Please don't call me mutilated anymore

aPseudonymPho · 2013-02-13T01:02:57+00:00

Let me ask you a question in response.

Do you think we should stop calling victims of type 4 infibulation, victims of female genital mutilation?

I hope that's all it takes to see the point, and irrelevancy (and inanity) of picking a descriptor for something based on and for the sake of not offending.

I see where you're coming from, but it is the unfortunate reality of the situation, and exactly why this fight against it is so important. Hiding behind cuddly names like "cut" and "circ" allows people to ease their own guilt, and justify continuing this insane and disgusting practice.

I simply will not allow that to happen. Sorry. I hope you don't feel badly about yourself however, because there isn't much you can do (short of restoring, which I would personally highly recommend). If it bothers you so much, perhaps you should take it up with the people who decided to have it done to you. Namely, your parents.

Note - I dont think this (the thread) is deserving of downvotes, I think it is an important message delivered by many many many circumcised men in the world, whom have yet to hear anything about it beyond the messages their respective culture groups deliver. It needs to be explained why mutilation, is the correct term for the procedure, when done in the contexts described by the OP.

Edit: If you've read through this post and are shaking your head, don't get what I'm saying at all, or think I'm flat out wrong, I would encourage you to read through my discussion from start to finish with the OP in the following comments. I was better able to articulate what I meant in the following comments, and hopefully that will change your mind. If not, of course feel free to downvote and be on your way, or if you feel, leave me a comment in response and I'll try to clear up any miscommunications (or surrender to agree to disagree haha).

tearsandtears · 2013-02-13T04:35:41+00:00

This seems to have been popping up more and more recently, circumcised men feeling threatened, offended or insulted by the discussion of the practice. I hope none of what I have said has contributed to this. And I expect most people in the debate are not setting out to hurt other men.

For me, the decision is obvious, and does not even need to invoke any part of a man's adult life. Circumcision involves deliberately inflicting pain on a child for an unnecessary procedure. This alone should see it banned.

throwawayroy · 2013-02-13T01:56:55+00:00

I'm circumcised as well and I feel like I was mutilated. If you feel like you weren't that's fine, but don't tell me I'm not and can not refer to it as such.

Gentle-Mang · 2013-02-13T08:40:15+00:00

you're going to give people a complex about their penises

Implying men don't usually have a complex about their penises. There are plenty of variables for guys to obsess and worry about already.

I am ostensibly part of the demographic these comments are fighting to help.

I'd disagree with that. The demographic that we are fighting to help are the babies that have yet to be born and circumcised. We cannot backdate the change to your date of birth.

I'm uncut myself, so I guess I can't really relate to how you feel, but I think that the use of emotive language helps change peoples minds, and I think that the benefits of branding circumcision as mutilation are better for men as a whole.

I know its unfair to paint an aspect of your manhood as undesirable especially when its beyond your control, but as I said before guys already have plenty of variables to worry about when it comes to their dicks. Size for example, guys get insecure about their size, our culture says that bigger is better and the use of above average guys in porn is probably partly responsible for that. Should should we be pressuring the porn industry into using more average sized and small guys in their films? I don't think so.

scottmelvin · 2013-02-13T06:29:55+00:00

I've come to accept the fact that just because I don't consider myself mutilated, does not mean it isn't mutilation.

sillymod · 2013-02-13T00:56:19+00:00

People are allowed to have their opinions. You have yours, they have theirs. On /r/MensRights, we don't require or encourage that people censor themselves because someone else is bothered by the statement.

MRAMoment · 2013-02-13T03:31:10+00:00

I want my foreskin back.

What you want for yours I don't care about. I want mine back. I can't have it back. It makes me feel powerless.

Don't want to feel mutilated? Fine. Don't. I do. At a young age I decided I never wanted to have surgery. knock on wood At a slightly older age, I found out that decision was made for me. At an older age, I discovered by inference from women who have been with other men who were not circumcised responded differently than I to sex and sex acts. She may as well have been sucking my thumb by comparison.

So what can I do? Nothing at the moment. When and if I ever have a son he won't be getting cut. I will also do my best to ensure sons of my friends don't get their dicks trimmed either.

One of these days, I would like to tell my parents how I feel. I feel guilty about that for some reason. I'm not the one who OK'd the unnecessary surgery, and yet I'm the one who feels guilty at the prospect of possibly upsetting my parents, both of whom I love, over what some consider a trivial issue.

It's not trivial to me.

I wonder what would happen if cut people told their parents how they felt. Would an expecting parent feel differently if they thought there was a chance their son would tell them what they thought of it later in life? What would say to your parents? Would you thank them? Or would you say, "I want my foreskin back?"

Or would you be like me so far. Suffering silently, as men often do, not telling anybody how you really feel because they'll tell you you shouldn't feel that way or you shouldn't feel angry or you shouldn't want your foreskin back because you're better off without it. And you love your parents, but with a twinge of guilt that sometimes interrupts moments of closeness. Because they put your appearance ahead of what you might feel. Because they threw a part of you into the medical waste bin. Because they didn't want questions about why I was different, so they made me the same, perpetuating a cruelty that need not be performed.

Yet you stay silent because you don't want to hurt them, even if they hurt you. I'm still silent, because I'm scared of what will happen if I break that silence and put a voice to a pain that nobody wants to hear.

aborders79 · 2013-02-13T00:56:41+00:00

I applaud you for accepting what happened in your infancy. You can't change facts, though, and the facts are that circumcision is genital mutilation. It is considered that when done to females, the fact that it's so passively accepted amongst makes is a disgrace. It is the needless amputation of an important part of a functioning organ. I am sorry that these facts upset you, but saying it isn't mutilation is like getting offended when someone says eating fast food makes you fat.

2013-02-13T13:59:34+00:00

Fine. I will not tell you specifically that you have been mutilated.

I was genitally mutilated so I will continue to call the practice of circumcision mutilation. And if you try to silence that discussion... then fuck you.

theskepticalidealist · 2013-02-13T03:36:32+00:00

Please don't call me mutilated anymore

Well Im sorry you feel that way, but the fact is the people that say all FGM is wrong and terrible cannot defend circumcision. That needs to be pointed out.

2013-02-13T09:56:09+00:00

The truth doesn't care about your feelings. It's nonconsensual mutilation that was originally intended to curb sexual satisfaction and desire. It has been retained and rationalized as ethical by people who profit from it and people who allow religion to physically brand and desexualize boys.

You were mutilated for no reason without your consent.

rg57 · 2013-02-13T05:02:50+00:00

While the word "mutilation" bothers you, something you said bothers me.

"Having had the procedure done ... at infancy"

Your wording implies that it was your decision, when it was certainly someone else's. Unsurprisingly, you may like the look of your scarred penis today, but that doesn't create consent in the past.

"for cosmetic reasons"

There are no cosmetic reasons to physically modify the sexual organ of an infant, except in the eyes of child molesters.

circuitology · 2013-02-13T18:20:01+00:00

It is mutilation. You were mutilated.
You don't want to feel like you're missing out, or are incomplete, or different.

We all can understand where you're coming from, OP. But the fact remains that it is mutilation.

r_rships_account · 2013-02-13T03:07:49+00:00

People who use the word mutilated in this context are alienating the people they think they're helping.

I think circumcision is technically a mutilation (like tattooing), but I agree with you that we shouldn't refer to circumcised men as "mutilated". I've been asking people to be a bit more sensitive about this for a while. Why would we want to alienate the very people we are relying on not to do this to their sons? There is no purpose in preaching to the converted.

I think it's reasonable to call the operation either MGM or circumcision - but I think the term MGM is only justifiable because of the widespread use of the term FGM, and I certainly wouldn't support calling a man "mutilated" because he was circumcised, unless he were using equally insensitive epithets against uncircumcised men.

2013-02-13T10:01:37+00:00

All I will do, is say that your brain has been mutilated too.

It IS mutilation. And you are an idiot for believing it’s somehow not bad, just because you were so young that you became used to it being “normal”, and not knowing better.

You’re grown up. Use your damn brain.

PeterArching · 2013-02-13T16:06:21+00:00

I had my foreskin removed as an infant and please do not refer to what happened to me as anything other than what it was: genital mutilation.

Or else I will be highly offended.

vandramir · 2013-02-13T02:37:21+00:00

This is the problem. No one wants to acknowledge the fact that there is something wrong. Cosmetically you probably look fine. look at it objectively however and answer the question will I ever experience what sex feels like with out desensitized nerve endings? Accepting the answer will not fix anything for you, but people in the future can avoid the same fate.

Throwahoymatie · 2013-02-13T03:09:29+00:00

You are mutilated. :(

I'm sorry man, and I know it's sometimes called an insensitive thing to say. But infant circumcision is the very definition of mutilation.

If you have a problem with this, take it up with the English language.

I'm mutilated too. It pisses me off. It's why I spend so much effort and time trying to save baby boys from the same fate.

The absolute worst thing we can do for future generations of boys and men is to deny that we were mutilated and not talk openly about it.

invislvl4 · 2013-02-13T08:25:29+00:00

I too was cut as a baby due to my mothers religion. I'll admit I feel mutilated and pissed off.

TiberiusBostwick · 2013-02-13T08:36:13+00:00

I just posted about this yesterday in another thread, and I feel a certain way.

My parents had the procedure done as an infant and I've never known any different. While it would have been nice to be able to choose, I couldn't, and there is not much reason to dwell on it. I don't understand how people can get super angry at their parents about it 20-25-30 years after the fact, but to each their own I guess.
I asked my parents about it when I was young... the differences. Why they did it etc at about 10 or 11. Maybe I had the time to come to acceptance? I'm not sure.

I don't feel the urge to be an activist about it. It doesn't really upset me to be honest, but I would always agree to more choice and a move away from these outdated religious practices.

I'm not really bothered by any such discussion on the subject. I just do not consider myself a victim or mutilated. That is ridiculous, and do not take such opinions seriously.

blueoak9 · 2013-02-13T17:56:19+00:00

" I don't think of myself as mutilated,"

Well, that's you. You don't want to eb called mutilated? Fine. Others do? Fine.

Are you expecting others to restrict how they describe their own experiences based on how it might conflict with your description of yours?

Mercurycandie · 2013-02-13T00:55:59+00:00

I completely agree. The extremes that some people take this debate is ridiculous; never before had I even thought that being insecure about my circumcised penis could be possible, but it seems every single discussion about it is aimed to make me feel absolutely terrible about it.

chocoboat · 2013-02-13T08:04:39+00:00

Mutilation or maiming is an act of physical injury that degrades the appearance or function of any living body, sometimes causing death.

By definition, what happened to you was mutilation. It is a harsh word and I can understand if you don't personally want to use it. But MRAs will continue to use it because strong, clear terms like that need to be used in order to get people to understand that "oh it's just a little snip, everyone does it" is not an OK mindset to have.

MaK_Ultra · 2013-02-13T10:07:48+00:00

Hey OP I understand where you are coming from. I even had some dude try to deny me my own subjective feelings about it. Not to mention some other dude that was insisting circumcised men are unable to enjoy sex. Just about every guy that was ok with being circumcised was downvoted to the bottom. It just shows how intolerant this subreddit can be.

I think you will find my post and discussion interesting. Would you want to uncircumcise yourself?

rightsbot · 2013-02-13T00:50:17+00:00

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ghebert001 · 2013-02-13T01:06:51+00:00

Okay sure. Does amputated make you feel any better? Either way both are accurate based on the dictionary definitions.

Collective82 · 2013-02-13T03:25:42+00:00

I didn't care before and I still don't care but I'm getting tired of the rhetoric saying I'm not what I was or could have been. I'm circumcised and I don't care. Quit telling me I should. It's the same as telling me I should care about every female issue in my view.

subjectiveoco · 2013-02-13T09:17:17+00:00

I chose to be circumcised when I was 20 years old to get rid of slight phimosis. Honestly, there have been zero negative consequences- except for the bumpy recovery period, but that comes with any surgery. As a person who has experienced sex with and without foreskin, I'm telling you: it's the same. The orgasm is the same. Peeing is the same. Masturbation is the same.

Sure male circumcision is mutilation, but it's not harmful... at all. Not only did I go through it as an adult which I doubt many people here have, I researched this shit for months before I made the decision. I talked to my doctor (male) and my urologist (also male) for weeks about it. I don't know what to say... but MRA's information is wrong. I read all the stuff posted by anti-circumcision groups and brought it up with my doctors and none of it turned out to be true. I mean, I talked to experienced medical professionals who laughed at what I showed them and knew they were myths... and they were right about how harmless the procedure would be.

I am definitely in support of banning infant circumcision, that's a question of individual choice. But arguing that circumcision has harmed your penis? It's just not true.

mikesteane · 2013-02-13T11:57:24+00:00

Sorry, but you have been mutilated. Using euphemisms helps apologists for this practice which really ought to be banned. I am sorry that my usage of the word upsets you, but the important think is to outlaw the practice.

2013-02-13T12:34:55+00:00

You do not know your own history son.

http://cirp.org/

http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/maimonides/

I will not disparage you for how you feel, but please educate yourself so you can start feeling a little better about yourself.

Stephen1985 · 2013-02-13T12:49:50+00:00

I have also been feeling this way, every time I hear about the mutilation that was done to me I feel like a lesser person.

I agree given the choice I would probably not have had it done but now it's done it's done. I don't want to think of myself as mutilated. It's already bad enough that I know I'm probably not enjoying sex as much as I would have.

Tusse · 2013-02-13T22:54:32+00:00

Ok, what should we call what happened to you instead?

And how long will it take until someone gets upset about the new official term and demands that everyone changes their language on pain of jail time for 'discrimination'?

4man · 2013-02-14T09:08:51+00:00

I have my scars, not all of them were received voluntarily. They don't mutilate me, they remind me of what I have survived. However, as much as I love my parents, they mutilated my penis when I was too young to defend myself. Now it is a scar and it reminds me of something I can never forget - that men must stand up and defend those most needing protection because women will not do it for us and we should not expect that they will.

StarFscker · 2013-02-13T03:49:52+00:00

You're one person amongs millions who've been circumcised, and you don't talk for all of us. I'm circumcised. We call it genital mutilation because that is what it is, it is the mutilation of infant genitals.

salient_punt · 2013-02-13T06:19:47+00:00

It might help you if you stop being so fucking sensitive, mate.

Riesea · 2013-02-13T17:07:47+00:00

redditor for 1 year

5 posts outside this sub-reddit and only one page worth of comments in general.

I call troll.

2013-02-13T21:18:06+00:00

of course some of us are proud of being circumcised and want it to stay safe, legal and optional.

salient_punt · 2013-02-13T01:49:47+00:00

Fuck em'. Mine's done me proud.

Edgemere · 2013-02-13T17:37:25+00:00

This has also gotten me too- I'm a christian, and also, I've never really had a problem with being circumcised, I find it aesthetically more pleasing. And I'm GLAD it was done before my recorded memories started. But that makes me a minority among MRA's, right?

Elsanti · 2013-02-13T02:49:16+00:00

So what? I grew up and haven't had a worse life experience for it. It has never once been an issue. It has never affected anything I wanted to do. Sex feels great. Everything still works.

I also pierced ears and nipples, I guess that is more mutilation going on too right?

People don't like it? I don't care. Doesn't bother me either way. Calling me out and telling me I should feel bad? They can fuck right off.

buzz7441 · 2013-02-13T02:58:20+00:00

i don't mind being circumcised i actually would have wanted it done if i had not have as a baby

Awkward_Robot_Orgy · 2013-02-13T00:54:04+00:00

No. I will call it by what it is. If that puts you offside, well drink a cup of concrete and harden up. It's the truth. Just because you can't accept that fact isn't my problem.

purplepowerpete · 2013-02-13T01:07:46+00:00

Compared to the Men's Rights that should be fought for this is a complete non issue.

Title	Please don't call me mutilated anymore
Author	dvdchstr
Upvotes	69
Comments	278
Date	February 13, 2013 12:50 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/18evih/please-dont-call-me-mutilated-anymore/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/please-dont-call-me-mutilated-anymore.1606162 https://theredarchive.com/post/1606162

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