer:

Women are not saying they'd rather be alone with a bear than their father or brother or boyfriend. It is, would you rather be in a forest with a bear (unknown type), or a man (unknown type)? So the answer boils down to two important components: likelihood, and predictability.

Bears, despite being dangerous in physicality, are actually rather passive animals, with the notable exception of polar bears (but since the question specifically takes place in the forest, polar bears are automatically ruled out by premise since they live exclusively in the arctic). They pretty much operate on a, "Don't fuck with me and I won't fuck with you," basis. Their behavior is predictable, and the likelihood of you being in a situation where the bear does anything bad to you is low. Bears have nothing personal against you and operate mostly on instinct.

Men on the other hand, or really any other human being in general, have a whole slew of unpredictable possibilities that you have to consider. They're intelligent and can become determined to fuck you up solely for the pleasure of doing so. Far more women suffer rape, torture, and murder from men than they do bear attacks, and a specified, motivated desire to target women is a notably common problem in human men.

So given every other variable being unknown other than "bear or man," what makes more sense: An animal that, regardless of type, has a high likelihood of avoiding you or reacting in a passive manner to your presence, or even if it does attack you will likely kill you swiftly? OR, an animal that has the capacity to select you, pursue you, and if it catches you, has the capacity to prolong your suffering for its own enjoyment, and statistically speaking, has a far higher likelihood of doing so than the other animal does of killing you swiftly?

It's really not a complicated answer. And frankly, men know it's not complicated, because men don't trust other men either, that's why they act suspicious and hostile towards unknown men who sniff around their daughters, sisters, and partners, or why they tense up and get nervous when they see another man's shadow in an alley at night. They don't insist, "Well hey now, let's not generalize a whole gender, what type of man is it?" in THOSE scenarios. How many of the dudes getting angry about this bear answer are the same type people who don't think trans women should be allowed in women's bathrooms because, "I don't want some random man around my daughter!!"?

Men known damn well that unknown men are to be treated as potential threats until proven otherwise, they're just pretending they don't understand it now because they take it personally when it's potentially themselves being judged. """"

Tons of women have already explained this online. Men online just blink uncomprehendingly at them and repeat, "B-B-BUT BEARS HAVE CLAWS!" once again showing they haven't actually listened.

If this bear meme has taught us anything, it's that men will often pre-decide ahead of time that a thing women do or say is stupid and then block out any information that might contradict that. They think they just know better and don't have to take what women say about this seriously, because it's more believable to them that "women are stupid" than that women might have a point they'd never considered.

rosiet1001 · 2024-05-03T12:56:36+00:00

I'm not going to spend the time arguing Man Vs Bear on the internet today because it's all over Reddit and you can see it elsewhere.

Maybe one way you could think about it it is that if so many women feel the same way maybe there's something about women's experience that you're not understanding. That would be a different take to "women are stupid".

Some women are definitely smart enough to understand statistics, that's not up for debate as it's a fact. People in general don't understand statistics. But this man vs. bear thing isn't really about statistics. And seeing it as mathematical is kind of missing the point.

Do you ever read books written by women or talk to women or ask about their experiences? People have different perspectives because of the things that have happened to them. It's interesting to be curious about that.

iaspiretobeclever · 2024-05-03T12:58:22+00:00

The worst thing a bear will do is kill me. The dignity of being some animal's meal is far greater than the potential endless torture one might endure at the hands of a man. Look up dozens of articles about men capturing and torturing women and even after death...what they do to our bodies. There is no dignity in that. Let me die.

featherblackjack · 2024-05-03T13:00:03+00:00

You're missing how dangerous a random man can be. Sure, so can bears, but bears usually have rules. Like if you bellow at them they'll generally fuck off. Will a man? Big coin toss. A bear has intentions about getting food and protecting her cubs. What are a man's intentions?

Perhaps you would better understand the Schrodinger's Rapist concept. How can you trust some man when you don't know what he's planning to do? Does he want to get to the coffee place or is he following you to see where you live? The point is literally nobody knows except him. John Wayne Gacy seemed like a nice neighbor.

XxMarlucaxX · 2024-05-03T13:10:22+00:00

Sooo you're the one with no grasp on statistics that looks stupid

tinyhermione · 2024-05-03T13:08:25+00:00

Humans aren’t a bear’s natural prey. The bear just want to be left alone. People live in woods were there are bears all their life and they are still fine.

But this isn’t a logic puzzle. It’s really about how women are so scared of strange men that they’ll feel better knowing a bear is out there than a man. And that’s a societal problem. Caused by the frequency of sexual harassment and assault.

When women answer this question, they remember times men have scared or hurt them. That’s what it’s about.

Miserable_Yam4778 · 2024-05-03T15:23:18+00:00

I live in the dead center of tens of thousands of acres of largely undeveloped land. I run into bears FREQUENTLY, and the ONLY time I fear for my safety is if it's a mom with cubs.

Look, I'm not going to talk to you like you're stupid. You DO know exactly why they're picking the bear. But you don't LIKE the reason they're picking the bear. Maybe it makes you uncomfortable, maybe it's hurtful, doesn't matter does it? The RP rhetoric teaches you women are illogical and irrational so obviously that's going to be your default position when women do something you don't understand.

Instead asking yourself why women choose the bear, focus on your own reaction. What are your feelings? Why are you feeling that way?

No amount of arguing with women is going to change their minds. The only thing you have control over is your reaction and your perspective.

Stargazer1919 · 2024-05-03T13:14:28+00:00

There's more to the conversation than cold hard statistics. There's more to life than cold hard statistics.

The stupidity is in ignoring the larger conversation and variety of viewpoints.

At least the bear isn't going to mansplain statistics.

luridlurker · 2024-05-03T13:34:25+00:00

Why are you taking it so personally?

XxMarlucaxX · 2024-05-03T13:12:50+00:00

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLQ2MuEE/

Funny_Requirement887 · 2024-05-03T17:05:17+00:00

With this question, I wonder if the following is happening:

Are people so focused on the PHYSICAL damage a bear can do to a person that they’re not taking into consideration the PSYCHOLOGICAL aspect of it as well (psychological damage can be just as bad as physical)? Granted I understand that psychological trauma can occur after an animal attack…but a human on human attack seems more damaging on the psyche than an animal-I hear more people having to go to therapy because of what a person did than what an animal did. And when choosing between the two, a person will most likely choose the one that presents the least amount of negative consequences to themselves. For those choosing the bear over a person, the bear can maul, kill, and eat you for explainable reasons. A person on the other hand can attack, assault, torture you for extended periods of time, dismember you, etc. for…idk reasons. People can be very…creative…

Another aspect of this is that we don’t know who this random person is in the hypothetical question. If we encounter a bear, we know it’s a bear, the possibilities that come with it, and how to navigate the situation to avoid an escalation. A person…not so much. Someone can look like a nice person…but can end up being a Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dahmer, OJ Simpson, etc. The scariest person you’ve ever seen can end up being a genuine, nice person. Or someone in between the two can titter to one or the other depending on how they’re feeling that day. We won’t know until we interact with said stranger or they’re obvious in their intentions. At that point, it’s too late. Not to mention that a person can act differently when given the opportunity: isolated environment, no witnesses, no repercussions, etc.

At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter whether you think a person’s choice is logical/not…this is how they think/feel/believe. And is it really that those who are choosing the bear aren’t smart…or do you just lack empathy?

amnes1ac · 2024-05-03T14:05:01+00:00

I mean, the fact that you still don't understand after so many people took the time to explain it to you makes you look kinda stupid.

Federal-Guava-3162 · 2024-05-03T13:04:44+00:00

Which statistics? Could you please share here

EffortAutomatic8804 · 2024-05-03T14:12:03+00:00

A bear's behaviour is predictable and that means you can take precautions to avoid having a negative Interaction with one....

No matter what women do, if a man chooses to be abusive, no amount of precautions will prevent it.

That's why women say they prefer bears. Maybe spend more time listening.

As to painting "all men" as dangerous, do tell, how can we recognise which ones are and which ones aren't? With a bear, any bear, you know what's what.

ExoticAd2840 · 2024-05-03T15:12:02+00:00

Bears don’t stalk women. This post is making you seem more than kinda stupid.

Excomen · 2024-05-03T15:15:01+00:00

It’s not an average man, it’s a random man in the woods. What is bro doing there?

Maleficent_Stay_1152 · 2024-05-03T15:09:19+00:00

Doesn’t take a phd in statistics to understand that women nowadays prefer to be potentially riped apart by a « dangerous animal » that kills 40 people a year Worldwide than living with the weight of being one of the 400 000 victims of SA each year. It get a little more of intelligent to understand why they make this choice.

Buzzbat1 · 2024-05-03T12:57:25+00:00

It's all ragebait.

geoffersonstarship · 2024-05-03T13:43:43+00:00

a bear won’t kidnap a woman into a basement to be its sex slave and force her to eat her own feces or pour bleach down her throat et cetera , et cetera

RevolutionaryEye5320 · 2024-05-03T14:03:41+00:00

Bear's Average Thoughts: Food. Shelter. Safety. Are my cubs okay? Are there enemies nearby? Avoid danger.

Bear's Worst Thoughts: This person is getting too close. They're a danger to me/my cubs. I'm hungry too. Must scare away or kill. Maybe still avoid fighting because I must not get wounded. Being wounded is death.

Man's Average Thoughts: Where am I in this forest? Am I lost? Are there any predators out there? Do I have enough food to get out? How do I get outta here?

Man's Worst Thoughts: Finally, away from this cucked beta pussy whipped society. Out in the wild, where I can be a real man. No rules. Just law of the jungle, as it should be. I wonder if there are animals I can kill for food/fun? People I can kill to ransack their wallets? I could end up bagging someone rich! Or better yet, some b!tches to f!ck. Haven't had real sex in a while. Pussy would be good, and no one would know out here. Those b!tches are always so high and mighty, always rejecting me. If I find one I'm going to show her what a real f!cking alpha male is. They'll pay for diminishing a man's role in society. I'm going to establish dominance, spread my superior sperm and make all my forefathers and Andrew Tate proud. Out here in the wild, as a man I am god and this is my kingdom.

The average man is generally not a problem. The average bear is generally not a problem.

The worst case bear is also likely not a problem if you keep your distance and follow common sense wildlife survival ideas (I.e Don't piss off or scare the animals, just stay away). Animals generally don't want to fight for fear of injury or death, not even predators. Plus humans are generally unappealing as food.

The worst case man is unpredictable. He might be stalking around like a mentally unstable murder hobo with a machete or a gun that he brought along to live out his macho woodsman fantasy, consciously looking for something to physically hurt or sexually assault. He might pretend to be meek, unassuming and cooperative only to turn on you when he sees an opening. He might even be consciously more or less normal until you happen to say or do something that triggers some deeply buried misogynistic rage that makes him fly off the handle and suddenly want to hurt, rape and/or kill you for some perceived slight. He's physically weaker and a worse fighter than the bear. The problem is despite being an idiot he's still smarter than the bear yet malicious, unpredictable and potentially a lying backstabbing prick.

If you don't get this, maybe you're the one who's "kinda stupid".

idiosyncrassy · 2024-05-03T12:59:13+00:00

I don’t think we need yet another conversation about someone who still doesn’t get it.

Congrats, here’s your gold star for not understanding nuance or metaphor.

ConsultJimMoriarty · 2024-05-03T22:32:59+00:00

You’re why women choose the bear.

daisy-duke- · 2024-05-03T15:52:11+00:00

IMO, the only time I'd prefer a bear is IF the man in question is a man I already know.

Avvree · 2024-05-03T17:21:06+00:00

Your walking in the woods would you rather see a bear, its natural habitat, or a man who unlike the bear is capable of capturing you and doing whatever they want to you? Personally i’d choose a bear

Emma_Lemma_108 · 2024-05-03T17:31:05+00:00

Bears are predictable compared to men. That's literally it -- that is the core "issue" behind most women's choice in this hypothetical.

We are choosing between a comparatively dumb, generally predictable predator in its natural environment and a much more intelligent, completely unpredictable (potential) predator in an isolated place. If I stay away from the bear, if I make noise or play dead in response to the bear, if I do not carry food to attract the bear...the bear is going to behave in a well-established and predictable manner 99% of the time.

If a man sees me in the woods, and if he turns out to be a predator, there is no method nearly as reliable that will help ME to control/influence HIS behavior.

Most of us would rather encounter a predictable predator than an unpredictable potential predator. This risk analysis makes further sense when you consider the real, average experience of a woman in most of the world vs. our experiences (ie the lack thereof) with bears -- I can understand the argument that most people do not actually have any firsthand experience with bears, so perhaps their analysis is flawed. Most of us do have access to general information about bears, however, and we have been told by experts that bears are predictable and not prone to attack unprovoked.

In contrast, we all have personal or secondary (a loved one's) experience with human men who DO attack unprovoked, and self-defense/safety experts are very clear about the fact that sexual/human predators require a lot of preventative measures to even potentially deter/protect oneself from.

Also, a bear may attack you, and you can survive -- because most bears are not thinking, "I WILL kill this creature," when they attack you. They are trying to end a threat (in modern times, they do not naturally predate on us for food). A bear will also not sexually assault you, and plenty of women would rather be seriously injured/maimed than raped.

A man who INTENDS TO KILL YOU will continue his attack and follow through to the best of his ability. A man who intends to rape you will keep attacking until he either succeeds or you kill him/injure him to the point that he can't continue or must run away.

Finally, plenty of men have said that they would also prefer to encounter the bear in this scenario. The whole context most people will automatically have for this situation is "I am walking alone in the woods and come across a random man." We're not (generally) picturing a well-used hiking trail or a city avenue; we're picturing an isolated location in a dense forest. There is something inherently "off" about encountering a stranger in this context, whereas a bear would be expected or at least unsurprising. If you asked people "would you rather physically FIGHT a bear or a man," I assume the answers would be quite different!

EnemyOfTrust · 2024-05-03T14:46:02+00:00

I think it's pretty obvious why.

A bear will brutally maul you.

A man will call you fat, rape you and then brutally maul you.

KaliFlesh · 2024-05-03T17:35:50+00:00

Man, I used to deny it, but I'd prolly say the bear is safer because of the fact that most bears are shy towards humans and won't harm you unless provoked (this even works in Minecraft). This question itself is left purposefully vague, tho, and it's possibly a kafka trap.

XxMarlucaxX · 2024-05-04T00:41:47+00:00

Love to see that edit! Glad you can admit it.

limerencemybutt · 2024-05-03T14:16:06+00:00

I've been alone in rooms with men and nothing happened. I've never been alone with a bear but I know I'd sh** my pants in terror thinking I'll get killed. But I think it's something to do with statistics. Like you're more at risk of getting hurt by a man than a bear or something.

WildBoy-72 · 2024-05-03T18:23:45+00:00

It's just idiots on Tiktok wearing misandry like a perverse badge of honor. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm convinced Tiktok is a plot by the Chinese government to make people even more "stOOpid" so they can take over the world without anyone realizing it.

flipsidetroll · 2024-05-03T16:40:46+00:00

It does make women look stupid. Completely stupid.

zouss · 2024-05-03T13:29:45+00:00

Eh I'm a woman who loves hiking and has had a couple scary bear encounters in my life and I agree with you. Whenever I see posts along the lines of "a bear has never raped me, a bear has never hit me" it makes me roll my eyes because I guarantee you if any of those people encountered as many bears as they do humans on a daily basis, the bears would have done a lot worse

nytnaltx · 2024-05-03T18:46:00+00:00

This is the silliest internet phenomenon I’ve ever heard of. Of course I’d rather encounter another human of any sex while alone than encounter a wild bear. The percentage of humans who would be likely to both have evil desires and act on them towards a random stranger is vanishingly low. Of course it’s possible, but statistically very unlikely.

I would wager to guess that human vs. bear encounters lead to serious injury far more often than human to human encounters, which occur nearly constantly. If humans are that dangerous, all women should be recluses.

Now I wouldn’t prefer to encounter a known sociopath, rapist, or dangerous criminal vs a bear. But a human male at random, absolutely.

Rad1Red · 2024-05-03T21:46:41+00:00

In general.

rumpots420 · 2024-05-03T23:21:10+00:00

The women you're talking about are stupid

MiquellaEnjoyer · 2024-05-03T15:56:12+00:00

Incredible that they seek to justify sexist and misandric generalizations that are used in this sub, they correctly point out that the redpill generalizes women based on the personal experiences of some men and that this is a bad thing, and indeed, it is. But when women do the same they justify it, and they are wrong, they are nothing more than hypocrites with double standards who have not dealt with the same problems that incels and redpill have, but they believe they have the authority to advise them. PLEASE do not accept these notions about yourself and about men, they are not going to get you anywhere, I was there, and you will never be able to love yourself if you accept misandrism and think of yourself as someone who has to prove It's not a monster, you don't have to prove anything, you're not and it's not fair in the slightest that anyone is treated like one due to conditions of birth, keep those people away from your life, seek help from people who don't hate you. . Thanks for your post, I know I have nothing to look for here thanks to it.

I don't get how the "Man vs. Bear" conversation doesn't just make women look kinda stupid?

Comments

The statistics do not agree with you.

Title	I don't get how the "Man vs. Bear" conversation doesn't just make women look kinda stupid?
Author	Tall_Promotion_7160
Upvotes	0
Comments	382
Date	May 3, 2024 12:36 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/1cj7mhi/i_dont_get_how_the_man_vs_bear_conversation/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/i-dont-get-how-the-man-vs-bear-conversation-doesnt.1517299 https://theredarchive.com/post/1517299