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[–]AyemHerself 217 points218 points219 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Many of them PREFER the gray area. With the amount of porn out there categorized as forced, trickery, blackmail, sleepfucking, and so on, too many guys are just excited by the idea of taking sex from a woman who doesn't want to give it.
These men are just mad about consent being defined because they're rapists and fear being held accountable for it.
[–]2340000FDS Apprentice 121 points122 points123 points 5 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
Yes. Can confirm. My ex couldn't get aroused when I initiated with consent. He'd turn me down because of "ED".
He only got hard when he coerced me. Everytime. I didn't have one consensual experience with him.
Men aren't idiots. They're sadists. They seek power and nothing else🙅.
[–]XRozeFDS Newbie 48 points49 points50 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
wow you just made me realize the same thing was happening with me and an ex of mine too.......
[–]Colour_riotFDS Newbie 21 points22 points23 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I was assaulted by someone who literally said, 5 minutes before that to my protests about going to his house and cuddling with him "Please, I'm not going to rape you". Repeatedly
When I confronted him about it a few days later (which is also when I realised that the judiciary - basically male - view of evidence is warped, because the victim is usually in shock and not calm enough to pull out their phone and make a police report), he had the audacity to feign ignorance.
I forced him to admit otherwise, but I was too young and naive (and traumatized) to record him down, else I would have him crying right now. He easily pulls half a million a year and his employer and the rest of the industry would sooner throw him under the bus than take such a reputational risk
[–]AdmiralRandoFDS Newbie 151 points152 points153 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This is 100% correct. Women come at men saying, “what do you enjoy?” And men come at women saying, “what can I get away with?”
Our answer to them needs to be: Nothing.
[–]savedempathFDS Newbie 20 points21 points22 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes yes and more yes.
[–]CaliforniaKed 26 points27 points28 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is the Alpha and the Omega. Amen. What can I pull over on you? How many other girls can I initiate chats with while still talking to you? His long can I go before being forced to commit? How much can I push your boundaries by talking to an ex? How many pictures of girls can I like? How far can I push you in bed? How little effort can I get away with? I am completely done. I cannot tolerate one more nudge.
[–]Big-Respond8481FDS Newbie 245 points246 points247 points 5 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
There is no grey area. This is completely black and white. Sexual assault/harrassment/rape begins when no enthusiasm is shown. Everything that is not a cleary enthusiastic "Yes" is a "No". Every "Yes" that comes only with pressure or "persuasion" is not enthusiastic, thus a "No". Every degrading act without asking/confirming consent or any extreme act or actually anything that is not "basic" sex, is an attack, thus violent, thus assualt/rape. If she says "outch" and he does not stop, same thing.
It should be that simple. It actually is that simple, but men lie.
[–]gas_station_jax 89 points90 points91 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If I ever enter a relationship that involves being physically intimate again, I will not settle for anything less than this mentality. I want someone to ask me for consent for everything, and to immediately stop any time I am not enthusiastically saying yes.
[–][deleted] 62 points63 points64 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think one of the best things to come out of #metoo is that the legal side of things really started to give way on this way of thinking and women are slowly reaching a point of being believed over presuming a man's "innocent misunderstanding".
It's infuriating that the grey area still exists at all in law, when everybody knows it's exactly as you say. We know when someone is enjoying themselves, we know when someone's uncomfortable and we know what consent really is. Our legal protections (ha) should reflect that.
[–]AnniaTFDS Disciple 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Some men get mad when I say that being coerced or pressured into sex is not consent. Yes, you didn't exert violent force, but sex under pressure, nagging to have sex or coercion is not consented sex and men know this even if they feign ignorance.
[–]anywaysheresrationalFDS Newbie 107 points108 points109 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I see no lies.
Men LOVE the limbo.
[–]witchingsauce 42 points43 points44 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
They get off on getting away with it. It’s limbo or limpbeau lol
[–]anywaysheresrationalFDS Newbie 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They absolutely get off on getting away with it. Spot on.
[–][deleted] 100 points101 points102 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How many men do you know that go to clubs and bars because its easier to get with women?? Or try to get a girl drunk so that its easier to convince her to kiss/suck/fuck him?
They CREATE their own gray area when they know the sober answer would be a clear no.
Disgusting and sadly normalized behavior. Most men are predatory.
[–]_cnz_FDS Newbie 23 points24 points25 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Can absolutely confirm this. My abuser (27M) was a serial rapist who preyed on sexually inexperienced 18yr olds who were new to our college team year after year. He’d obtain our numbers/addresses from audition sheets, groom us for during the first few weeks on the team, then purposely isolate and assault us during our weakest the first chance he got (typically heavily intoxicated while team social events).
Hed thrive off of plausible deniability for years and constantly push boundaries under the guise of being a supportive leader on the team. Even tried to act like his victims pursued his 5’3 chubby scote ass 💀🤮
[–][deleted] 5 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]2340000FDS Apprentice 37 points38 points39 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It makes them feel like God.
My favorite quote from the psychephile is, "The skilled offender has many layers of need. At a very deep level his need is to avoid death, as though he wants to become God-like. It is the essence of the biblical story that Adam wanted to be like God. It is the drama of that story that a woman was going to help him become as powerful as God. At a level of our very existence it is the role of a woman to help some men feel like God (23)."
[–]qwaliYFDS Newbie 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Is this a book? it sounds like a really good read lol
[–]2340000FDS Apprentice 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's from Don Henessey's book. Another FDS woman posted it a long time ago.
Don Hennessey is more religious than I'd like. I don't accept his other works. But in this piece he describes men who prey on woman as a "psychephile". Helped me contextualize male violence.
👌 https://cryingoutforjustice.blog/2018/02/15/the-male-domestic-abuser-is-a-psychephile-a-sexual-offender/
[–]Hoarse_GirlFDS Newbie 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's horrifying and ridiculous that they think they're hot shit for being capable of manipulating women who were raised from birth to be gullible and self-sacrificing 🙄
[–][deleted] 82 points83 points84 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They know.
They don't care.
[–]EquipoisonousFDS Newbie 75 points76 points77 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That last sentence. Sex and hookups for men is all about what they can get away with doing to women. It's not about what the woman wants. That's why there's an orgasm gap. 90% of them don't give a shit if women have an orgasm during sex, they just want to do what they can to her for their own benefit.
[–][deleted] 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]shutup201FDS Newbie 20 points21 points22 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hard as hell!
[–]gas_station_jax 42 points43 points44 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
OH MY GOD THIS. Jesus christ thank you for wording it so well. I have a hard time explaining this to people at times. Saved. Will send this to anyone who makes comments about consent being "confusing".
[–]SearchLightsIncFDS Apprentice 31 points32 points33 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Here's an easy rule of thumb scrotes - If its not an enthusiastic yes, its a NO!!! If she's not kissing you back - Its a a NO!! If you feel you're having to "work" to get her in the mood - YOUR VERY LIKELY COMITTING SEXUAL ASSAULT!
It's not hard once you employ empathy!
[–][deleted] 26 points27 points28 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It really does continue to astound me how stupid men are. All you have to do is be decent. If you treated women humanely instead of the crazy misogyny they revel in, they would have had plenty of partners/girlfriends/wives.
I always thought that if any decently contentious woman who believes that women deserve respect was suddenly transformed into a straight man, he would be the most eligible bachelor in the damn universe because he wouldn't insist on doing all the things that make men so unappealing. They really do live in a hell of their own making.
[–]witchingsauce 27 points28 points29 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Why would they do the decent thing if it kills their predatory boners? With men, never attribute to stupidity what can be attributed to malice lol
[–]Rowbloks 20 points21 points22 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. Scrotes are not dumb, they're just very self-serving and manipulative.
They're so comfortable with double standards that they judge women for not being nice while not being nice themselves. The most dangerous lie that women are told is the idea that you can put your interests into men's hands and trust them to generally handle it with care and fairness.
It's malice but men prefer to be called "dumb" because it absolves them of the responsibility to change or accept blame.
[–][deleted] 50 points51 points52 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is basically what the whole pick up industry is based around. It's rapists teaching younger men how to rape more effectively and get away with it because they calculate success based on quantity not quality. Hell they even refer to the number of women they've had sex with as their "body count".
[–]VikingDotter 22 points23 points24 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is so true. My ex (who coerced me into a lot of sex) insisted he never coerced me at all, that it was all in my head. Towards the end we decided to take a sex break and that he wouldn’t initiate anything at all, no matter how long it might take. Personally, I was already done with the relationship and counting down the days until he would leave but it was fantastic to not have to have sex with him at the end. He was very manipulative so I believed I couldn’t “throw him out”, and I’m so happy I found a way for him to leave on his own accord.
Anyway: he tried to initiate a shower together the last day, claiming it wasn’t sexual, asking if I was going to deny him just seeing the body of his love one last time before we went long distance (read: before he left my apartment and I then broke up and blocked him everywhere).
Even when we had the most black and white agreement - he was going to leave me alone and stop pressuring me - he still ended up pressuring me. Men don’t care about our comfort, they care about their own pleasure.
[–]Maude2010FDS Newbie 20 points21 points22 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Any man who claims to find enthusiast consent confusing is either (1) lying, (2) purposely not paying enough attention to his partners so he can claim ignorance later, or (3) has some major socialization problem that he needs help with before he can be alone with women.
[–]eveloeFDS Apprentice 20 points21 points22 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This is perfection. Looks like tumblr? Which account was this from originally?
[–][deleted] 21 points22 points23 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It is from tumblr, years back. The account was p0tbarbie.
[–]eveloeFDS Apprentice 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thank you. Your username always cracks me up
[–]SmoochOrSmotherPickmeisha™️ 18 points19 points20 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is absolute truth! I didn’t realize the extent of this before, but this explains some things I simply didn’t understand. The resistance to defining sexual harassment, the “confusion” they display.
This means that every man complaining about consent and talks about consent apps and signing stuff before sex - are outing themselves as sexual predators.
Of course a lot of men are confused about limits when their baseline for sex is coercion.
Coersion is power.
We have long said that r*pe isn’t sex, it’s all about power.
But this means that a lot of “normal sex” is really rape, because sex requires consent. And if the baseline is coersion, then we have a lot more rapists than I thought.
Plus, as someone already said, this explains the orgasm gap.
[–]lemur00FDS Newbie 12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is also why, when presented with actionable solutions to protect themselves from "false allegations" such as not having sex with people you don't know well, learning to read non-verbal cues, not mixing sex and alcohol et c, such men become angry and insist they shouldn't have to change their lives.
In this they admit they aren't really looking for help, and aren't that scared or confused. They don't want actual help or solutions, they just want to continue as they always have without women getting in the way of it by threatening them with concequences. Such "fears" are expressed only to make women to feel sorry for them, then shut up and give them what they want.
[–]_queeeen_FDS Newbie 10 points11 points12 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Totally. Goes for men you’re dating pressuring you into sex, long term partner doing sex act to your body when you’re in a vulnerable state -act you specifically asked them not to do. They’re depraved. (Edit: typo)
[–]savedempathFDS Newbie 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I do think it still needs to be plainly stated. As they say Common sense is not so common. The only men I think take advantage of this are the predators, those that do not really care about women as people. Just see us as a means to an end. Otherwise I do believe speaking plainly to men especially young men ages 11-22. Otherwise incels are bred.
[–]PollyAnnaSunshine 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is absolutely true. And it's the opposite for men who are decent. None of my exes were perfectly high value, and some were even pretty low value. Yet, most guys I dated were capable of being in bed naked with me, doing sexual things, but not actually having sex until I was ready and gave a clear yes. I only actually slept with one of them and that was after 6 months, during which we were very physically affectionate, and at times we had even drank a lot. All the "gray" area excuses were there and yet they didn't force themselves on me because THEY KNOW that a gray area does not equal to a yes.
The lowest value guy was the exception and he did push the boundaries, and I absolutely believe he knew what he was doing. Occasionally I still get some bad flashbacks to stuff and realize how uncomfortable I was in those situations and how wrong it was. He was also coercive in other ways and just gross.
[–]fdssavedmylifeFDS Newbie 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I usually go for the “nice guy,” the quiet, shy, nerdy guy, etc. (just to illustrate that there isn’t only one type of man doing this) and every man I’ve dated has pressured me into sex. Every time I’ve had sex with a man for the first time, it’s been because he’s pushing my boundaries and pretending he doesn’t remember the multiple conversations we had about wanting to wait and I’ve already moved his hand away from my chest three times and I can tell he’s getting moody about it, he told me he’s okay with waiting, but was really weird and distant the last time I “rejected” him, my anxiety is spiking, he’s going to call me a tease if we stop now, I might as well just get it over with...
That’s what’s going through my head while they’re just thinking about using my body as a blow up doll. These men all consider themselves nice guys. These men would all tell you they understand consent and would never rape someone. But then when I explained to the last guy I dated, a licensed therapist, that pressuring me to “flash” him on our fifth date after I repeatedly said no is inappropriate, he acted shocked. They know, they know, they know.
ETA: another common “move” is after stopping and saying, “hey I’d like to just stick to making out tonight okay?” and they agree, oh yeah baby, totally, totally fine. Then three seconds later they’re putting their hand between your legs again. If you do this: rot in hell — you’re a rapist
[–]heziedFDS Newbie 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That last paragraph especially is worded perfectly.
[–]Dexaroo5716FDS Newbie 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
🎯 🎯 🎯
[–]ciciplumAt-Risk Pick Me Youth 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That hit me like a ton of bricks. I've had so many male friends give me this excuse of not knowing where I stand, even after I specifically told them that if I wanted to fuck them, they would know and there would be 0 guessing involved. I would tell them "I don't need to be convinced to have sex and it makes me feel uncomfortable when you try that". Some would still push and prod and many of them actually pressured me into sex, and then I would be upset and would slide in a fucking black hole mentally and they'd come with the ole "well sometimes women like to be chased.. how am I suppose to tell the difference"
[–]Aksentia_IvanovitchaFDS Newbie 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Word word word
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[–]AyemHerself 217 points218 points219 points (6 children) | Copy Link
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