Do you think stepping out of gender norms is more harmful for a man's dating life than a womans?

throwaway042994 · 2020-09-23T12:14:02+00:00

Feminine really is one of the worst things a man can be, not because of toxic masculinity, but because everyone -- both men and women punish feminine behavior from men.

(there are exceptions for gender fluid / androgynous type guys with a feminine aesthetic who can pull it off, but this is a small niche)

eastboundzorg · 2020-09-23T11:42:15+00:00

Way more harmful to a man's dating life. Hands down. A masculine woman is not what many men would choose if given options, but since most men don't have options, being a masculine woman isn't much of a handicap.

ChicksLieAboutAll · 2020-09-23T13:47:10+00:00

Unquestionably.

Men give women a lot more leeway than women give men.

JohnDoe9564 · 2020-09-23T11:42:15+00:00

Yes, you don't pay the bill and you don't get your 2nd date.

Notsonewguy7 · 2020-09-23T14:19:53+00:00

Women have the luxury of choosing what they want to do. Men don't.

akaean · 2020-09-23T12:48:15+00:00

I don't really care what other people think about me, personally. Feminine, Masculine... I don't let bullshit artificial societal constructs tell me what I want to do.

I have thick eastern European body hair, its disgusting, so I shave it off. All of it.

I like guns and have several

I am a dork and play DnD and Warhammer.

I prefer my hair long and have been growing it out for over a year now.

None of this has impacted my dating life, because I am not ashamed of my preferences. I don't really care if someone thinks my shaved legs and longer hair are feminine. I don't care if someone thinks my guns are evil. I don't care if someone thinks nerd hobbies are for children. I like what I like and I'm not ashamed of any of it. If someone finds those things a deal breaker... I didn't want to date them in the first place.

And I've never had any problems getting women just being who I am, partly because I am confident in who I am outside of societal pressure.

Throughawayman80808 · 2020-09-23T13:32:21+00:00

Superficially feminine behavior is fine, like femine aesthetics such as skinny jeans or guyliner or stuff like that, it's when you get into the actually feminine behaviour, such as expressions of vulnerability, fear, anxiety, sadness, stuff like that where most women are pretty disgusted. That sort of behavior is completely unacceptable from heterosexual men.

Gravel_Roads · 2020-09-23T13:18:01+00:00

Depends on who he wants to date. If he wants a tradcon Christian wife saving herself for marriage, yeah. If he wants a woman who values conformity and or mainstream values, yeah.

It wouldn't affect his dating life if he wanted to date artists, hippies, some bisexuals, "free love" types and other gender-nonconformists. But being nonconformists, they also arent' likely to embrace standard opinions about sex, relationships, monogamy or marriage.

2020-09-23T13:51:52+00:00

Yes it is. While i can't understand why TRP glorifies the traditional family where practical engagements were the norm in todays society a woman can be feminine, can be traditional, can be masculine......she can be all she wants with little to no consequences and almost everything around her will find ways to put it in a positive light and give her words of enrouragement.

A man however either has to stay in line of societal expectations or society and women will find ways to punish him. Either through lack of attraction from womens side or labeling him as a loser. Not to mention in the business world a feminine man will be instantly be taken advantage off because of weak prey etc.

relish5k · 2020-09-23T11:54:30+00:00

Well in a society that sees the feminine as weak and the masculine as strength it will always more so behoove women to adopt masculine traits than for men to adopt feminine traits.

But then again, there's David Bowie so IDK.

LooseIndication · 2020-09-23T12:50:37+00:00

Those aesthetics would be well received by lots of alternative women.

Rock stars wear tight pants and guy liner -and they're swimming in pussy.

peachsphinx · 2020-09-23T12:50:22+00:00

The idea that men being feminine is the worst thing they can be is unfortunately an impact of toxic masculinity in our collective mind, but I think it depends on what age group of women that you’re dating.

If you’re dating younger millennials and gen Z women, men with “feminine” behaviors are considered to be very attractive. Stoicism is extremely unattractive, in many cases, and left-leaning, sensitive types are more popular. Women in this age group (who are dating men of a similar age) are fairly accepting of gender non-conforming men.

But yeah, older women have certain expectations about men that have unfortunately stuck around. I’ve heard both genders express resentment for gender non conforming members of the opposite sex, and it’s a dealbreaker for many people.

12112019 · 2020-09-23T12:52:22+00:00

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Slyfer_Seven · 2020-09-23T13:06:48+00:00

If clothing and appearance are gender norms then no, unless you go to the extremes. Man buns and skinny jeans won't hinder your chances and are feminine. Shaving your body hair won't hinder your chances and is feminine.

If a woman did extreme masculine things. Didn't shave any body hair or wear any makeup, sport a crew cut, wear loose fitting clothing... good luck

2020-09-23T15:51:14+00:00

Undoubtedly. Pretty much the main thing that makes me sceptical of any liberal feminist, and especially male feminist I see because they are no better and often even worse at perpetuating this.

2020-09-23T16:15:21+00:00

I've heard this is rooted in toxic masculinity and how being feminine is the worst thing a guy can be.

Of course it is, because women as a group want men not other women. The same applies to a lot of men, just not as as strong.

I'd love a wife into fishing and competitive video games, but I still want her to look hot so no sweat pants lifestyle or country fat.

A guy who cares about his skin care is fine probably, a guy doing eye shadow, far less so.

CrabBucketSecurity · 2020-09-23T16:37:22+00:00

As a black Irish bi sexual trans woman, I can say that stepping out of gender norms was not a choice for me, if you are stepping out of choice, you probably are a privileged white person. Don’t be a rebel for nothing , be who you is.

GGMcThroway · 2020-09-23T16:42:55+00:00

Well yeah. The assumptions that come with masculinity (being seen as strong, assertive, and competent) are waaaay better than the ones that come with femininity (being seen as weak, passive, and useless outside of wifely duties), even among women.

A metrosexual or any other guy who takes interest in traditionally feminine pursuits needs confidence to pull it off. Any amount of shame will make it backfire, but a don't-give-a-fuck attitude will show that you're very secure in your masculinity. So it can work out pretty well if you play your cards right.

Showing feminine personality traits (like being passive-aggressive or overly accommodating) doesn't work, though, because they're not even seen as good traits in women. Women who are socialized to be doormats get walk all over and then blamed for it. Women who are socialized to be passive-aggressive instead of upfront about their problems are called manipulative and two-faced. Lots of women don't want women to be like that, so why would they want men to be?

NephilimXXXX · 2020-09-23T17:18:44+00:00

Men stepping out of gender norms are much more punished than women are.

I've heard this is rooted in toxic masculinity and how being feminine is the worst thing a guy can be.

No. That's a feminists' attempt to understand it while applying the feminist narrative about how women are always victimized. Women have more freedom than men, but they can't accept that, so they have to try to believe that women are somehow being victimized.

eliechallita · 2020-09-23T18:20:13+00:00

Look at this from the other direction: If you are happy stepping out of these gender norms, then you're better off repelling the people who wouldn't accept that and attracting the people who would support you.

I would rather be single than date someone who would shame me for something that's important to me or makes me happy.

orexinbaby · 2020-09-23T18:49:07+00:00

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2020-09-23T19:42:27+00:00

Yes. Women generally have more freedom in being able to buck gender norms.

I think it's a combination of things at the root of it. Men are generally taken more seriously and regarded as more threatening, so I think deviancy from expect norms gets regarded with greater suspicion.

It's very unfair if you're not a man that naturally fits into this mold.

rumpcloud · 2020-09-23T20:29:50+00:00

>tell woman you want her to provide for you

lol tell me how that works out for you

2020-09-23T22:29:42+00:00

As the old saying goes ... "women already have a pussy, why would they want another one?"

2020-09-24T13:30:22+00:00

Infinitely more harmful unless he's physically attractive.

If you're attractive, you can get away with anything.

Asbelowsoaboveme · 2020-09-24T22:12:32+00:00

In terms of behavior men are more penalized for stepping out of their gender role, especially in showing weakness. In terms of style and appearance, women are more penalized for not following the gendered guidelines. A masculine guy who has a man bun and wears tight genes is sexy af, but a feminine girl who doesn’t shave her arm pits but does shave her head is almost unanimously viewed as unattractive. A girl in a sundress who likes sports and video games is seen as an ideal unicorn.

Willow-girl · 2020-09-25T05:40:07+00:00

I think it's definitely harder for men.

Women tend to be rewarded for adopting many (although not all) aspects of masculinity.

justanaccountforme2 · 2020-10-02T05:41:21+00:00

I think guys are more manly and hot when they go out of the gender norms personally. "Macho" men are actually sensitive little babies and are so scared of being viewed as less than or gay. While more feminine guys are tough as hell and don't care what the outside world thinks, and thats true confidence and hot as hell. Guy puts on some makeup, yes. Guy wears a skirt from time to time, yes. A guy paints his nails, yes. I hate men who have bodies like Channing Tatum, yuck. Though he is personally great because he doesn't care either.

Like when Brad Pitt wore a dress and had fun with it, or we have guys like Ezra Miller. Thats what we like to see. The more gender norms they break, the more of a man they are to me.

2020-09-23T13:16:38+00:00

Men all the time complain about women with short hair and not feminine behaviour. They also complain that women don't like splitting bill. But they can't have it both. You rather have feminine woman or you split bill.

nemma88 · 2020-09-23T12:34:38+00:00

I always see so many people hate on men wearing makeup, skinny jeans, yoga pants etc... saying "I want to date a real man, not a pansy"

I've never heard this, and ime it doesn't seem to hurt at all - there was that whole man bun thing and women throwing themselves at the man buns. I don't get it personally, I never get it but there's plenty of women who like this sort of fashion thing in their men too, they are the popular youtubers among women etc. Really IMO there's a whole generation that like this more than the previous and as long as they are attractive type they always have a gaggle of women fawning over them.

9/10 times someone complaining about a feminine guy is a dude, and I've only ever seen this online.

I would say though might be less of a thing in America. Like you have all the Ron Swanson guy stuff going on with your grilling and hunting and probably more steeped in the whole gender role and preconceived 'This is what a man is'. That stuff is really American type thing.

ScummyMan12 · 2020-09-23T11:46:42+00:00

You expressly mentioned make up and yoga pants, which are HARD gender norms. They are equally harmful, thinking the female equivalent of that would be not shaving any body hair and working as a trucker

TheLotusLover · 2020-09-23T11:47:32+00:00

If it's in a guise to get closer to the opposite sex I'm sure its harmful

wtknight · 2020-09-23T14:17:08+00:00

I don’t think that it’s a death sentence for a guys dating life to be feminine. Some women like more feminine guys. Many do not, though, so dating will be tougher for a more feminine guy. Still, if he has looks, charisma and status, then many women won’t care too much how feminine he is.

For a woman, being a masculine woman is fine if she looks good and she likes having sex. That’s all most guys care about since they’re so thirsty. If the masculine part of her gives her an unpleasant personality too, that will make things tougher for her to find a long-term relationship, but not sex.

memento_moria · 2020-09-23T13:03:33+00:00

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2020-09-23T14:44:24+00:00

I think many males could improve their dating life by something as simple as growing their hair long.

The numbers differ from poll to poll, but most find something that about half of females prefer males to have long hair over short but the real issue here is competition; there are so few males with long hair that it's diving into a market with the same demand, but far less supply.

I think another issue is this:

I always see so many people hate on men wearing makeup, skinny jeans, yoga pants etc...

I think the problem with this is that many seem to assume that males wearing makeup by necessity have to do so in a flamboyant style that few females do; in reality something more subtle such as this is een as a rather big improvement by many.

analt223 · 2020-09-24T02:34:06+00:00

of course. Masculinity is "so fragile" because women dont deem enough men fuckable

Title	Do you think stepping out of gender norms is more harmful for a man's dating life than a womans?
Author	orexinbaby
Upvotes	28
Comments	204
Date	September 23, 2020 11:37 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/iy8fh5/do_you_think_stepping_out_of_gender_norms_is_more/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-you-think-stepping-out-of-gender-norms-is-more.1194965 https://theredarchive.com/post/1194965

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