The terms 'low value' and 'high value'

InjectAdrenochrome · 2023-04-19T08:46:31+00:00

Its dehumanizing language but it's meant to be a qualifying amount of the attention and desire you elicit in the opposite sex. Essentially if you are successful with women you are considered high value as a man

gymbronyc718 · 2023-04-19T10:59:02+00:00

Here is the problem with value? What is high value? By your definition someone who contributes a lot to society. Let's say you had a baby. A baby contributes zero to society and is actually a drain on social resources. If your baby worthless then?

What if your best friend or brother or sister were a bit of a bum and didn't have a great job and sort of coasted through life? Are they worthless? Do they have no value? I bet you wouldn't think that.

See, measuring peoples value and worthiness is a choice. It's a value system that you choose to employ and measure yourself and others by. On PPD human value is measured only in a person sexual success with the other sex. A sexually unsuccessful guy is worthless, low value, subhuman and a sexually successful Chad is high value, worthy and an Uber mensch.

But it's all ridiculous, because when you use this value system, you will always lose. Nobody knows who is the man who fucks the most in the world, buts it's probably no one here. Hence, most guys will find a reason to feel themselves low value, worthless losers.

It's a losing proposition. Instead give up this value system and value yourself just because you choose to. Just because it feels good to feel good about yourself. And guess what? Once you start valuing yourself, so will others.

Gr4nd45 · 2023-04-19T08:55:43+00:00

Yeah, some people around here use those terms, thinking they are so smart.

In reality, these terms are mostly meaningless, because they are inaccurate. I've seen way too many people get with other people, that SUPPOSEDLY should be way out of their "league". I've personally gotten hit on by women, that according to these guys, should have utterly no interest in me, in my life.

There's a hell of a lot more to attraction and relationships, than the typical criteria of SMV.

This is not to say, that you shouldn't put some effort into improving yourself, becoming the better version of yourself. But don't pay too much attention to the "SMV" talks here.

TheOrangeGhost · 2023-04-19T08:56:31+00:00

My honest theory is that the reason there is the " no one gives me a chance crowd." Is because too many people are dating for status and not dating for happiness. This creates 3 major problem. 1. People have unrealistic expectations for themselves and there potential mates 2. People focus too much on quantitative traits and not nearly enough on qualitative traits. 3. People view dating as a competition rather than just having fun with another person. My advice is just date to have fun and hopefully find "your person." Don't give a damn what anyone else thinks.

wtknight · 2023-04-19T11:14:20+00:00

For the purpose of this sub, it's based upon male sexual desirability, or female relationship desirability. Some men are more sexually desirable than others. Some women are more desired for relationships than others. One can think idealistically that everybody equally has a chance to have sex, or have relationships with the people they desire, but in real life, this is often not the case. Those who have trouble with this therefore have "lower value" for whatever reasons.

WowYouMustBeJoking · 2023-04-19T10:15:43+00:00

It is used in the context of the sexual marketplace analogy. Therefore think of them as prices of goods in the market. In that sense personal preferences don't matter, what matters is the superposition of all personal preferences. Basically, what the item will sell for. For example, I can have my personal preference of not valuing a new iphone enough to pay $1k, but if it sells for that much, then that's it's cost/value.

Low and high value are indicators of performance on the market as a whole, not of whether you're attractive to a given person. Basically, think that every person rates you, then you calculate the average of that. So yeah, some people will value you less and some more than your market value.

hopfield · 2023-04-19T12:34:05+00:00

Aren't values different to everyone and their personal preferences as well?

No.

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-04-19T13:44:10+00:00

Are we really 'rating' people by some kind of values? Aren't values diffrent to everyone and their personal preferences as well? I know there are some general pieces of trash out there, but most people have redeeming factors so I don't get the term 'low value'.

There's an obsession with treating dating as a purely economic market and, as such, everyone must have an assigned value. Red pillers routinely describe someone's value as being objective, which is of course nonsense. Different people value different things at different levels. You can also observe this by simply asking them what the value of a hypothetical person is. You'll get a bunch of deflections because, of course, the question can't be answered.

Even the "economics" of dating is just an attempt to add a veneer of objectivity to one of the most subjective parts of society. For example, red pillers frequently talk about how women control the market and how easily women across the board can get dates, but then they will also talk about how women's standards are too high. But if women control the market and have enormous demand, then according to economics, their standards aren't high enough.

iwasbornabat · 2023-04-19T15:55:01+00:00

These terms, as well as the 0-10 appearance rating everyone seems to be obsessed with these days, are a result of the complete removal of subjectivity from dating-related discussions. At least on the Internet, so many seem to have completely forgotten that people can have different opinions, preferences and tastes. So one's anecdotal experience with women becomes "all women are X", and the same goes for the "all men are X" crowd.

Reality, on the other hand, is as usual much more nuanced and complex. Although there might indeed be some characteristics that are commonly (but not universally, no matter what these posts say) thought to be indicators of a high value partner, those preferences can vary wildly from individual to individual.

It's all a bit saddening IMO.... I see so many young people confining themselves into a box, "I'm a 7", "I'm a 4" etc., without ever considering that they might be more than that singular number and that, even if we were to take such ratings seriously, different people would rate them differently.

KayRay1994 · 2023-04-19T16:40:38+00:00

it is dehumanizing and is arguably a direct result of capitalism manifesting itself in the cultural zeitgeist. The issue is what defines “high value” is often both subjective and aren’t reflective of a person’s moral character.

Ex. Two redpillers can debate on if someone like Andrew Tate (and he is the best example for this because he is so glaringly bad as a person), and one can think he’s high value while someone else can think he’s low value. That being said, the “high value” argument for Tate holds merit because he’s rich, “a chad”, works out, etc - there is no mention of his moral character here and in this instance “high value” is reduced to aesthetics and material value. Sounds familiar?

In the same vain, you could have a full on minimalist who doesn’t need or want much to get by, is more invested in people and the moment and has a life that’s focused outside of the traditional means of success - but at the same time this person could be happy and loved by those around them. Many who use the value terms would define this person as “low value”, even though said person’s priorities simply don’t align with what we’ve decided is low and high value. This person could be far happier and more fulfilled than the “high value” person, but that doesn’t matter as their identity is reduced to a price tag.

The issue that I have with the term “high value” is that it has nothing to do with internal goodness, it has nothing to do with moral standing or contribution to one’s community or even family (in some cases) - there is also something to be said about defending people under “value” and the idea of it all being a market as a whole that’s more indicative to, as i said before, capitalism as a culture.

Reasonable_Listen514 · 2023-04-20T04:54:25+00:00

"High value" and "low value" in manosphere or "pill" subs are used to describe value in the dating and relationship market, not as a measure of self worth, or value to society. There are certain characteristics that a vast majority of people find attractive (high value traits) and those a vast majority of people find unattractive (low value traits).

Unfortunately, a man who has a good heart and is always there for friends and family would still be considered low value in the sexual market if he is 5'4", overweight, socially awkward, and balding. That doesn't make him a low value human being. But the reality is that a vast majority of women would never ever consider him as a sexual option.

While a womanizing sociopath who may be a convicted felon would be considered high value if he is in shape, 6'4", and rich, because despite him being a terrible human being, he would be highly attractive to, and sought after by most women.

It's just accepting reality and having an honest conversation about intersexual dynamics.

ohdiddly · 2023-04-19T09:59:23+00:00

It’s a really dumb term imo. The men that people here describe as ‘high value’ are men who would be complete turn offs for me. I don’t think they understand that what people find valuable in a partner is completely subjective.

Ok_Entrepreneur2931 · 2023-04-19T08:57:52+00:00

Aren't values diffrent to everyone and their personal preferences as well?

Yes but there's a lot of similarity in what people value. For instance, most people value a car more than an apple, so cars costs significantly more than an apple.

Same logic applies to someone's "value" as a sexual/romantic partner. A short balding Indian janitor with a stutter and a recessed chin might be considered attractive by some woman, somewhere on this planet. But I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of women would not.

RP-MJ · 2023-04-19T09:27:58+00:00

Value=what you bring to Society/people

If you bring nothing then yes you are low value

kvakerok · 2023-04-19T14:19:42+00:00

There are objective markers of high and low value. It has nothing to do with rating people, more to do with picking the best partner you can. What do you think makes one "a catch" and another to not even be considered date-able? These markers.

While values do fluctuate, there's typically a huge overlap in the laundry lists of requirements that women have for their ideal partner. This is the very reason why a tiny minority of men has sex with the majority of women on dating apps.

OmoshiroiKudamono · 2023-04-19T11:30:46+00:00

A "High Value Man" is HEAVILY PREFERRED by WOMEN in dating. A HVM has ALL of these traits.

Makes $100,000 a year (or more depending on location) ($100,000 in Omaha >> $100,000 in Silicon Valley)
Earned $100,000 CONSISTENTLY for 3-5 years. Most "athletes, rappers, and entertainers" are relevant for 1-2 years then disappear. The NFL means "Not for long."
"Resume" "Linked-In" level. I should look at your resume and KNOW what you do. No "entrepreneur." That is too broad. A good example is "10 years experience as senior engineering manager at IBM."
Useful to other HVM. Recognized as an HVM by other HVM
Has a network of HVM
Job is useful to society
Your job is legal

A High Value Woman (in SMV terms) is

Fit, feminine, friendly, and faithful.

Its HARDER to become an HVM. Its HARDER to return to being an HVF if she loses it.

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Opening_Pattern_301 · 2023-04-19T09:56:45+00:00

it simply makes reference to the amount of sexual attraction you get from the opposite sex at least for men, we still come from a culture where there was this notion that women only loved and had intimacy with the most valuable men because women were considered morally superior to men and such, you get what im talking about, the women are wonderful effect, so if a man is loved by women, that means he is a valuable man, so for the redpill, even if a guy contributes a lot to society, it means nothing if at the end of the day a thug is able to plow his future wife in the ass behind a dumpster and he gets the cozy leftovers, therefore he is low value, im sorry for such crude language but thats the way they talk about it, the whole redpill is influenced on the idea that men are less valuable than women and therefore being desired by them gives you the right to call yourself a man. So yes, a criminal who gets a lot of sexual attention is high value rather than the good stable husband provider who gets the "i cheated on you but i love you" treatment.

RightNowImReady · 2023-04-19T10:19:50+00:00

It's not that hard to understand

There's objective values and subjective values.

A very good looking guy can be considered attractive(objectively), yet not your type(subjectively).

For example, 9/10 women might find him attractive, 4/9 of those finds him very attractive. The 1 out of 10 woman that didn't find him attractive usually would find someone on the other spectrum of whatever he is (Masculine / Feminine) attractive/extremely attractive.

SMV is based on an objective scale and not a subjective one, therefore his SMV when it comes to looks would be rated very highly.

RP tends to focus on objective values for obvious reasons and BP tends to focus on more subjective ones. Optimally you want to take both into consideration but focusing on objective ones will lead you to more success in general as our example above showcased.

KirthWGersen · 2023-04-19T10:22:28+00:00

Value is in the eye of the beholder.

MasterTeacher123 · 2023-04-19T11:43:47+00:00

Everyone isn’t equal

throwawayofc1112 · 2023-04-19T12:58:20+00:00

I think low value is basically just another way of saying “loser.”

Hard_Corsair · 2023-04-19T13:14:37+00:00

Simple. Think of shoes. Shoes are subjective. Everyone has different feet with different functional needs. Everyone has opinions on what looks nice and what looks awful. Despite the high level of subjectivity, any pair of shoes available for sale has an objective price.

The same is true of people. Everyone can have a different assessment of your value, but at the end of the day you set your own value, and if you set it too high then nobody is interested. So, you assess your value lower and lower until you get results.

Billsandasonom · 2023-04-19T13:44:19+00:00

Theoretically everyone has different opinions so everyone's values are different but there are undoubtedly a set of core values that are commonly held by everyone of each sex despite individual differences of degree. There are weird women out there who prefer nonwhite socially awkward short men who aren't too goodlooking due to self esteem and security reasons and either on the skinny or chubby side but they are in the minority. Hence a tall jacked white man is well on his way to being deemed high value. It goes without saying some of these conventional values are subject to change over time as per the historical era and trends but things like height and frame or status are set in stone.

Reptheft · 2023-04-19T14:08:02+00:00

Aren't values diffrent to everyone

That's irrelevant, since what we're looking at is the trends. Certain traits on average are more sexually attractive than others.

I know there are some general pieces of trash out there, but most people have redeeming factors so I don't get the term 'low value'.

It's not a moral judgment. It's simply how attractive you are to the opposite gender.

kvakerok · 2023-04-19T14:19:42+00:00

There are objective markers of high and low value. It has nothing to do with rating people, more to do with picking the best partner you can. What do you think makes one "a catch" and another to not even be considered date-able? These markers.

While values do fluctuate, there's typically a huge overlap in the laundry lists of requirements that women have for their ideal partner. This is the very reason why a tiny minority of men has sex with the majority of women on dating apps.

Safinated · 2023-04-19T14:38:36+00:00

Those are terms coined and used by a minority population

Why let them define your reality?

relish5k · 2023-04-19T16:15:59+00:00

High value man = man who is attractive, has just shit together (decent or better income, can take care of himself, isn’t constantly out getting waisted with the boys), and is a “good guy” (polite, courteous, respectful, strong without being overbearing, flexible without be a pushover, loves his mama without being a mama’s boy)

High value women = feminine, not fat, not a single mom, low body count / not sexually permissive (according to this sub, this is not how I would define it necessarily)

ask_johnny_mac · 2023-04-19T16:44:28+00:00

It is simply a measure of the relative desirability of a man or woman. Don’t overthink it. A high value man is attractive, fit, has a good job, money in the bank, a good social network, is educated and therefore is high value to women who are looking for those things which is the vast majority of women, despite what some may say. ‘Contributing a lot to society’ is not relevant.

MistyMaisel · 2023-04-19T16:53:25+00:00

I think this honestly comes down to it's very difficult to communicate, quantify, or qualify the intangible things that draw people together. We can talk about shared values, proximity, pheromones, shared interests, but at the end of the day it is highly specific and individual what it is that causes that spark, that connection, and that affection to blossom and grow.

The other factor is that we know even if you have this intangible connection, it isn't actually enough to maintain a relationship against the storms of life. Most relationships don't fall apart from a lack of intangible connections. They fall apart from money, family, and sex. It takes more than fun and good feelings to create a vehicle which can persist through time.

Which in turn, means that since we cannot systematically break down the intangible quality and even if we could, we know it isn't enough to sustain a relationship, we end up focusing completely on tangible qualities in our advice and our estimations of high and low value. Thus, money, status, ambition, looks, functional mentally, and so forth become the easiest things to cover.

It's also because on some level, it's not very kind to tell someone that their tangibles are all there, but they're essentially unlovable for intangible reasons that none of us can explain how they can work on because it's just so obvious they suck, but not obvious how to change that.

TurtleDickSlap · 2023-04-19T17:46:36+00:00

Are we really 'rating' people by some kind of values?

Absolutely. To pretend that we don't look at things or people and compare them is pure idiocy.

cromulent_weasel · 2023-04-20T04:19:41+00:00

I think that 'high value' and 'low value' are basically meaningless concepts. All they really say is how many other people in a vacuum would be interested in you.

But you don't WANT to be in a relationship with 10,000 other people even if they would all be interested in you. You actually only want to be in a relationship with one.

I could see why cheaters want to be seen as 'high value' people, because that makes it much easier for them to find affair partners. I could see why insecure people don't want to be seen as 'low value' (because if they lose their current partner, will anybody else love them?).

Title	The terms 'low value' and 'high value'
Author	incredax
Upvotes	24
Comments	78
Date	April 19, 2023 8:37 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/12rm6in/the_terms_low_value_and_high_value/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-terms-low-value-and-high-value.1217789 https://theredarchive.com/post/1217789

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