Hi. If you’re a conservative lurker, this isn’t meant to demonize you or say I hate you. Hell, you might even consider yourself a conservative and agree with everything I’m about to say. I’m more or less using “conservative” because most men I’m describing here align with conservatism.
Today I opened twitter and saw Steve Harvey trending. The crime? In 2010 he gave an interview saying men and women can’t be friends and that most, if not all men, are just trying to fuck their female friends whether they realize it or not. I subsequently saw posts showing Chris Rock’s comedy sketches that demonstrated the same thing. Now here’s my issue:
You can’t claim to be a men’s advocate and then demonize men as creepy fuckers who want to seduce all women and are incapable of seeing women as anything other than sex objects. Now, when I bring this up to feminist women, they agree, but they largely don’t understand the internalized misandry and the self hatred these men have for other men, and then go on and ADOPT that same hatred.
But on the other hand here. Why are these men shocked when women say “all men are rapists, abusers, etc.” when we have conservative, “alpha male” types who teach their daughters the exact same thing? You think these feminist women are misandrist out of nowhere? They’re learning their misandry from men like them!
This is something that I have had to encounter when talking to conservative men in men’s spaces. Many of them engage in this self deprecating rhetoric and are completely fine with demonizing other men: as long as they have access to women. For them, a misandrist woman is perfect! As long as they have sexual access. Because many of them subscribe to purity culture ideals, a misandrist woman is perfect for them: she can stay away from men as long as she’s popping pussy for 1 man alone. Subs like the redpill are just more open about saying that.
And this is ultimately my problem when conservative men interact with mens issues. They don’t call out the controlling fathers and the purity culture toting religious figures and the steve harvey’s: they defend them. And use their advocacy for men’s rights to defend them, even when their statements hurt men by implying all men are potential rapists and fuckbuddies who only care about sex.
This isn’t to shit on male sexuality, which is already shitted on by radfems like Catharine MacKinnon. But male sexuality isn’t a beast that needs taming, even though both radfems and conservatives often agree on this. The difference is that conservative men want to accept it and use it to victim blame assault survivors, while radfems treat male sexuality as the beast conservatives - and conservative men - present it to be. No where in this process did anyone stop to think if male sexuality was even a beast to begin with, that male sexuality isn’t just looking to fuck anything with a pussy (or anything else for that matter).
So frankly, I’m at my wits end with conservative men and their advocacy, because they literally fuel radfem statements and agree with their premises. They only differ by wanting to accept the beast, which comes with a host of victim blaming issues for those who are rape survivors. If men’s advocacy remains in conservatives hands, I promise you all that misandry will only get worse.
[–]DistrictAccurate 49 points50 points51 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Billy-Batdorf 42 points43 points44 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheTurquoiseTortilla 10 points11 points12 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]RockmanXX 15 points16 points17 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheTurquoiseTortilla -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]SchalaZeal01 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]OGBoglord1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't see most conservatives holding that view. Personal responsibility and self-control are lauded virtues among conservatives, and many have an almost fanatic commitment to criminal justice. While I wouldn't count on conservative communities to be strong advocates for victims of sexual assault, they certainly do hold rapists and other sexual predators fully accountable for their behavior, and probably advocate for more severe punishments than many liberals do.
[–]TheTurquoiseTortilla 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]plitox_is_a_bitch 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 65 points66 points67 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 39 points40 points41 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 19 points20 points21 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 29 points30 points31 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Strikester101 52 points53 points54 points (13 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 39 points40 points41 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]redgarnetamaranth 20 points21 points22 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]Deadlocked02 8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 5 points6 points7 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]RockmanXX -1 points0 points1 point (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 2 points3 points4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate[M] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Banake 5 points6 points7 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[+]Killingdanse2 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Yea that's a problematic stance. I stay away from feminist spaces precisely because the constant body shaming and sex / love shaming. It shreds my mental health and I will NEVER feel bad for not working with people who abuse me.
[–]Banake 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Svennboii 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Poly_and_RA 11 points12 points13 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]W0utertj3 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Poly_and_RA 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Deadlocked02 38 points39 points40 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]LacklustreFriend 11 points12 points13 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Deadlocked02 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]RockmanXX 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]TintelFrootleft-wing male advocate 7 points8 points9 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- -1 points0 points1 point (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]TintelFrootleft-wing male advocate 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]nocturnefox 7 points8 points9 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ImportantResults 22 points23 points24 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]MelissaMiranti 20 points21 points22 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Old-Compote-9991left-wing male advocate 15 points16 points17 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]W0utertj3 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DarthMeow504 19 points20 points21 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 13 points14 points15 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Old-Compote-9991left-wing male advocate 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Phantombiceps 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Old-Compote-9991left-wing male advocate 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]WJSvKiFQY 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]UnHope20 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AmericanBoy505 9 points10 points11 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]W0utertj3 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BloomingBrains 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Suicidal_Alone 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]random13980 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]person_w_personality1 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Unpopular opinion: some of the advice while PUA sounding is for a reason - many men that are friends with women don't get the full experience of friendship or treated like a friend but instead get used as an emotional outlet, where the relationship is completely one-sided and your role is just to carry out favors or listen to their problems while you are expected not to bother them with your problems.
You can then say set boundaries to make it clear this isn't acceptable, but when you do that many men have found the friendship with women ends. It is this feeling of being taken for a ride and used in a one-sided relationship that is apparently common enough for it to be an issue for many heterosexual men that is the reason many guys supposedly interested in men's rights still frown on being friends with women as a heterosexual man.
[–]ExcellentTraffic123 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+]person_w_personality1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
I was referring more to how there are men that want to be friends with women, but that other men and women are socialized to see men and women being friends as more of a one-sided relationship where the male friend is expected to give and listen but no reciprocation or hearing problems is expected from the female friend lest request from the male friend for reciprocation be considered sleazy.
This appears to be common (I don't think it's just a matter of personal experience) and IMO that is one of the reasons why many men's rights people that are already interested in the different lived experiences between men and women and concerned about men's health in interpersonal relationships advise against heterosexual men being friends with women.
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[+]person_w_personality1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
No I think that is putting too much onus on the man. Sometimes it's not clear that the female friend is engaging in leechiness until much later on because some men naturally do think that that they can be friends with women and only think this leechiness and unreliableness of female friends occurs in misogynistic fantasies of failed men. But it does happen to some guys even if they do vet. If it didn't there wouldn't be a pattern of guys noticing the one-sided nature of many friendships between heterosexual men and women despite their best efforts to avoid this happening.
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]W0utertj3 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]FightHateWithLove 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]gratis_eekhoorn 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DownvoteMe2021 0 points1 point2 points (19 children) | Copy Link
[–]fndo84 10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 16 points17 points18 points (14 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points
(5 children) | Copy Link
[–]DownvoteMe2021 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DownvoteMe2021 0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DownvoteMe2021 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]DownvoteMe2021 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]DownvoteMe2021 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]reverbiscrap -4 points-3 points-2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]W0utertj3 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]DownvoteMe2021 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]bobbybobsonday -5 points-4 points-3 points (16 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 13 points14 points15 points (15 children) | Copy Link
[+]DownvoteMe2021 -9 points-8 points-7 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Robble93 -4 points-3 points-2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]bobbybobsonday -10 points-9 points-8 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheWheatOne 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 1 point2 points3 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]bobbybobsonday -5 points-4 points-3 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheWheatOne 8 points9 points10 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]RockmanXX -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Strikes001 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 2 points3 points4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]bobbybobsonday -1 points0 points1 point (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]bobbybobsonday 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]PossessionOk3280 -10 points-9 points-8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]miss_Aesthetic- 13 points14 points15 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DevilishRogue -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link