A conversation with my therapist

killcat · 2022-07-21T02:21:25+00:00

Remember they are largely educated in a system that teaches feminist theory, men CANNOT be the subject of oppression or bigotry under this theory.

TheRabid · 2022-07-20T22:04:18+00:00

Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

I find that the easiest way for me to move forward is to ask certain questions about people's beliefs. If they don't align, then I don't engage them in thoughtful discussion.

For example, if people tell me that they believe in positive discrimination, then I don't think that it's worthwhile to discuss bias with them.

GulchDale · 2022-07-20T23:49:36+00:00

Psychologists are almost all big time feminists. Their advice to men is to be more like women. Men are nothing more than broken women to them. They are starting to realize how female centric their advice and treatment is, but they have a long ways to go.

Efficient_Creme_3067 · 2022-07-21T02:27:57+00:00

As someone who has had many therapy sessions (many being group sessions) due to a suicide attempt while in the military (military doesn’t play around with mental health issues) i can tell you one of the MAIN goals is to find your CORE issues. Most professionals like to call it your “dirty core”. So it is possible that he may have used your concerns about discrimination as an inroad to find out WHY you felt discriminated against, not determine IF you were discriminated against. The truth is, a “healthy” thinking process allows us to handle trauma (or perceived trauma) in a healthy way, not in a way that makes us feel “less” or that causes us to lash out.

It should be VERY well understood by anyone with a brain, discrimination is a crime that can be committed by everyone, against anyone. So men can be targets of it. But i would suspect a therapist with any skill at all would try to find out why you felt attacked and use it to get to your dirty core.

Sometimes this method can seem dismissive, as many times i felt dismissed, but ultimately it was successful in finding my issues.

Turns out, i have Borderline Personality Disorder, which makes me take even the smallest slights, and make them MAJOR slights in my mind, and i reacted wildly incorrect.

I’m not saying that’s what happened here, but be very mindful that sometimes, our broken thought processes can trick us into thinking a situation was much worse than it actually was.

jokerfriend6 · 2022-07-21T00:09:54+00:00

Write down in words on paper why these actions of being discriminated against affect you, so next time you meet you can go over them... Now I would ask him if he would feel the same way, if it happened to him, and if so what he would do about it.. If he refuses to engage about his thoughts I would dump him as a therapist...

EmirikolWoker · 2022-07-20T22:08:43+00:00

I gave him specific examples in my life, to which he just responded “ why does that bother you”.

Counsellor here. What I suspect he was doing there was bringing the focus onto you, your thought process, and your values. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's ignorant of mens' issues (though that's still a possibility), it could mean that he understands and wants to focus on you, rather than society at large.

KissMyAsthma-99 · 2022-07-20T22:21:05+00:00

He is not an amazing person, or therapist. Find a new one. Don't continue getting advice from someone who cannot even acknowledge reality.

ruMenDugKenningthreW · 2022-07-21T04:13:19+00:00

Really sounds like you need to find a better therapist, but given the scarcity of qualified, let alone good, professionals, may have to put up with the bullshit.

Could also put it back towards your therapist. Point out that by dismissing how you feel, he's not only failing to support you professionally, he's doing exactly to you what you're talking about. His response to your criticism, given you don't verbally attack him, will tell you all you need to know if you should continue with him or not.

WiseBoy_Level100 · 2022-07-21T11:32:58+00:00

I told to my therapist about my worries that my ex-girlfriend had cheated on me. She said it was her right to explore her sexuality. She didn't seem to understand that, if two people are in an exclusive, serious relationship, it's not your right to have intimate interactions with other people. That's exactly what you cannot do in this agreement.

Isair81 · 2022-07-21T11:51:24+00:00

That’s pretty much what I’ve been told everytime I’ve opened up to anybody. Vaguely sympathetic but ultimately dissmisive.

These days I’m sticking with ”I’m fine.” Or ”It is what it is.”

rabel111 · 2022-07-22T00:25:58+00:00

Psychology as a health profession has lost the trust of men and boys after decades of negative framing of masculinity and the relentless unscientific application of feminist theory to modern practice. Lost with that trust, is the privilege of being men's confidants and partners in mental health, swapped out for being active perpetrators of the prejudice and gendered hatred that drive many men into isolation and depression, and away from essential but male hostile health services.

That trust and privilege is not won back with weasel words and further framing of masculinity as a harmful doctrine. The future of psychology as health profession is at risk.

HikuroMishiro · 2022-07-21T03:04:54+00:00

It seems a lot if not most therapists are very feminist and not well equipped to deal with male specific issues. This idea is disputed by one of the other comments, but never having gone to therapy myself or conducted my own research on them, I'm relying on the anecdotal evidence of multiple people here that have found that to be the case.

I'd try to get some clarification next visit if he was just being dismissive, or if it was just him trying to get you to be more specific and delve into it. If he can't be understanding about why discrimination bothers you, I'd highly suggest getting a new therapist. If he's just using some psychological mumbo to discuss the matter in a different way then I'd still be a bit wary but go with it for a bit. Ultimately you need to determine if he's actually capable of listening to you on this and being supportive, or if he's not. If he's not you may want to dump him for a therapist that will, or if it's not that big a deal to you than just keep going for the other things he's helping you with and perhaps seek support for the male discrimination elsewhere.

glodde · 2022-07-21T05:10:08+00:00

I was involved in joint marriage counseling sessions before I was divorced. A lot of therapists never really seem to grasp the issues I brought up, or they glossed over them, dismissed them even. There was a lack of severity and seriousness about my concerns. This was things like gaslighting, manipulation tactics, physical attacks, button pushing and self centeredness coming from the SO. And they would still focus on me or put blame on me. Or that I was the riot cause for her acting this way. I know if the roles reversed the situation would be heavily addressed.

ProphetOfChastity · 2022-07-20T23:25:56+00:00

I would just add that everyone has their blind spots on issues and philosophical principles and sometimes you just have to decide whether it is worth bringing them along or setting that issue aside and only engaging with them on other topics.

Examples of this abound in our cultural life and in our personal life. For example, Dave Chappelle is often seen as based and he is pretty good at seeing through the establishment's lies about feminism and the radical transgender activist lobby. On the other hand, he also subscribes to a lot of the BLM narrative. On its face this does not make sense since most far left issues all emanate from the same mishmash of critical theory/marxism, social constructivism, and post modernism. The fact that he can see patriarchy theory is BS and that all the trans oppression narrative is made up and wildly exaggerated should dispose him to see how a lot of the same fallacies and critical theory BS are at play with BLM. He should be more primed to see how the media and corporate establishment lies incessantly about BLM, like he recognizes for the other topics. But he doesn't because he has a personal history and emotional investment in black identity issues and so he is blinded to the parallels.

I know people like this in my life too. Right wing women who see through the BLM and trans crap but still swallow feminist lies, anti-feminists who think white people are all oppressors, Jews who don't buy the trans, feminist, or BLM stuff, but see anti-semitism around every corner and under every rock, etc. It all comes down to their own story and what emotionally activates them. In most cases there is nothing you can do about it so you just have to decide if the sensibilities that they have which align with yours can be the focus of your relationship and the other stuff can be waved away.

TAPriceCTR · 2022-07-21T05:05:46+00:00

I had a counselor say that my financial ruin from my prior marriage was my fault because I should have reigned in her spending and hospital hopping... yeah, so I could have been hit with financial abuse allegations.

Smooth_Influenze · 2022-07-21T03:54:59+00:00

Idk what your problem you are facing... But if your therapist is unable to see the problem you are facing after explaining it to him. Maybe you need a new therapist.

Why something bothers you is invalid... all that matters is that it bothers you...He should be telling how to deal with the situation than saying the situation is not worth being bothered about.therapists should be helping you make yourself better/stronger...not check whether what bothers you is valid or not. That doesn't concern him

DougDante · 2022-07-21T03:46:17+00:00

I am not a attorney and this is not legal advice.

he just responded “ why does that bother you”.

Perhaps you would be better served with a psychologist who is familiar with men's issues. These may be difficult to find.

Recall that psychology is a woman dominated field, and may fail to address the needs of men and boys.

Women earning doctoral degrees in psychology outnumber men three to one. What does this mean for the future of the field?

Other male students say their voices are drowned out. Kelvin O, PsyD, was one of 12 men in a class of 70 in the clinical psychology graduate program at Alliant International University in Los Angeles. "Sometimes I felt like my voice wasn't really heard," he says.

Men: A growing minority?

https://www.apa.org/gradpsych/2011/01/cover-men

beleidigtewurst · 2022-07-21T06:02:11+00:00

It is called "red pill" for a reason.

Accepted narratives are in wild contrast with reality, which is not easy for many to accept.

mrbeets6000 · 2022-07-21T02:33:00+00:00

He might not be saying why does it bother you in a way that's downplaying issues, and instead trying to get you to open up about why it is bothering you, since he is a psychologist

shifurc · 2022-07-21T04:14:41+00:00

In the end no one cares about men. Not really. And hardly at all about boys. Social experiment after experiment show this. I did see one case when a man in a womens clothing store comforted the actor. But that was rare.

throwaway22558 · 2022-07-21T09:23:36+00:00

I had this issue and I don't see it as a discrimination issue nor a feminist one. I call it a lack of understanding of the real world or sympathy. My therapist seemed to kind of understand after it.

A solid example: if you get a 5% raise and your coworker gets a 7% raise but you both do exactly the same work and get exactly the same result, then you would think that's unfair. Yet rationally, it shouldn't matter since you are getting a raise for your work.

Now imagine the same scenario but your coworker doesn't show up work on time, leaves early, and offloads the work to you. While you have to scrub the toilets even though its not in your contract.

Your therapist probably missed the human tendency for bias towards fairness and missed the context of female/male treatment for the same actions. I suspect that he is evaluating your mentality in a sandbox. If you instead communicated how that women are privileged by and far in society whereas men are treated like shit for the exact same actions, he may begin to understand.

RedcloudGeorge · 2022-07-21T03:41:53+00:00

Give him another chance. Prepare what you're going to say. Make your case for the systemic bias against men in society and how it's damaging to your mental health. See if he really thinks men can't be discriminated against or if he's just trying to probe into your perspective and get you to voice your feelings. Keep an open mind and don't decide ahead of time what it is he's doing. Legitimately try to find out when you talk to him.

But if he can't acknowledge how you feel and that it's valid, I don't see how he could be a truly helpful therapist. Inevitably, his idea of helping you toward health will involve getting you to deny the insidious societal trap men are in and to get in line with the feminist agenda. And that's no kind of mental health.

If he can't be a true therapist to you, meaning he can't ultimately help you heal, don't stay with him just to have someone. Having the wrong person to talk to is worse than having no one. It's a tough road going it on your own, but that's how it is when you're surrounded by people who won't believe you, whether or not you actually admit how alone it leaves you. It's survivable, though. I can vouch for that.

BoudiccaGoesWest · 2022-07-21T04:59:14+00:00

Last I knew, Paul Elam was still taking on therapy clients. Highly recommend. He’s amazingly empathetic, and is highly informed on men’s issues. He will NOT shut you down with misandrist viewpoints.

If he’s not practicing anymore, I’m sure he has referrals.

Izalias · 2022-07-21T11:02:13+00:00

He's your therapist, not your friend.

It is his job to "ask probing questions".

So the question "Why does the systemic abuse of men bother you?" is expected from a therapist

Therapists are there to help you be: A functional member of society.

A therapists job is to "Make you okay with the horrors that society may inflict upon you".

This is also a key to why a therapist is not anybody's friend, when an element of society needs to change, or if you are being mistreated by society, a therapist is on societies side not yours and not any of the victims.

So make no mistake, seeing a therapist is not a healthy outlet for you for you in this instance.

AdAcademic4290 · 2022-07-21T16:23:21+00:00

He doesn't have to understand it for himself. He just needs to understand it's a problem *for you *.

hehimCA · 2022-07-21T17:30:43+00:00

Wow that’s crazy. I would have a conversation with him about it with some basic facts he should know, like that 80% of suicides are male. Men and boys are treated like crap by society. If he doesn’t get that, for me, that would be an issue.

SportsNutJob · 2022-07-21T18:49:39+00:00

Therapists are great, but most of them really do have a social stance they won't let go of with their patients.

BetterOffCamping · 2022-07-22T03:15:50+00:00

I am here just to point out that a question like "why does that bother you?" Generally is not an indication of disbelief, or disregard so much as a tactic psychologists use to get you to think about what you feel.

It helps them understand you better, and more importantly might get you to realize something you hadn't considered directly before. Simply answer the question out loud and see what happens.

charvey709 · 2022-07-21T04:14:18+00:00

Don't take this the wrong way, but you're going to need to eat your wheaties. You cannot blame the world as the source of your problems. There isn't a solution for that. What is he suppose to say? You're right the world has it out for you, better pack it in now? Alternatively, is he suppose to say how good you've got it? Youre not stuck in Ukraine or Afghanastan (I'm assuming at least). You telling him this is a loaded statement, he cannot help you to a feel good solution. Accept your life for how it is and take control in the things you have control in, and that which you have no control should decrease.

tenchineuro · 2022-07-20T23:09:22+00:00

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loco_stealth · 2022-07-21T06:21:21+00:00

If I were him I'd say let's talk about the ways you feel disenfranchised, but of course I'd urge perspective. This is your burden to bear, but other people have other burdens, and life isn't necessarily overall worse for you or easier for them. Yet of course we see women getting a lot of support in the culture to redress the way society has failed them, and men don't get a whole lot of that kind of moral support as it stands right now. Maybe we should fix that. Maybe that's part of the story we tell about men needing to be strong and therefore able to stand up for themselves and not need society. What do you think?

ShadyShamaster · 2022-07-21T08:30:01+00:00

"Why does that bother you?" Isn't he supposed to tell you why and how you can fix it?

elebrin · 2022-07-21T12:14:50+00:00

. I gave him specific examples in my life, to which he just responded “ why does that bother you"

It's his job to ask that question, and guide you to better understanding exactly how you feel. You should be able to articulate why you feel the way you do - if you can't, then how you feel may be irrational, and recognizing that might be the first step in coping with strong feelings that you don't fully understand.

I don't know what examples you gave, but... is it really so wrong to ask a question that forces someone to confront the way they feel? Isn't that exactly what a therapist does? Therapy isn't a pity party where you sit there crying and getting hugs, that's called wallowing.

Balages · 2022-07-21T18:33:05+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	A conversation with my therapist
Author	jessi387
Upvotes	227
Comments	137
Date	July 20, 2022 9:50 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/w3ykjx/a_conversation_with_my_therapist/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-conversation-with-my-therapist.1124498 https://theredarchive.com/post/1124498

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