Does TRP resent how men are expected to be providers? Does feminism not remedy this?

IamTheWalkingMenu · 2016-12-08T23:15:33+00:00

Here's a thing I read on TRP that I never forgot. It advised that guys should ask a girl to meet for coffee but arrive at least 15 minutes before the appoints time and get your coffee. That way, when she gets there she has to buy her own coffee.

This was applauded as absolute genius. So I guess there's your answer. $6 too much to risk

GuitarsAreGettingOld · 2016-12-08T23:55:59+00:00

"women don't really love men, they only love what the men can provide".

This sentence doesn't work without context. Standing alone, this is not what trp is teaching.

It's true: "Men value love, women love value."

But there is more to it than just "providing" in the sense of money. If the sentence really means that women love you for providing than it is blatantly wrong from a trp standpoint.

Basically trp teaches that women love you based on the respect they have for you. She loves you when she can respect you in different areas, (she looks up to you) while men love coming from a protector-angle. Being able to look up to her plays no role in a man's love for a woman.

That's what we mean when we say that women love conditional and men love unconditional.

Simple being a provider doesn't get you enough respect unfortunately. Even less when she provides for herself.

blackheartblackmask · 2016-12-08T23:08:24+00:00

It is logically inconsistent, but I think more men would be fine to provide if they were with a loyal, feminine and beautiful wife, which is something feminism can only make worse.

KrispyMcSockington · 2016-12-09T04:20:11+00:00

TRP is pretty negative about feminism to say the least, but doesn't it take some of the burden off men to be "providers"? Doesn't it instill some confidence that the woman you're with, who can provide for herself, isn't just after your money?

This would be fine if women held up their end of the bargain, as in they would still love and desire men for more than what they can provide even after women are able to provide for themselves. Unfortunately, women still prefer to marry equal or up. Marrying up is ideal. What this means is that a female office worker is probably not going to marry a cleaner. She will want to marry another office worker or, preferably, someone who earns more.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2016/04/13/why-are-men-still-paying-for-women-dates/RT3zjhcqD42cnJdLnOKZEL/amp.html

Some quotes:

For example, the woman may offer to pay for her own meal, but that offer can be disingenuous: Often, she expects him to decline. If he takes her at her word, he’s failed the test.

“If I let you pay for dinner, it means you have a chance for another date.” She’ll allow me to pursue her again, and that permission comes at a price.

Some try to rationalize this arrangement by stipulating that whoever issued the invitation should pay. The trouble is that the man is still typically expected to do the asking. Moreover, both men and women seem to believe that it’s his responsibility to reach out after a first date to indicate continued interest.

For all this talk that she can provide for herself, women still mostly prefer he pays for dates. I am no feminist and this article leans that way (mentioning gender pay gaps like they still exist in the old days), but the fact that women still prefer he pays for dates means that all we have done is given women more money and reduced the pool of eligible men. We have raised the bar for men making it even harder for them to get a partner and women are finding an increasing number of men unattractive as the provider role has been stripped. What we are asking them is to out earn women without creating a pay gap, or to earn equally but men must spend more on women than women spend on men.

Feminism is about freeing women from gender roles and rewarding them for it. They no longer need a man for financial support. This is great. Every person should be independent and able to take care of themselves. But feminism has not helped many men be free of their roles. In fact, men are not rewarded for not accepting their gender roles. They are rewarded for taking the lead, paying, being masculine and being attractive, not for deferring responsibility or expecting women to approach and to pay. Unless he is ridiculously attractive, hr won't get much attention from women for being passive. If he somehow manages to get a woman, he then has to match or out earn her for her to be happy.

Marriages where women earn more are also more likely to end in divorce. We can debate whether men feel threatened or whether women feel he isn't pulling his weight, but clearly we are not comfortable with flipping the script. And so it begs the question: should women sacrifice their financial independence for a potentially happier/longer lasting relationship/marriage? That is a question only women can answer but I believe they should also consider the expectations they and feminism have set and the impact this can have on families and relationships. Women can not have it all. No one can be in two places at once: at the boardroom and at home to spend time with their kids. So they either have to accept that men were not and are not having it all (work is not fun) and that they cannot have it all, or continue to be part time moms and workers in a failed bid to have it all.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/07/why-women-still-cant-have-it-all/309020/

LewisCross · 2016-12-08T22:30:35+00:00

I can't speak for all TRPers.

I don't resent being expected to provide for a woman who actually respects me, is grateful for my provision, gives a shit about me, and reciprocates with pornstar level sex.

I very much resent being expected to provide for a woman who disrespects me, is an ungrateful bitch, doesn't care about me, and refuses to fuck me.

Many men will not provide for women who scream at the top of their lungs how they don't need men and can do it for themselves. Many men don't see a need to provide for women who have little to offer except heavily used bodies.

justtypingcuz · 2016-12-09T00:11:37+00:00

I think trp hates feminism because its turned most modern women into undesirable disrespectful sluts that aren't worth providing for to begin with.

Leinadro · 2016-12-09T00:49:14+00:00

No the complaint is that feminism encourages women to go for what they want but still expect men to prove themselves by being providers.

I dont totally agree with that but I do think feminism supports some double standards in the form of picking and choosing which gender roles should be tossed and which ones should be adhered to.

I meam by this logic feminism shouldnt have a problem with MGTOW because its just men deciding to leave the dating world altogether and just work on themselves for themselves.

DucksCanDance · 2016-12-08T22:39:21+00:00

you're missing the point , TRP says that providership and raw sexuality are the two ways to attract a woman, typically she'll go for raw sexuality in youth and providership as she gets older. By understanding what attracts her about each, ideally you can figure out how to attract women

I think the sentence you quoted is just trying to disabuse men of romantic notions of love , that shitll make you a whiney little bitch

obstinatebeagle · 2016-12-09T01:56:32+00:00

doesn't [feminism] take some of the burden off men to be "providers"? Doesn't it instill some confidence that the woman you're with, who can provide for herself, isn't just after your money?

No. Feminism doesn't teach self-sufficiency at all, it teaches women to develop a greater entitlement and victimhood complex. For example, feminism teaches that women are always the "victim" in a marriage, so are entitled to more property in a divorce and to alimony, instead of being totally financially self-sufficient.

"women don't really love men, they only love what the men can provide"

That's more accurately described as they only love what they can take from the man, because there is little to no sense of gratitude for anything that is "provided".

If you think that fundamentally feminism fosters any meaningful self-sufficiency you are pretty deluded. Look at what they keep lobbying for - more entitlements, more quotas, more govt handouts, more special privileges and advantages under the law. They just keep putting their hands out and demanding more, and the govt keeps caving in and giving it. If that's self-sufficiency then I don't what you would have to do to qualify as welfare-dependent.

shadowrangerfs · 2016-12-09T10:45:17+00:00

It's doesn't help men though. Even those high earning women want high earning men. Most successful women look for men who make as much or more than she does. That's why we see articles about "why can't successful women find men". Most of them talk about finding men who are "on their level". Reddit is literally the ONLY place that I've ever seen women talk about having and interest in significantly less successful men. It's the only place that I see women show an interest in having a house husband. There are a few women who will financially date down, but for the most part it's just made it so that men now need to have even MORE.

SexyMcSexington · 2016-12-09T08:42:34+00:00

I don’t know about the TRP side of things, but feminism has attacked men for their traditional gender roles without offering a viable alternative.

exit_sandman · 2016-12-09T09:41:57+00:00

but doesn't it take some of the burden off men to be "providers"?

No. That's just a pretend reason. At the end of the day, all the feminism in the world hasn't changed the fact that women want men who make money - it just raised their standards because now, earning money themselves, they want a men who makes more.

ThrowawayCactus6012 · 2016-12-08T23:36:21+00:00

TRP is pretty negative about feminism to say the least, but doesn't it take some of the burden off men to be "providers"?

Yeah, that's what they said back in the 60s and 70s. But it was just a bait-and-switch. Just a lot of empty talk.

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pissedoffman1 · 2016-12-09T08:45:24+00:00

Would that be the same feminism that tells women that they don't have to support a basement dwelling loser? That it is perfectly reasonable to expect a man to earn at least as much as she does, because "right to preference"?

pissedoffman1 · 2016-12-09T14:41:24+00:00

sorta like the whole "child support/custody inequality" thing.

that inequality is only there because of the age-old stereotype that women are dependent caretakers and men are professional working ppl. gender roles suck yo

iponi · 2016-12-09T01:17:09+00:00

No, I think it's a good thing that men are expected to be providers. The trouble with feminism is that it changed this in one direction. Women get all the sexual freedom, careers, reproductive rights, divorce advantages, and child support, but men are by and large still expected to be the providers. Arguably it even got worse, because women are earning more yet they still want a man who earns even more.

fuxdpus · 2016-12-09T00:33:21+00:00

The problem with the "provider" thing is that a lot of women make their own money (or are supported by daddy-dot-gov). So there's less need for male providers unless the guy is bringing in big bucks. Even then women with hard working upper middle class income earning husbands get miserable and spend all their time complaining.

Title	Does TRP resent how men are expected to be providers? Does feminism not remedy this?
Author	n1jntje
Upvotes	9
Comments	253
Date	December 8, 2016 10:24 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5h9zus/does_trp_resent_how_men_are_expected_to_be/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/does-trp-resent-how-men-are-expected-to-be.271405 https://theredarchive.com/post/271405

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