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[–]Hedy__LamarrFDS Apprentice 167 points168 points169 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Of course it's a need. Haven't you heard all the horror stories of men found dead in the wilderness due to lack of sex? Or the male astronauts that died in space because we couldn't get them some pussy in time?
[–]generic_redditor_FDS Newbie 46 points47 points48 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Maybe we should tell them they can have sex just refrain from an orgasm.
"But then what's the point of sex?!" they'd yell collectively. To women. Who have bad orgasmless sex more often then not.
[–]Lost_Kale90FDS Apprentice 29 points30 points31 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
😂😂
[–]verusckaFDS Disciple 129 points130 points131 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I would love to see a language shift in the way we talk about pregnancy. You’d almost think women reproduce asexually the way most people talk about it; “she got pregnant”, etc. Women get pregnant because they are impregnated by men. It’s really time to end the disassociation between men’s sexual pleasure and reproduction.
[–]LexiJay94FDS Newbie 33 points34 points35 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I would give this an award if possible!! That's so true!!
[–]escapetodosFDS Newbie 18 points19 points20 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Men are responsible for 100% of unwanted pregnancies!!
[–]ASeaOfQuotesFDS Apprentice 233 points234 points235 points 5 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
I wish people against abortion fought as hard or advocated as strongly for the women suffering from a lack of male support when it comes to child rearing. Free daycare, free school lunches, clothes and educational toys for the children. I would literally throw my tax dollars at it in a heartbeat if it existed. Just a fraction of the money spent on the military would be life changing.
[–]aeschleahFDS Newbie 83 points84 points85 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
THIS! There’s a crackpot idea being touted by the government of Scotland that it’s going to offer free IVF to single women to combat population decline and dependancy age increase.
Aside from the abhorrent notion it’s fine to risk a women’s health, mental health, autonomy and LIFE, to combat shitty economic choices, the comments under the article were like ‘but there were 13k abortions in Scotland’. So what Sandra?! You think unwanted children are the backbone of the economy!? No, there’s scores of economic and mental problems for both mother and child that come from enforced pregnancy that rarely end in success, the fact that’s even your rebuttal to this clusterfuck suggestion suggests you have a bad case of shit for brains.
[–]WchijafmFDS Newbie 28 points29 points30 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
What kind of plan is that? Wtf scotland? If a woman wants to get pregnant she will find a way. The conception part was never the issue for the majority of women. Child care, shit work schedules that leave you feeling as if you neglect your child or don't have enough time with them, and money are the issues, . A universal basic income per child per month and subsidized daycare would relieve women of some of the burdens that they consider barriers to motherhood. If the government covered childcare, and gave you $500+ per month per child you would see an uptick in population. Wages are shit, housing costs and daycare are ridiculous.
[–]aeschleahFDS Newbie 18 points19 points20 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
A bollocks one.
Birthing and raising children is a full time job, with risks, to do it for the state means you should be paid the average wage of the country, which in the UK is £39k ( $54k USD) which will never happen. Only after years of vilification of single mothers, blessed education, and men who have benefited from the sexual emancipation of women via birth control, women aren’t playing if they aren’t paying, and there is no way Scotland will pay that for an extra possible worker.
So effectively they’re saying ‘we’ll give you free IVF if you impoverish yourself, and have every jaded STAHM pickmeisha judge you, as well as every man ever’
Nah Scotland.
[–]QuickJellyfish2FDS Newbie 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Just quickly, I had a look up on the numbers as the median salary is the better way of working out the more realistic average salary and that one is actually only £31k, so it’s even worse!!
[–]Platipus6FDS Apprentice 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Scotland just passed the Big Brother thought police bill.
How the fuck are uterus bearing birthing bodies going to become pregnant when we can't even use the fucking plain language to describe ourselves without getting arrested?
[–]blacklikeyourheartFDS Newbie 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
So far I’ve only found one article on this and the government strategy is that in the future single women who want to become mothers will be offered IVF. No ones being forced into pregnancy by the government. article
[–]aeschleahFDS Newbie 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
Did I say forced by the government anywhere in my post?
I was talking about how people were referencing abortion as a rebuttal instead of the IVF, and yes, if you remove access to safe abortions you are pretty much enforcing pregnancy because women have no other option.
I stand by that.
[–]blacklikeyourheartFDS Newbie 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You called a strategy for widening access to IVF a “crackpot idea”. The wording of your comment came off like the government were actively looking to get single women pregnant regardless of the personal risks, when the reality is the government sees it as a win-win for the economy and for people who want access to IVF that don’t currently have it.
Safe access to abortion is not at risk in Scotland.
[–]aeschleahFDS Newbie 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Because it is, any country that encourages women to breed for their country because of a demographic collapse is hugely negligent against the women they’re putting this stress on.
Economically there are many ways to stimulate GDP, there are many ways to address this issue, and this attempt at increase in headcount is archaic and has been proven time and time again not to work.
I’m speaking for women, as a woman, that no matter which country is suggesting this is fundamentally wrong. If a woman wants IVF that’s her own business, but she should want it because she wants it, not because the government is looking to her to create another tax payer, I don’t see why there’s anti Scottish bias in that.
[–]blacklikeyourheartFDS Newbie 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This isn’t an FDS comment but I just need to get off my chest, there’s so much anti-Scottish bias in the British media, encouraged by the British government. We’re literally in an abusive relationship where they have been leeching off us for decades yet call us benefit scroungers and subsidy junkies. It’s a total “ I hate you, don’t leave me” situation. Part of the media bias includes taking anything positive introduced by the Scottish government and twisting it into something negative. For example, a new university hospital was opened some years back and one newspaper called it the “Death Star”. It’s frustrating to see this here at FDS, where offering increased access to medical provisions is somehow twisted into a terrible thing. Gonnae no?
Look, I would hate to think I’ve upset you and you think me to be anti Scottish, my comment was never focussed on the Scottish government or Scotland, I’d seen other countries doing this recently, such as Denmark and Hungary, and this was the most recent example, and I thought the exact same about them.
My approach was two fold, the fact that women again were being looked at to to save the country, yes, they’re being offered IVF, but it’s not for humanitarian reasons, it’s because they want something, it’s a transaction, it comes with expectation, and I personally find it wrong.
Secondly, my comment on abortion was referencing that commenters were suggesting that if Scotland did not have abortion, then this demographic issue, and therefore IVF suggestion wouldn’t be needed, by way of pointing to the statistics. Why wouldn’t I be angry at that? To suggest the removal of bodily autonomy would somehow be better? Not once did I suggest this was under threat, just my disgust that it was somehow related.
Again, I’m sorry if my comment somehow suggested any prejudice, my approach was purely FDS in that the patriarchy is looking to fix mistakes it’s made by using women, the Labour and bodies of women, rather than looking at other ways they can fix this.
[–]flowers4uFDS Newbie 55 points56 points57 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
There was just an Idaho Republican senator (I think) that voted against early childhood things like daycare/education because it allowed for women to be out of the home when he felt Like they should be home with the child.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/idaho-early-education-bill-voted-against-mothers-home-child-care-1573413%3famp=1
[–]MagnfiqueMaleficentFDS Disciple 41 points42 points43 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Just when you think you’ve stepped out away from the 1950s.🤮
[–]fdssavedmylifeFDS Newbie 74 points75 points76 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I just did the math... 1% of the US military fund is 6 billion dollars. One percent. 6 billion dollars.
Excuse me, what the fuck?
[–]MadSeaPhoenixFDS Newbie 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We have freedom to spread!
[–]Important_Page_6846FDS Newbie 62 points63 points64 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The part they don’t get is why their fathers and grandfathers had immense power over women on every legal front but they don’t. Therefore they want to make women as miserable as possible because they don’t get to stop around and get treated like a king while she suffers. It’s not a surprise that all these dumb ass arguments came around the time that women were able to leave abusive spouses, gain employment, own property and call the cops on their rapist husband.
[–]terrn1981 43 points44 points45 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm an RN. I dread having all men as patients, especially the older generation. The difference in behaviour between the sexes is astounding. All the men are like "my wife takes care of me, my wife takes care of my ostomy, I don't know how to, I don't know what meds I take, I don't know what my family doctor said to me, ask my wife..etc" . Also, they have no shame in shitting themselves, or having us female nurses come running at every demand, hold their urinals for them, expect back rubs with their bed bath that basically we have to do completely (bc their wife does it all for them at home)... they will see us nurses running, or busy, and outright pull the "NURSE! I Want to get out of bed now, NURSE! I need u to hand me my phone!" while actually expecting us to drop everything to do as they demand then and there.
Women? I find they often try to do everything on their own, at the detriment to their safety, bc they don't "want to bother the nurse". Or, they apologize constantly, or feel shame if they have an accident. I have never, not once in 20 years seen a husband looking after the wife's ostomy, or know what is going on with the wife's meds or understand her medical diagnosis. I see the husband's asking constantly when their wife is coming home however - while I can sense the relief from wives when their hubby's are admitted to hospitals. I can not understand how some of these men do not feel utter shame at themselves, nor care about their own dignity.
This is why married women die younger than single women, and married men live longer than bachelors, divorced men, or widowed men. Its why older men will jump into relationships as soon as they can after becoming single, and women stay single.
Every man that brags about not "needing marriage" or commitment, that's its all just women using them for their less than stellar income, will surely be married once health problems arise.
[–]Important_Page_6846FDS Newbie 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ugh, when will women divest and let these leeching ass males fend for themselves?
[–]ZayelleFDS Newbie 135 points136 points137 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Also, if sex is a need, they can fuck each others. The gender shouldn't matter too much as they really NEED it. If I'm starving and there is food I don't like on the table, I eat it anyway. So they can go fuck their buddies.
[–]Lost_Kale90FDS Apprentice 41 points42 points43 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I like this point, if they really need it then they could just fuk their male friends. Why don't they.. bc a lot of them just want to dominate and hurt women and that doesn't qualify as a need bRaH
[–]Revy_Ur_EnginesFDS Newbie 55 points56 points57 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
“Sex is a need” is scrotenese for I need constant validation from women to fuel my massive sized ego. If it were just about sex, they’d fuck a prostitute or another man.
[–]SpittensFDS Newbie 27 points28 points29 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No, they need free, NSA, zero-responsibility sex. So no prostitutes and none of their friends, because then they'd either have to pay up or ruin their relationship with their friends.
[+][deleted] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[deleted]
[–]DifferentBar6FDS Newbie 14 points15 points16 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm sure they can give each other much better blowjobs than a woman could
[–]Platipus6FDS Apprentice 10 points11 points12 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sex is only a need to reproduce. So men can only ejaculate inside women on the day they're emotionally and financially ready to support a baby :)
[–]Fuckdoesithurt956FDS Newbie 35 points36 points37 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Usually I hate allegories when trying to describe womens issues, but ask these fuckers to explain how stocks work, then ask if just possibly maybe they can see the similarities.
[+][deleted] 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Geocities_SEO_ExpertFDS STRATEGY COACH 30 points31 points32 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The condom whine. 💀 Just think of all the women who have either been accused of "trapping" a man, or trying to gold dig a man, but they spent years having to enforce the condom every single time.
It's insane. If I had truly been a gold-digging monster, I would have let them do what they wanted. I have no kids. Men don't get trapped, they play the fertility lotto hundreds of times, and each man thinks the 1-10% chance of birth control failure is really a 0% chance for his magical self.
[–]CrazyPaineFDS Newbie 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
In addition they will something stealthed. In very early part of my relationship with my ex we were having sex with a condom and he took it off while we were doing it. I didn't know what it was at the time but I felt so pissed off when I felt something different inside of me and at the end of it I felt betrayed but I was foolish and dumb to even know what that was at the time.
However I was more aware when I was having sex with him he would always complain about it too. It's too tight, I can't feel anything, blah blah blah.
[–]OrangeyPandaFDS Apprentice 67 points68 points69 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Men have much better reproductive options then women. They can literally choose exactly where to put their sperm which they KNOW is the only way to get someone pregnant. They can control their orgasm. Women can't physically control ovulation and even with BC there is no 100% sure way to know if it's working or not. With PIV there is nothing a woman can physically do to make her self less able to get pregnant. Men hold 100% of the power in causing pregnancies.
[–]donttextme_kFDS Newbie 70 points71 points72 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Asking for sex too early is a red flag to me. I may be too traditional but a man should know that sex can lead to pregnancy and it’s generally involves more emotions for woman, so they should truly know they are committed to you and like you before wanting to have sex with you, ie in the relationship stage and not just after a few dates. What do you ladies think?
[–]fdssavedmylifeFDS Newbie 27 points28 points29 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Men can harp on all they want about “sexual empowerment” and how women like casual sex too, but they don’t really think that. Even if a woman truly does want casual sex, men don’t believe it. They still see it as taking something from us, they still see it as “conquering” us, they feel a sense of accomplishment when they “trick” us into sleeping with them (even if it was our choice).
Back when I was “sexually empowered,” it was my choice to have sex, but those men were still using me as a fleshlight. The concepts aren’t mutually exclusive. No matter how healthy our personal view on sex is, we must be cognizant of how men see it.
[–]yggiwtmiihFDS Newbie[S] 19 points20 points21 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
I think about the language people use to insult each other. "Suck my [dick/balls]," "fuck you," "he got screwed." Anytime someone is referring to a sexual act it's meant to be a negative when referring to non-sexual situations. How does that actually translate subconsciously especially in a man's head when referring to acts in an actually sexual situation?
[–]fdssavedmylifeFDS Newbie 17 points18 points19 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I used to let sex talk slide wayyy too often. I’m shocked I ever allowed it. It’s an immediate block and delete now. It is ridiculously disrespectful to bring up sex to a woman they haven’t even met. They don’t care if it scares her off or grosses her out... as long as there’s a chance they get laid. And god forbid they may have to share a meal with someone who isn’t going to sleep with them right away.
[–]Charming-Bee-2337 19 points20 points21 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They say having sex is a biological need but if it were so would actually reproducing and having kids. In biology having sex = having children, so if it were a need for them theyd also want to have children along with that.
[–]AwkwardDisaster4150FDS Newbie 18 points19 points20 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I’ve suggested before that if men don’t want to be baby trapped they might refrain from sex with women they wouldn’t want to reproduce with. They don’t seem to like that idea much though.
[–]Geocities_SEO_ExpertFDS STRATEGY COACH 12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Don't forget all the men who are happy to defame any woman who doesn't see a zygote or fetus smaller than a lunch as the same thing as a fully formed postnatal baby, but they still slander the women who get attached to their fetuses and don't want to abort.
[–]Lost_Kale90FDS Apprentice 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I honestly feel like I could have sex just once per month, in missionary, and be happy.
[–]terrn1981 10 points11 points12 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Men cause 100 percent of pregnancies, therefore, are the cause of all abortions and their own child support payments.
[–]FitncurlyFDS Disciple 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If men could get pregnant they’d learn the words “misoprostol” and “mifepristone” in kindergarten. Fuck their opinions.
[–]sarahbae03FDS Newbie 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I would upvote this to the moon and back if I could. You knew the risks and chose to take that chance anyway. F*ckhead.
[–]mostdefinitelyntursFDS Newbie 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And I believe that certain men will claim to be pro life so they can trap you with a kid
[–]PossibleCookFDS Apprentice 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
This is the type of argument anti-choice people use against women who want abortions. I get the point you’re trying to make but this isn’t the way to make it.
[–]MelatoninNightmaresFDS Apprentice 32 points33 points34 points 5 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link
The difference is that women have no conscious control over our fertility. We can't choose to ovulate or not ovulate, and we can't choose when we ovulate.
Men have 100% total conscious control over their fertility. They choose where and when they orgasm. Since the only way to cause pregnancy is ejaculation inside a woman, if they don't want to have a child, they could just... not put their penis inside a woman's vagina. There are other ways to have sex, for which the risk of pregnancy is 0%. If they absolutely must have PIV sex, they can wear a condom, pull out well before orgasm, and have their orgasm somewhere else. If a man does those two things every time, it's actually more effective at preventing pregnancy than the pill (both for perfect use and realistic use). Just don't put your uncovered dick inside a vagina, and don't orgasm inside a vagina. That's it.
If a guy actually did both of those things, and still ended up on the hook paying child support for a kid he didn't want, I might find some sympathy for him. Sometimes, the odds aren't in your favor. Since that's not the case for the overwhelming majority of unwanted pregnancies, men can suck it up and take responsibility for their actions. They wield their dicks irresponsibly and cry when they don't have the right to force a woman to have an abortion or give the child up for adoption.
Maybe it does sound kind of like anti-choice rhetoric, but the thing is - once a woman is pregnant, men don't have a choice. That's the flip side of not having to deal with the risk of pregnancy. You don't get a choice in what someone else does with her pregnancy. If you can't deal with the risk that she might choose to keep the child and you'll be on the hook for child support, put your sperm somewhere else.
[+]PossibleCookFDS Apprentice -12 points-11 points-10 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, it does sound incredibly anti-choice. While I agree with the standard point of men not getting to decide if the women gets to keep the baby or not, I highly disagree with shaming people for having consensual sex. Are people who don’t use birth control when they don’t wanna get pregnant dumb? Absolutely! But literally everything you said is what anti-choice people say, they just flip it on women. (Not to mention that birth control can fail but that’s an aside). Instead of shaming people for having sex (which isn’t necessary but a natural human thing that happens) we should be advocating for better sex education and accessible birth control. I personally don’t want children, that doesn’t mean I’m going to just never have sex again and I have every right to seek out an abortion if my birth control fails (and I would have a right to seek it out even if I hadn’t used birth control). I don’t care if this post is targeted at men because these same things are said to women all the time. So as I originally stated, I get OPs point but this isn’t the way to make it.
[–]MelatoninNightmaresFDS Apprentice 17 points18 points19 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, I don't care about shaming men for consensual sex. Men having consensual sex with women is one of the greatest causes of human misery, second probably only to men having non-consensual sex with women. I would very much like men to feel a little more shame about the way they use that weapon in their pants. Maybe they'll keep it to themselves occasionally, and women's lives will improve.
[+]PossibleCookFDS Apprentice -16 points-15 points-14 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
So, a man and a women having consensual sex is wrong? If you don’t want to have sex that’s fine but don’t act like everyone else who does it is inherently wrong. That’s such a weird thing to hate.
[–]MelatoninNightmaresFDS Apprentice 17 points18 points19 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I did not say that. I said "I would like men to feel more shame about the irresponsible way they use their dicks, so that maybe they'll use it more responsibly." When men wield their dicks irresponsibly, even in an entirely consensual context, they put women at risk. I think they should feel some shame about that, rather than feeling entitled to stick their dicks wherever they want, whenever they want.
[+]PossibleCookFDS Apprentice -14 points-13 points-12 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
And that type of thinking is literally turned around on women by anti-choice people all the time. It’s the “don’t spread your legs” trope. Everything you’re saying has been used against women for centuries.
[–]MelatoninNightmaresFDS Apprentice 20 points21 points22 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't know how else to explain to you that men and women are different, and our burdens, risks, and responsibilities regarding sex and pregnancy are different. A woman's orgasm has never caused a single unwanted pregnancy, but every single unwanted pregnancy was caused by a man's orgasm. A woman can have sex 100 times a day, every day, for her entire life, and not get pregnant unless a man wields his dick irresponsibly and ejaculates inside her. Context matters.
And that's all I have to say about that.
[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm glad someone said it.
[–]PossibleCookFDS Apprentice 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Honestly I thought I was gonna get downvote but I had to say something. (Hell I might still get downvoted to the ground) but I stand by what I said.
[+]flowers4uFDS Newbie -12 points-11 points-10 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Idk I would be all for tightening up abortions if we put a great amount of effort into sexual education, consent laws, and free/subsidized birth control. I honestly think if we could get our shit together we could eliminate most abortions. But people who are anti choice really just want anti sex and that’s never going to happen
[–]PossibleCookFDS Apprentice 16 points17 points18 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Hard disagree on “tightening up abortion laws” that’s dictating the rights someone has to choose what to do with their own bodies. Women have already suffered through that through out all of history, why would you want to go back to that? We don’t get to decided what a “valid” reason for wanting an abortion is. If someone wants one simply because they don’t want a child that’s valid.
[+]flowers4uFDS Newbie -10 points-9 points-8 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yea I get that. I guess I mean I’d listen to the other side of the argument if they did things to prevent them to begin with. But until that happens I’m not even willing to entertain them.
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[–]AwkwardDisaster4150FDS Newbie 18 points19 points20 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Geocities_SEO_ExpertFDS STRATEGY COACH 12 points13 points14 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Lost_Kale90FDS Apprentice 11 points12 points13 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]terrn1981 10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]FitncurlyFDS Disciple 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]sarahbae03FDS Newbie 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]mostdefinitelyntursFDS Newbie 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]PossibleCookFDS Apprentice 9 points10 points11 points
(16 children) | Copy Link
[–]MelatoninNightmaresFDS Apprentice 32 points33 points34 points
(8 children) | Copy Link
[+]PossibleCookFDS Apprentice -12 points-11 points-10 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]MelatoninNightmaresFDS Apprentice 17 points18 points19 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[+]PossibleCookFDS Apprentice -16 points-15 points-14 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]MelatoninNightmaresFDS Apprentice 17 points18 points19 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[+]PossibleCookFDS Apprentice -14 points-13 points-12 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]MelatoninNightmaresFDS Apprentice 20 points21 points22 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]PossibleCookFDS Apprentice 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]flowers4uFDS Newbie -12 points-11 points-10 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]PossibleCookFDS Apprentice 16 points17 points18 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[+]flowers4uFDS Newbie -10 points-9 points-8 points (1 child) | Copy Link