The unvarnished truth.

AyemHerself · 2021-04-10T21:32:20+00:00

Many of them PREFER the gray area. With the amount of porn out there categorized as forced, trickery, blackmail, sleepfucking, and so on, too many guys are just excited by the idea of taking sex from a woman who doesn't want to give it.

These men are just mad about consent being defined because they're rapists and fear being held accountable for it.

AdmiralRando · 2021-04-10T21:38:16+00:00

This is 100% correct. Women come at men saying, “what do you enjoy?” And men come at women saying, “what can I get away with?”

Our answer to them needs to be: Nothing.

Big-Respond8481 · 2021-04-10T20:54:13+00:00

There is no grey area. This is completely black and white. Sexual assault/harrassment/rape begins when no enthusiasm is shown. Everything that is not a cleary enthusiastic "Yes" is a "No". Every "Yes" that comes only with pressure or "persuasion" is not enthusiastic, thus a "No". Every degrading act without asking/confirming consent or any extreme act or actually anything that is not "basic" sex, is an attack, thus violent, thus assualt/rape. If she says "outch" and he does not stop, same thing.

It should be that simple. It actually is that simple, but men lie.

anywaysheresrational · 2021-04-10T20:50:58+00:00

I see no lies.

Men LOVE the limbo.

_cnz_ · 2021-04-10T22:39:00+00:00

How many men do you know that go to clubs and bars because its easier to get with women?? Or try to get a girl drunk so that its easier to convince her to kiss/suck/fuck him?

They CREATE their own gray area when they know the sober answer would be a clear no.

Disgusting and sadly normalized behavior. Most men are predatory.

2340000 · 2021-04-10T22:30:11+00:00

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2021-04-10T21:24:28+00:00

They know.

They don't care.

Equipoisonous · 2021-04-10T22:45:21+00:00

That last sentence. Sex and hookups for men is all about what they can get away with doing to women. It's not about what the woman wants. That's why there's an orgasm gap. 90% of them don't give a shit if women have an orgasm during sex, they just want to do what they can to her for their own benefit.

shutup201 · 2021-04-10T21:00:57+00:00

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gas_station_jax · 2021-04-10T22:34:20+00:00

OH MY GOD THIS. Jesus christ thank you for wording it so well. I have a hard time explaining this to people at times. Saved. Will send this to anyone who makes comments about consent being "confusing".

SearchLightsInc · 2021-04-11T00:25:50+00:00

Here's an easy rule of thumb scrotes - If its not an enthusiastic yes, its a NO!!! If she's not kissing you back - Its a a NO!! If you feel you're having to "work" to get her in the mood - YOUR VERY LIKELY COMITTING SEXUAL ASSAULT!

It's not hard once you employ empathy!

witchingsauce · 2021-04-10T22:41:32+00:00

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2021-04-10T20:47:38+00:00

This is basically what the whole pick up industry is based around. It's rapists teaching younger men how to rape more effectively and get away with it because they calculate success based on quantity not quality. Hell they even refer to the number of women they've had sex with as their "body count".

VikingDotter · 2021-04-11T04:58:27+00:00

This is so true. My ex (who coerced me into a lot of sex) insisted he never coerced me at all, that it was all in my head. Towards the end we decided to take a sex break and that he wouldn’t initiate anything at all, no matter how long it might take. Personally, I was already done with the relationship and counting down the days until he would leave but it was fantastic to not have to have sex with him at the end. He was very manipulative so I believed I couldn’t “throw him out”, and I’m so happy I found a way for him to leave on his own accord.

Anyway: he tried to initiate a shower together the last day, claiming it wasn’t sexual, asking if I was going to deny him just seeing the body of his love one last time before we went long distance (read: before he left my apartment and I then broke up and blocked him everywhere).

Even when we had the most black and white agreement - he was going to leave me alone and stop pressuring me - he still ended up pressuring me. Men don’t care about our comfort, they care about their own pleasure.

Maude2010 · 2021-04-11T02:41:46+00:00

Any man who claims to find enthusiast consent confusing is either (1) lying, (2) purposely not paying enough attention to his partners so he can claim ignorance later, or (3) has some major socialization problem that he needs help with before he can be alone with women.

eveloe · 2021-04-10T22:01:11+00:00

This is perfection. Looks like tumblr? Which account was this from originally?

SmoochOrSmother · 2021-04-11T07:20:33+00:00

This is absolute truth! I didn’t realize the extent of this before, but this explains some things I simply didn’t understand. The resistance to defining sexual harassment, the “confusion” they display.

This means that every man complaining about consent and talks about consent apps and signing stuff before sex - are outing themselves as sexual predators.

Of course a lot of men are confused about limits when their baseline for sex is coercion.

Coersion is power.

We have long said that r*pe isn’t sex, it’s all about power.

But this means that a lot of “normal sex” is really rape, because sex requires consent. And if the baseline is coersion, then we have a lot more rapists than I thought.

Plus, as someone already said, this explains the orgasm gap.

lemur00 · 2021-04-11T08:56:30+00:00

This is also why, when presented with actionable solutions to protect themselves from "false allegations" such as not having sex with people you don't know well, learning to read non-verbal cues, not mixing sex and alcohol et c, such men become angry and insist they shouldn't have to change their lives.

In this they admit they aren't really looking for help, and aren't that scared or confused. They don't want actual help or solutions, they just want to continue as they always have without women getting in the way of it by threatening them with concequences. Such "fears" are expressed only to make women to feel sorry for them, then shut up and give them what they want.

_queeeen_ · 2021-04-11T01:09:51+00:00

Totally. Goes for men you’re dating pressuring you into sex, long term partner doing sex act to your body when you’re in a vulnerable state -act you specifically asked them not to do. They’re depraved. (Edit: typo)

savedempath · 2021-04-11T04:30:46+00:00

I do think it still needs to be plainly stated. As they say Common sense is not so common. The only men I think take advantage of this are the predators, those that do not really care about women as people. Just see us as a means to an end. Otherwise I do believe speaking plainly to men especially young men ages 11-22. Otherwise incels are bred.

PollyAnnaSunshine · 2021-04-11T15:56:33+00:00

This is absolutely true. And it's the opposite for men who are decent. None of my exes were perfectly high value, and some were even pretty low value. Yet, most guys I dated were capable of being in bed naked with me, doing sexual things, but not actually having sex until I was ready and gave a clear yes. I only actually slept with one of them and that was after 6 months, during which we were very physically affectionate, and at times we had even drank a lot. All the "gray" area excuses were there and yet they didn't force themselves on me because THEY KNOW that a gray area does not equal to a yes.

The lowest value guy was the exception and he did push the boundaries, and I absolutely believe he knew what he was doing. Occasionally I still get some bad flashbacks to stuff and realize how uncomfortable I was in those situations and how wrong it was. He was also coercive in other ways and just gross.

fdssavedmylife · 2021-04-11T16:37:05+00:00

I usually go for the “nice guy,” the quiet, shy, nerdy guy, etc. (just to illustrate that there isn’t only one type of man doing this) and every man I’ve dated has pressured me into sex. Every time I’ve had sex with a man for the first time, it’s been because he’s pushing my boundaries and pretending he doesn’t remember the multiple conversations we had about wanting to wait and I’ve already moved his hand away from my chest three times and I can tell he’s getting moody about it, he told me he’s okay with waiting, but was really weird and distant the last time I “rejected” him, my anxiety is spiking, he’s going to call me a tease if we stop now, I might as well just get it over with...

That’s what’s going through my head while they’re just thinking about using my body as a blow up doll. These men all consider themselves nice guys. These men would all tell you they understand consent and would never rape someone. But then when I explained to the last guy I dated, a licensed therapist, that pressuring me to “flash” him on our fifth date after I repeatedly said no is inappropriate, he acted shocked. They know, they know, they know.

ETA: another common “move” is after stopping and saying, “hey I’d like to just stick to making out tonight okay?” and they agree, oh yeah baby, totally, totally fine. Then three seconds later they’re putting their hand between your legs again. If you do this: rot in hell — you’re a rapist

hezied · 2021-04-11T01:22:47+00:00

That last paragraph especially is worded perfectly.

Dexaroo5716 · 2021-04-11T04:15:41+00:00

🎯 🎯 🎯

ciciplum · 2021-04-11T19:09:44+00:00

That hit me like a ton of bricks. I've had so many male friends give me this excuse of not knowing where I stand, even after I specifically told them that if I wanted to fuck them, they would know and there would be 0 guessing involved. I would tell them "I don't need to be convinced to have sex and it makes me feel uncomfortable when you try that". Some would still push and prod and many of them actually pressured me into sex, and then I would be upset and would slide in a fucking black hole mentally and they'd come with the ole "well sometimes women like to be chased.. how am I suppose to tell the difference"

Aksentia_Ivanovitcha · 2021-04-11T07:52:32+00:00

Word word word

Title	The unvarnished truth.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	1210
Comments	48
Date	April 10, 2021 8:38 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/mock78/the_unvarnished_truth/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/the-unvarnished-truth.1189125 https://theredarchive.com/post/1189125

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