Why are people who want something different from the majority called liars?

ianturpiesmoustache · 2016-01-28T06:24:52+00:00

Individual women are often seen as spokespeople for the entire gender. The general assumption seems to be that we're all a homogeneous group rather than a bunch of different types of people who all happen to have vaginas. It happens with men, too, but it's not nearly as widespread.

There was a thread a while ago where women were asked to rate the bodies of a bunch of men in a picture. The ones who answered that they wanted the muscled-up image of masculinity that's coveted by TRP got upvoted to the top (and there weren't that many of them, either), and the rest of the responses were questioned and sometimes mocked. There was a guy who literally denied that women were telling the truth about their own preferences, and just pretending to like what they like to be contrary, or some nonsense.

On here I've been called a liar, told I'm wrong about what I prefer (lol) or don't understand my own preferences, that I haven't been with a "real man" and that's why I like the guys I do, that I only say it to make people think I'm a "snowflake", etc. But that doesn't tend to happen in real life - it's definitely more of an internet thing, and much more common in places relating to "the manosphere".

TheKickboxingGuy · 2016-01-28T06:15:43+00:00

This is compartmentalization. It's a defense mechanism that happens unconsciously in order to prevent cognitive dissonance. If we believe very strongly in a particular ideology, like Feminism for example, it is very difficult to accept that a self-proclaimed anti-feminist can be an equally good, equally right, and equally fair person. To reduce the mental stress that accompanies these sorts of vastly differentiating ideas, especially those integral to our self-worth and personal identity, we [as in people] will lump those who oppose us into categories like "liar," "misogynist," "abuser," sexist," "white-knight," "racist," "beta," and so on. This makes it easy to segregate opposing actions into good and bad, right and wrong, just and unjust.

This is a common attribute in PEOPLE, not just RedPill or BluePill, and both pills perpetuate this defensiveness towards each other regularly.

PollaTronante · 2016-01-28T07:26:00+00:00

This has happened to me when I mention aspects of a relationship to certain men. It doesn't matter how well I know someone or how long we've been dating, other guys will try to tell me 'uncomfortable truths' about how my boyfriend, whom they've never met, is secretly cheating on me because that's how 'all guys are.' It's dumbfounding.

Ghost_Hound · 2016-01-28T08:03:53+00:00

It bothers me too. That's why I list my pill distribution thusly in my flair. I don't hold anything to Universal truth because that sort of absolutist thinking is damaging.

It's safe in some cases to go with what the majority probably thinks and feels. While I know one drop dead gorgeous woman who outright prefers men who are short and chubby, it is a better numbers game to play if you're fit and whatnot.

I've been told I was a liar or didn't know what I wanted by women, straight men and gay men alike. So I get the frustration. However, I can also understand why things that are truly different are distrusted out of hand. If something doesn't fit the narrative it's a threat to the narrative. Everything from sexual preference to lifestyle to money management to music taste can and does illicit this response in some people.

stats135 · 2016-01-28T08:18:24+00:00

It is simple statistics. It is the classic example of when a patient tests positive for a uncommon condition. The chances are that it is more likely that the test resulted in a false positive than the patient actually having that uncommon condition. Have the uncommon condition as a "rare preference" and the test be "asking them the question" the statistics still apply. It is more probable that if someone says they have the rare preference, it is more likely that they are lying than that they actually have that preference.

Whisper · 2016-01-29T00:20:00+00:00

If you tell me you have a marble in your pocket, I will believe you.

If you tell me you have a diamond the size of a pigeon's egg in your pocket, I will ask you to show me.

If you tell me you have an elephant in your pocket, I will call you a liar.

bromance946 · 2016-01-28T06:44:27+00:00

It's strange, red pill presents itself as a bitter truth, as if all the pearls on the beach were really pieces of charcoal. You rub away at what looks like a pearl, and black charcoal is underneath. But there really are real pearls as well, and you would think, that a man who sees all the fake pearls for what they are would be all the more appreciative of the real pearl. You would expect him to rub hard against the real pearl to make sure it isn't charcoal to be sure, but provided that it really was a real pearl you would expect him to hold it up as precious. Instead he just insults it and prefers to wallow around in charcoal.

Papa_Rymski · 2016-01-28T07:48:19+00:00

if you want something different than what your gender typically wants or from what people typically want

What do most men / women typically want?

Can we get an example as I seem to have missed the memo.

sen--sen · 2016-01-28T14:18:39+00:00

i can only assume it's because the existence of something so different to what they've seen or want to believe is somehow challenging to the person calling you a liar. they're afraid, or angry, or confused (which happens a lot when you cling rigidly to an ideology and let it consume you). this is easy for people to fall into when they're young, too; it probably happened to most of us in one way or another in school (granted, perhaps not to the degree it's expressed here). some people grow to appreciate the beauty in all the different things people have to offer, some don't. oh well.

LucilioVanini · 2016-01-28T05:48:22+00:00

I haven't seen that. Are you mainly referring to what people on TRP say? That is not reflective of mainstream opinions out in the real world. If you genuinely want things women usually don't want, and you're not prevented from getting those things, who cares what people call you?

GuitarsAreGettingOld · 2016-01-28T12:55:34+00:00

It's like today in relationships and other areas of life, if you want something different than what your gender typically wants or from what people typically want, you're considered a liar

For me it's because of real-life experience.

I wouldn't call them liars. They believe that they really are different and want something different.

Then after a few years it turns out it was all just talk/daydreaming.

smokingmonkey420 · 2016-01-28T08:10:30+00:00

Herd mentality. Solipsism. Jealousy. Basically, irrational, fearful human emotion.

If you care so much about what other people desire for their lives, so long as it doesn't harm anyone else, you got mental problems.

DownedACoupleDowners · 2016-01-28T13:28:04+00:00

Why are people who want something different from the majority called liars?

Because it's a lot easier to judge others and pretend you're better than them than it is to accept others as individuals and respect their choices. Also it's just hard for some people to imagine someone who has a different thought process/biological and psychological make-up from themselves, so when they experience someone who doesn't cow-toe to the status-quo, they look for an easy way to justify it.

This obviously doesn't just play in gender dynamics either. For example, I'm a fan of obscure and experimental music, so people think I'm a hipster for not liking Fetti Whap. If I were gay, people would justify it by saying I choose to be gay because they couldn't possibly imagine what it's like for a man to be attracted to another man. My best friend at home - where I currently live, unfortunately, if you can call this place "home" at all - actually thinks people are hiding who they really are because they go to college and don't laugh at fart jokes.

On top of that, I think most people are threatened by individuality, almost taking it as if, since I'm doing something different from them, I'm implying they're doing something wrong, when most the time that's not the case. So defensiveness plays a part in this as well.

But mostly, it's just lack of empathy, and it's probably caused by the actual inability for most people to empathize rather than the unwillingness. We're so caught up in our own lives most of us can't stop and think about what's going on in everyone else's.

nomdplume · 2016-01-28T18:44:31+00:00

if you want something different than what your gender typically wants or from what people typically want, you're considered a liar or brainwashed.

I don't know if I would flat out call someone a liar or brainwashed, but I am deeply skeptical of such people, because, if all my studying and experience has taught me one thing, people, including people of each gender, tend to all be motivated in the same directions, by and for the same things.

Do true anomalies exist? Sure. But I also know that all humans experience a deep desire to feel "special", to feel "independent/separate", and to look good to themselves and others. It's part of our psychic development. Everyone is narcissistic to some degree, and only an anomaly would be devoid of those innate narcissistic tendencies (and they would be considered psychologically unhealthy as well).

Also, knowing what you actually want takes a tremendous amount of awareness, both internal and external. An awareness that most people do not have. At least, not all the time, or about everything going on in their lives. If people actually knew what they wanted in an objective, real way, there would be far less struggle and suffering in the world. There would be no "rat race", and there would be no such thing as the ongoing "pursuit of happiness." If we actually knew what would make us happy, for example, we would just go get that thing or do that thing or whatever, and we'd spend the rest of our lives happy. But that's not what happens.

Xemnas81 · 2016-01-28T22:43:28+00:00

They're not. RP strongly encourages women to focus on relationships even at her own professional expense; feminism strongly encourages women to focus on career and independence as to avoid abusive relationships. The rest of the world follows a generic blue pill different-strokes-for-different-folks approach.

hentaipolice · 2016-01-29T00:02:03+00:00

It has to do with numbers and statistics, but more importantly how those match up with people's experiences. Most guys on TRP have been hurt, and are trying to make sense of it. They live in very different realities than non-TRP, and that's why most people think they're crazy. When someone comes in and spouts a preference that doesn't seem to match up with their experience, of course there will be some people who are skeptical. In their experience, a vast majority of women they've met like trait X.

Now a woman comes and says she likes trait Y. This is entirely possible and I think they understand that, but sometimes more and more women say they like trait Y. Now from their perspective, this is highly unlikely. If their perceived % of women who liked X vs Y was something like 60/40 it might not be too surprising, but most TRP hold the view of AWALT so they may even have an internal % of like 99/1. For many women to come out and say they like trait Y would be very unlikely.

You might have different preferences than most women, but the problem is why would anyone care? You didn't exist in that person's reality, and the person's reality you did exist in isn't TRP or won't share their experiences because you were in it. To put it another way, some guys who were never TRP but were lucky enough to find a unicorn probably wouldn't find TRP very compelling because they have anecdotal evidence that TRP is wrong.

I think most TRP feel like it's a taunt almost. You have a woman saying they like nice guys and in the back of some TRP minds they're wondering where women like you were when they needed you the most. It's almost like saying we exist, we just don't want you. This kind of thing re-enforces their views, so they find it hard to believe you're telling any kind of truth. Some may actually believe that you think you want that, but are just saying it for other reasons.

tallwheel · 2016-01-29T03:47:25+00:00

There is a difference between lying and rationalizing (known as "hamstering" in the manosphere).

Rationalizing is when someone believes their own lies. (Making them not really lies anymore.)

The only way to tell someone's truthful opinion is to observe their actions in the real world. Unfortunately, this is mostly impossible to do on an Internet forum.

insurrecto · 2016-01-29T21:16:25+00:00

You need to specify what you're talking about.

With regards to AWALT, most human behavior is determined based on evolved traits and behavior. Evolution pushes everyone to want to desire to pass on their genetic information. This is just basic "survival of the fittest." So, when a woman says something like "looks don't matter, I don't care if a guy is good looking or obese," people don't believe her because obesity is associated with many diseases, and a person wouldn't want to reproduce with someone who had diseases (basic evolutionary mate selection).

[deleted] · Thu Jan 28 5:43:48 2016 UTC

[permanently deleted]

Title	Why are people who want something different from the majority called liars?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	14
Comments	150
Date	January 28, 2016 5:35 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/431xzs/why_are_people_who_want_something_different_from/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-are-people-who-want-something-different-from.276644 https://theredarchive.com/post/276644

Comments