"Women attempt more, but men use deadlier methods when attempting suicide"

PQKN051502 · 2022-05-13T11:28:35+00:00

It's a well known fact that men commit suicide more than women in every country in the world. But what is behind this rate? People argue that since women attempt suicide at higher rates than men, it proves that women are the ones in need of help not men. But men have a higher rate of suicidal intent than women. It seems that many women could be making a suicidal gesture rather than actually wanting to commit suicide.

Some also say that men choose more lethal methods, but this is also not indicative of men's suicide rate because even when men choose the same methods, they still die more than women.

91% of men who committed suicide did seek help before doing it

So, what is the reason? Well, suicide prevention programs work much better for girls than for boys.

This study shows that men are dropping out of therapy prematurely because therapy was created with women in mind.

To summarize, if men all over the world commit suicide more than women, even when using the same methods, and men drop out of therapy because it doesnt suit their needs, than isn't it systemic discrimination?

By the way, we need to save links of articles/studies/researches to use in arguments later

mikesteane · 2022-05-13T06:45:55+00:00

The same woman can "attempt" suicide multiple times, thus completely skewing the figures.

TitanicPat · 2022-05-13T05:01:15+00:00

feminists love to bring this up in suicide discussion, they've just got to find some way to bring the attention back to themselves "it's not JUST about the deaths, you know. There's more to it than that." But see how they like talking about "women's attempts" in discussions of domestic violence "Stop trying to muddy the waters! the BODY COUNT is all that matters, you manipulative mysoginist!"

Feminists try to dictate the framing and goal posts of every discussion to benefit themselves. Far from any cohesive philosophy, gender equality becomes a kind of feudal map of disparate topics like isolated fiefdoms each with its own peculiar laws and superstitious customs.

tired_hillbilly · 2022-05-13T04:55:15+00:00

It's even more insidious than that. The whole "Women attempt more" thing counts in the wrong direction. Because women choose less effective methods, many survive to make a 2nd, 3rd, 4th attempt. They're getting counted multiple times.

"Who is more likely to attempt suicide" and "Who makes more suicide attempts" are not the same quantity.

Vidar34 · 2022-05-13T09:28:06+00:00

Women attempt suicide mostly for attention. Men attempt suicide in order to kill themselves.

R-human · 2022-05-13T07:42:52+00:00

We're just better at getting things done

iainmf · 2022-05-13T06:49:22+00:00

I t's really hard to count suicide attempts. It's so hard they don't bother. Instead they use proxy measures like self-harm hospitalisations.

Self-harm hospitalisations are bad because not all self-harm is a suicide attempt. A single person can be hospitalised multiple times. Some suicide attempts don't require any hospitalisation. EG if you stand on train tracks and no train comes.

Another way to count attempts self-reports, but that's not straight forward either. People will have all kinds of different ideas about what is an attempt. EG how close to doing something counts as an attempt? If you go up to a high place, with the intention to jump, but don't, is that an attempt?

One good study is from the Dunedin Longitudinal Study, which has been following the same 1000 people since 1975. They found that men and women attempt at close the same rate. I can't remember what it was.

The other thing to consider is that the choice of method changes with age. IIRC women use more serious methods, like hanging, when they are young, but older women tend to use poison. I think part of the difference in the choice of methods is explained by actual desire to die.

Note, this is from New Zealand where firearms are tightly controlled, so hanging is one of the more severe methods.

In any case, it clear that the best way to reduce suicide deaths is programs targeting men and boys.

trashtony69 · 2022-05-13T06:11:40+00:00

I’ve seen many women use this argument to minimise male suicide statistics/men’s mental health issues. If a feminist does this I simply ask “does that mean more women are doing it for attention?” …I think that’s a valid question to a stupid argument.

northseaview · 2022-05-13T05:31:23+00:00

Both assertions are simply not true. The YouTube channel 'a shield for men' I think does a reasonable take down of the methods assertion, showing numerous references from various countries that the methods are similar between men and women. From his play list it is not obvious which video, but his debunk of contrapoints would be a good starting point.

Regarding suicide attempts, the problem is typical conflating of self harming with suicide attempts, similar to lumping in catcalling with rape and concluding 90% of women are victims of sexual assault. It may be that women self harm more often as a cry for help, precisely because they are more likely to receive support, while this strategy is less effective for men, who are more likely to use self harm strategies like drugs, alcohol, risk taking, which are less easily conflated with suicidal ideation. Mark postgate looks at this in his calm video, but I do not have a reference to hand. This is a useful hypothesis to test in exploring the research papers.

Joe_Immortan · 2022-05-13T12:04:37+00:00

I know families with daughters who attempted suicide on multiple occasions during their teen years. They now have well-adjusted daughters who graduated college and are doing well.

I also know a family whose son committed suicide. They just have a dead son. And grief. It never fully goes away…

eighteensevensaid · 2022-05-13T11:27:04+00:00

The men I talk to about suicide are very definite about an attempt. Hanging, walking in front of a train, driving into or off things or exhaust fumes. They leave little room for intervention. Women generally pills and drowning in baths and other methods where detection is possible. The important issue here is if a man starts giving away his stuff, presenting as extremely happy after a period of not being so well, this is a tell. So don’t take “I am fine” as a credible answer to how are doing? Dig deeper and be around for men anyway.

MotCADK · 2022-05-13T11:21:23+00:00

So you are saying men are more successful at suicide. The patriarchy strikes again.

DanteLivra · 2022-05-13T11:54:50+00:00

"Men are selfish because they don't care about who they leave behind and how they will find his corpse"

Another stupid take I hear often. Actual male suffering < The inconvenience of seeing a dead relative.

themolestedsliver · 2022-05-13T15:04:02+00:00

That's because it is used to dismiss male suicide rates.

Not only that but female suicide attempts are heavily inflated.

What I mean by this is that Hospitals (at least in the US) are trained to correlate self harm scars with suicide even if the self harm was clearly not intended to be lethal.

A women being admitted for a suicide attempt would very likely have it written down this wasn't her first attempt going by self harm scars even if that was in fact her only serious attempt to end her life.

Another aspect of this I find to be common sense although a lot of feminsts and their ilk don't think about this.

If someone fails to commit suicide but are intent on ending their life they will keep trying and trying.

Take a suicidal male and a suicidal female who are both intent on killing themselves however they aren't outliers.

The women tries to OD but didn't factor in her weight and other biological factors so she doesn't die but is in pain and suffering so she calls for help. Still wanting to end her life she tries to slit her wrists but someone finds her. Finally she's had enough and just hangs herself ending her life.

The man figures he has had enough and decides to jump off a very high bridge and ends his life.

Here you have two people both clearly intent on ending their life however given their biological predisposition the women attempts several times more than a man.

A reasoning for this is that women sometimes attempt suicide as a cry for help whereas a man would not expect any sympathy in regards to their plight so they just want to get it done quick and efficiently.

Suicide is a problem that largely effects men however there are a lot of people who cannot tolerate discussing male suffering so they seek to belittle, dismiss, and misrepresent data in order to frame women as the the "true victims".

This happens for murder/assault (men are victims far more than the women and yet there isn't any talk about "violence against men") as it does for homelessness (the % of "True homeless" as in not couch surfing, are mostly men by a large margin).

ch994y · 2022-05-13T05:46:16+00:00

and then they add... "it's because women are more considerate and less violent than men"

Morriganus · 2022-05-13T06:59:53+00:00

Well, women do it for attention, while men mostly actually mean it.

Also women have basically all the attention of both shelters and professional helpers while men have exactly 1 here in Germany

2022-05-13T13:12:56+00:00

Maybe men want actually to die instead of only looking for attentions

McFeely_Smackup · 2022-05-13T15:58:16+00:00

it's just the same old dismissing of undeniable male issues by Feminism. Does it sound familiar? Ever hear "Ok, men are murdered more, but they're killed by other men..."

It's just a way to dismiss reality and market the Feminist Victim Fetish.

There's not even any real evidence that the claim is true. They come to these numbers by self reported surveys. Ask a woman if she's ever attempted suicide and she's might be likely to say "yes" because one time she drank a lot when she was depressed. ask a man if he's ever attempted suicide and he might say "well, I'm still alive...so no, not a real attempt".

The FACT is men commit suicide 4x more than women, and Feminism wants us to ignore that because mens lives literally don't matter to them.

TendieDinner777 · 2022-05-13T05:40:25+00:00

Our society is wholly unprepared to analyze statistics, let alone comprehend them.

Let’s just watch people grooving in the same outfits for 10 seconds at a time until our attention spans disappear…

kevon87 · 2022-05-13T07:18:41+00:00

Women attempt suicide as a cry for help, to get people to listen to them.

Men commit suicide as a last resort, because they know no one will ever listen to them.

Ziogatto · 2022-05-13T05:52:32+00:00

In other words, they believe women are so incompetent that they can't even commit suicide properly.

Call them disgusting sexist mysoginists when they do that and be offended and triggered and say lots of "literally can't even".

Yardael · 2022-05-13T04:49:13+00:00

Women try to cut themselves or overdose. Men hang themselves or jump under a car or of the cliff. You can see who is more likely to survive the attempt. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539603/

Bowlnk · 2022-05-13T06:39:16+00:00

Simple women attempt suicide,

Men commit (to) suicide. Because they think they ran out of options or have infact run out of options.

mykoiy · 2022-05-13T10:38:36+00:00

Men do attempt suicide more but women just open-up/ talk to someone more about their suicide attempts. So, maybe that's why. Correct me if I am wrong.

Nadallion · 2022-05-13T15:41:28+00:00

100 men think about and decide to commit suicide. 80 of them buy a gun, stick it in their mouth, and blow their head off.

200 women contemplate suicide as well. 150 take a few sleeping pills and tell their therapist.

A higher percentage of the number of men wanting to commit suicide mean it. A higher percentage of a larger number of women do it… but don’t really want to do it. If you’re serious about suicide, you’re going to make sure it’s going to happen.

Those not really trying to commit suicide then begs the question why are they doing it? I’ll leave the rest up to you.

Aspiengineer · 2022-05-13T17:06:46+00:00

"Or is there something I'm not understanding?"

Yes, math.

70 to 80% is 233 to 400% of 20 to 30%, or 133 to 300% more.

MrStone1 · 2022-05-13T11:19:43+00:00

Because women don't try to kill themselves, They do it to shift them blame from themselves for something shitty they have done.

Men do it because the problems we are faced with are seem insurmountable and trying to fix them is pointless, We'd also rather die than be a burden.

There is nothing toxic about it, It's because men are facing circumstances that are created to make as many of us kill ourselves as possible, The world is controlled by the weakest, Most spiteful human beings, Who have created a system that profits of the financial exploitation of every action we take.

Toxic men are the ones who hide behind indemnity clauses so they can experiment on people with no consequences.

sgtm7 · 2022-05-13T09:11:46+00:00

Or is there something I'm not understanding?

The prevailing opinion, is that often when women do it, it is not a real attempt, but more of a cry for help. My opinion, is that it is a combination of the prevailing opinion and that men are just more competent and efficient at it.

ExMuzzy · 2022-05-13T12:00:45+00:00

As well as not being able to repeat an attempt, men also have a higher rate of completion even when accounting for method.

Paltry_Poetaster · 2022-05-13T12:21:55+00:00

Men are more familiar with dangerous things and better accustomed to their operation.

OctaviaPinfold · 2022-05-13T12:55:51+00:00

There is a massive difference between using a suicide attempt to get attention and actually killing yourself. People who don't make that distinction are actively contributing to the problem of suicides not getting prevented.

Also, suicide attempts are an extremely wide spectrum with no clearly defined requirements. If I make a few cuts on my wrist, am I just cutting myself or attempting suicide but failing? Is it one attempt or multiple? It all depends on who's counting and for what reason.

odysseytree · 2022-05-13T12:58:34+00:00

Also, it defeats statistical logic. Suicide attempts are always higher than the successful deaths. So men's suicide attempts are so high that it leads to 75% suicide rate.

Mr-Zahhak · 2022-05-13T13:10:00+00:00

the insinuation here that men are attempting more is 1 possibility, the only other one is that women lie about suicide and fake attemps as a cry for help. I like ot believe people are good so I'll stick to the former but it is possible

DuneBug · 2022-05-13T13:13:53+00:00

Back in my psychology days the rule was women attempt (more often) as a cry for help. Men don't. That's why men often choose to use more lethal methods.

What I took from that was we should pay more attention to depressed men, since it's far less likely you'll get a cry for help from them.

Jbr74 · 2022-05-13T13:17:22+00:00

"Women ~~attempt more~~ dont really try to die, rather just want attention, but men use deadlier methods (generally are in so much pain they actually no longer want to live) when attempting suicide"

oafsalot · 2022-05-13T13:32:57+00:00

Until you realise that we don't document reliably men who fail to commit suicide, because they often never get noticed.

PollutionSad1475 · 2022-05-13T14:15:57+00:00

Good ol' oppression Olympics

Werwet10 · 2022-05-13T15:45:20+00:00

Women attempt more in less deadlier ways, how? Strangling themselves using a t-shirt? If the methods are less deadly that a significant portion survives, then I'm pretty sure that method is not deadly at all.

My point being, from where did they get this information? Pretty sure it's conjured up. The methods men use to commit suicide are pretty well known. Idk what sort of "undeadly" methods the said women are using that they apparently are not able to commit suicide.

BronzW1 · 2022-05-13T16:03:27+00:00

It’s a fallacy

Potato-with-guns · 2022-05-13T16:50:49+00:00

Women do in fact attempt more but men are more likely to succeed, much like how men are more likely to apply for a STEM position but there is a 2:1 hiring bias for equally qualified women.

However this is more indicative of how little support men receive, how there is no one to stop them from taking their life, which shows once again that we should allocate suicide prevention resources towards men.

thetroller242628 · 2022-05-13T16:59:49+00:00

I'm pretty positive it's because there is help for woman and don't need to bottle it up but I might be wrong

dfedz2004 · 2022-05-13T17:40:29+00:00

Women do it for attention and men do it for results

falonyn · 2022-05-13T20:10:56+00:00

I would like to point out here that pointing out that suicide is a problem for women too doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a focus on male suicide. If there was an event to help reduce male suicide, we shouldn't ask why this event exists just because female suicide is a problem too. Nor should we suggest that the event be turned into a combination for men and women, or not exist at all. Maybe there should be an event for female suicide.

zogins · 2022-05-13T22:23:24+00:00

I studied chemistry at university and those of us carrying out research had access to a huge arsenal of chemicals. We also knew how toxic certain chemicals were and what effects they would have if ingested.

One female student 'attempted' suicide by drinking denatured alcohol. Denatured alcohol can harm you but if taken in small amounts (such as a glass full) it is unlikely to kill you. She survived.

One male student who was academically brilliant was devastated over something a girlfriend did to him. He chose to swallow cyanide by the spoonful. There is no chance of surviving that.

taoofmojo · 2022-05-13T09:48:29+00:00

women tend to use method that are less lethal and man do the opposite. It is an argument from statistics reframing the argument so women are the ones that society should focus on. I think we should focus on both males and females. One could make the argument that maybe more on male side.

TAPriceCTR · 2022-05-13T11:43:40+00:00

Is just one more thing that men are better at than women

Great_Disruptor · 2022-05-13T19:04:09+00:00

This only comes up when people are playing victim olympics. There's no reliable method to measure attempts because not everyone who attempts wants to die and some people die accidentally when they really just wanted attention.

steak-n-jake · 2022-05-13T20:25:50+00:00

Women threaten suicide all the time. They use it as a weapon in relationships. It’s never actually serious. The statistics are skewed because of that

doggosrbabies · 2022-05-13T20:38:08+00:00

yeah terrible logic

WoodenPreference260 · 2022-05-13T21:00:47+00:00

Also important to know what a suicide attempt really is. A young woman i knew "attempted suicide" by taking one more ibuprofen than the container said you can have. Is that really a suicide attempt? Its classified as one because she said she was trying.

Normal-Yogurtcloset5 · 2022-05-13T21:07:40+00:00

Sounds to me like women attempt suicide because they want attention and men attempt suicide because they want to die.

ApatheticHeretic_101 · 2022-05-13T21:15:56+00:00

Because most times, women only want the attention, while men do because they lost all hope and want the pain to end.

ItDiedOnDaVine · 2022-05-13T23:11:56+00:00

That’s because whereas women crave attention in basically every facet of their lives, when a man hits that certain point he just wants to end it all

NextStopMyAss · 2022-05-14T00:11:24+00:00

This response to male suicide rates by feminists has always been humorous in a really dark and depressing way to me.

It's really just saying women's unsuccessful suicide attempts matter more than men's actual suicides.

Whitified · 2022-05-14T11:08:12+00:00

Only way to find out, is to measure the success rate of female murderers. Are female murderers also this bad at getting the job done?

Brendadonna · 2022-05-15T04:51:43+00:00

George Carlin says men are better at suicide

Temporary-Repair6779 · 2022-05-13T11:38:17+00:00

Why do you feel like it diminishes male suicide?

audreyrosedriver · 2022-05-13T14:17:40+00:00

So, I am a paramedic and have responded to multiple suicide attempts/successes. I am not sure what the original person was trying to say, but what I can tell you is that the majority of suicide attempts I have responded to are done by women. The most common attempt method is by medication overdose. I have never been to a immediately successful meditation overdose suicide attempt (some did die weeks later due to organ damage). The majority of suicide successes that I have been to are men. These are usually hangings, shootings or carbon monoxide poisoning. Some men choose overdose, some women choose these other 3 methods. One very ingenious and determined man chose both overdose and CO.

I don’t really know if one gender suffers depression more than the other. I would say that it affects both genders. But if you were basing your determination on the number of suicide attempts it would be overwhelming female. I haven’t punched the numbers but based on personal experience, I wouldn’t be shocked to hear ratios as high as 10 to 1 or even higher.

One difficulty using suicide and suicide attempts as a metric is that they are a result of depression, but they are not the only result.

"Women attempt more, but men use deadlier methods when attempting suicide"

Comments

SLASH FUCKING 'S'!!!

Title	"Women attempt more, but men use deadlier methods when attempting suicide"
Author	WTRKS1253
Upvotes	286
Comments	130
Date	May 13, 2022 4:42 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/uojw4e/women_attempt_more_but_men_use_deadlier_methods/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/women-attempt-more-but-men-use-deadlier-methods.1114418 https://theredarchive.com/post/1114418