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End circumcision

dummuru

March 3, 2020
2998 upvotes
/r/MensRights
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Post Information
Title End circumcision
Author

dummuru

Upvotes 2998
Comments 473
Date March 3, 2020 3:28 AM UTC
(6 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/fcog6z/end_circumcision/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/end-circumcision.857765
https://theredarchive.com/post/857765
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Comments

[–]TWR3545 449 points450 points451 points 6 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

Yes.

Stop cutting babies genitals. Unless there is something medically wrong. No.

[–]MissingTheMarc 165 points166 points167 points 6 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

Most tight foreskins at birth loosen out over time. Even if they do not it is safest to cut after the boy is above the age of 16, at the earliest.

[–]ThEGr33kXII 102 points103 points104 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I had a tight one. Tore my banjo quite a lot when I first started having sex. I didn't consider it that much of an issue... Certainly not enough to remove the end of my dick.

All fine now.

[–][deleted] 36 points37 points38 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I had to stretch it myself to be able to clean it properly in my teens and it too was difficult the first few times I had sex. After that it has all been good.

[–]ThEGr33kXII 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah yes. Same story. I probably should have added I did clean it ha ha.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Damn is it painful to stretch it? Im a girl and that sounds painful eee

[–]ThEGr33kXII 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes and no. It's difficult to describe.

[–]vodoko1 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Circumcised gang

[–]cirebron 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol never heard it referred to as a banjo before. Like it.

[–]ThEGr33kXII 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

To clarify, that's the bit that holds the foreskin to the main penis on the back side. I think it's official term is the Frenum. It stopped my foreskin going back (in my case) all the way so tore... Eek.

[–]Throwaway_Old_Guy 50 points51 points52 points 6 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

Unless I've read it wrong, the foreskin IS attached to the glans and should not forcibly be made to retract until at least 2-3 years old.

It is not uncommon for it to be fully retractable until puberty or a bit later.

Of course, if you whack it off when the child is a few days old, they'll never know the difference. That makes it OK.

[–]keloking88 36 points37 points38 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Mine was and around 10 it all let go and hurt for a couple of days but no problems now but it's scary some parents think its OK to mutilate their own kids because of this

[–]Throwaway_Old_Guy 36 points37 points38 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

it's scary some parents think its OK to mutilate their own kids

They've been led to believe it's the right thing to do by being misinformed/lied to.

The "it's no big deal" thinking might change if it became the rule to remove the clitoral hood of any woman that insists on having their child circumcised.

[–]keloking88 17 points18 points19 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Agree its such a double standard and the way some women justify male but not female circumcision is crazy

[–]cajunFAITH 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s best we just make sure people are educated on the matter. I wish I would have known better but I’ve never heard otherwise

[–]Throwaway_Old_Guy 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree.

It's unfortunate that, for a segment of the population (which varies around the globe) it's something that is deeply ingrained in their belief system, and no amount of education will dissuade them.

We have people that will argue in support of anti-vaccination and flat earth theory, despite sound evidence that refutes both.

[–]Orchidbleu 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Some parents are lied too. Some know better but don’t care. Cut fathers are unfortunately big promoters.

[–]Orchidbleu 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My son is 8 years and as far as I’m aware does not retract. Puberty i think is the go to for retraction since boys start the change to a man then.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

2-3 is way too young.

Puberty or even later is when you can start trying to retract. But don't force it. Forcing it can cause scarring and phimosis.

[–]Throwaway_Old_Guy 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

It's possible I didn't remember the articles I've read correctly.

I have some memory of Mom pulling it back and cleaning it while giving me a bath. Would have been less than 10 y/o.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Basically the head of the penis and the foreskin are fused together like the fingernail to the nail bed. This will, in almost all men, dissolve naturally by adolescence. There is no need to clean inside it because theres nothing to clean. Trying to clean inside by forcing it back prematurely can cause scarring, infections, and phimosis and many men who "require" a circumcision later in life because of improper care when they were younger.

[–]light_bringer777 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

By adolescence?? Now I'm curious, because my 3yo son's doctor has started telling us to pull it back (though nothing major so I'm really not scared of it being horrible advice either). "Funnily" enough, she even mentioned it somewhat frequently causes minor infections...

I remember mine being pulled back in a single doctor visit when I was 5 or 6, and let's just say I peed screaming for 2 weeks. Not sure if this was a mistake, a stupid doctor or a stupid trend at the time, but my entire family remembers that one.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I would trust your gut man. With your experience, does that seem like the right thing to do for your son?

Let me just say that many doctors have little to no knowledge of intact penises or how to care for them. The foreskin is often completely absent from medical textbooks. As if, by default male biology is circumcised.

This page has more info on intact care.

https://www.yourwholebaby.org/intact-care-menu

[–]try_____another 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s better that he does it because he won’t pull it too far, but if you’re gentle it should be OK. It starts to noticeably detach around 2-3, and is usually fully detached by 10 or so but there’s nothing wrong with it still being partially attached until late in puberty.

[–]agree-with-you 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, this does seem possible.

[–]hectorgarabit 15 points16 points17 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That;'s why you should let your little boys play with their penis. The skin will naturally detach over time.

I have to say that I don't understand the supposed cleanliness aspect of having circumcision. Most men are not circumcised in France and I have never heard of any cleanliness issue.
There are way more folds and crevices in a vagina. Did anyone propose to cut the whole thing? If women can clean their vagina, men can clean their dick.

[–]light_bringer777 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That;'s why you should let your little boys play with their penis. The skin will naturally detach over time.

Just had a routine checkup for my 3yo son and the dr asked "does he play with his penis a lot" to which we replied not at all, thinking we had a well-behaved boy.

Couldn't help but laugh a little when she said "Alright well encourage him to from now on" for this very reason.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's true. It's similar to lifting a fingernail off a bed. They also have the added function in babies of protecting from urinary tract infections.

[–]Orchidbleu 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Besides that there is a dorsal slit and steroid creams for stretching I believe. Not need for total amputation.

[–]18Apollo18 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Preputioplasties are better than dorsal slits.

[–]Orchidbleu 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Wtf is that. Literally never heard that term. Ofcourse I also don’t have an penis I’m concerned with.

[–]18Apollo18 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Basically they slice the skin dorsally, resposition it and then stich it back up. A small barely noticeable scar is left on the underside of the penis, other than that it's no different than an intact penis. A dorsal slit just slices down the middle of the foreskin and leaves it cut open in a V.

Here's a diagram comparing the procidures

[–]ocks_ 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. I thought I might have to have mine removed but there's literally no problem now.

[–]Korinthe 15 points16 points17 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think this is a great way of phrasing it; keep it neutral and to the point. What's there to argue about?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"What's there to argue about."

You'd think it would be that easy, but unfortunately, this topic inspires a lot of really crazy justifications and rationalizations for cutting up baby penis. You can see it in this very thread.

[–]Mrskirksey 264 points265 points266 points 6 years ago (49 children) | Copy Link

I will be a mom soon, and I am.NOT circumcizing my boy. Never. It is horrible and I cant believe we do it here (I live in USA)

[–]corpuscaIIosum 30 points31 points32 points 6 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Be aware you might get quite a bit of pressure to do so one he's born.

[–]Prettttybird 25 points26 points27 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

From the doctors...

[–]liriodendron1 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends on who the doctor is ours was vehemently against it but had to do it out of obligation as a physician.

[–]katamaritumbleweed 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

30 years ago, my doctor announced as he was leaving my room, that he was going to circumcise my son. I exclaimed, “What?! We never discussed this!” He shrugged and left the room without going near my son that day. WTF was my OB/GYN doing giving circumcisions? I was scared and freaked out from that experience. Every time I remember it, my stomach does flip flops, wondering if he let every new mother know, or would just amputate their baby’s penis without consent.

[–]Orchidbleu 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

OBs are surgeons. Hence their likely hood of doing a c-section:

[–]katamaritumbleweed 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Unfortunately, I know OB/GYNs are surgeons; they’ve been cutting women up for decades. The fact is, he never discussed it with me, and if he had not nonchalantly told me he was doing it, I wouldn’t have known until after the fact.

[–]Orchidbleu 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Unfortunately consent isn’t asked often in hospitals it seems. I’m glad your little is safe.

[–]katamaritumbleweed 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you. It’s appreciated more than you know. Almost 31 years later, and I still feel the fear and rage from that moment. CPTSD & PPD from that entire experience.

[+]Invaala -12 points-11 points-10 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

circumcision is really really not like amputation, cutting of a piece of skin on your hand isnt like amputating your hand

[+]GitGudScrubzzz1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

Foreskin contains several dedicated tissues and tens of thousands of nerve endings. Comparing it to a piece of skin on your hand is intellectually dishonest. It is absolutely an amputation of a perfectly healthy and functional structure, and claims otherwise are objectively wrong. The science on this is settled.

[–]Invaala -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

i agree but its not really amputation is it?

[+]GitGudScrubzzz1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it is.

"Amputation is the surgical removal of all or part of a limb or extremity"

It is amputation by definition. Objectively.

[–]vodoko1 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

But see what’s the point of having foreskin, I just don’t see by we need it (I mean my dad had me circumcised when I was born so I really can’t say I don’t agree with it).

[+]dummuru2 points 6 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

You'll make a great mother

[–]vodoko1 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I’ve been circumcised, I honestly don’t see why it’s wrong, like why is there an issue with it, like I understand your the parent, your child, but I’m just so confused on why it’s so bad to have no foreskin, so if someone could explain because I’m very confused.

[–]GuruDev1000 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just because you don't face any issues, doesn't mean there aren't any issues. And moreover, it isn't like your wisdom tooth that it's totally useless. The foreskin keeps your glans protected through the daily wear and tear and thus sensitive enough for sexual activity. Of course, circumcised men will have sensitive glans, but imagine how much more sensitive an uncircumcised one is.

There are other arguments too, but the main thing is, why go through the process of mutilation in the first place when there's no scientific advantage to it?

[–]DarthEquus 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I would recommend watching this presentation, Sex and Circumcision: an American Love Story, by Eric Clopper. It should at least provide you with some laughs: https://youtu.be/FCuy163srRc

[–]AgentSears 24 points25 points26 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Right on sister!

[–]timeslider 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Right on mother!

[–]CLxJames 13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Back in November, the wife and I were asked by multiple nurses and doctors leading up to the birth of our son whether or not we were having him circumcised.

We essentially said each time no, and that he can make the decision for himself eventually

They all loved that answer

[–]NecroGem 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's what my mom did. She said that's a choice for me to make and I'm so glad she did that. You're already doing something right so good job and good luck with being a parent.

[–]slutslyainstud 84 points85 points86 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

They swear we are stupid. Men need to stop enabling this barbarism.

[–]RockmanXX 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Most Circumcised men are very insecure about this issue, they don't want to oppose something that was done on them because that would imply that something wrong was done to them by their parents.

[–]ThereAreThings 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure that men who have been subjected to genital mutilation are necessarily insecure about their status but it's not helpful tell anyone that they are somehow defective.

I am intact and am hellbent on eliminating this barbaric procedure but I don't think it's right to denigrate men who have been subjected to the same. Every man is entitled to his own feelings on his body and I think we must respect that and refrain from making bold claims about men based on their genital status.

That being said, it is an unfortunate reality that many infant males are subjected to this procedure simply because the men in their family were subjected to the same.

Our goal should not be shaming men who have been subjected to this procedure but fighting to end it for future generations.

[–]lordmadone 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

This is the most inane bit of prejudiced shit. My gosh, "intactivists" really have no idea about what circumcised men are secure or insecure about. Stop projecting.

[–]andson-r 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

He said "most". You have statistical proof to say otherwise?

[–]tdeleon21 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There’s no statistical proof presented to prove the original statement true either. You should probably cite some proof when making such a generalizing statement...

[–]lordmadone 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

He made the prejudiced statement so he should be furnishing proof and if you had objectivity, you'd ask them.

[–]RockmanXX 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

he should be furnishing proof

This entire thread is proof enough, every other cut guy is trying to rationalize&justify MGM. It also doesn't take a genius to figure out that dudes are extremely defensive about their penis and would never admit to Genital Mutilation that easily.

[–]lordmadone 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

So what you are saying is, you have no proof. Gotcha.

[–]RockmanXX -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I like how you refuse to argue in good faith, trademark disingenuity of Pro-Cutters.

[–]lordmadone 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You are making an outlandish and unprovable claim. So I ask for actual proof and you defer to the responses in this thread as "proof". I see a lot of insecurity around, don't be bigoted and assign it to those who you dislike.

[–]RockmanXX 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

My Claim: Circumcised men are insecure about the topic and don't want to oppose something that was done on them as babies

This Thread:Circumcised men being overly defensive about the procedure being done to them as babies and defending the practice

"Outlandish" my BALLS!! If you guys weren't insecure you guys wouldn't swarm every intactvist thread with self-validating bullshit that is irrelevant to the intactvism which is about the violation of the bodily integrity of babies.

[–]sdraz 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If someone paid me $1,000,000 to completely restore my foreskin, I’d do it and just use the money to get cut again. I have never had a desire to have one, granted it’s in the minority in the United States. Yep, my dick was cut and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Proud cut cock!

[–]Retr0G72 49 points50 points51 points 6 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

What's the difference to us being circumcised vs uncircumcised? I've never really studied up on this like at ALL.

[–]DarthEquus 35 points36 points37 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The foreskin has several unique physiological functions. The foreskin represents at least a third of the penile skin. It protects the glans from abrasion and contact with clothes as well as protecting it from desensitization and drying. It also increases sexual pleasure by sliding up and down on the shaft, stimulating the glans by alternately covering and exposing it. Not to mention that it is highly erogenous tissue in and of itself.

[–]Mrskirksey 51 points52 points53 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Check out some of these sites. They have really opened my eyes about it https://www.yourwholebaby.org https://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org

[–]Greg_W_Allan 63 points64 points65 points 6 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

There's several million years worth of evolution gone into making human genitals symbiotic. Nature generally doesn't get it wrong. If the foreskin were unsafe or unhealthy it either wouldn't exist or WE wouldn't.

[–]tralfamadelorean31 20 points21 points22 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

What about the appendix?

[–]Wyatt2065 35 points36 points37 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The appendix actually had a use! It is a greenhouse for the healthy bacteria in our GI tract that help us digest foods our enzymes are unable to digest. It is actually a very important organ because without it, we would be very malnourished!

[–]reddifiningkarma 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Present tense not past. If you get serious diarrhea you risk being colonized by other bacteria, the appendix pocket is a safe conservation zone ... Medical knowledge didn't realize we have more bacteria than cells until recently.

[–]MishMiassh 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It's being deprecated, just give it time.
It was useful, not anymore, it's on the way out.

[–]heebs4change 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

How was it useful?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well said.

[–]supamario132 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is going to sound rude, I really don't mean to offend but I want to address this response I see so often on circumcision:

Nature generally doesn't get it wrong

If certain goat species don't fight often enough, their horns will pierce through their skulls. Honey bees die when they use their only defensive attribute. Narwhal horns are teeth that pierce through the roof of their mouth to form a horn. All painful, all preventable.

I won't even start to mention the hundreds of traits humans have that are strictly drawbacks.

My whole point is: Listen to and promote the science saying circumcision is not beneficial because this idea that "nature doesn't get it wrong" is as effective at convincing people as saying circumcision's right cause it's in the bible. It's pure mysticism and not everyone shares that same religious awe of nature.

Evolution doesn't care about your health or well-being. It will gladly produce creatures that suffer their entire lives so long as they reproduce. Nature gets it wrong all the time (from our perspective). That's why we train medical researchers, preach their discoveries instead

[–]DizzyDeezler 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

That's not how evolution works. Evolution creates many useless and detrimental attributes to all life. Vestigial organs? Why havent animals "learned" to evolve away cancer and disease?

[–]rubixd 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Some have evolved away cancer — elephants for example almost never get it.

But I still agree with you.

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Dr. Guest discusses through examples of the ape family how the trend of heavily innervated foreskin is a sign of evolutionary advancement from the lower primate species. It contributes to pair bonding, evolutionarily important for the male to stay and care for offspring.

[–]DizzyDeezler 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Cool. I didnt say that it wasn't beneficial. I'm saying that assuming evolution only makes perfect things is ignorant. Evolution doesnt work that way.

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I know, I thought you would just be interested in the evolution specific to foreskin/circumcision.

[–]DizzyDeezler 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It was an interesting read actually. Thanks!

[–]HeWhoFrownsLikeALord 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nature gets plenty of things wrong. What books were you reading? Nature isn't designed to make us. Genetic mutations are random without intelligent design and there are plenty of things we could do without but we have them and look at that, we still exist! Maybe everyone should let their impacted wisdom teeth grow all the way out and let it crack their skull because nature is never wrong

[–]suckmyslab 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, our spines are just PERFECT for walking upright! Thanks evolution.

[–]Throwaway_Old_Guy 21 points22 points23 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Real answer? Money!

The Doctor gets paid if they do it...

The Hospital gets paid if they sell it...

The cosmetic industry uses it to create products marketed to make the users appear to have younger-looking skin.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Surely that last point is bullshit?

[–]Throwaway_Old_Guy 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nope!

[+]igwsttrrwhtmm1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

As a person with phimosis i kinda wish i was circumcised at birth.

[+]Mackowatosc1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

But...you do realise that phimosis is only rarely a case for circumcision, right? Many cases are resolvable w/o surgical intervention.

[–]Throwaway_Old_Guy 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a treatable condition.

I had it, and the Urologist made no mention of any other treatment besides circumcision.

[–]AbysmalDescent 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Disregarding the fact that this would be a rare medical condition or deformity, and therefore wouldn't justify the general practice of circumcision, what you would need in this case is corrective surgery, not circumcision. If you have too much skin, then the goal of a corrective surgery should be to bring you back to a normal foreskin length, not to remove the foreskin entirely. And, even if this is something you wanted, it would be a surgery that you would willingly consent to and opt into, rather than something that would have been forced on you.

[–]Couple2423 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Did your dad ever show you to stretch your foreskin back when you were young? I think dads need to do more of this.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why the hell are we still even debating this, when female circumcision has been outlawed everywhere, except for the shittiest countries in the world?

[–]AgentSears 42 points43 points44 points 6 years ago (40 children) | Copy Link

The thought alone of having my bare helmet rubbing against my underwear all day is just pure torture, why would you wanna do that to a person how they can say it doesnt desensitize is beyond me?

[–]Invaala 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

you literally don't feel it at all, and that's from someone who was circumcised from birth

[–]AgentSears 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

well lets put it this way if I was to pull my foreskin back and let it rattle around down there it would be very uncomfortable as it so sensitive....however yours is not sensitive its fine....which further reinforces that your glans is desensitized.

[+]GitGudScrubzzz1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

Really? Because I run, and suffered genital mutilation at birth. It's incredibly uncomfortable, and always has been, to feel my unprotected penis chafing and scarring against fabric.

[–]sdraz -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

That sucks dude. Were you botched? I’ve never even heard this from marathon runners.

[+]GitGudScrubzzz3 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Any circumcision is a botched circumcision outside of medical necessity. Of course you've never heard people talk about it, most guys are too embarassed and ashamed to admit their penis is causing them pain or discomfort, especially when the pro-circ crowd is so rabidly idiotic.

[–]MediumCheese3 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Might seem a bit radical but, as owner and operator, I think I should be the one to decide if my dick hurts.

[+]GitGudScrubzzz0 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Cool story bro, I didn't claim anything to the contrary despite what your obvious lack of reading comprehension causes you to believe.

[–]MediumCheese3 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Woah all I’m saying is if you wanna be mad at someone, be mad at the society that promotes this procedure. You’re making it sound like my lack of self-loathing over the whole thing is because I’m being dishonest with myself. I can assure you I’m not, it’s just I’ve been able to lead a perfectly happy, healthy life without my foreskin.

[–]Invaala -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

everyone i know doesn't feel anything, your penis might just be a lot more sensitive than others. Although the foreskin you cut off is very very sensitive, so even having foreskin PROBABLY wouldn't help you. Idk tho im not a doctor

[–]18Apollo18 13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's just proof that circumsison desensitizes your penis you can't even feel it

[–]Invaala 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

no, i can feel my penis very well. Its just that it isn't THAT sensitive to the point where it gets uncomfortable. Either way your penis is either pointed up or down in your underwear so most of your tips doesn't even get touched

[–]GrimmPsycho655 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Thank you! Same here, right from birth. I don’t like foreskin, I don’t get what people are being so bitchy about.

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

right from birth.

I don’t like foreskin

SOUR GRAPES

[–]GrimmPsycho655 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

By “don’t like foreskin” I mean the look of it, I’m not really attracted to guys with it. Nothin’ wrong with it, just saying I hate being shamed for being cut (which is what you’re doing), I’m perfectly fine that way.

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

So you saying that you don't like foreskin isn't shaming uncut guys? Nice logic there.

I’m perfectly fine that way.

If you truly were, you wouldn't need to say it over&over and get super defensive about people "bitching" about it.

[–]GrimmPsycho655 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I’m not shaming anyone, I stated there is nothing wrong with it, yet people continue to “pity” me as if I’m disabled, but I’m not, I function perfectly, and therefore NO dick should be judged, as all are fine.

Also, I have every damn right to be defensive, I have seen multiple posts on this sub telling me I shouldn’t be happy with my cut dick, that I should feel like some sort of freak, but I’m fine, and I wish people could accept that and not treat me like I’m somehow lower. So yeah, if I get a bit hypocritical, I’m sorry, it’s only because I keep hearing it from everyone else.

[–]RockmanXX 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Any kind of unnecessary surgical procedures are mutilations. We just want to stop this from being done on babies, can we please focus on babies and how it affects them and not about whether you like uncut dicks or not?

This whole thread is going nowhere, one side just keep talking about how they're fine as adults and the other side talks about some nerve loss. Both sides have already made up their minds and its POINTLESS to argue.

I don't identify with either side. Its simply immoral to force cosmetic surgeries on babies and the Sub should stand clear on that instead of talking about meaningless crap like sensitivity and supposed prevention of STDs.

[–]GrimmPsycho655 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok, that, I can agree with.

All I want is for people to stop acting like I’m “hideous” or “weaker” for being cut. I don’t care about the pros and cons, I just want freedom of choice (and non-judgement).

So yeah, babies should not be mutilated, but being cut is not wrong. That’s all I’m looking for.

Edit: Have a upvote

[+]thegrandwizard1 -10 points-9 points-8 points 6 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

2 weeks dude, by he time the stitches heal you feel nothing, and it is no detriment to sex whatsoever. totally worth it for how clean it stays.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

It is detrimental to sex, foreskin can literally prevent friction.

And no, assuming you wash regularly and clean your dick it’s not worth it for how clean it stays.

[–]thegrandwizard1 -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Sorry but that's not true. It's been 5 years and I would have noticed that by now I think haha. Honestly I was shitting myself but there was nothing to worry about.

[–]Peter_Principle_ 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Your evidence is anecdotal. There are problems with anecdotal evidence.

There are many possibilities here. You may be rare among foreskin amputees and more resistant to negative effects. You may have gotten lucky in how your procedure was performed (a "loose" circumcision, e.g.). Five years may not be enough time to see negative effects. You could minimizing negative outcomes. Or, you could simply be lying.

[–]thegrandwizard1 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Or you could simply be trying to push an agenda which doesn't exist because you don't agree with it. Trying to say the procedure is dangerous in any way is no different to anti Vax BS. Your denying people a very useful procedure because of rare issues when countless millions have had this done.

[–]Peter_Principle_ 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, the citing of anecdotal evidence is pretty widely understood and agreed upon to be a logical fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Well you wouldn’t, you can’t exactly compare it to with skin lol.

But regardless of it’s impact it’s still genital mutilation

[–]thegrandwizard1 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

well yes of course I can, I was 34 when I had it done and I can assure you it has been tested thoroughly before and after. My wife say it's a no brainer, as my whole downstairs smells much better, even on a hot day and there is no risk of swelling from repeated use.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Fair enough, it’s different for everyone.

Just to say as well though, no one is saying having to get it done out of medical necessity is wrong, but forcing it on a child who doesn’t have a say in what happens to their body is partly what’s so fked about it.

[–]thegrandwizard1 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely, it should be an adults choice only. I can't speak for a young kid but as an adult it's no problem, that's all I'm trying to say because so many on here are saying its the end of the world.

[+]elnormous1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

Have you tried sex before and after?

[–]thegrandwizard1 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Yes, 18 years worth before and 5 after. Not only is hygiene much easier, I never need to worry about foreskin swelling anymore so I can go more often.

[+]elnormous1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Was hygiene in issue for you before? I wash my dick in the shower like the rest of my body, never had any issues.

What made you get it done?

[–]thegrandwizard1 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Most people don't pull the skin back properly to wash out the jizz and fluff and shit that gets in there, so if you do regularly your probably fine. I got a spot down on my foreskin that kept coming back so enough was enough, I had it done and I've had no issue since.

[+]elnormous1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad the procedure went well and you're happy with the effects. You make it sound like the recovery wasn't too bad either? If that's the case, why can't we ban this procedure for children, and let them decide as adults?

[–]thegrandwizard1 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Don't get me wrong it stung for a week or so, but after that good as new. I agree unless there's a medical need it should be an adult decision only.

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

totally worth it for how clean it stays.

WTF does that even mean? You're so lazy that you can't even clean a flap of skin?

[–]50pciggy 32 points33 points34 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Now I’m in the UK where the practice isn’t popular like in the uS but every American woman I’ve talked to seems to think foreskin is gross, I think some work needs to be done there too for mutilation to end, love a man whole or not at all

[–]Greg_W_Allan 25 points26 points27 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I think some work needs to be done there too for mutilation to end, love a man whole or not at all

It has too much of a cultural stronghold in the US and generates far too much income. It isn't going away without legal intervention.

I've known women who produced less lubrication than normal who had awful experiences with cut men. Some described it as like having sex with sandpaper. Intact penises don't need artificial lubricants. It's built in.

[–]LgDietCoke 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

The foreskin creates a lube?

[–]liriodendron1 15 points16 points17 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's one of its main purposes. So by promoting Male genital mutilation your promoting uncomfortable dry sex which can harm both Male and female genitals.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Not in the same way a vagina does, but yes.

When the glans stays covered the glans and inner skin of the foreskin stays moist and smooth. Because they are not really exterior skin, they're actually a mucous membrane, more like the inside of a vagina. When they're exposed they dry out and become covered in a layer of keratin, which is basically a callus like those that develop on your hands and feet.

Also an intact penis, when it enters a vagina, basically creates a seal. The skin tube glides back and forth and all the natural lubrication of the vagina stays inside. On a circumcised penis, the shaft is immobile, and the hooked shape of the glans pulls all of that lubrication out of the vagina.

[–]another_redditor1219 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Who the hell said a foreskin was gross, that’s like saying a clit is gross!

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And that's one of the justifications they use to mutilate little girls in other parts of the globe. Of course, we can recognize this logic as twisted and barbaric. But strange that we think it only applies to one gender...

[–]Orchidbleu 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sure does.. just like vaginas. The head of the penis is meant to be an internal organ.. covered up.

[–]Greg_W_Allan 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The head of the penis is meant to be an internal organ.. covered up.

Absolutely correct. The glans or entire penis are internal organs in every mammalian species.

[–]Mrskirksey 30 points31 points32 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Here are some websites I have found helpful, to explain why people are against the procedure. I think many times we are just unaware of the myths vs truths about this issue https://www.yourwholebaby.org https://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org

[+]qwertyasdfg1234561 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

"Jen Williams founded Your Whole Baby in December of 2014. Previously, Jen taught middle school and high school English for seven years in Texas public schools. Before teaching, Jen spent several years working for an animal rights organization in their campaigns department."

Lol fucking opportunist with zero real credentials

[+]elnormous1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

You've conveniently ignored the downsides, like reduced sensitivity during sex, amongst others.

Claiming it reduces STIs is like saying chopping your hand off reduces the chance of you slamming your finger in a door. It's technically true, but at what cost?

[+]qwertyasdfg1234561 points 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

"amongst others"

Care to share what those are?

[+]KindaNotSmart1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Your example doesn’t make any sense unless the topic was completely chopping your dick off. And ‘at what cost’? Losing a little foreskin is the cost, it’s not the end of the world chill

[+]elnormous1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

If the only cost was 'losing a little foreskin', we wouldn't be having this conversation. I listed one clear, major downside in the post you're replying to. Come on, put a little effort in.

[+]KindaNotSmart1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Reduced sensitivity isn’t as big of a deal as you’re making it out to be

[–]Rano_Orcslayer 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Username checks out.

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the stats on the items listed by the Mayo clinic sheds great insight.

  • Hygiene: We have easy access to water for hygiene. It’s easy to wash body parts.

  • Lowers UTI: "It has been estimated that 111 to 125 normal infant boys (for whom the risk of UTI is 1% to 2%) would need to be circumcised at birth to prevent one UTI.". Take a minute to think about how many 111 to 125 boys are. I would need to have 118 sons (!) and circumcise all of them to prevent a single UTI. And UTI’s "can easily be treated with antibiotics without tissue loss"

  • STDs and HIV: “The number needed to [circumcise] to prevent one HIV infection varied, from 1231 in white males to 65 in black males, with an average in all males of 298.” Condoms are an actually effective transmission barriers to STIs and must be used regardless.

  • Penile Problems: "An estimated 0.8% to 1.6% of boys will require circumcision before puberty, most commonly to treat phimosis. The first-line medical treatment of phimosis involves applying a topical steroid twice a day to the foreskin, accompanied by gentle traction. This therapy ... allow[s] the foreskin to become retractable in 80% of treated cases, thus usually avoiding the need for circumcision."

  • Penile cancer: “Decreased penile cancer risk: NNT = 900 – 322,000”. That means between 900 and 322,000 circumcisions need to be performed to prevent a single case of penile cancer. It is incredibly rare. 

  • Cervical cancer is from HPV which has a vaccine. Which is so effective that (turning to news) "Australia could become first country to eradicate cervical cancer. Free vaccine program in schools leads to big drop in rates."

These stats are terrible, it's disingenuous for these to be called legitimate health benefits. And more importantly, all of these items have a different treatment or prevention method that is more effective and less invasive.

And importantly the foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis. (Full study.)

[–]Orchidbleu 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I hope I am misunderstanding you.

You really believe stripping a newborn naked, strapping them down, inducing an erection, penetrating the foreskin with a metal instrument, and clamping crushing then slicing away very sensitive tissue of the penis.. all the while the newborn is wide awake and can feel the cutting... “DOeSNT HARM THEIR BRAIN?!”

Foreskin is big money. You can buy it for $465 a slice. Click on pricing https://www.atcc.org/products/all/PCS-200-010.aspx

[–]Mrskirksey -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for your input

[+]forzion_no_mouse1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

but it's to avoid an awkward conversation with my kid. I'm willing to risk his life and limb to avoid saying, "hey wash your dick."

[–]PrekaereLage 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Some of them, maybe, but I think a lot of them are just misinformed about the damage it does.

[–]donkongmdk 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I have phimosis. Im 20. I can't stretch my penis until a certain length or it will hurt. It sucks man. What should i do? Im embarassed to tell my parents :/.

[–]insaniaeternus 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There are likely a few options similar to what Apollo mentioned below, however if you decide to get circumcised that's totally fine too since it's your choice, which is the main Crux of the intactivist cause

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There are thousands of men who are literally stretching out their remaining foreskin until it regrows into a new pseudoforeskin. If they can do that, you totally have the ability to stretch out your foreskin until it can retract easily and cure your phimosis. Don't let the doctor tell you that you need a circumcision. If you want to, thats your choice, but know that you have options that don't involved amputation.

http://www.cirp.org/library/treatment/phimosis/

[–]donkongmdk 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I tried stretching, but it hurts when it comes to a certain length.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Dorsal slit, frenuloplasty, there are other options. Your best bet might be to research alternatives and speak to a foreign trained doctor.

[–]hawksdiesel 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

End Male genetil mutilation

[+]Mister_Doctor121 points 6 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Can someone explain why circumcision is wrong? I am just uninformed on this issue. I see no problem with it, I am circumcised myself.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A few things: The foreskin contains many structures that enhance (compared to circumcision) sexual sensations, it protects the glans from premature aging and drying out, and it violates informed consent and the right to refusal.

I get that kids can't legally consent, but one day those kids will grow up into adults with this scar to remind them of what was done.

[–]DarthEquus 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I would recommend watching this presentation, Sex and Circumcision: an American Love Story, by Eric Clopper. It should at least provide you with some laughs: https://youtu.be/FCuy163srRc

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It violates body autonomy when there is no medical need. This can't be overlooked.

But more info: The foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis. (Full study.) 

For more information on the detailed anatomy and role of the foreskin, I recommend watching this presentation from Dr. Guest is he discusses the innervation of the foreskin, how the most sensitive part of the penis is removed during circumcision, and the mechanical function of the foreskin. He also goes on to medical aspects. 

[–]the_crx 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Only a very small number of men have ever been outside the Earth's atmosphere. This is not a very compelling argument.

[–]pcbfbas 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I understand it should be a person's decision to get this done, but I always felt kinda glad i had it done to me despite not understanding what it was like with foreskin.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's a very contradicting statement. I always found it odd how many men in (presumably) America have this natural dislike of foreskin versus other men around the globe.

[–]pcbfbas 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, I've read many comments of people that say they wish it never happened to them, and I never felt that. I didn't mean to make it contradictory, I'm just not the best at wording things.

[–]gousaarmy 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I like being circumcised but okay

[–]Phantom_Pizza15 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You’d like having a foreskin more.. but okay

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I literally never understood how cutting up boys penis is seen as fine by society meanwhile cutting up a girls vagina is some awful thing that shouldn’t happen under any circumstance. It can be horrific for both, there’s an extreme and mild version of both procedures but society only shows the extreme of FGM and the mild of MGM. Both are done for the exact same religious reason, both have the same health benefits and risks, etc.

[–]AbysmalDescent 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The fact that infant male mutilation has been so casually accepted fully demonstrates the principle that ethics within societies can be completely subjective. Male circumcision is a major failure in ethics and justice, and it's disgusting that any contemporary society could still tolerate it. It is truly indicative of how little regard people have towards men, male anatomy and male autonomy.

[–]18Apollo18 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Circumsison removes 3 erogenous zones, 22,000 nerve endings, and 1/2 of penile skin. It's by no means mild and way more severe than FGM type 1 and FGM type 4

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If anyone curious about foreskin regeneration please Google Foregen and learn more about it.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

why do they do circumcision on kids?

[–]corpuscaIIosum 23 points24 points25 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Short answer. A man named doctor Kellogg decided masturbating was the reason for all sickness so started secularized circumcisions as a means of curtailing it in young men. (He also applied acid to vaginas but that didn't catch on)

From then on it just got folded into tradition we haven't broken away from.

[–]thegrandwizard1 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

that was dumb, I can whack of far more often now that I've had it done!

[–]liriodendron1 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because the media tells us circumcised penises look better so parents are willing to mutilate their sons to conform to societal norms. Funny how offended they get when you ask if they had their daughters mutilated as well.

I am glad every day that my parents are European so the thought never crossed their mind to chop me up.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because very few men would ever choose to do it to themselves. So they must prey on the weak and vulnerable.

[–]lil-sparky 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (45 children) | Copy Link

So I am a good faith member of this sub. I just want to hear your arguments. I have been cut, I was too young to remember, I haven’t really thought about it, I don’t care all that much. I’m biased from the position that I think the typical cutting experience was like mine, (not memorable, not impacting today) which I acknowledge I don’t really know for sure. If I am operating from that mindset, then there is almost nothing about it that I perceive negatively affects me and others like me today. What is the compelling reason for me to take up this cause given all that I have stated? Again, not trolling, antagonizing (mods please give me benefit of the doubt and don’t knee jerk ban me) I just want to know honest thoughts because I already support everything else in this sub, and thanks.

Edit: Worded things better.

[–]intactisnormal 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It violates body autonomy when there is no medical need. This can't be overlooked.

But more info: The foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis. (Full study.) 

For more information on the detailed anatomy and role of the foreskin, I recommend watching this presentation from Dr. Guest is he discusses the innervation of the foreskin, how the most sensitive part of the penis is removed during circumcision, and the mechanical function of the foreskin. He also goes on to medical aspects. 

[–]Greg_W_Allan 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I have been cut, I was too young to remember

Up to that point you and I are peers. Apparently mine was organised by my maternal grandmother without my parents' knowledge. Of the three males in my immediate family I'm the only one cut. Whilst I don't know the exact reasons my father DID kick the crap out of my grandfather a week after my birth.

I’m biased from the position that I think the typical cutting experience was like mine, (not memorable, not impacting today) which I acknowledge I don’t really know for sure.

If hearing bad news is uncomfortable it may be best you avoid the discussions altogether. Your curiosity may outweigh such fear however. That's up to you. A former long term partner from the 80s and 90s was responsible for my initial impulse to learn about it. She was furious about what had been done to me by an over-eager cutter and was the first "intactivist" I ever knew. I don't like it at all, but it is what is is. Maybe(?) I can prevent it from happening to others but I needed to learn about it first. Once the internet came along I was able to really expand on it.

I've made a couple of brief posts in this thread covering some of the impact or generalities. It IS safe for work stuff. Otherwise it's probably just best to avoid the discussions where emotions and name calling rule.

Edit...Couple of good links from other posters too.

[+]DelScipio1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

The negative side effects is that some procedures go wrong. Small boys lose their penis for ever. Imagine if you lost your penis, or had a big scare that reduced your sensitivity (can lead to impotence).

When you do a "couple" of procedures a year with a very low rate complication rate in a situation like phimosis, you maybe have a complication or two a year. When you mass mutilate the population you get 100-1000 times that.

There's no benefit of circumcision. You still have to clean your penis (if you don't, do it). Is easier to masturbate with a intact penis, etc.

[–]GrimmPsycho655 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I don’t see the problem, my libido is so low I rarely masturbate, and when I do, it’s perfectly fine.

[–]counter345 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

that's fine... but understand that just because you are fine, other people might not be. so why force it on newborn babies?

[–]GrimmPsycho655 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We shouldn’t, I just also think we shouldn’t judge someone for something they chose or couldn’t help receiving.

[–]DarthEquus 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If I may, I would recommend watching these presentations:

This presentation from Dr. Guest goes over the medical aspects very well: He covers the anatomy of the foreskin, the sensations, the medical aspects and statistics, the evolutionary aspects, cultural bias, medical ethics, and more: https://youtu.be/XwZiQyFaAs0?t=28m20

This presentation, Circumcision The Elephant in the Hospital, from Research Assistant Professor Ryan McAllister, challenges the normality of circumcision from both a social and medical perspective: https://youtu.be/Ceht-3xu84I

This is the documentary American Circumcision that was released on Netflix: https://archive.org/details/CircMovie

This video is pretty simple. It's an objective overview of the prepuce (foreskin) from an anatomical and physiological standpoint: https://youtu.be/D_dzeDvx2QA

This video goes into the details regarding the supposed health benefits of circumcision: https://youtu.be/s9A6gPT55zQ

This presentation from Ethicist Brian Earp excellently covers all the ethical, social, and religious aspects: https://youtu.be/SB-2aQoTQeA

This presentation, Sex and Circumcision: an American Love Story, by Eric Clopper should at least provide you with some laughs: https://youtu.be/FCuy163srRc

Here are some actual circumcision videos. If watching something like this makes you feel uncomfortable, imagine how he must feel: https://www.yourwholebaby.org/circumcision-videos

This rabbit hole gets even crazier when you take a look at the other male genital modifications done in different cultures throughout the world. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Male_genital_modification. I'm guessing you wouldn't be too thrilled if some of these things were done to you as a baby.

[–]badass_panda 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

I know this is not a popular thing to say on this sub (or on Reddit, really), but there are so many really major men's issues to deal with, and this is just not one of them to me.

The support for (or against) circumcision is pretty weak when you have sifted through all of it ... Since it is a surgical procedure, absent a compelling reason otherwise, I guess "don't circumcise" is a better path.

That said, it isn't like female circumcision. There are things that are major problems: paternity leave, male representation in historically female dominated professions, societal inequalities that contribute to male homelessness and suicide... Circumcision just isn't on my damn list.

[–]AbysmalDescent 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

How would a systematic mutilation of baby boys not be a social issue worth addressing? It is a violation of basic rights(right to bodily autonomy, right to consent), it is barbaric, it is dangerous(lots of complications can occur from it) and it is depriving boys of a functional piece of their anatomy.

The very fact that people might consider the mutilation of male newborns as "no big deal", at a systematic level, is in of itself a major problem that needs to be addressed. If people a society decided to go around around cutting the ear-lobes of black new-borns, just because they are black, and people just responded to this with "bah, who cares, it's no big deal", this would be pretty horrible.

[–]badass_panda -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You're not disagreeing with what I'm saying, you have either misheard me or are ignoring my position in favor of one that is easier to disagree with.

The fact is, male circumcision is an issue whose victims can't speak for themselves or join a coalition. Once they can, they almost overwhelmingly do not care about having been circumcised.

You cannot easily have an effect on an issue whose victims almost exclusively don't care about it. So, can we focus on ones where they do?

I don't want to hear how bad circumcision is; it's not relevant.

[–]AbysmalDescent 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The inability for newborns and children to speak up about their abuse does not mean people should ignore the issue. Quite the opposite, actually. Your argument would be like saying it's okay to abuse animals, people with disabilities or children because they don't vocalize their suffering or still demonstrate devotion towards their guardians.

I don't want to hear how bad circumcision is; it's not relevant.

If something is bad then it needs to be addressed. Understanding why something is bad, or how it causes harm, is relevant.

[–]badass_panda -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

You're really not following.

In general, the victims aren't upset; unlike disabled people, these babies grow up to be adults with opinions about their victimhood, and they are mostly not angry The victims' families aren't upset, their children aren't upset, their society isn't upset.

It is radically more difficult to address an issue where you have to convince the victims that they are victims before you begin addressing it.

[–]AbysmalDescent 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You're really not following.

No, you are not following. The fact that people don't feel victimized by it does not mean that it isn't a crime or that it isn't an important issue. If a 12 year old is raped by an older woman, and he doesn't think he was victimized, that does not mean that no crime was committed. The fact that a lot of men grow up accepting their circumcision as the norm, or internalizing it as the norm, does not mean that it's not an issue. There are also women who justify and defend female circumcision in the same way, despite the fact that they are very clearly worst off for it. Men who have been circumcised getting defensive and violently insecure about their circumcision is part of problem, if not indicative of PTSD.

[–]RockmanXX 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

but there are so many really major men's issues to deal with, and this is just not one of them to me.

Okay, let's say that is true. You don't have ANY issues, how does that justify the pain the baby has to suffer?

it isn't like female circumcision

There are MANY types of female circumcision and all of them are banned.

[–]badass_panda -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

how does that justify the pain the baby has to suffer?

Pain is bad, I get that ... No disagreement. But at the end of the day, we have a finite capability for organization, rhetoric, and political action.

The total harm caused by this issue is very low compared to others; I'm just saying this is never going to be my hill to die on when two million men are incarcerated, when male life expectancy is decreasing, when male suicide rates far outstrip the rest of society...

To put it bluntly, a lot of men's issues are issues of life and death. This one isn't.

[+]GitGudScrubzzz1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

The total harm caused by this issue is very low compared to others

Absolute grade A bullshit. The only reason the harms are not more well known is propaganda, brainwashing, and a profit motive.

a lot of men's issues are issues of life and death. This one isn't.

Tell that to the literally hundreds of boys who die or are disfigured for life every year. Fucking unbelievable how stupid or just ignorant some of you fuckers are about this topic.

EDIT: LOL. Of course, downvote because you have no logical rebuttal. Fucking pathetic.

[–]badass_panda 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Calm down buddy ... Ostensibly we are on the same side here, and you're being a bit of a dick to me on this one.

At the end of the day we have a lot of work to do, and getting it done will require consensus across a broad group. That means picking our fights and being willing to form coalitions with people based on what we do agree on, not what we don't.

[–]RockmanXX 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

The total harm

Causing babies suffering for a week is Harm, isn't it? Beating up crying babies is not legal or morally justified so how come this is? We're talking about performing an UNNECESSARY surgery in the most sensitive part of the baby's body.

To put it bluntly, a lot of men's issues are issues of life and death

No, you just don't want this issue here because you can rationalize circumcision in your head. This sub constantly talks about issues such as Divorce and Misandry faced by men in everyday Workplaces&Academia, these are not exactly life or death issues either but we discuss them nonetheless. I don't think you would go around saying "Guys, we need to talk more about male suicides, let's not waste time talking about how much systemic discrimination Boys face in the School System".

Don't trivialize this issue, babies have the right to not get their penis ripped apart when they are born and yes this is a hill i'd rather die on.

[–]GrimmPsycho655 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you! I just got off a post on r/letsnotmeet where some person said that males are the worst and very dangerous because of testosterone. I’d rather focus on that misandry than the topic of circumcision.

[–]AbysmalDescent 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

male mutilation, and the lack of objection to systematic infant male mutilation, IS misandry.

[–]Lethn 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Have you read any of the articles detailing exactly how circumcision causes brain damage to the infant and psychological trauma?

[–]sdraz 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Physical brain damage or mental brain damage? If it’s physical brain damage they might just have been dropped and forgotten about it. Please send source for “brain damage”.

[–]Lethn 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/moral-landscapes/201501/circumcision-s-psychological-damage

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/immerman2/

The relevant and spare literature which deals with the (human) prepuce tends to refer (tacitly) to the human foreskin as a mere flap of skin. Anatomically, however, this description is not accurate. The intact human foreskin is richly innervated and contains holocrine glands (e.g., Tyson's glands) (see Sommerova, 1976; Halata and Munger, 1986; and Dail and Evan, 1974 for reviews of the development of sensory nerve endings in the human penis). In terms of surface area, the human foreskin represents approximately 36 percent—more than a third—of the intact penis (Ritter, 1992). As a facet of the man's reproductive apparatus, the foreskin seems to be nontrivial.

Given that "pleasure," "feeling," and "sensation" are all localized within the brain, if circumcision were to affect the neural organization of the brain, then subsequent sexual reactions would also be affected. Studies on the triangulation of the foreskin and the central nervous system and circumcision have yet to be conducted or, at least, are not easily findable. Nonetheless, inferential evidence is available.

[–]RockmanXX 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What is the compelling reason for me to take up this cause

Babies should not be strapped into a table and have their genitals cut up, why the is it so hard for guys to feel sympathy for babies? why do you have to make it about yourself? The babies don't need to be put through so much pain, that's pretty much it.

[–]LgDietCoke 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Your wording is good

They never respond, just some downvotes lol. Like you, I’m cut and never felt any lingering side effects or mental damage from the procedure.

They usually just say it’s a barbaric procedure and ask how it feels to just be used for my money over a senseless OP.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Who doesn’t respond?? There’s people detailing why all over this thread and there usually is when it comes up.

[–]LgDietCoke 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He had downvotes without any replies. Probably wouldn’t have got any without the scrutiny

[–]Calactic 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

They never respond

Currently the guy has 5 replies and hasn't responded to a single one, ironic.

[–]LgDietCoke 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Ironic, he had downvotes with no replies. As soon as I point that out, the herd trampled in

[–]Calactic 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

no replies

There were 3 posts before yours though? Sort by old

[–]LgDietCoke 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Does it show to the minute?(that’s a honest question) I didn’t see any replies when I started my comment.

[–]Calactic 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you hover your mouse over the '1 day ago' it should show you the time of posting. Perhaps you opened the thread earlier and left it a while before posting.

[–]LgDietCoke 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

More than likely. I do it often

[+]qwertyasdfg1234561 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Notice how all the replies are anecdotal, or they say "it's just wrong", or they say "go read about it, it really opened my eyes." The evidence that's out there is not much better, all of the sites I've read remind me of PETA.

If you want another anecdote, my grandfather told me that in his old age, he was incapable of cleaning his own penis in the shower. He needed assistance. He said be glad you're circumcised, so you don't have to deal with all the gunk that grows underneath and all of the complications from not being able to easily clean.

[+]WalkedWithAZombie1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah the “gunk” really isn’t a problem until you’re that age. Cleaning your dick and showering regularly isn’t difficult dude.

[+]qwertyasdfg1234561 points 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

jUsT sHoWeR bEtTeR lOl

[–]Neveah_Hope_Dreams 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hahahaha! Nice top!

Circumcision on baby's and children is just freaking stupid and cruel.

[–]thegrandwizard1 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

on kids? definitely, it should never be forced, and I was always horrified by the idea when growing up, but I tell you from experience, after having an small issue as an adult I had it removed and I am far far happier now.

[–]18Apollo18 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Since you said a small issue then I highly doubtful it was serious enough to require amputation of half of penile tissue

[–]sdraz -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol my dick ain’t that small homie. Who the fuck has a foreskin that makes up 1/2 their dick?

[–]18Apollo18 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The mean length of prepuce in this sample was 6.4 cm (range 4.8-9.2) and covered 93% of the mean penile shaft (6.9 cm). Ten prepuces were as long as or longer than the shaft of the penis to which they belonged; three of them were > 10% longer than the shaft and glans combined. 51% of the length of the mean adult penile shaft, or more from nearly half the penises. CONCLUSION: CIRCUMCISION REMOVES MORE THAN HALF OF TOTAL PENILE SKIN

[–]thegrandwizard1 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Amputation of half the penile tissue? maybe you should look up what a circumcision actually is before commenting. What would be a small issue anywhere else on your body is reality a big issue when its on the end of your foreskin and interferes with your sex life.

[–]18Apollo18 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Amputation of half the penile tissue? maybe you should look up what a circumcision actually is before commenting

I know exactly what circumcision is and all the negative side effects it causes

The mean length of prepuce in this sample was 6.4 cm (range 4.8-9.2) and covered 93% of the mean penile shaft (6.9 cm). Ten prepuces were as long as or longer than the shaft of the penis to which they belonged; three of them were > 10% longer than the shaft and glans combined. 51% of the length of the mean adult penile shaft, or more from nearly half the penises. CONCLUSION: CIRCUMCISION REMOVES MORE THAN HALF OF TOTAL PENILE SKIN

Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.

Circumcision was associated with frequent orgasm difficulties in Danish men and with a range of frequent sexual difficulties in their female partners, notably orgasm difficulties, dyspareunia and a sense of incomplete sexual needs fulfilment.

The analysis sample consisted of 1059 uncircumcised and 310 circumcised men. For the glans penis, circumcised men reported decreased sexual pleasure and lower orgasm intensity. They also stated more effort was required to achieve orgasm, and a higher percentage of them experienced unusual sensations (burning, prickling, itching, or tingling and numbness of the glans penis).For the penile shaft a higher percentage of circumcised men described discomfort and pain, numbness and unusual sensations.In comparison to men circumcised before puberty, men circumcised during adolescence or later indicated less sexual pleasure at the glans penis, and a higher percentage of them reported discomfort or pain and unusual sensations at the penile shaft.

Cut vs Intact sensitivity chart(NSFW)

Circumcision removes the natural protection against meatal stenosis and, possibly, other USDs as well.

In meatal stenosis the meatus, or opening at the tip of the penis, becomes narrower.  Meatal stenosis is almost exclusively found in males who have been circumcised.  Symptoms include the following: Pain or burning while urinating, Sudden urges to urinate, Having to urinate often, A small, narrow, very fast urinary stream, A urinary flow that sprays (usually upward) or is difficult to aim, Trouble with fully emptying the bladder, A drop of blood at the tip of the penis after urinating

[–]thegrandwizard1 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Damn, you are going to some seriously desperate measures to prove our point. Sorry to burst your bubble but this is clearly working to an agenda. I could go and find plenty of 'studies' that say that vaccines are bad for you, or weed has no medicinal properties but that wouldn't be true either. ITs just facebook BS gone crazy as usual.

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I could go and find plenty of 'studies' that say that vaccines are bad for you, or weed has no medicinal properties but that wouldn't be true either. ITs just facebook BS gone crazy as usual.

Find me a study that proves my studies wrong then. There aren't any. The only ones I know of have major flaws in the methodology

Ts just facebook BS gone crazy as usual.

Scientific studies from the nation center of biotechnological information? Yeah that's totally Facebook BS

[–]18Apollo18 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

What would be a small issue anywhere else on your body is reality a big issue when its on the end of your foreskin and interferes with your sex life.

If you're talking about Phimosis then treatments include stretching, steriod creams or a preputioplasty. It's never necessary to amputate any penile tissue

[–]thegrandwizard1 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

of course yes, I only went to one of the most revered teaching hospitals in the country, what would they know?

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

US doctors don't know shit about natural male anatomy. Most of them don't even have have idea what the ridged band is

[–]thegrandwizard1 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Good job I'm British then. you must understand by now that US doctors have agendas? that's why half your country is on Heroin.

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Good job I'm British then.

I mean this is basic information on the NHS.

Phimosis isn't usually a problem unless it causes symptoms such as redness, soreness or swelling.

If your glans is sore and inflamed, you may have balanitis (inflammation of the head of the penis). There may also be a thick discharge underneath the foreskin. If both the glans and foreskin are inflamed, it's known as balanoposthitis.

Most cases of balanitis can be easily managed using a combination of good hygiene, creams or ointments, and avoiding substances that irritate the penis. Read more about treating balanitis. Balanoposthitis can also sometimes be treated by following simple hygiene measures, such as keeping the penis clean by regularly washing it with water and a mild soap or moisturiser. If balanoposthitis is caused by a fungal or bacterial infection, an antifungal cream or a course of antibiotics may be needed.

Topical steroids (a cream, gel or ointment that contains corticosteroids) are often prescribed to treat a tight foreskin. They can help soften the skin of the foreskin, making it easier to retract.

Circumcision (surgically removing part or all of the foreskin) may be considered if other treatments have failed, but it carries risks such as bleeding and infection. This means it's usually only recommended as a last resort, although it can sometimes be the best treatment option

Alternatively, surgery to release the adhesions (areas where the foreskin is stuck to the glans) may be possible. This will preserve the foreskin but may not always prevent the problem recurring.

Source: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/phimosis/

[–]ThrwAwyByTheDozen 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So you decided to post cringe...

[–]Killrog8 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I feel it’s easier to keep clean when it’s cut. Why wife doesn’t mind it either, but that’s our opinion I guess.

[–]Carmelboxer59 13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

“easier to keep clean” dude just shower everyday and the cleanliness is the same as a circumcised penis. Im sorry but the easier to clean and more hygienic argument is so stupid. Wash your dick everyday people with foreskin and you’ll be fine

[–]Killrog8 -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

What’s wrong with being cut? Why is it so wrong? It shouldn’t matter, a dick is a dick right?

[–]Carmelboxer59 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

What’s wrong woth being uncut? Why is or weong? It shouldn’t matter, a dick is a dick right?

[–]Killrog8 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Nothing is wrong with being uncut, a dick is a dick is a dick.

[–]Carmelboxer59 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nothing is wrong with being cut, a dick is a dick is a dick. I just don’t argue that mutilating a dick under the grounds of “easier hygiene” is practical at all. Pull back the foreskin and wash your cock. it’s the same cleanliness as a cut dick.

[–]Killrog8 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I always imagined that uncut wieners are like introverts in really baggy turtlenecks, just taking in the morning while it has two hands clasped on a warm cup of tea.

[–]Tiiimmmbooo[🍰] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you trouble washing behind your ears too? It's not difficult to clean...

[–]DeathArrow007 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

If you stare at that picture long enough, your penis gets easier to clean.

[–]liriodendron1 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Giving it a quick stroke in the shower seems pretty easy to me. I'm just glad the tip is still sensitive and doesn't have to rub on denim all day long.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Lmao why are you getting downvoted?

[–]DeathArrow007 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The downvote are coming from guys that don't know what to do when their dick gets hard. That's why.

[–]I_Hate_Snowflakes 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Question: Can I go back to the hospital I was circumcised at when I was a baby and sue? I wonder.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You can, and people have, but the statute of limitations only gives you a small window.

[–]I_Hate_Snowflakes 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea, I read that it was 6 months to a year.

I wonder if that can be changed if we just tried to sue today anyways.

[–]another_redditor1219 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Where can I get this shirt? My boyfriend was circumcised and I can see how it affects him

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Unpopular, but I feel like it would be weird if I was uncircumcised. Kind of thankful I don’t have to clean under any flaps or whatever is involved in cleaning the in-cut nether region. And wouldn’t you be less sensitive in the bed?

I get that people should be able to choose whether they want circumcised, but by the time they’re old enough to decide, wouldn’t it be much harder and painful to cut than when they’re born? At least that’s what I learned from Carl on Shameless lol.

This whole predicament sucks, pun absolutely intended.

Edit: I am totally willing to change my mind. I’m just curious of the reasoning here, outside of the fact that you’re literally cutting baby dicks.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You're making a lot of assumptions.

Do "flaps" really annoy you that much that you need to get rid of them? What other body flaps and crevices are you going to willingly amputate so you don't have to worry about cleaning them?

Why would you be less sensitive with more penis and sensory nerves?

And why would you think it's "harder and more painful" when you're older? An adult can get fully anesthetized when he's cut, a baby cannot. Anesthesia wasn't even used on babies at all during circumcision up until a few years ago. Would you accept that as a man? An adult also has the foreskin separated from the head of the penis. On a baby it's fused together and must be torn apart, in much the same way as you would rip someone's fingernail off.

Why would you think this is a predicament at all? For 99% of men across the world its never an issue at all.

I'm not telling you that you should be bothered by it. You are completely entitled to your feelings about your body. But consider these reasons above for why some men do consider it to be a major issue.

[–]AbysmalDescent 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Kind of thankful I don’t have to clean under any flaps

You don't "clean under the flaps", the skin retracts naturally as you pull back(same motion you would naturally do while cleaning or masturbating) or as you get erect. I understand that you may not have one but you should at least understand the basics before entering this conversation.

And wouldn’t you be less sensitive in the bed?

How could you it possibly make you be less sensitive? Circumcision removes nerve endings and natural skin, which are what create sensation. After circumcision, you effectively have less skin surface to feel things with, and the surface you do have is scarred and inherently less sensitive. You are also removing a natural protection for the glands, which keeps it hydrated and protected. After circumcision, the glans is hardened and callouses, which also removes sensitivity.

wouldn’t it be much harder and painful to cut than when they’re born

As an adult, you would have access to various forms of anesthetics and pain medication, which wouldn't be accessible to children(a lot of practices will not even use anesthetics, disregarding a baby's pain because "he won't remember it"). It's also a pain that you could take on willingly, and because you want it, not because it was forced on you. It wouldn't be any worse than any other willing cosmetic surgery(which adults have all the time).

This whole predicament sucks, pun absolutely intended.

What pun? There's no sucking involved with circumcision.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

TIL. And... sorry for not researching more on uncircumcised penises? Not the kind of thing I spend a whole lot of time on.

-My question of sensitivity came from my assumption that there would be less... Friction. Wouldn't all the loose skin make it feel like a jacket around your dick?

-I get the voluntary pain part, but is is harder to do since your dick has grown 6 inches longer since you were born?

And as for the pun, no shit it's not circumcision related. It's a dick joke.

[–]DarthEquus 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I would recommend watching this presentation, Sex and Circumcision: an American Love Story, by Eric Clopper. It should at least provide you with some laughs: https://youtu.be/FCuy163srRc

[–]Mar_Ci -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

My kid has phimosis and it's possible that his foreskin has to be cut to prevent infections (too soon to tell). Please stop suggesting that being circumstised is a disability because it's not.

[–]18Apollo18 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

The foreskin and the glans are fused together until puberty. There's no reason to circumcise a child ever.

Circumsison isn't even a treatment for Phimosis in teens over 16. Treatments include stretching, steriod creams, and a preputioplasty. There's no reason amputate 1/2 of penile tissue

[–]Mar_Ci -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I'll stick to the doc's opinion but thanks.

[–]18Apollo18 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

According to this study

Only 18% of clinical practitioners make prescribe treatments based on scientific evidence. Most is based on "expert opinion"

https://ebm.bmj.com/content/22/3/88

Which expert opinion doesn't really mean shit. If for some reason all of your patients that smoked just out of sheer luck didn't happen to get cancer then you could say in your professional and expert opinion smoking doesn't cause cancer and might even help you live longer. This is why we need to use actually scientific evidence. Because when we have hundreds of studies done on hundreds of people showing that smoking severely decreases your life expectancy and increase your risk of cancer then it's pretty convincing. But just a few random people isn't very accurate.

[–]Mar_Ci -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's anti-vaxer logic and I'll have none of it. Even the shittyest doctor's expert opinion beats what Karen read on Infowars while sitting on the toilet.

[–]18Apollo18 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's anti-vaxer logic and I'll have none of it.

Antivaxers don't use actually scientific evidence. However if they could provide Meta-analyses comparing hundreds of studies done on hundreds of people then I'd believe them. I'm not gonna believe everything a doctor says just because they have the word Dr. in front of their name.

Even the shittyest doctor's expert opinion

Means absolutely nothing. Going to Med school and understanding how the body works sure it makes you more qualified to make a hypothesis of what would happen but it doesn't mean anything until it's scientifically proven

beats what Karen read on Infowars while sitting on the toilet.

That's not scientific evidence in a medical journal. It's some random unproven article

[–]volabimus 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

At the age of six months, after concern was raised about how both of them urinated, the boys were diagnosed with phimosis. They were referred for circumcision at the age of seven months. On April 27, 1966, a urologist performed the operation using the unconventional method of electrocauterization, but the procedure did not go as doctors had planned, and David's penis was burned beyond surgical repair. The doctors chose not to operate on Brian, whose phimosis soon cleared without surgical intervention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

Any doctor telling you they can diagnose phimosis in an infant has no idea what they are talking about.

[–]Mar_Ci -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

So doctors have been wrong before therefore armchair research is as good as your kid's GP's advise, okay.

He's no infant by the way and I sure as hell won't wait until he gets an infection because he can't wash it properly.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They can be fused for a long time, and there are alternatives besides circumcision. An american born doctor would be the last person I'd ask for advice on a foreskin to be honest.

[–]die_in_a_sinkhole 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

wait I thought this was abt like a woman having sex w another guy and the woman asks him to clean his cum by himself--

[–]FrankSavage420 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

@ r/femaledatingstrategy “ lol uteruses be MAD 😠”.

scrotes matter, too

[–]f91w593 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I have my hood my dudes and some women find it appealing some gross but it's more what's they're used to I guess.

[–]UbiquitousWobbegong 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with the sentiment, but it's not men who have trouble. It's boys.

And, actually, some men do have trouble. Mostly if they haven't been taught properly, or have an abnormally tight foreskin, but it's still a reality.

I support getting rid of circumcision, I just don't think this t-shirt makes a good argument.

[–]imiye 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Anyone know we're I can get one if these shirts?

[–]MASTERoQUADEMAN 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not to trigger anyone but why on earth are there t shirts like this now?

[–]FleshPanda[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Where can I get this shirt

[–]RedPandaParliament 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The circumcision debate seems to always collapse into those against it just seeming to want to make sure cut guys feel as awful as possible about what was done to them. How bout this: pros and cons aside, I and any other circumcised guy has every right to be happy and content with my own body, and know too that my parents and doctor at birth most likely acted out of good intent for what they knew at the time, and what may very well be the truth of it still. Stop just trying to tear down your fellow man.

[–]Persian-Gulf 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They are only a handful of Muslim countries which are liveable but yes. Ur right

[–]Blutarg -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Haha! So true.

[–]MotherOfLogic -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Nah, I'd rather circumcise my child. It is cleaner.

[–]volabimus 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Same with my daughter.

[–]AbysmalDescent 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It isn't cleaner and, even if it was, it still wouldn't justify the practice or the human rights violation. A child should have the right to bodily integrity, and certainly shouldn't be subjected to barbaric practices because of ignorant parents pushing their misconceptions or religious dogmas onto them.

[–]Tiiimmmbooo[🍰] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

You're simply an idiot. You probably shouldn't have kids if you can't maintain their hygiene properly.

[–]Persian-Gulf -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Say that to all of Muslims, jews, Koreans, flipinos and half of Africa..

[–]Tiiimmmbooo[🍰] 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Ok, they're idiots too.

[–]Persian-Gulf -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Riiight. That’s 1/3 of the world population. Just because u disagree with it and are butt hurt. Doesn’t mean everyone is

[–]Tiiimmmbooo[🍰] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, they're idiots because cleaning your dick isn't difficult at all.

[–]Persian-Gulf -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeah and some men aren’t able to clean it properly. It looks like ant eater. I’m proud of my cut dick and had men and women giving compliments about it.

[–]sdraz 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I’ve heard girls talk about the anteater look.

[–]AbysmalDescent 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

All men are capable of cleaning themselves and, even if they were handicapped to the point of being unable to clean themselves, that still wouldn't justify cutting off lobes of skin off of them. Not just because men who can't clean themselves would be dirty no matter what but because it would be pretty inhumane to do so as well. Where do you even draw the line? Do you start cutting off limbs, or ear lobs, because handicapped men can't clean themselves?

It looks like ant eater.

That is your prejudice speaking, nothing more. It doesn't actually look like an ant-eater, though I'm not really sure how a resemblance to any other object could be viewed as something negative(this would be like saying "ew, penises look like cucumbers, gross!"). I could also just as easily state that a circumcised penis looks incredibly calloused, unnatural, scarred and inhibited.

I’m proud of my cut dick and had men and women giving compliments about it.

And you don't think men with intact penises can't be proud of their penises, or never get compliments? It's weird that you would bring this up as an actual argument. It demonstrates a great deal of insecurity and defensiveness on the subject of circumcision. You can still be proud of your penis and understand how circumcision is barbaric, unnecessary and an obvious human rights violation

[–]Persian-Gulf 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m bringing all that up because what I said in my original comment was I’m glad my parents choose to get me cut and ive been getting Downvotes because what I believe in.

[–]AbysmalDescent 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are encouraging child abuse and mutilation, you should be down-voted. The fact that you have idealized your personal experiences does not mean that it's right. It's not an actual foundation for an argument. Someone growing up deaf, and being happy with being deaf, doesn't mean that people should have their ear drums pierced at birth. Rationalizing some good out of something bad does not mean that it is actually good, does not mean that others feel the same way, and does not mean that it should be forced on others.

[–]AbysmalDescent 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't see how claiming "1/3 of the world population" somehow makes your argument for you. Even accepting the premise of "if a lot of people think something, then it must be right", which is completely false(a lot of bad ideologies can be adopted by majorities), that number still wouldn't be in your favour if 2/3's of the world population think it's wrong... or if 99.9% of men through out most of human history also thought it was wrong too.

[–]Hurricane12112 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly I wouldn’t bother arguing. This sub is toxic AF. I’m all for men’s rights and equality but a circumcised penis is very obvious the best outcome. Healthy, looks way better and is all around cleaner. They’re just mad it never happened when they were babies and are too scared now. At least that’s my best guess.

[+]reddituser4030 points 6 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

As an uncircumcised man. I really wish I was cut as a baby. Not only do I find my foreskin very unsightly, it is very uncomfortable pulling it back to wash it, when I first started having sex it was actually quite painful and even tore a few times during sex. If I forget to have a shower one day, it smells quite awful and collects dick cheese. I really hate the sight of my flaccid penis, I consider myself to be average sized but when I’m soft it i do feel embarrassed and self conscious about it. If I ever got pantsed at a party or in public I would literally die. (2” anteater lol). I could never just pull my pants down in front of someone and be ready for sex, I have to be fully showered and have at least a semi before I am willing to expose myself. I truly believe our penises are literally “confidence rods” and the way a man feels about his penis will affect his perspective of life. I also believe that a circumcised man with his penis desensitized lasts longer in bed allowing to keep blood flow for longer periods would also increase its size as well. I mean, I’m not complaining with what I got but to say I’m jealous of other larger cut guys would be an understatement. I’m now married and even though I’m comfortable with my partner, she’s told me she wishes that I was cut, and if we ever have a son she wants to have him circumcised and I 100% agree

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So go do it to yourself then, nobody is stopping you.

What we object to is forcing it on people who didn't want it.

[–]AbysmalDescent 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

it smells quite awful and collects dick cheese.

With ignorant statements like these, there is no way I could possibly believe that you have ever had an intact/natural foreskin. There is no such thing as "dick cheese". This is something completely ignorant women, or children, would think of when trying to discuss circumcision. The smell is no different than any other form of body odor either, and would most certainly still be there for circumcised men, and women, as well. The human body builds up sweat and dead skin when you don't wash it, and this is true of every single part of your body.

Not only do I find my foreskin very unsightly

This kind of sounds like bullshit. The odds of you finding your own penis "unsightly" would be very slim to nil. And, even if you did, this would just be a product of your own personal insecurities or learned prejudices.

it is very uncomfortable pulling it back to wash it

Again, sounds like bullshit. I've been cleaning my own dick my entire life, it has never been uncomfortable or painful to pull back. It pulls back naturally. If you are having issues with basic functions of your anatomy, you should see a doctor.

and even tore a few times during sex.

Again, sounds like bullshit but, if true, you were clearly doing something wrong.

I really hate the sight of my flaccid penis, I consider myself to be average sized but when I’m soft it i do feel embarrassed and self conscious about it.

That is your personal issue. I don't think having a mutilated penis, with exposed scar tissue and a discoloured calloused head, would somehow improve the aesthetics of your penis

If I ever got pantsed at a party or in public I would literally die. (2” anteater lol)

People with intact penises do not refer to their own dicks as "anteaters" in a derogatory manner. This would be like using cucumbers as a derogatory term to describe your own penis. Normal people don't do this. Not unless you have some kind of gender identity disorder or extreme body issues.

I truly believe our penises are literally “confidence rods” and the way a man feels about his penis will affect his perspective of life.

This has nothing to do with circumcision, and a lot of men with mutilated penises can be self-concious about their dicks too.

I also believe that a circumcised man with his penis desensitized lasts longer in bed allowing to keep blood flow for longer periods would also increase its size as well.

Again, this sounds like pure delusional misconceptions, or the juvenille fabrications of a circumcised men to validated their own superiority. Circumcision does not increase the size of your penis in any way, nor does it make you last longer. Trying to argue that less sensitivity is good because is makes you "last longer" also isn't just untrue(how long a guy lasts is dependent of a lot of other factors, and guys get used to their level of sensitivity) but a very twisted attempt to rationalize their circumcision.

if we ever have a son she wants to have him circumcised

Even if everything you wrote here wasn't complete bullshit, this still wouldn't justify you forcing a circumcision on a newborn. If you want to get circumcised as an adult, you still have the option to do so, but that's not something you should force on a child that does not have the capability to consent. It's his body, not yours. The fact that you may have all these insecurities about your body does not mean that he will, and it's certainly not an insecurity you should be trying to push onto your son(which is exactly what it sounds like you're doing).

[–]GlennQuagmireEsq 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Troll

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[–]PiemanAidan 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This isn’t a topic that has to do with political views. It is a religious belief to Muslims, Catholics, Jews, and several African cultures. Get your facts straight.

[–]SwordoftheRevelation 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (66 children) | Copy Link

This debate is honestly just draining.

[–]NecroHexr 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

the whole sub-reddit is draining. everytime i open a thread i feel my energy go from 80~ to 10.

[–]Lethn 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (64 children) | Copy Link

This is how they win, they want to drain you of all will so you shrink into nothing and stop being a problem for them. No, the correct response is to make even more noise and become and even bigger problem they have to contend with.

[–]Hurricane12112 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes thank you! It doesn’t require that much brain power! The earth is round, cut penis’ are healthier, and vaccines work! Stop making arguments out of nothing! It’s nice to see someone of sound mind on this ‘debate’ for once. Don’t let them win, keep fighting!

[+]SwordoftheRevelation -7 points-6 points-5 points 6 years ago (62 children) | Copy Link

I mean because I genuinely do not care either way and it's always the dumbest arguments for and against on both sides. I was circumcised. My whole damn family was circumcised. The one sibling who decided not to have her boys circumcised ended up having to pay for complications with both her boys because one had a foreskin that grew to cover his urethra (don't ask me how. I wasn't overly interested in finding out about my nephew's penis.) And the other got kicked in the penis which caused a tear in the foreskin. Needless to say, I just don't give a fuck and people should really care about lot less about kid's genitals. Whatever the hell you as a parent (particularly the male parent as you might have some idea of what the hell you're talking about.) Think is the best decision for your child go for it, but just in general arguing about something so trivial when there's problems that will actually stand a decent chance of affecting your son down the road seems ridiculous.

[–]18Apollo18 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The one sibling who decided not to have her boys circumcised ended up having to pay for complications with both her boys because one had a foreskin that grew to cover his urethra (don't ask me how. I wasn't overly interested in finding out about my nephew's penis.) And the other got kicked in the penis which caused a tear in the foreskin.

Sounds like pure bullshit to me

[–]SwordoftheRevelation 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It can sound like whatever you feel like. I am merely sharing some of the many reasons for my position on this subject as being neither pro or anti circumcision. Both have draw backs, both have benefits, for me if I were to have children which is wildly unlikely I'd likely choose circumcision simply because it's the option that worked out well for me and I'm aware of the issues that can come with it while I'm less so with uncircumcised genitals. But, you feel free to do whatever you like as a parent with your own child or champion any cause you like no matter how ridiculous I may find it.

[–]Lethn 13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (56 children) | Copy Link

The mutilation of a child's genitals is not a 'trivial' issue, seems to me it's less about the debate being 'draining' you just don't seem to give a fuck.

[–]SwordoftheRevelation -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (55 children) | Copy Link

Gotta say, my genitals don't feel very mutilated. If it's a "problem" I could live my whole life with and not feel any adverse effects it's not much of a problem.

Starting the conversation with it stretched over a shirt just doesn't really seem like the best way to represent the point either.

[–]Lethn 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (54 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for continually proving my point, also, this is a classic case of if you don't care then why are you here posting? You're contradicting yourself.

[–]SwordoftheRevelation 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (53 children) | Copy Link

Seems like a waste of time and energy to complain about something so minor instead of focusing on taking down the bigger challenges first.

[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (48 children) | Copy Link

It's not minor, you have an agenda if you're claiming that.

[–]SwordoftheRevelation 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (47 children) | Copy Link

I do have an agenda. Focus on issues that will effect men's lives rather than a cosmetic surgery with a handful of benefits and a handful of set backs which becomes safer and safer by the day and most men will go most of their lives without giving a second thought to.

[–]RockmanXX 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

cosmetic surgery

There you go, cosmetic surgery being performed on INFANTS. How fucked is that, why the fuck are so cool with cosmetic surgery on babies?

[–]Lethn 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Wow you're really digging yourself into a hole, cosmetic surgery? Really? LOL at this point all I need to do is keep you posting and trying to justify your crazy bullshit and you'll do my work for me.

[–]Cromwellity 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

And yet here you are giving it a lot more then one, funny that

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

complain about something so minor

Babies suffering is not a minor issue.

[–]SwordoftheRevelation -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, given the fact that every single nerve ending in everyone's stomachs is constantly sending the signal that it's coming into contact with acid we just shouldn't allow people to have stomachs anymore. Existence is full of pain. Your mind just blocks most of it out except for the stuff that's unusual pain or might kill you. Especially for babies. Nice cozy 99 degrees Fahrenheit squeezed through a narrow passage that can kill you if your mother doesn't push hard enough or you come out wrong, into a lovely 70 degrees for a drop of 29 degrees total pretty much instantly. Then, any time you touch your face your razor thin nails cut your skin. After that colder medical equipment to check your vitals and make sure you're not getting TOO comfortable in the room temperature challenge. Now, it's time to experience hunger for the first time. Then a bit of diaper rash, exhaustion, nightmares, probably a medical complication at some point in time during your first year and all of that still doesn't mean that you'll survive because SIDS can strike at any time in the first year. An infant's life in particular is full of pain and one more thing really doesn't matter to me. Now, I'm going to guess that up next you'll just call me an asshole and move on with your day and of course you're not wrong, but I'm also not wrong that in the grand scheme of things a centimeter of skin really doesn't matter worth a damn. On the other hand, children who feel they can't come forward about their sexual abuse because they think they're supposed to be tough or because they think they're supposed to like sexual contact because they're male and as such all sexual contact is good sexual contact seems like a bigger problem to me. Teens who act out because the world is telling them to be so many things at once and they can't make heads or tails of whether they're supposed to be super macho or super caring that seems like a decent issue to me. Young men who are terrified of having children because they saw what their mothers did to their fathers in custody battles or young men terrified of marriage because they know that means not only their body, but their mind, their soul, their funds, their reproductive rights, their freedom as a whole are all sold the moment they say I do and sign a paper which will allow a woman to take full advantage of them and upend their whole lives on a whim seems like a huge issue to me. Men being afraid of being alone with women because they know no one will believe them if she says he did something, companies being afraid to hire women because it might be a lawsuit waiting to happen and yet being forced to hire at bare minimum X number of women and market their ads to women lest they be burned on the fires of the feminist lynch mob and the government's scorn seems like an issue to me. But, enjoy your fight for the skin. I hope it's over soon so people can just stop talking about it already and focus on the things that lead men to commit suicide at 3 times the rate of women.

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Existence is full of pain

What? i thought it was the job of the parents to keep their babies AWAY from pain?

Then a bit of diaper rash

LMAO dude, did you just compare diaper rash with Surgical removal of Skin?

centimeter of skin really doesn't matter worth a damn

Don't knock it till you've tried it. /r/foreskin_restoration

On the other hand, children who feel they can't come forward about their sexual abuse because they think they're supposed to be tough or because they think they're supposed to like sexual contact because they're male and as such all sexual contact is good sexual contact seems like a bigger problem to me

No one said it wasn't a bigger problem. The way we casually treat surgically altering baby boy penis shows how we culturally view boys to just "Suck it up" even as INFANTS, it just continues throughout our life. This would never be accepted if we did this to girls.

I hope it's over soon so people can just stop talking about it already and focus on the things that lead men to commit suicide at 3 times the rate of women.

ALL ISSUES ARE LINKED, you cannot view circumcision, divorce courts,machismo etc etc from an isolated point of view. They're all part of the same insidious culture of misandry within our culture, if we change people's general outlook towards boys&men, THEN we can easily bring all the legal changes we need.

[–]CoolMintMC 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This.

[–]volabimus 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you have a complication with a foreskin you can get it done (or a less drastic option), if you have a complication with a circumcision what are you going to do? Put it back on? The complication rate is about the same and most foreskin complications are caused by mothers trying to retract the foreskin before it has separated from the glans, causing it to heal in ways like you describe. Leave it alone.

[–]SwordoftheRevelation 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The odds are minimal either way and the cost is negligible. Still, not seeing your point, but I most certainly hope that you'll have a great week.

[–]HierEncore 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Same for women. If women are able to survive tens of thousands of years of human history, they are able to survive without taking chemically castrating pills everyday or getting shots.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Where can I get this shirt?

[–]insaniaeternus 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I also wanted it and searched around, you can find it at this Etsy page

Link

[+]Persian-Gulf -14 points-13 points-12 points 6 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

I appreciate my parents for choosing to circumcised me.

[–]God_King1257 17 points18 points19 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I appreciate mine did it too. Now imagine if we didn't. We didnt get to choose, it should be the person's choice

[–]Persian-Gulf -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I would still choose to be cut if I had a choice. I like how it looks. Period. Don’t know why some men are butthurt of my original comment. I’m glad my parents did it. Period.

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You are free to circumcise yourself later in life. You really are. That's exactly what freedom of choice is about. Everyone should have that choice.

To override someone's body autonomy and choose for them requires medical necessity.

[–]Persian-Gulf 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Okay and I’m glad what I have.

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You can be glad. That's not an argument to circumcise someone else.

[–]counter345 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Okay... but surely you'd want the choice anyway? Imagine being unhappy with being cut at such a young age... And yes, there are people who get cut without a say at a young age and wished they weren't

[–]Persian-Gulf 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well I’m happy. Me. Happy. Yes I wanted that choice.

[–]counter345 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good for you. But let others have the choice.

[–]Tepa_Tassuliini 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The result is irrelevant, you were still mutilated

[–]Greg_W_Allan 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You are almost entirely reliant on coarse pain receptors for sexual sensation. These nerves can barely tell the difference between hot and cold. The fine touch receptors - sensitive to motion, stretching, temperature, pressure - you were born with for that purpose are gone by the time you are an adult.

[–]GrimmPsycho655 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I have a libido, so that doesn’t really bother me.

[–]Knee_Growss 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

Come on guys don’t downvote this guy for having an opinion. I was circumcised (Jewish) from birth and I honestly have no problem with it. I would tho like to have seen the difference between foreskin and none.

[+]thekiltedpir8 -25 points-24 points-23 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I've seen it in porn. It's nasty. I can't imagine myself being anything but circumcised. All that flabby extra skin would be gross.

[–]pacmatt27 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Some people find mutilated dicks nasty but whatever :)

[–]Hurricane12112 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Facts. Every girl I’ve been with prefers circumcised to not.

[–]18Apollo18 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And men like big tits and dislike big roast beef flaps does that mean we should get our daughters labiaplasties and boob jobs as infants???

[+]Greg_W_Allan -8 points-7 points-6 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

If you're happy with a dick which has been reduced in size by at least a third that's entirely up to you.

[–]LgDietCoke 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Lmao, it’s not a swinging competition. Also, you’re stupid

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s quality of life. Easier to clean, stays less gross longer, most women prefer the cut look, I personally think it has a better aesthetic as well... Thwre aren’t many of us who’ve had it done that would prefer it the other way. And none of us who got it done as a baby remember the procedure at all.

[–]Persian-Gulf 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. I was less than a week old. A lot of u guys on here are butthurt and downvoting me cuz I like what I have and happy my parents made that choice. I like cut dicks. It looks attractive. It doesn’t look like ant eater.

[–]jademonkeys_79 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

For those people who enjoy both astrophysics and criticism of circumcisions? Who'd wear this

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I disagree, I wasn’t circumcised when I was born, and growing up and hitting puberty, I noticed that I couldn’t pull my forskin all the way back to clean it while I was showering. I spoke to my doctor and he said that I have a high risk of penile infections if I don’t get it cleaned, and when I told him that I can’t pull it back, he recommended getting circumcised, so I got circumcised 2 years ago and it was a good decision, now I no longer have penile infections or forskin discharged anymore.

[–]intactisnormal 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"An estimated 0.8% to 1.6% of boys will require circumcision before puberty, most commonly to treat phimosis. The first-line medical treatment of phimosis involves applying a topical steroid twice a day to the foreskin, accompanied by gentle traction ... allow[ing] the foreskin to become retractable in 80% of treated cases, thus usually avoiding the need for circumcision."

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You’re link sent me to a website that said I won 1000 $$$

[–]intactisnormal 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like you got a virus, that's the Canadian Paediatrics Society.

[–]checkontharep 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m pretty comfortable with my circumcised penis. I never really thought about it honestly

[–]waltermittty 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ya know, some people like being circumcised. Myself included.

[–]JackFisherBooks 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I cannot argue with this kind of logic.

[–]katamaritumbleweed 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Love this. Great shirt.

[–]omegaphallic 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Great message.

[–]Plisken999 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I thank my mom for letting me decide. She also didnt baptise me.

She said when I was a teenager and asked question.. That she wanted me to decide for myself and that if I wanted to join a religion or be circumsized.. I can make those decisions myself when I am old enough to understand.

I love that she gave me the choice.

I dont have a religion and I sti have my skin.

Thanks mom :)

[–]GrimmPsycho655 -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m happy to be circumcised, couldn’t imagine life any other way.

[–]Zaza_Kurdi -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Too late for me 😔

[–]liriodendron1 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't make you any less of a man. But your in the position to help end the practice.

[+]LgDietCoke -7 points-6 points-5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup, you’re half the man you use to be. Your parents are barbaric butchers and you should shame them for eternity!

[–]Fox-Costeo -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

I quite enjoy not having a foreskin. Looks cleaner and intact foreskin is ugly and unsightly (i look at alot of dicks and prefer ones without foreskin) so i don't see the issue also at 16 you can feel and remember the pain of getting your extra meat skin:tm: snipped

[–]intactisnormal 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

You are free to apply your own thoughts to your own body. And others are free to apply their own thoughts to their own body. To intervene on somebody else's body requires medical necessity.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think you'd be saying that if yo u weren't cut at birth. You'd grow up loving your body, as you appeared to have based on this post.

[+][deleted] -26 points-25 points-24 points 6 years ago (95 children) | Copy Link

I honestly don’t understand why it’s such a problem. I’ve always been told it’s not a necessary thing to do but honestly both sides sorta make sense to me. You remove the skin it’s easier to keep clean and see possible STDs and the downside is you lose some pleasure nerves. Yeah if the doctor slips up it’s a bad thing but i dont know the actual statistics of fuck ups like that. And it’s a lot harder to do this operation when you’re an adult because getting an erection will rip the stitches out. I am open to reasonable conversation do not downvote me to hell.

[–]PuddleOfMush 23 points24 points25 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

  1. Lack of consent. It's a permanent change, why do it to babies who can't consent?
  2. Removal of a functioning body part when it's not medically necessary is wrong.
  3. There are potential complications. Loss of sensitivity, loss of ability to get an erection, keratinization, painful/burning erections, loss of penis, loss of life. Why risk it when it's unnecessary?

You remove the skin it’s easier to keep clean and see possible STDs and the downside is you lose some pleasure nerves

Congrats, you just made an argument in favor of female genital mutilation. You know, that thing that literally everyone is against.

[+][deleted] -10 points-9 points-8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I said I understand both sides I see the pros and cons for both and I’m more on the side that says genitalia mutilation is wrong. Hence why I’m subbed to this group, I never advocated for female genitalia mutilation ether, if that is what you got out of that then you’re just twisting my words exactly like the “woman’s rights” people do from time to time.

[+]needletothebar1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (49 children) | Copy Link

why do you think you have a right to decide how another man's penis will look and function for the rest of his life?

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (48 children) | Copy Link

I never claimed I did?

[+]needletothebar1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (47 children) | Copy Link

so you weren't suggesting that a man's father should be the one to choose if that man gets his whole penis or only part of it?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (46 children) | Copy Link

I’m saying the choice is made by the mother most of the time, what I was saying is the father should get a say in that discussion. Assuming that he is in disagreement on the mothers stance on wanting to get the procedure done.

[+]needletothebar1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (44 children) | Copy Link

my father doesn't deserve any more say than my mother deserves. they both belong in prison for what they did to me.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (43 children) | Copy Link

Jesus buddy look my penis was cut as a child also but you don’t see me saying my parents deserve to be thrown in prison what the fuck.

[+]needletothebar1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (42 children) | Copy Link

how much of your penis would you let them cut off before you stand up for yourself and your rights?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (41 children) | Copy Link

I dont know how much of yours did they cut off? Cause you’re acting like they castrated you. I’m on your side I just wanted to start a dialog and you took this way to far.

[+]needletothebar1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (40 children) | Copy Link

do you think parents should be able to amputate any of their daughter's clitoris without being charged with child abuse?

[–]thwip62 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

For what it's worth, more often than not, this is done because of the father, not the mother. That's neither here nor there, though. The only person who should make this decision is the person who will be directly affected.

[–]Mrskirksey 11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

You might find that some of the benefits you mention are really not true, which is why people are against it... check out these websites for some info. https://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org https://www.yourwholebaby.org

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

See this is what I was looking for when I posted this. Shit actually backed up by facts not just wild accusations. Thank you!

[–]Mrskirksey 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Youre welcome. Sometimes we are just so passionate about issues that we forget to share the source of information from which we found our passion for it in the first place.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I honestly just wanted to open a dialogue on the subject but I’m getting treated like I just went on a woman’s rights subreddit and said something like “rape should be legal” I honestly am not against the idea of getting rid of this part of our culture all together I just wanted to hear what other people thought of the subject, because most of the posts like this one I see on here are circle jerks saying it’s bad.

[–]Mrskirksey 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I understand. For me personally this is one of those topics that once I learned about the ins and outs, I cant "unlearn" it or forget it, so for me circumcisiom is wrong, done deal. But, before I ever learned about it, I had no real opinion on it. So I try to remember the POV of someome who maybe just hasnt been exposed to the information surrounding the issue (which in my opinion probably constitutes majority of people who dont have any problems with circumcision, circumcised men included) and just try to direct them to the same info that changed my mind too.

[–]18Apollo18 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m getting treated like I just went on a woman’s rights subreddit and said something like “rape should be legal”

But that's exactly what you did. You when on a men's right s subreddit and defended male genital mutilation

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t defend it Jesus how many times am I gonna say this today. I just wanted to hear the other side of this.

[–]Greg_W_Allan 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

These are good references which are reasonable and moderate in their presentation. No hyperbole.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree they lay out facts and get to the point they don’t try and sway you in any direction. I did notice however that one of them did say that outside of the USA no other country does this and I do find that inaccurate. I live in Canada and 90% of the friends I’ve made that are men have been circumcised.

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The circumsison rate in Canada and Australia are both 30% and dropping every year. They both used to circumcise just like the US but it's dying out.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I said I find it a bit inaccurate in my experience. Not saying it was inaccurate just because I disagree.

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Shit actually backed up by facts not just wild accusations.

There's only one study that I know of that actually shows circumsison has any benefit at all. Literally just one. And it was done in subsaharan Africa not in the US or Europe (completely different conditions), circumcised men couldn't have sex for several weeks after the surgery, and they were instructed on the importance of condoms. First of all this is only one study (there's always anomalies you can't rely on only one study), second of all there's several flaws in the methodology circumcised men has several advantages, thirdly it was done in an area of the world with way poor sanitary conditions then they US so even if it didn't have any flaws we couldn't assume it'd be applicable in countries with better sanitation but yet doctors reference it till they're blue in the face

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I wasn’t being sarcastic I was genuinely thanking them for siting actual sources

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I wasn't being sarcastic either. That's the only major study in the world in favor of circumsison. But yet doctors and articles online reverence it all the time

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I only have one question regarding this though. What’s the motive? Why is this done who gains from it?

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

How do I know? All I know is the only pro Circ study people actual reference is one done in Africa in 2005 and 2007

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Then why do doctors still recommend it? Not all but I bet some do.

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Outside of the US it isn't recommend (excluding Muslims and Jewish countries who have a religious reasons to promote circumcision)

Canadian Paediatric Society (CPS) (2015)

The CPS does not recommend the routine circumcision of every newborn male. It further states that when “medical necessity is not established, …interventions should be deferred until the individual concerned is able to make their own choices.”

Royal Dutch Medical Association (KNMG) (2010)

The KNMG states “there is no convincing evidence that circumcision is useful or necessary in terms of prevention or hygiene.” It regards the non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors as a violation of physical integrity, and argues that boys should be able to make their own decisions about circumcision.

The Royal Australasian College of Physicians (RACP) (2010)

The RACP states that routine infant circumcision is not warranted in Australia and New Zealand. It argues that, since cutting children involves physical risks which are undertaken for the sake of merely psychosocial benefits or debatable medical benefits, it is ethically questionable whether parents ought to be able to make such a decision for a child.

British Medical Association (BMA) (2006)

The BMA considers that the evidence concerning health benefits from non-therapeutic circumcision is insufficient as a justification for doing it. It suggests that it is “unethical and inappropriate” to circumcise for therapeutic reasons when effective and less invasive alternatives exist.

Expert statement from the German Association of Pediatricians (BVKJ) (2012)

In testimony to the German legislature, the President of the BVKJ has stated, “there is no reason from a medical point of view to remove an intact foreskin from …boys unable to give their consent.” It asserts that boys have the same right to physical integrity as girls in German law, and, regarding non-therapeutic circumcision, that parents’ right to freedom of religion ends at the point where the child’s right to physical integrity is infringed upon.

In addition

 medical organizations and children’s ombudsmen from a number of other countries, including Belgium, Finland, Norway, Slovenia, South Africa, Denmark, and Sweden, have gone on record in opposition to non-therapeutic circumcision of boys.

[–]TheGuyWhoCriedOnions 27 points28 points29 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

It’s an unnecessary medical procedure. That’s the issue.

[+]forzion_no_mouse1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

maybe we should do surgery on all kids to remove extra skin and pleasure nerves. if sex doesn't feel as good we will have less STDs

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair point.

[–]gordongessler 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

it’s easier to keep clean

Is it though? The only way I'd see it being easier is if you don't have to do it at all. It's really not hard to begin with.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Saves you about 1.5 seconds in cleaning. And one less area to get sweaty and swampy I guess.

[–]thwip62 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

> Saves you about 1.5 seconds in cleaning.

1.5 seconds? Even if it took twice as long as that, it's still not a big deal, certainly not enough to justify cutting off body parts.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Go look at webmd they list other benifits I already said elsewhere in this comment chain I’m more Sympathetic to this issue then going in apon reading into it further by websites provided by people who haven’t called me an idiot.

[–]thwip62 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

WebMD is American, isn't it? They won't be unbiased.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Everyone is bias to something. I’m bias to conservatives. CNN is bias to democrats. Etc.

[–]thwip62 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

> I’ve always been told it’s not a necessary thing to do

Well, of course it's not necessary. Most men haven't had this done to them, and they're fine.

> You remove the skin it’s easier to keep clean

People wash their whole bodies. How does cutting off one part for "easier cleaning" make any sense? Washing your hair is probably more hassle than washing a normal penis. Should we have our hair removed, too? I wash my ass after I take a shit, but I don't complain about how much effort it takes, I just do it.

> and see possible STDs

So having bits of your dick removed makes you completely immune to STDs, does it?

> Yeah if the doctor slips up it’s a bad thing

"A bad thing"? Is that what you call ruining a person's future sex life while performing an operation that doesn't need to be performed? What the hell are these parents supposed to tell their son? How can he forgive them?

> but i dont know the actual statistics of fuck ups like that.

The actual statistics are irrelevant. That it's a possibility at all should be enough reason not to do it.

> And it’s a lot harder to do this operation when you’re an adult because getting an erection will rip the stitches out.

I don't buy this, but even if it were true, it's unlikely an adult will want or need this procedure. If he does, then the responsibility falls entirely upon him.

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I honestly don’t understand why it’s such a problem.

It violates body autonomy when there is no medical need. This can't be overlooked.

But more info: The foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis. (Full study.) 

For more information on the detailed anatomy and role of the foreskin, I recommend watching this presentation from Dr. Guest is he discusses the innervation of the foreskin, how the most sensitive part of the penis is removed during circumcision, and the mechanical function of the foreskin. He also goes on to medical aspects. 

[+]DelScipio1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

The problem is that most of those facts aren't true at all.

STD risk reduction is very very low. So low that isn't acceptable in developed countries as effective way to reduce STD. Is só low that isn't even statistical significative in developed countries!

An uncircumcised penis is very easy to clean, is the same as yours, water and soap.

That is false, the stitches don't rip with an erection. That is as common as losing your penis during a circumcision. Is more painful, because you remember, but that's all. But phymosis isn't that frequent. Most phymosis, 97%, get fixed during earlier years.

Now, sex performance. Uncircumcised take more time to orgasm, but recent studies show that women don't like that. Women aren't porn actresses, they want to orgasm faster possible, and they do faster with uncircumcised penis. In the end there's no statistical difference in women reaching orgasm with uncircumcised or a circumcised, but they have less pain with uncircumcised penis because faster orgasm, more lubrication. This leads to better satisfaction with uncircumcised penis.

And lets not forget masturbation, a very important thing in men life. Masturbation is very important for a penis health, as is a lot better in uncircumcised penis

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I dont know about you but every woman I’ve been with liked the fact that they orgasmed before me. Other than that I really cannot debate you. Other than that I said it’s probably easier to spot an STD with the penis circumcised like herpies and warts when they are near the base of the head. And I appreciate the civility of you argument, thank you.

[+]DelScipio1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Ya, women orgasm more easily with an uncircumcised penis. There's no difference (statistically) between women orgasms (orgasm before men) in circumcised VS uncircumcised, but having and orgasm faster leads to better sexual satisfaction to women, because friction, etc. The skin in uncircumcised penis increase friction, but being self lubed and reducing the amount of time to make a women orgasm, reduces the injuries that happen in a sex in their vagina.

If you have herpes is easy to identify it on both situations. There's no difference in that. The difference is that circumcised penis have more lahngerhans cells in the scar (that's the theory) and that reduces infection rate in Africa (not a lot) . They tried to see if the same happens in developed countries, it didn't, because we have better hygiene. Still this argument was used by pro circumcision movement.

NP. The porblem is that many people here are trolls in these situations, and some people get fed up.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Oh I’m definitely not trolling. I was honestly just curious cause I’m cut and never noticed any downside because of it all I’ve heard mostly about Benefits of being cut is and I quote -Some girls prefer the look of circumcised penises -Quicker to spot STDs -and easier to clean But I get that most the first one is subjective the and the others only save you about really a second in time. Overall this experience has made me more sympathetic towards this cause but overall I don’t see it as a big issue in the bigger picture of things. And if you look at my other arguments with people on this it’s been a long Journey.

[+]DelScipio1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Ya, ya. That's why I replied to you. Otherwise I would pass.

If you put and erected penis side by side they would note no difference.

The biggest problem with circumcision isn't when things are fine. Is when surgeries go wrong. Insensitive penis, pain during sex (some doctors cut too much), infection that can lead to penis mutilation.

These are rare, 2% of circumcision can have important functional problems. But when you do a population circumcision you are creating a problem. Is different 2% of 2% than 2% of 55% (actual circumcision rate in USA, dropping every year).

This is why people are against a unnecessary surgery that is a religious act, to avoid masturbation.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah that is true and very valid. But I doubt Jewish people are gonna stop doing it lol

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Muslims try to push for FGM to be legal in the US yet it's still illegal. Your own religious freedom ends at another person's body

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not Jewish I was just saying I doubt they are gonna stop unless it’s made illegal but then they’ll just move to Israel and do it anyway.

[+]BrolieTv -8 points-7 points-6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s enough internet for the day...

[+]WifiKeyHolder -7 points-6 points-5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Go away. We don’t want your breasts. Stop looking for attention.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't know man, those are some pretty nice breasts. I'll allow it.

[–]WifiKeyHolder -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Donate to her patreon. Feed female privilege. Give them the attention they crave like crazed children.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Too late for me :(

[–]the_crx 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

There's no reason to be sad.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I know, but a doctor stole a part of my fucking dick. Wouldn't you be pissed to, then?

[–]the_crx 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

No. 99.99999% of my life would be same either way.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah and that 0.0000000% would be a pissed you (and your missing foreskin)

[–]the_crx 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So zero. That's what I said. It doesn't really matter.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I was just joking all the time ma man. I dont even know how it is like having foreskin, but sometimes I feel like I should have made that decision, that is what pisses me off. I first needed to see one side, and look at benefits and disadvantages. Then decide if I want to make that change. I am fine eith thag, but that us what pisses me off. Sorry if I seemd spoiled :/ Good day, assumingly sir :D

[–]Thejedi168 -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

This may be controversial, BUT, I really don't care. Sure, it may technically be "mutilation", and I didn't get choice to do it, but it really doesn't bother me. I can still use it perfectly fine, and it never really gets brought up because your private parts are called private parts for a reason. HOWEVER, I can see how some people don't like it.

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Why does EVERYONE MAKE IT ABOUT THEMSELVES!? This is about the babies that this procedure is being forced on, we just want to STOP that, why do you not care about babies? are they just our guinea pigs now?

[–]Thejedi168 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I said at the bottom I understand how people don't like it. You probably only read the first part of my comment and started ranting without reading the rest. That's why the anti-circumsion movement is viewed so negatively. Because people like you that don't want to listen.

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

What is there to listen? I draw the line at baby genital surgery, its a non-negotiable stance. Either you are pro-baby cutting or you're not and we're not here to find a middle ground between mutilating babies.

That's why the anti-circumcision movement is viewed so negatively

And Europeans&Asians view the mutilation culture of America very negatively too, you realize that USA is the only Western Nation on earth that still has a majority of cut men, right?

[–]Thejedi168 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If you didn't want to listen, you wouldn't've replied. But instead you decided to take my words and use them towards your own agenda. And I was talking about what the people who are pro-circumcision think of. The countries who don't do it have no need for an anti movement.

[–]RockmanXX 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I replied to tell you that there's no middle ground to be had here, we are totally against unnecessary surgeries on babies.

And I was talking about what the people who are pro-circumcision think of

Why should we care? they've made up their minds and we've also made up our minds.

[–]Thejedi168 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So then what's the point of replying if "there's no middle ground"

[–]RockmanXX 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

To set the record straight.

[–]PiemanAidan -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I’m starting to get the feeling the majority of this sub is made up of women trying to promote their own agenda about giving birth to males. There are pros and cons to this topic and it’s becoming really toxic and draining.

[–]RockmanXX 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

No one's interested in the "pros" of forcing a baby through an irreversible&unnecessary surgical procedure because there are none.

[–]PiemanAidan -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

There are. also, 1/3rd of the world’s population believes in it, so I’m not sure where you are getting the “no one’s interested” in it. There’s just a clear pattern with these posts and the reactions that are brought. There is not enough pros or cons to decide which is the better solution which is why it shouldn’t be discussed until it is further researched.

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There are.

From the Canadian Paediatrics Society:

“It has been estimated that 111 to 125 normal infant boys (for whom the risk of UTI is 1% to 2%) would need to be circumcised at birth to prevent one UTI.” And UTIs can easily be treated with antibiotics.

“The number needed to [circumcise] to prevent one HIV infection varied, from 1,231 in white males to 65 in black males, with an average in all males of 298.” And circumcision is not effective prevention, condoms must be used regardless. 

"An estimated 0.8% to 1.6% of boys will require circumcision before puberty, most commonly to treat phimosis. The first-line medical treatment of phimosis involves applying a topical steroid twice a day to the foreskin, accompanied by gentle traction ... allow[ing] the foreskin to become retractable in 80% of treated cases, thus usually avoiding the need for circumcision."

“Decreased penile cancer risk: [Number needed to circumcise] = 900 – 322,000” to prevent a single case of penile cancer.

These stats are terrible, it's disingenuous for these to be called legitimate health benefits. And more importantly, all of these items have a different treatment or prevention method that is more effective and less invasive.

Meanwhile the foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis.(Full study.)

There is not enough pros or cons to decide which is the better solution

The standard to intervene on someone else's body is medical necessity. 

The Canadian Paediatrics Society puts it well:

Neonatal circumcision is a contentious issue in Canada. The procedure often raises ethical and legal considerations, in part because it has lifelong consequences and is performed on a child who cannot give consent. Infants need a substitute decision maker – usually their parents – to act in their best interests. Yet the authority of substitute decision makers is not absolute. In most jurisdictions, authority is limited only to interventions deemed to be medically necessary. In cases in which medical necessity is not established or a proposed treatment is based on personal preference, interventions should be deferred until the individual concerned is able to make their own choices. With newborn circumcision, medical necessity has not been clearly established.

http://www.cps.ca/documents/position/circumcision

To override someone's body autonomy rights the standard is medical necessity. Without necessity the decision goes to the patient themself, later in life. Circumcision is very far from being medically necessary.

[–]RockmanXX 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

1/3rd of the world’s population believes in it

EXCEPT, they are Muslims and do it for religious reasons, if we're gonna start following Muslims then should we also follow sharia law?? Most of Europe,Asia(Sans Muslims) are uncut.

not enough pros or cons to decide which is the better solution which is why it shouldn’t be discussed until it is further researched.

Just do it as an Adult by your own free will, don't force it on babies. How would you like if your parents decided to give you a tattoo as a baby? Would you respect that? no, you'd be angry that your parents did something hurtful to you as a child.

[–]PiemanAidan 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Catholics and Jews do it as well. and it’s practiced in several west African and indian cultures

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Catholics and Jews do it as well

I'm pretty sure Catholics don't do it and Jews are a not major group on earth in terms of population. Only 2 distinct major groups on earth that practice it are Americans&Muslims(from Africa&Asia combined), and i don't feel like following anything Islam related.

[+]GitGudScrubzzz0 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

There is not enough pros or cons to decide which is the better solution

Objectively wrong. The science is settled on this, not our fault you're too fucking dense to understand the plentiful research out there about the harms of circumcision.

[–]PiemanAidan 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You’re just as dense for ignoring all of the harms for not doing it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Bro, there's no reason to force it on kids. Kids usually aren't born with dick problems.

[+]NotTodayJesus666 -6 points-5 points-4 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Not understanding the issue here. Its 100% an option if you want to be circumcised or not

[–]theskullcrusher8776 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No most people are cut while they're a baby so they can't consent

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Nobody is saying a man can't choose it for himself if he wants to, when he is of age to make decisions for himself.

But nobody gave me or 99% of the other men cut as babies any choice in the matter.

And yes, many of those men grow up and don't see it as a problem, and good for them.

But for those of us who do take issue with it, there is no recourse. Our only option is a to try and stretch the remaining skin, hours a day for several years, to try and regain a fraction of the lost sensation and function. But there's no getting back the specialized nerve endings that were lost.

[–]NotTodayJesus666 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Okay I understand now. And forgive me for being ignorant but I thought that when you get circumcised you gain more nerve endings. You lose them?!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

No, that's impossible. When you amputate any body part you will of course lose whatever nerves were there. The few studies that have been done have shown that all of the most sensitive parts of the penis are in the foreskin. On a circumcised man, the most sensitive part of his penis usually is the scar line where the tiny bit of tissue from his original foreskin remains.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17378847/

"CONCLUSIONS: The glans of the circumcised penis is less sensitive to fine touch than the glans of the uncircumcised penis. The transitional region from the external to the internal prepuce is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis and more sensitive than the most sensitive region of the circumcised penis. Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23374102/?i=3&from=/17378847/related

"CONCLUSIONS: This study confirms the importance of the foreskin for penile sensitivity, overall sexual satisfaction, and penile functioning. Furthermore, this study shows that a higher percentage of circumcised men experience discomfort or pain and unusual sensations as compared with the uncircumcised population. Before circumcision without medical indication, adult men, and parents considering circumcision of their sons, should be informed of the importance of the foreskin in male sexuality."

[+]ShavedRope -8 points-7 points-6 points 6 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

These comments can get real mob mentality like real quick. At the end of the day, It makes no real difference and there is no "right answer" have your discussion, be civil, but dont just downvote and berate because you dont agree with someone.

Edit: Closed minds. If you ever want anyone to take you seriously, see both sides and or differing perspectives, it's part of being an adult.

[–]RockmanXX 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It makes no real difference and

Except for the baby who just cries&cries all week in pain... i guess that doesn't matter, huh? They can't speak so they don't have rights.

[–]Resplendent_Fervor -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My dog is faster then the fastest human easy but hes still a couch potato.

[–]HardKase -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I like this photo

[–]Devi1s-Advocate -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What IS the medical industries reason for circumcision? I'm circumcised, never been an issue for me, subsequently I know almost nothing about this topic, but it seems to be getting more traction the past few years.

[–]DarthEquus 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The commonly claimed benefits of circumcision are that it reduces the risk of getting UTIs, penile cancer, and prevents STDs. These claims are based on reports made by the American Association of Pediatrics. But there is a lot of criticism regarding their research. The important points are mentioned below:

  • It takes around 100 circumcisions to prevent a single UTI, and UTIs can be treated easily by other less invasive ways, like antibiotics. Not to mention, it is easily prevented with basic hygiene. 1 case of UTI may be prevented at the cost of 2 cases of haemorrhage, infection, or, in rare instances, more severe outcomes or even death. This negates whatever minuscule protective benefit circumcision might have against UTIs. And it should be noted that girls are about 10 times more likely to get UTIs and yet we do not alter their bodies to reduce their risk of infection
  • Penile cancer is one of the rarest forms of cancer in the Western world (∼1 case in 100,000 men per year, rarer than male breast cancer), almost always occurring at a later age with the average being 68. When diagnosed early, the disease generally has a good survival rate. According to the AAP report, between 909 and 322,000 circumcisions are needed to prevent 1 case of penile cancer. Penile cancer is linked to infection with HPV, which can be prevented without tissue loss through condom use and prophylactic inoculation. Incidence rates of penile cancer in the United States, where ∼75% of the non-Jewish, non-Muslim male population is circumcised, are similar to rates in northern Europe, where ≤10% of the male population is circumcised
  • The studies that claim circumcision prevents STDs often confuse correlation with causation. In fact, circumcision might increase the risk of contracting STDs, because it can cause pain and bleeding, increasing the risk of infection. The authors of the AAP report forget to stress that responsible use of condoms, regardless of circumcision status, will provide close to 100% reduction in risk for any STD

Another common claim is that circumcision reduces the risk of men contracting HIV by 60%. These were the results of some trials done in Africa, which found that 2.5% of intact men and 1.3% of circumcised men got HIV. The 60% figure is the relative risk (2.5%-1.2%)÷2.5%. The AAP also ignored the statistics showing that there was a 61% relative increase (6% absolute increase) in HIV infection among female partners of circumcised men. It appears that the number of circumcisions needed to infect a woman was 16.7, with one woman becoming infected for every 17 circumcisions performed

Moreover, there were several methodological errors in these trials:

  • The circumcised experimental group got more medical care, including education on the proper use of condoms
  • The trials were terminated early when statistical significance was reached
  • In one study, circumcised men's infection rates were increasing faster than the intact men's, until the study was terminated early
  • The circumcised group could not have sex for 4-6 weeks after the circumcision; this was excluded from the analysis and distorts the results
  • HIV was contracted through means other than sex
  • Many researchers had cultural and religious biases

The findings are also not in line with the fact that the United States combines a high prevalence of STDs and HIV infections with high circumcision rates. The situation in most European countries is the reverse: low circumcision rates combined with low HIV and STD rates. Therefore, other factors play a more important role in the spread of HIV than circumcision status. This also shows that there are alternate, less intrusive, and more effective ways of preventing HIV than circumcision, such as consistent use of condoms, safe-sex programs, easy access to antiretroviral drugs, and clean needle programs

Further criticism of the African RCTs:

Critique of African RCTs into Male Circumcision and HIV Sexual Transmission

Circumcision of male infants and children as a public health measure in developed countries: A critical assessment of recent evidence

Sexually Transmitted Infections and Male Circumcision: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis

Even if circumcision did reduce rates of HIV transmission, which it doesn't, it would be a small reduction. “The number needed to [circumcise] to prevent one HIV infection varied, from 1,231 in white males to 65 in black males, with an average in all males of 298. The model did not account for the cost of complications of circumcision. In addition, there is a risk that men may overestimate the protective effect of being circumcised and be less likely to adopt safe sex practices.”

And besides all of that, babies are not having sex. They are not transmitting ANY STDs to anyone. By the time a person is old enough to engage in sexual activities, they are old enough to decide about such body modifications for themselves

Balanitis is extremely rare. Having a surgical incision in a dirty diaper increases the risk of balanitis. This risk decreases in all males drastically after puberty. It is easily preventable with good hygiene and most cases respond to treatment in under a week

Phimosis doesn't warrant circumcision. It can be cured by stretching the foreskin gently at regular intervals. For faster results, steroid creams can also be used. If stretching doesn't work, surgery like Z-plasty and preputioplasty can be done as a last resort. None of these treatments results in the loss of tissue. Moreover, some doctors misdiagnose phimosis in young children, when they're supposed to have foreskins which can't retract, until puberty, though in some cases the foreskin becomes retractable earlier. Improper handling of the foreskins of children can cause phimosis

"An estimated 0.8% to 1.6% of boys will require circumcision before puberty, most commonly to treat phimosis. The first-line medical treatment of phimosis involves applying a topical steroid twice a day to the foreskin, accompanied by gentle traction ... allow[ing] the foreskin to become retractable in 80% of treated cases, thus usually avoiding the need for circumcision."

Smegma and hygiene are ridiculous reasons for circumcision. Properly washing the penis is enough. If you don't wash your junk, it will get dirty, period. Foreskins aren't releasing a constant ooze of smegma. You would have to neglect your basic hygiene for some time to get a significant buildup. And even then, washing takes maybe a second or two. It's not rocket science

The legitimacy of research supporting circumcision

The literature review by the American Academy of Pediatrics, which supports circumcision, does not mention any of the functions of the foreskin, implying that it is useless

Ethicist Brian Earp shows how scientific literature can be filled with bias, how medical literature can get biased with controversial opinions disguised as systematic reviews, and how a small group of researchers with an agenda can rig a systematic review in medicine to make it say whatever they want.

Opposition to circumcision by foreign medical organizations

Other medical associations and doctors in the world, from the Netherlands, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand, Germany, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Slovenia and South Africa have stated that circumcision causes complications, have also said that the evidence supporting circumcision is insufficient and flawed, and consider the AAP's views scientifically unsound. Some of them have gone on record in opposition to non-therapeutic circumcision of boys. Some doctors in the US oppose it too

Functions of the Foreskin

The foreskin has several unique physiological functions. The foreskin represents at least a third of the penile skin. It protects the glans from abrasion and contact with clothes. It also increases sexual pleasure by sliding up and down on the shaft, stimulating the glans by alternately covering and exposing it. Not to mention that it is highly erogenous tissue in and of itself.

Attempts to legitimize FGM

Another issue with using "health benefits" to justify infant male circumcision is that the same poor reasons given for baby boys are the same reasons being used in attempts to legalize and legitimize FGM on girls. They will try and use the logic that: "If it is legal on boys because there are slight medical benefits, then it should be legal and acceptable for girls as well."

[–]counter345 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Great post. Saving for future reference

[–]Potatolover3 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You wanna know something fucked. I have a friend who is uncircumcised and my two other circumcised friends were (jokingly) making fun of him, for not being mutilated as a baby.

[–]dr3adlock -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Can't we just say it's fucking wrong? Seems odd to me that we have to go as fare as comparing a non cercimsized person to an astronaut.

[–]-Daws- -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Circumcision is fine

[–]badjuju420420 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

Ick no fuh king way.

I have the freedom to practice my culture and an uncut dick is gross af.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

You sound like an intelligent and reasonable person.

Nah, you're just an asshole, nevermind.

[–]badjuju420420 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

Nah, just someone who appreciates the relevance between circumcision and cleanliness.

It's also easy to wash your face and brush your teeth but how many toothless, pus filled idiots do you see?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

Imagine cutting off half your dick skin and 80% of the fine touch nerves because you want to clean it easier.

I just don't understand how people can be this dumb.

[–]badjuju420420 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

That's a fallacy... uncircumcised appreciate sex and can feel it the same as an uncircumcised. Dont be a disengenious prick.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

That's where you're wrong kiddo.

https://circumcision.org/functions-of-the-foreskin/

​

Yes, circumcised men can enjoy sex, but to say it's the same is absolutely fucking wrong, and dangerous to spread.

[–]badjuju420420 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

That is ridickulous...

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

I know, trust me I was flabbergasted when I first learned, too. One might say I was resistant to it for a while.

[–]badjuju420420 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Nah... that's how dogma works.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Oh you mean like being tricked into cutting little boy dicks for the past 90 years?

Face it man, this is wrong.

[–]Fox-Costeo -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean i have a a bro who was never snipped and he thinks its ugly i can post a pic of his dick if you want for proof. But he hates foreskin too

[–]vodoko1 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Bro listen we can’t help the smell!

[+]jagenigma -8 points-7 points-6 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Women are fighting for men now? Is there anything women wont take away from men?

[–]theskullcrusher8776 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You seriously gonna bitch cause some women are helping you

[–]jagenigma -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Women cant fight for men in things they dont truly understand and go through and vice versa.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Buddy no social movement in history has ever succeeded because it was supported solely by the people who were directly effected or victimized by that issue. You need support from the people who "don't truly understand or go through" these things to make any change.

[–]18Apollo18 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's like saying straight people can't support LGBT rights and defend gay marriage. It doesn't even make any sense.

[–]jagenigma 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So straight people understand how it is to be gay/transgendered?

It would be very hard to put yourself in their shoes. You can only imagine what they go through. While I am all for equality, I cant speak on behalf of others that are fighting for their rights. Honestly there shouldn't even be a fight. Human rights are there for everyone. Ancient, archaic laws and old politicians are the reason why there are these fights.

Going off on a tangent here.

Point being, If you dont know what someone is going through, support them, no external activism needed.

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Circumcised fathers are some of the biggest endorsers of MGM. A lot of women, especially mothers are against it. Anyone who fights for men's rights is an MRA, also just having a penis doesn't make you an MRA

[–]Luchadorgreen -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I like multiple things about this photo.

Edit: Wow, several people have sticks up their asses.

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