I'm literally done watching people claim both extremes here. It's ok to disagree if it's 15% or 30% of men who have been involuntary celibate for the past year. But the bar can't be both so low that it's sad and so high that it's hopeless to try.
It should be possible to get some consensus here. Let's define terms,
If you are talking about your personal bar for who you date, make sure you specify that. You might have extremely high or low self esteem. The question here is what you observe is the bar for most women in your country, not the extremely attractive or unattractive women but the 20 to 80 percentile of desirable women.
When I say bar let's get precise.
Height - 50% of men in US would be taller than 5' 9". Would you say there is any objective height that's a bar? Would you just need to be taller than the girl you are interested in? Is that "high" bar?
Education - will men who doesn't have an undergrad degree struggle with most women? I think 30% of men have a bachelor's. So does this bar exist, is it low? High?
Looks - what percentage of men clear the looks threshold for most women? Is this bone structure, symmetry, and stuff that's immutable or hygiene, body fat, fashion, style and stuff that men can work on and aren't working on?
EQ - what levels of humor, confidence, assertiveness, leadership, self control, bravery, ambition, etc is the minimum required? How many men clear this charisma bar naturally? How many do you know that worked on it and developed these traits or skills?
Character - empathy, kindness, considerate, good communicator, listener, vulnerable, trustworthy, etc. Is this bar low? Are most women willing to compromise here? Is this the actual bar people are talking about when they say the bar is low?
Tell me what you mean by the bar and where you think it is right now.
Remember there are two meanings to saying the bar is too high or low. The first meaning is that it is so high that it excludes a large part of the population. That's a descriptive claim and I think we can and should be able to reach a consensus there.
The second meaning is that the bar is too high normatively. That morally speaking the pressure is too much on people due to the bar being so high. Or that the world shouldn't be such that the bar is so low and easy. That's a normative claim about the kind of world you want to live. Here we can disagree. Maybe some women think that we should collectively demand more from men, that the bar is "low" even if it excludes most men. Stuff like hygiene, kindness is so basic that it doesn't matter if most men fail to clear it, the bar can't be considered to be "high".
I think we should stick to the first meaning and get some consensus there before talking about the second type of discussion.
[–]NockerJoePervert Palpatine 43 points44 points45 points (27 children) | Copy Link
[–]Electrical_Coat_8714 17 points18 points19 points (22 children) | Copy Link
[–]Mark_FreedAI Safety needs You. Save the world today...[S] 6 points7 points8 points (20 children) | Copy Link
[–]Complex-Glass-8539 5 points6 points7 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Mark_FreedAI Safety needs You. Save the world today...[S] -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Complex-Glass-8539 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]festethefoole1 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Mark_FreedAI Safety needs You. Save the world today...[S] -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Alfalfa2-Throwaway 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Mark_FreedAI Safety needs You. Save the world today...[S] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]hemaristhysbe1 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
It’s subjective, and it’s weird that you’d believe there is a metric for getting laid or finding a partner. The most beautiful, symmetrical, muscular, tall man can walk into my office; if he believes in BigFoot he’s out. If he picks on others, is a racist, is devoutly religious, belongs to a political cult, is anti-science, a conspiracy theorist: out.
There is no man good looking enough to find attractive if he’s an idiot or a monster. Men don’t operate this way. They will have sex with or marry the worst woman on the planet if they want to see her naked.
[–]None0fYour8usinessNo Pill, No Problem 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]hemaristhysbe1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
I intended to write “conspiracy theories” but I didn’t feel that was worth the risk in these environs
[–]None0fYour8usinessNo Pill, No Problem 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]hemaristhysbe1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Is that like “we can’t dis prove their are ghosts, sooo…”
[–]None0fYour8usinessNo Pill, No Problem 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Mark_FreedAI Safety needs You. Save the world today...[S] -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]President-Mozzarella 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BeautifulTomatillo -3 points-2 points-1 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]BeautifulTomatillo 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]toasterchild 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]resultsmatter1 6 points7 points8 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]toasterchild 4 points5 points6 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]banjocatto 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]resultsmatter1 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]HazyMemory7 11 points12 points13 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]SignalThanks67661 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
19% of women in their 30s and 40s are single. Is that really so high? Seems like most are finding someone who meets their requirements.
[–]HazyMemory7 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Film2021 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Mark_FreedAI Safety needs You. Save the world today...[S] 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]HazyMemory7 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Mark_FreedAI Safety needs You. Save the world today...[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]resultsmatter1 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]HazyMemory7 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]banjocatto -2 points-1 points0 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]HazyMemory7 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]banjocatto 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]huhwhatokokReluctant Fatty Slayer, Eager Fatty Shamer 6 points7 points8 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]byebyecivilrights 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]IveGotIssues99181 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
How do you think this works for talk women? A 5'11" woman can only date dudes that are 6'6"?
[–]huhwhatokokReluctant Fatty Slayer, Eager Fatty Shamer 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Pilling_it 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]resultsmatter1 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Mark_FreedAI Safety needs You. Save the world today...[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Orange_PaisleyDowager Empress 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]gofigure62No Pill 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SignalThanks67661 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
I think when people say the bar is low they’re talking specifically about the incidences where men do something like babysit their own kids or make dinner once a year and then their wife/gf posts on social media something like “Mike is such a good dad, he babysat the kids while I went to the dentist today”. And you’re looking at it like, well they’re his fucking kids too. Why does he get a round of applause for basic decency. I haven’t heard people say the bar is low when discussing deciding who to date.
[–]Mark_FreedAI Safety needs You. Save the world today...[S] 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]BeautifulTomatillo 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Steyrox 4 points5 points6 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Mark_FreedAI Safety needs You. Save the world today...[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]webernickethy/thoust/them'st've 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]wtknight 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Mark_FreedAI Safety needs You. Save the world today...[S] -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]wtknight 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ruboyuri 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]IveGotIssues9918 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Blame_the_Muse{<my pussy tastes like pepsi cola>} 5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Immediate-Machine-18 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]peach_blossoms_ 3 points4 points5 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]peach_blossoms_ 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]PutThatMagicJumpOnMe1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
A STEM requirement lmao. I studied a "starbucks" field and am making more than any scientist as a lobbyist.
[–]peach_blossoms_ 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]dobrevariaPinkpilled 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]peach_blossoms_ 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Mark_FreedAI Safety needs You. Save the world today...[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]peach_blossoms_ 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Preme2 6 points7 points8 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]resultsmatter1 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]HazyMemory7 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]HoChiMinhDingDong 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]daddysgotanew 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]toasterchild 2 points3 points4 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]Alfalfa2-Throwaway 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]toasterchild 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Alfalfa2-Throwaway 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]daddysgotanew 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]toasterchild 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AelfredRex 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]ohheyhi99No Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]AelfredRex 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]ohheyhi99No Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Lift_and_LurkNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]throwaway316stunner 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Specialist-Action-33Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Coolio_Street_Racer 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]daddysgotanew 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]sarkington 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Mark_FreedAI Safety needs You. Save the world today...[S] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Runoutofideas777 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Immediate-Machine-18 -2 points-1 points0 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]HazyMemory7 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Immediate-Machine-18 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Mark_FreedAI Safety needs You. Save the world today...[S] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Mark_FreedAI Safety needs You. Save the world today...[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link