Saw this on r/Askmen

oneiorosgrip · 2012-11-04T20:00:30+00:00

This highlights the problem with the whole "date rape" concept pretty well. People do make stupid decisions when they're wasted. Sometimes those stupid decisions involve the participation of other people - whether it be the decision to ride with a drunk driver, go along with a drunken prank, have sex, or otherwise eschew the restraint one might have had when sober.

The fact that one has been drinking does not make others responsible for his or her choices. The writer in this situation did not take measures or use circumstances to deliberately bypass the guy's choice whether or not to engage in sex with her. She went forward on the information she had - that he was interested. What would be right if the sexes were reversed is right if they are not. Regardless of the sexes of the accused or accuser, situations like this do not constitute rape... and they shouldn't be treated as such.

thejosiekiller's comment is right on the money about reversing the sexes - which also highlights the issue of the double standard society has between the sexes on consent and responsibility. Men are held to a stricter standard of responsibility for obtaining consent, and a lower threshold of agency for giving it. When alcohol is involved, women can actually consent and later be excused from meaning it, leaving men who have obtained consent to be considered guilty of proceeding without it. When the sexes are reversed, those who advocate that lack of accountability for women would not treat the situation the same. That's one of the social attitudes which really needs to be confronted and countered if we are to reduce the incidence of men being wrongly prosecuted, persecuted, and imprisoned due to false allegations.

Edit - typos

didled · 2012-11-04T20:31:32+00:00

here's the link to the actual thread

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/12lw8t/he_says_i_raped_him/

Arcnsparc · 2012-11-04T20:57:46+00:00

This was a test thread, an identical one was posted in askwomen with roles reversed.

JockeVXO · 2012-11-04T21:17:40+00:00

I agree with Josiekiller, it seems from the account given that the sex was consensual and the "victim" had only himself to blame if he regretted it later.

And I agree that if the sexes were reversed it would probably be construed as rape and that Josiekiller's comment would be construed as "victim-blaming".

But I don't want women to suffer the same sort of hatred and social discrimination men suffered in days past or today, I just want men to be freed from this discrimination and the hatred to be done away with.

2012-11-05T03:58:52+00:00

I had a problem like this guy, but I didn't let it escalate to actually being raped. I'm 17 and a few months ago I had a 15 year old girlfriend, I am abstinent and she knew that. I made it clear to her that I didn't want to have sex but when I was at her house her sister left while her mom was on the way home so we were alone for just a few minutes. Immediately she began trying to kiss me and I said no at least half a dozen times before she just climbed on top of me (clothes still on) and started making out with me, I didn't want to use force but I just threw her off me onto the other end of the couch. I said no in a more firm tone but she climbed back towards me like an unkillable zombie and said 'who's going to believe you?' I gave in and started kissing her but thank god her mom came home a few seconds later, I thought about that a lot and realized absolutely no one would have believed me and she could have done absolutely anything she wanted. Tl;Dr zombie-esque exgirlfriend would have raped me, saved by her mother.

friestogo · 2012-11-04T21:33:44+00:00

It wouldn't have been rape even if you swap the genders. The "raped" person said "go down on me." They spent the night cuddling.

2012-11-04T20:21:29+00:00

[permanently deleted]

jtj-H · 2012-11-05T04:10:37+00:00

Was not rape.

2012-11-05T07:53:45+00:00

People be throwin that word around like candy.

tehpwnzorerzz11 · 2012-11-05T13:27:46+00:00

okay but there is nothing torn about it. just because there is a double standard doesn't mean she did anything wrong. guys do get a lot of shit but don't make her feel guilty because she's a minority in that regard

Jahonay · 2012-11-05T14:06:58+00:00

I don't drink, and never have. One benefit to this is that I'll never have a night where I'm hooking up with a drunk chick/a chick won't hook up with me when I'm drunk. I think it's really dumb that it's considered weird to try to flirt with a girl when she's sober and level headed. But that same girl would find it normal if you tried to sleep with her while she was drunk and high.

People should be more open to hooking up when they're sober, it would solve a whole bunch of problems.

boljek · 2012-11-05T03:17:26+00:00

I am so fucking tired of this argument. If you use force its rape. If you are passed out and someone has sex with you, its rape. If you were blackmailed or coerced in an unreasonable manner, its rape. Other than that its pretty much not rape. Someday we won't be able to even look at each other without it being considered rape. I think considering all these negligible events as rape makes a mockery of real rape victims who were physically forced or coerced through manipulation. We have a damn society of victim/weakness worship and its destroying everybody....WHite people stop your god damn guilt

2012-11-04T23:50:49+00:00

Alcohol is not an excuse.

shitsfuckedupalot · 2012-11-05T05:58:46+00:00

ok, yeah, the top comment was bullshit, thats the reddit community, but the girl didn't do anything wrong either. If the guy didn't say stop, then its not rape. Theres no reason for her to lie, and if she is then she's a twat. So if she's not, "go down on me" sounds like a pretty clear invitation for sex, so he wasn't raped, and he's probably just a pussy.

VirSaturnA · 2012-11-05T18:41:21+00:00

Only a retarded civilization would take two people driven to drooling idiocy from alcohol and cry rape when person regrets whatever sloppy pathetic physical encounter took place. We aren't talking about people being dragged into a closet and forced down here. This is just drunken stupidity and someone regretting it later. Girls somewhat getaway with claiming rape in these situations as if a drunk guy is any better at making great choices than a drunk girl, but there is no similar pandering when the gender is reversed. The whole thing is oversensitive bullshit of people refusing to take responsibility for the fact that they chose to put a toxic substance into their body until the point that they were effectively turned into stupid animals. Tough shit. Don't drink. Nobody has any respect for sex anyway. Oh here's a new person let's fuck them what could go wrong? Oh I feel bad now who can I blame besides myself? This kind of whiny bullshit is an insult to the horrible crime that real rape is. Of course men have every right to bitch about it since there is such a double-standard but the answer isn't to make rape an acceptable charge for everyone it's to grow up and take responsibility for your own actions especially if you choose to fuck up your body with brain destroying toxins.

electriophile · 2012-11-05T23:25:42+00:00

This was absolutely not rape. He consented. But its unfortunate, if the genders were swapped, the guy would be in jail.

beforegalileo · 2012-11-06T06:36:48+00:00

It's a step in the right direction. And while I would rather this person be there already, I'd much rather have a step at all than nothing.

So this post fills me with hope and pessimism. Mostly hope.

LurkingLarkin · 2012-11-05T14:07:59+00:00

how is this even mentioned in the context of rape? are you people insane? he even told her to suck his dick, he was drunk and wanted it same as her, its ridiculous to think anything else. only in america.

actanonverba8 · 2012-11-05T03:14:53+00:00

Funny how she "couldn't remember" anything except direct quotes that exonerate her. She sounds like she's full of the smelly stuff.

Title	Saw this on r/Askmen
Author	didled
Upvotes	979
Comments	131
Date	November 4, 2012 7:31 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/12mhtl/saw_this_on_raskmen/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/saw-this-on-raskmen.1009917 https://theredarchive.com/post/1009917

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