Just about every conversation I've had with more feminist-leaning women about this subject goes something like this:

Me: You can't just assume men you know nothing about are creeps and treat them like a potential threat simply because you don't reciprocate their feelings, that's incredibly dehumanizing and hurtful.

Her: Yes that's true but its still not as painful as actually getting raped, that's even worse. Some guys don't deal with rejection well.

Me: Ok fair point, I'd rather be unfairly treated like a creep than raped, but isn't rape actually much more rare than people say, meanwhile, tons of men get treated like monsters and get their self-esteem destroyed every day simply for expressing interest in a woman? Does one evil excuse another, no matter how seemingly justified?

Her: You're perpetuating rape culture by minimizing female issues!! Don't you care at all for how safe I feel?!?

Me: Of course I care, but I don't think I can be held responsible for the way you subjectively feel, and I think a lot of your anguish about this is self-inflicted paranoia.

Her: Wow, you don't care about my feelings at so why should I care about yours? You're a flaming misogynist incel!!!

I'm definitely more towards the side of holding my ground on this issue, but lately I've realized that I've never really found out how other users of this sub feel about it. I'm questioning things and more than a little torn at the moment. I'd especially like to hear from female LWMAs, because I do care about your perspective. I'm just skeptical about the idea there isn't a better way.

Or maybe this issue is more nuanced than I first thought. For instance, someone I talked to recently brought up a good point: what if you live in an extremely high crime area? Does that not make guardedness more justifiable, even if it makes men feel like they are seen as monsters? (I mean, if its a higher crime area, aren't more of them likely to actually be monsters instead of innocent?)

For context, I'm talking mainly about things like pretending to say "yes" to a date only to give out a fake number, all the way up to women going pale and stiff and asking men to never speak to them again (yes that actually happened to me). Perhaps these concerns seem trivial in comparison to the possibility of rape, but it can't be overstated what kind of cumulative effect this sort of reaction has on a man's psyche. Most women won't be raped in their life, but most men face this kind of treatment every time they asked out a girl. At least I did. Over time you eventually begin to feel like a hideous freak that, as a categorical axiom, no woman could even tolerate being around, much less love. Meanwhile, most of those women as well as men who don't even stop to consider such serious issues as this will probably go on to have plenty of relationships and sexual encounters.

If this post sounds vaguely incel-y, so be it. I can't deny that is literally what I am at this point (if you go by the pure definition) though I disagree with the self-hatred, misogyny, and other elements of "incel culture".