Can Bluepill explain these rising issues?

[deleted] · 2016-09-19T23:29:23+00:00

[permanently deleted]

wombatinaburrow · 2016-09-19T12:19:35+00:00

Divorce rates spiked in the 80s, when we got "no fault divorce" (in a nutshell; you didn't have to prove infidelity/insanity/violence/etc... any more; you could just say "we don't work any more" and divorce). They have levelled out since then.

future_space_boobs · 2016-09-19T12:47:06+00:00

Divorce rates peaked 20-30 years ago, they are on the decline. Marriage rates, however, are lower than ever and I see this as a good thing. People no longer feel obligated to get married like they once did, so the marriages that do happen have a much higher likelihood of long-term success. Let's be honest, long-term monogamy isn't for everyone and it's better for everyone if those folks not get married at all (or wait until much later in life when they're ready to settle down) than for them to go through multiple divorces.

Birth rates are down because, for the first time in history, we have reliable and accessible birth control. People are having the kids they want and far fewer "oops" babies. This is good from a societal perspective... crime rates have plummeted since abortion was legalized. Sadly, unwanted kids (especially those born into poverty) are much more likely to become derelict adults than kids born to parents who want and planned for them.

Happiness is a more complicated issue. I personally blame that on social media and increasing consumerist demands to be "happy." it wasn't too long ago that if you had one car, 3 TV channels, and could take a family vacation every 5-10 years you were doing damn well for yourself. But in order to keep our post-war economy humming along we have been increasingly normalizing what were once the trappings of the upper class as necessities. And add social media to the equation where were constantly comparing ourselves to our friends' highlight reels and it's a recipe for a lot of miserable people.

Princeso_Bubblegum · 2016-09-19T12:53:40+00:00

People are given more personal autonomy in the modern world, and thus are less likely to be forced into marriages and have children, and get out of shitty marriages.

this isn't a bad thing from our perspective

VermiciousKnidzz · 2016-09-19T16:27:06+00:00

Erin Pizzey, founder of the charity Refuge, added: 'The hard-won freedom of choice has imprisoned women. I just see an exhausted generation trying to do it all.'

i know everyone and their dog likes to blame everything on feminism without thinking about it, but this idea is so widespread to everyone, to me it's more to do with the disappearing middle class, the fact that college grads are much less likely to get good jobs, that people have to work much harder to support themselves, that most fields are 1000% more competitive than 40 years ago, etc

life these days is just harder. i say that's just what capitalism gives way to. blaming it on women's progress is just silly and misogynistic and a slap in the face to women that had to work hard in the face of patriarchy.

'If you enjoy your job and it's a fulfilling career, that is a positive choice.. but if it's not, it's almost in some ways that we got it all, then found that actually it wasn't quite what we wanted.'

lol welcome to the real world where you need to work to survive and not everyone loves their jobs and a failing economy makes everyone work harder.

[deleted] · 2016-09-19T12:30:24+00:00

Feminism and general sociatal evolution has led to more personal freedom. People who don't want to have kids don't have them anymore. People who have enough of their marriage get divorced. It used to be much more of a taboo, but itsn't anymore.
The fact that people have generally more expendable income also helps to grant them more freedom of choice in their lives.

In the last 40 years, men and women have been increasingly unhappy.

Unhappiness can also be relative. Income inequality has soared in the US, so relative to the top percentage, people are doing worse, even though they are on average doing better than 50 years ago.

FairlyNaive · 2016-09-19T12:31:20+00:00

Well, Im not blue, but I can provide the alternative to the official red pill answere to your questions. I honestly dont think putting the blame on feminism for declining birth rates, happiness and marriage success (as well as giving it credit for a lot of things, but thats a topic for another day) is valid. This movement was only a sympthom of changing human condition due to technological progress, thats why we didnt see similar things in prior history, and thats why this changes would occur regardless of the movement existance.

As for the happiness - basically the choice makes us unhappy. In situations where we are just given one option to satisfy our needs or three options, even if one or more of three satisfies our needs better, the first the situation will leave the person happy more often. The ability to change our choice later decrease our happiness even more. And if there is one thing our modern economy is good ar - it is providing people with choice.

BiggerDthanYou · 2016-09-19T12:06:32+00:00

Well the problem here is that although TRP offers an explanation it's such a simplistic one that it's basically useless and because they can't understand statistics they offer very misleading information.

Divorce rates aren't even increasing. They've been the highest in the 80s, but saw a decline since then. But because TRPers never update their stereotypes they don't mention that fact and because everything is about sex for them they don't even see all the other reasons for why people nowadays are unhappier like the economy and the job market.

vitringur · 2016-09-19T16:24:14+00:00

Economics can explain this trend pretty well.

Marriage is no longer an efficient institution since there is no longer a relative advantage of being a man in the work force.

Jobs are not labour intensive anymore and household chores are no longer time intensive.

Thus, there is no need for people to stick around when the romance fades.

Don't fool yourself into believing that people were somehow "more happy" in the past.

Divorce just wasn't an option. People have always married because of the benefits of the institution. The benefits just aren't that great in developed countries.

hauswyfetechno · 2016-09-19T13:28:08+00:00

Neoliberal capitalism and the concomitant atomization of society.

CrazyTom54 · 2016-09-19T14:38:33+00:00

The main reason why is when we got no fault divorce in the 80's, divorce spiked and now it is beginning to level out. Another reason why is because some people get married way to quickly and don't actually know a lot about each other. Another reason that can be considered is that people don't really know how a marriage works and feel that they made a mistake and will try to back out.

Something that also could have to do with higher divorce rates is because there is no longer as much social pressure or religious pressure to stay in a marriage, especially if it is a bad one. A lot of bad marriages are formed and people no longer feel any obligation to try and stay in the marriage.

The key thing though that probably plays the biggest part in this is that religious and social pressure is much less prevalent now and doesn't has as much influence on our lives as it used to.

theglassistoobig · 2016-09-19T14:53:45+00:00

https://youtu.be/HKgZf-m_PjE

Not just a bluepill answer

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Uthanak8 · 2016-09-19T13:46:54+00:00

From reading the 40 page essay in the sidebar of Theredpill titled: "The misandry bubble." I learned the underlying reason for why marriages were institutionalized by religion and why this in the older days served as good compromise benefiting men and women.

The essay uses example like the 5000 years of marriage history of India as reason for India being a rising and thriving country now.

If you agree with this article and believe marriage was more beneficial for most men and women, do you think a return to our roots (Winding back the clock say... 100 years?) would do well to help the declining North American society? (And to an extent Japan, Australia and some Europeans country.)

If you disagree with the article, can you state why and how? Once again, thank you for the much surprising, polite and eloquent answers so far. Kind regards.

ApatheticAnarchy · 2016-09-20T01:47:42+00:00

Because they can.

That's why.

ADW83 · 2016-09-20T02:22:09+00:00

I THINK that Chad and the top 20% of men are MORE happy, actually.

DashneDK2 · 2016-09-20T03:32:51+00:00

I'd say a lot of the unhappiness come from increased freedom. Ironically. People have more choices and there's no longer a clear path to take through life. This make a lot of people insecure. A lot of people just want to have simple unassuming lives, a normal blue collar job, couple of kids, husband/wife, watch sports with the friends, etc.

These days everybody has to invent themselves from scratch. I think this development falls heavier on women than men. More women would choose the older more secure world over the modern more free world. Feminism has been part of the process which brought in this new state of affairs. But feminism has been pioneered by women who did well with all this freedom.

COPCO2 · 2016-09-20T15:17:50+00:00

First off, rates peaked in the 80's and have been declining since.

And I think that it's primarily because it's now easier to divorce, particularly from abusive relationships. People aren't shamed into staying with someone who hurts them anymore.

Birth rate has lowered across the board.

This is what happens in every first-world nation where people spend more time on themselves (education, career, etc) before having kids. When people have money and education, they delay having children.

I have never come across a TRP tactic that's meant to increase fertility rates. In fact, their entire attitude is to pump and dump and that children are used by women to trap men in relationships. If anything, TRP tactics would make birth rates decline further.

SipsSparklingWater · 2016-09-19T12:03:15+00:00

It has something to do with feminism, that is the answer you are looking for and it is probably correct.

Feminism can give a lot of women identity crisis issues causing them to be unsure about what they want. They are told by the media to be submissive little flowers and then the next day they are told to be strong career women.

So they have to some how do both. This can lead to identity issues.

ThatGreekLady · 2016-09-19T13:56:55+00:00

1)Women have to work AND also take care of the kids and the household. Too much stress.

2)Unmarried women might get lonely later in life and regret not creating a family. I suppose there are more unmarried people now that 50 years ago.

The low birth rates are mostly because of birth control and also the decline of marriage, I guess.

SkinnySweaty · 2016-09-19T15:52:30+00:00

I don't agree that divorce rates are up and anyone who says that needs to provide a lot of significant research to sway my opinion on that. Research stating that divorce rates are down or stable is much too prevalent to be ignored unless you have already made up your mind on the topic and are cherry picking data.

I am really curious what OP is implying with these stats. Is this a hint that we should repeal no-fault divorces, alimony, and child support so that women are economic hostages in many marriages and cannot leave?

Please be clear with what you are actually saying.

Title	Can Bluepill explain these rising issues?
Author	Uthanak8
Upvotes	20
Comments	213
Date	September 19, 2016 11:54 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/53h660/can_bluepill_explain_these_rising_issues/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/can-bluepill-explain-these-rising-issues.272887 https://theredarchive.com/post/272887

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