Is marriage even necessary anymore?

dakru · 2012-04-17T01:09:39+00:00

"It's a way to show your love!"

Show your love by staying with them and loving them, not with a piece of paper and a really expensive ceremony.

BinaryShadow · 2012-04-17T05:08:26+00:00

I got the "ultimatum" last night from the g/f. She wanted the next step, I didn't. I told her why. It's not marriage that I fear, it's divorce. It's not committment I fear, it's that when one of us chooses to break it, I would be the one to lose. She understood and was quiet.

Inadvertantly, I flipped the ultimatum on her. I said that if you really want that and you know I don't, then I'll understand if you want to break up. It will suck, it will be depressing, but you'll find another guy that wants what you want. But I'm not there.

One of the hardest conversations I've ever had to have. But I WILL NOT be pressured into such a decision just because someone is getting the wedding-itch. I was willing to throw my good three year relationship in the trash over this. Well, she caved and we've punted for another year or so. Maybe I'll change, maybe I won't. I even told her that I don't know if I'll change in a year. She's willing to risk that.

But what I do know is that my aunt went through a bitter divorce before I was even born (I'm 29 now). She's STILL bitter about it to this day and she's in her 70's. I don't want to be like that. And I wasn't ready to roll the fucking dice last night.

To sum up my feelings on marriage and answer your question: Marriage is not necessary anymore. When it works out, you have a loving partner that's one of your best friends and will be there for you when you need her (and vice versa). You'll have the luxury of a second income (go DINK for a few years to build up your savings). It's a wonderful idea. But the fears come about when it DOESN'T work out. It may change overnight. She may get bored. You may not be sexually compatible after a few years. It happens and there's nothing you can do to change some things. Then she'll want the divorce. And she'll get half the assets and all the kids. Whatever debt BOTH of you accrued becomes your problem. Are you willing to risk that just for something that may break apart in a few years? I'm not. It's cost me relationships in the past (for understandable reasons. I'm not mad at them for this).

rightsbot · 2012-04-17T00:36:18+00:00

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biglebowski55 · 2012-04-17T03:31:39+00:00

My partner and I consider adoption as a possible option, and both think it unlikely to happen without getting married, and so have discussed that if we decide to go that route, we may need to get married.

ShystemSock · 2012-04-17T00:50:44+00:00

2 words: Prenuptial agreement. 50% of marriages end in divorce.

ninjarxa · 2012-04-17T01:50:32+00:00

Perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned, but I am a 26 y/o male who DOES want to get married someday. I am attracted to the symbolic nature of it, and would also enjoy tax benefits, hospital visitations (I have a genetic heart condition), and other benefits. Additionally, my girlfriend and I have talked about prenups quite openly and we both agree it's a good idea.

YadaYadaYada2 · 2012-04-17T01:24:43+00:00

I do not recommend marriage in Amercia. Even having a child out of wedlock.

Though a man is legally innocent, a judge automatically orders he lose his children to visitation, lose eighteen years of his income, and over half his stuff, in a divorce he may not want (unilateral), for little or no reason (no-fault).

The USA has on of the highest divorce rates in the world of about 200 countries, with courts that are bodiless towards fathers.

Ma99ie · 2012-04-17T00:48:39+00:00

i_poop_splinters · 2012-04-17T01:36:39+00:00

Aren't there rules if someone is in the hospital about who gets to see them? Family members and spouses taking priority? I don't really know how that works, but it sounds like you get priority when you're married.

I agree though. I've been with the same chick for just about 10 years, have a daughter and we have no plans to get married. I mean...why? Someday when i'm a millionaire (It'll happen!) i want the money i worked hard for to be mine and not have to pay some ridiculous adult-child support for her to live. "Marriage" doesn't seem to mean "we love each other and are committed" rather than "i want to make sure i get half your stuff if anything bad happens". You can be completely committed without a piece of paper.

I just hate being an adult in a committed relationship and saying "yeah, my girlfriend". The idea people get is that its just a casual thing and we're not really serious. It's not until you say "wife" that people get it in their heads that we're not on the verge of breaking up or something. And when i mention how long we've been together, they look at me like i must hate her or something for not getting married. Like "well, whats wrong then if you don't want to commit?". I am committed! I've been here for a decade! How's that not commitment? Ahhhhggg

2012-04-17T04:28:47+00:00

With unilateral divorce in the equation, a marriage contract is no contract at all. It's a farce. Not to mention that the average man only gets one shot at it: If someone is sponging off your assets you will have a hard time ever attracting someone again or starting a new family. Women, on the other hand can get do over after do over if they so choose.

TheTyger · 2012-04-17T06:21:50+00:00

There is one thing that I would point out as a flaw in the common knowledge that both you and others in this thread are agreeing on. 50% of people do not get divorced. Many predictions of future divorce rates, based on faulty math have 43% of first marriages ending in divorce.

Other than the fact that the math that is being used here is questionable, there are a couple of other, larger issues that confuse these numbers. First, the 43% is a guess, based on trends that are not fully understood. My belief personally is that the movement of women into the workforce, and fast changes in the common roles of men and women in a relationship caused a spike that will have flattened out in the next decade or so. This makes the forecasting of "X% of all marriages will end in divorce" an act of random divination.

Second, the 50% rate does not take into account people who go through a half dozen spouses, or even the fact that divorces seem to be rather like assassination, in that after the first one, the next one is easier. Once you have been divorced a first time, getting that second one is easier.

Lastly, the math that is used is often skewed for the sake of making the argument that marriage is dying, and that something needs to be done. The idea that someone or something needs to fix marriage is great for many industries attempting to cash out from it.

Now, on to why I decided to get married. First off, after 5 years of dating, 2 years of living together, and moving across the country to try to better our lives, my wife is one of the two people in my life that I can trust fully. Unlike so many people who seem to get quickly tied up into situations with women that they really do not know, I would be willing to stake everything on the fact that I really know her.

Second, we do not have much right now. Neither one of us has been very successful in our careers yet, and we both rely on the other from time to time to support us when things are not going as well. It's an investment in another person. I have no problem with making a 50% equity wager that we will be doing this forever.

Most importantly, we have seen good, we have seen bad, and we are still together. If something happened to her, I would have little to no reason to live. Now, I wouldn't likely commit suicide, because that isn't my game, but I have destructive tendencies. My wife is the person that I see every day, that I know will feel the full effect of any action I take, and the person I do not want to disappoint.

While I do not discount the possibility of things one day going bad, which must always be seen as a possibility, the ceremony of the whole thing is important. We did not have a wedding in front of our families, but rather just the two of us quietly got married at the local courthouse. We did it for eachother. Also, for many situations, having a pre-nup gives the idea that there is already doubt in the success of the marriage, and getting out is possible. And, hey, she is all about the MRM as well, so I know that she at least wants to believe the right things.

TL;DR Getting married now is a more important decision than ever before. You should not only do it because you love someone, but because you trust them. If they are not able to understand the risk you are taking for them, you might not want to tie the knot.

tango646 · 2012-04-17T10:33:47+00:00

True a lot of guys when they get the ultimatum and they know they are not ready usually go with it because they fear loosing her. I have countless friends who fell into this and paid the ultimate price. The good thing about being 35 is the experience that comes with it, things like ultimatums, emotional blackmail, withholding sex absolutely does not work with me.

I am always upfront with anyone I'm dating, they know right off the bat that marriage is off the table. The thing is I own my home and have a very good job and what I've realized is that many say they understand and respect my decision but continue to date me with the intention of changing my mind. After a few months the hints and innuendos start coming, once i make it ultimately clear that no power in the universe could ever convince to marry again, I get the tears, the I'm different from other women and finally the ultimatum.

I always get the you have a nice house why aren't you married, what the fuck does that have to do with anything!

Alanna · 2012-04-17T03:41:59+00:00

Marriage has hundreds of legal benefits that are difficult if not impossible (not to mention expensive) to obtain any other way.

It's up to you if those benefits, like hospital visitation and spousal immunity and inheritance laws and so forth are worth it to you, but marriage does have unique benefits.

2012-04-17T04:02:15+00:00

The only advantage marriage has is in acquiring benefits for your significant other, and getting visitation in a hospital during critical care.

Those aren't even an issue in some places.

wildfire2k5 · 2012-04-17T06:17:27+00:00

Yeah, I have been very afraid of commitment and marriage for many reasons regarding stuff like this. I don't have a lot of money but what I do have and have earned is MINE. I will not hesitate to spend money on you are help out with whatever you need but if we ever were to split up you are not gettin my shit. I worked my whole life for it and its mine. You don't get to come into my life a take my shit and make me pay out the ass for whatever type of lifestyle you think you want to live.

So I guess what I'm saying is I would get a prenup. That would have to be a condition. Other fees and costs are unavoidable, but I am not going to get stuck paying for you and struggling myself for the rest of my life because you were a bitch(or I was a dick, however it ends, you still aren't getting my shit).

Grubnar · 2012-04-17T07:33:47+00:00

Children.

Kilgannon_TheCrowing · 2012-04-17T09:50:37+00:00

I am opposed to the entire concept of marriage. It has unnecessary religious overtones, and among a lot of couples, it's a sort of "bragging right". Not to mention that it can be a huge amount of money, basically to put on a show for people you know. My girlfriend and I don't plan on getting married because of this stuff.

ninfan200 · 2012-04-17T02:20:04+00:00

as a religious person I do feel that marriage does have some spiritual value. that being said if you are not religious then marriage really isn't that big of a deal.

hardwarequestions · 2012-04-17T00:41:27+00:00

tax and legal benefits.

InfallibleBiship · 2012-04-17T03:46:32+00:00

Marriage is really a good thing. Unfortunately, the marriage contract is a really bad thing (for men, generally).

azureknightmare · 2012-04-17T05:44:22+00:00

As a guy who did get married and had kids (well, one so far) more and more I feel the answer is no.

Tax benefits? Yes. But considering how much money I lose in family costs it's not much of an incentive. Other than that I can't think of a good reason how being legally married ultimately benefits me.

So why did I do it? That was just the plan that had been ingrained in me from when I was young. You get older, you settle down. Find a nice girl, marry her, have kids. I didn't stop to question it. My wife is a great woman and I wanted to stay with her, and she wanted marriage so here we are.

fauxnician · 2012-04-17T06:30:51+00:00

Ive seem some horror stories here, and I don't know what kind of wolves-in-sheeps clothing that you guys know, but I've been with my girlfriend for a while and look forward to marriage. I think there's still social value in it ( what society and her family will value in the union anyway, but that's not why), as well as taxable and legal benefits. I'm 22 now and it's still a ways away, but the symbolism of a male-female ( or male-male / female-female ) pair bonding, the romantic notion, and the benefits a society that values marriage bestows upon you are reason enough. Though the ultimate reason is love, I suppose.

SpeakToTheSky · 2012-04-17T01:57:00+00:00

Whether you get married or not, she can still use your children against you.

She can also use the anti-constitutional domestic violence legislation against you (VAWA) whether or not you are married.

Don't get married. Don't cohabitate.

frostysauce · 2012-04-17T03:17:19+00:00

Relevant?

unkz · 2012-04-17T06:02:43+00:00

Hospital visitation rights is one standout that comes to mind. Health insurance is probably a big factor for Americans too. Also, anyone in the military is probably going to want to be able to move their SO around as they are ordered around to different bases, and boyfriend/girlfriend doesn't give you that capability.

DisRuptive1 · 2012-04-17T07:49:30+00:00

It's easier for a woman to escape a relationship if it's marriage rather than a long-term courtship.

minibeardeath · 2012-04-17T08:05:38+00:00

The only reason I plan on getting married is because her mom is Irish Catholic. My current long term girlfriend is also a bit of a hopeless romantic. I have told her that this is how I feel, and she understands my point of view. However, I do appreciate that marriage has symbolism within a religious family, and there are some things that its just easier to go with the flow. Also, we are both young, and managed to survive 3 years of a college long distance relationship, so I have no worries about her leaving me. Lastly, we both want to be able to move around the world fairly regularly, and its a lot easier to get spousal moving expense covered than girlfriend moving expenses.

In short, I've analyzed the circumstances objectively, and I am willing to place my bet on her being a winner. It doesn't hurt that she is one of the nicest people I know, and I know she doesn't have it in her to become a cut-throat bitch if we did get divorced.

JustPlainRude · 2012-04-17T04:09:52+00:00

Marriage provides a legal and financial framework which makes raising a family easier.

myblockcheck · 2012-04-17T06:12:19+00:00

1) The divorce rate is NOT 50%. It's much much lower.

2) I don't see much logic behind marriage, outside of religion, anyways.

td9red · 2012-04-17T01:15:53+00:00

Well, if you love the woman, I could see a guy agreeing to marriage b/c she will leave if he doesn't. Most women still want marriage and will leave a relationship within 5 years if she don't see marriage happening.

Maschalismos · 2012-04-17T06:42:23+00:00

[permanently deleted]

DougDante · 2012-04-17T06:53:14+00:00

"and do anything else married couples can without the penalty of having to go through"

Nope, in most states an unmarried father cannot take his child to a doctor or sign a field trip waiver unless he has a court order, which requires the explicit permission of a judge, because moms are given sole legal and physical custody by default.

Rhynovirus · 2012-04-17T07:07:25+00:00

Recently married. Taxes went up, health insurance went waaaay up, blowjobs went to 0, most of my friends don't talk to me anymore since they're out doing single stuff or having kids.

I want to know what tax breaks OP is talking about.

kahmikaiser · 2012-04-17T05:18:33+00:00

Fear? Really? Fear is your defense against marriage?

Veloqu · 2012-04-17T05:45:41+00:00

This is the type of thread that gives the Men's Rights movement a bad name. There is nothing wrong with marriage. The problem is too many people rush into it without thinking of the consequences. Most of this thread sounds just as jaded about marriage and women as they say feminists are. There are plenty of legal and fiscal reason getting married makes life easier especially if you're going to raise children together.

Dranosh · 2012-04-17T14:08:15+00:00

Let me explain. The thing about marriage is that it's more than a piece of paper and an expensive ceremony. It's a contract between 2 people that no matter what happens in life, whether it be poor, rich, sick, or healthy, that they would still be together for life.

The wedding is a ceremony where witnesses see the couple get married and will help guide them in the right direction. It tells society that the man and woman are no longer completely separate, rather they're a husband and a wife that act as one person where if one gets sick the other will be there to help, if one gets a promotion the other will be there to praise.

If you go into a marriage thinking that you always have a way out through divorce, you will ALWAYS have your foot in the door waiting to leave.

I've never been married, but I will one day, but it doesn't take a married person to tell you marriage is tough, it requires both parties to work at it and to not be selfish. A lot of people nowadays think it's all about yourself, me me me me, but it's not, you need to feel joy by doing things for your spouse and not expect anything in return, and if they never give you anything in return don't file a divorce go and sit down with a gasp pastor (reddit is synonymous with athiest) or marriage counselor and talk it out.

If something doesn't make sense just quote it and I'll check later, but I gotta go

2012-04-17T04:06:08+00:00

It can be argued that marriage is necessary to keep beta males productive, since strictly enforced monogamy ensures almost everyone a mate. However, like everyone already knows, marriage the way it is right now is stupid since men no longer have any incentive to get married and stay that way.

ninjarxa · 2012-04-17T02:28:55+00:00

[permanently deleted]

BaSiiCzxX · 2012-04-17T02:31:37+00:00

Also most weddings are expensive as hell, I guess its just one of those things we've been programmed since birth to want. Also whats with the obsession with diamonds?

TOGTFO · 2012-04-17T04:56:45+00:00

Simple, she wanted it and I see myself with her for the conceivable future and it was expected from both families. I couldn't give a shit and I'm not jaded about women, so I thought "why not?"

Though, in my position, she earns a shitload of money, so is independantly wealthy, while I have put more equity into my house, she dumped her savings into it and has a vast inheritance coming to her.

Really, we're both educated, have good jobs and know mutually assured desturction would happen if either party decided to fuck over the other in a divorce.

Really it's a no brainer for me. The only sticking point was she wanted a really fucking expensive ring, as in well and truly past the 5k mark. But in the end I figured it wasn't really that big of a sacrifice and we got hitched. Both families are Catholic and we had it in a massive beautiful church and it was an awesome day. Cost a shitload, but hey, I would hear about it for the rest of my life (or hers) if I was stingy and it wasn't up to snuff.

In return I've got loads of gaming systems, got a sweet speed boat and am generally allowed to indulge in what she calls rubbish - sports stuff.

The way I see it the main disadvantage is the money issue. For us it's not a problem. I could come out of it better, but coming in she was the one with less assets.

So really, I see that if you really trust and love the person if it makes them happy marry them. If you don't then you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

OH, and I don't want to have bastards.

2012-04-17T15:04:34+00:00

Personally, I'm choosing not to. This is an example from my own life based on the past 4 years.

8 friends got married, approximately 2 a year. Of those 8 marriages, you know how many of them lasted? One. That one is on the rocks as well.

Why would I waste my time, energy, and most importantly, my emotions on something like that? Between trust issues and a lack of respect between the sexes, the institution of marriage is dead. The only growing instance of marriage is in the gay community. I'm not gay, so that doesn't do it for me.

Title	Is marriage even necessary anymore?
Author	ninjarxa
Upvotes	53
Comments	244
Date	April 17, 2012 12:35 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/sdcgn/is_marriage_even_necessary_anymore/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/is-marriage-even-necessary-anymore.1023830 https://theredarchive.com/post/1023830

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