Guys who went from bad, to good with holding conversations, tell us how you did it.

amadeus_x · 2014-08-09T12:26:56+00:00

I think that there's a deeper problem behind the problem of not being able to hold conversations, and it's basically fear of screwing up. If you're afraid of that, and you're constantly thinking about what to say next, you're essentially missing the conversation and it will inevitably become shallow. Once you learn to let go of that fear, and allow yourself to just be in the moment and accept whatever happens, you can make a real connection. Just look her deep in the eyes and try to "feel her", if that makes sense. Show your true reactions and ask whatever you're really interested in, without being afraid that things might not work out.

On a more practical note, this mindset usually makes me 1) repeat part of what she said with a question mark (which is a nice way to say "tell me more about that, whatever you think is interesting about that"), 2) make assumptions about her personality or how she feels about something, or 3) misinterpret something that she said in a way that I find funny.

Also, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeMYR6AVWw8

IpickupGrandmothers · 2014-08-09T12:53:22+00:00

Practice, practice, practice.
It's not about the actual words. Feel good in my own body, and that way the girl feels good and engaged.
Accept that awkwardness happens, and that it's okay.
Genuinely want to talk to them. If you're having a conversation while getting in your head worrying about your self-image (e.g. worried about being awkward, saying the wrong things, etc.), then you're not being genuine. You're placing more importance on your self-image over your desire to converse with her and listen to her.

I feel like you're stuck on looking for a technique or routine, but I think you're asking the wrong questions. Because it's not about the actual words you use, but the "vibe" you bring to the interaction. If you're feeling good, relaxed, and altruistically dominant, chances are, you will never run out of things to say.

jahvoncreamcone · 2014-08-09T18:06:13+00:00

Mate, you're looking at it from the wrong way and ironically that same wrong way is crippling you in multiple ways.

STOP THINKING LOGICALLY.

This is social interaction, it's not fucking logical. This isn't some 'skill' you can analyze and find a method to and attempt to replicate. There is no mathematical theorem to make you be able to speak charismatically. This isn't a programming language where you work within a system. It is expression of self. The same way you couldn't apply a system to an art piece, is the same way you can't systematically interact socially.

You already know every answer to those questions. How? Because you went to a public school and have witnessed thousands of hours of human interaction and behavior.

Start thinking emotionally. Things in social interaction aren't logical. It's all about your flow and vibe and expressing yourself. Stop thinking with your head and start flowing. Your brain kills your social interactions. Fuck your brain. Start thinking from deep within and drown out your brains over-analysis.

As for getting 'better' at conversation. It just comes with opening up as a person and accepting who you are. It comes with being non-reaction seeking, out-come independent and being in "state".

celloist · 2014-08-09T11:55:59+00:00

One method that works is the snowball effect you just keep talking about the first thing that comes to mind if your chocking up you can even talk about that(go meta) you can even talk about how its hard to talk about things

zerogravityii · 2014-08-09T15:35:03+00:00

Improv.

gigitygigitygoo · 2014-08-09T15:38:22+00:00

Read sales books...principles are very similar.

D49A1D852468799CAC08 · 2014-08-09T13:30:59+00:00

Practice, and just talk like a fucking idiot. Girls will lap that shit up.

choc_is_back · 2014-08-09T14:24:37+00:00

I've been meaning to write a post about this very subject, but didn't get around to it. Here is something you almost never hear in tips about making conversation, and I think it damages things:

It's ok to talk about yourself.

Of course, listening to the other person and showing genuine interest is extremely important as well, but you've read that already a million times.

What is so powerful about the above fact, is that it is what friends do. If you run into a friend, you talk about yourself and invite the other person's opinions, and then let them talk about themselves, etc...

I think the common wisdom of letting the other person talk about themself, has the bad side effect that people are scared of talking about themselves. But it's ok. You're an interesting person. You have done and thought interesting things, and 'opening up' is a great subtle indication that you trust the other person, and value their opinion. If you don't know what to say, talk about a recent cool experience you had, thing you are trying to learn, whatever.

Of course, don't over do it.

Tl;dr: talk about yourself, it's ok.

PsychedPsyche · 2014-08-09T20:26:22+00:00

Being a good listener is what really has increased my conversational success. It's not just about letting her speak but being engaged in what she's saying, and asking the right questions. What I mean by asking the right questions is that you shouldn't ask her stuff just for the sake of keeping the convo going, but you should really put some thought into your questions and then they should provoke thoughtful/interesting answers. If you can do this, then it's not hard to share parts of yourself that relate to what she's saying and tell her some of your stories. This is all you really need to make good convo. And of course, don't forget to sprinkle in a healthy amount of kino, eye contact, and humor.

SecretStorage · 2014-08-09T12:16:03+00:00

I was just about to start another topic that would be very similar, which would be "What topics to steer clear off?"

In my experience, talking about just about anything works fine as long as:

You don't bombard the girl with a series of questions non stop, like it is some sort of an interview. It is even better to go silent for a few short moments rather than keep asking random stuff. There is no such thing as awkward silence really unless you are very socially awkward, which would be very few.
Talking about work seems to be a luring topic first but so far it turned out to be for me a huge no-no. It really runs the conversation into the ground in two minutes like literally nothing else. It could be because most people don't like their jobs, chances are many of us have some unresolved baggage going on at any given time, which does not make us happy to be reminded of. Sometimes, even if you like your job you'd still rather not to talk about it anyway because the stuff you do is not very accessible to those who are not in the area (I am a software developer, as an example).

On the opposite side, if you are a student, talking about college should be just fine, especially if you go to the same place. But then again, if either of you hate your course, then maybe it would not be something to go on about.

Tee_Hee_Wat · 2014-08-09T20:36:14+00:00

I'm gonna quote the GoT author on this one "You know, I've always considered women to be people..."

paohi · 2014-08-09T12:21:07+00:00

Most of the attraction happens on a nonverbal level. Keep in mind most of what you say doesn't matter.being confident in what you are saying is key

DaygameCoach · 2014-08-09T12:38:30+00:00

If you are doing the first 3 then 4 is taken care of.

Talk about things you are passionate about (as long as they are topics that work with women). You probably don't want to talk about taxidermy or your mold collection. Your ambitions work too. Food, travel, music, (chick friendly) movies/tv, adventure sports, fashion, pets, etc., work. If you write DHV stories and memorize them...you will always have material to use. Doing this is building attraction.

You also need to sexually escalate.

Kolbykilla · 2014-08-09T14:02:08+00:00

Listen to what they have to say and react off of that, don't get in your head and distracted trying to come up with another question to ask. Typically as soon as I see someone I could make a move on I think of 4-5 things I could instantly say. But its fairly easy to keep a convo going especially at a venue their are numerous questions you can ask as to why they are there? Who they are with? Where they are from? What's their story? Hobbies ect.

Terakahn · 2014-08-09T14:44:17+00:00

I have this problem where I have a lot of girls say I'm creepy but it seems random and I don't know what's causing it. But the rest of the time it's pretty flirtatious and fun both ways.

2014-08-09T15:48:25+00:00

If the conversation dies, push them to talk a little bit. Make them work for it too. Your responsibility isn't to entertain them without reciprocity.

sunchow · 2014-08-09T17:33:23+00:00

read fiction for thirty minutes a day. or at least knock out a novel a month. it is a very simple and underutilized form of enrichment for all aspects of life. this advice should take you far beyond the pettiness that can be commonly found with human interaction, and like magnets you will be drawn towards positive outlooks and interactions though bleak the future is for all

Locupleto · 2014-08-09T14:27:50+00:00

Put yourself in their shoes, be a good experience for them.

Listen to them. Ask question about them.

When you speak, be: Informative Interesting or Funny

EndOfTheUniverse · 2014-08-09T15:52:32+00:00

Got better by not thinking while I'm having a conversation. Going into my head is not allowed.

How? Practice, practice, practice. Talk more. Read more (so you know more shit). Write more if you can (so you know how shit relates to one another).

Don't be scared to take risks during conversation. Counter intuitively taking risks, saying something that might fall flat on its face, or teasing someone, can make you enter flow ("in state" or "god mode" in PUA terms)

cruyff8 · 2014-08-09T17:36:11+00:00

You don't need to "hold" conversations, to wit, from last night:

> Me: Hiya... been some time, innit? > Her: I don't know, has it? > Me: Indeed, it has, you don't remember me? Shame on you...... > Her: Sorry, I don't. > Me: No worries, neither do I, my name's Bond, Zaf Bond. > Her: Good to meet you, I'm Alice. > Me: Alice... that's a brilliant name! What's your background? > Her: I'm half Asian, half German and yourself? > Me: I's half black and half, well, black (note, I'm not black, I'm half Arab/half white) > Her: I don't believe you. > Me: What? Is you racialist? *pretend to be offended* > Her: Why yes, I'm racist, aren't you? > Me: Very much so, I hate those half Martian people that steal the cute girls I chat up in the queue outside the club with their weird Martian mind tricks. > Her: hahaha... Well, it's been real... > Me: See, they're at it again, silly martians *raises fist at sky* -- you must resist, Alice, don't let them control you. > Her: hahahahahahaha.... hey, nice jacket. > Me: Many thanks. I like a woman who can laugh, laughter makes the world happier and that's sorely needed these days. > Her: I know -- it's such a shame what's happening in Xinjiang. > Me: Exactly, and the deputy PM in Turkey says women shouldn't laugh. WTF is that about? > Her: WHAT? Really? How dare they say such a thing? I wouldn't survive for a minute there *giggle* > Me: I know.. he's obviously smoking the same shit Rob Ford is. > Her: Rob Ford? > Me: never mind, so tell me more about Xinjiang? Pardon the ignorance, start off with where it is, please?

She turned out to be a student-activist for Xinjianese independence while studying Central Asian history. After that, we talked a little about the Great Game between Britain, the US and Russia for control of Azeri oil. We did a little dancing, got a few drinks. The point is that you don't have to be serious. My name's not Zaf, much less Zaf Bond, but no one cares about that. I hadn't met her before.

cwdoogie · 2014-08-09T17:44:24+00:00

Give a shit.

B_Polar · 2014-08-09T17:58:04+00:00

Lower the bar! Take that filter and toss it, just say anything on your mind. What you have to say is more important than anyone else, regardless of what they think about it.

PowerSeductionWar · 2014-08-09T18:40:32+00:00

Go in there with the intention of GIVING.

You set the context, the rhythm, everything. You are there to share something and if they want to contribute, good. But they shouldn't have to.

You cannot go wrong as long as they aren't occupied with something because you are giving value. You are not interrogating or trying to take any reaction out of them. You are just giving them an experience.

Don't seek a technique on how to actually talk to the person, instead seek out experiences to SHARE with people.

BallsOfSteeeeel · 2014-08-09T19:10:18+00:00

I failed and failed and failed, but kept approaching and stuck with it. Eventually after enough practice you get better. Just like with anything in life.

A lot of it is the non-verbals though. When YOU are comfortable being yourself and especially being comfortable in silence, it doesn't matter what is said. That will come naturally. Girls suck at silence. That's how you build dat tension.

When you guys are staying in one place, there isn't as much to talk about. Move around and your surroundings will change = more shit around you to talk about. + it's always easier to escalate while moving.

Rock_out_Cock_in · 2014-08-09T19:13:22+00:00

I worked in sales where we're constantly told to ask open ended questions and get comfortable for waiting for a response to those questions.

Really just work in sales, keep interesting hobbies, keep up with the local news, and remember people's names. If one of your hobbies is fitness related and social you're golden.

bloodbag · 2014-08-09T19:19:25+00:00

Backpacking around the world

TheBuffman · 2014-08-09T20:20:14+00:00

I might get buried but i looked at it from a completely selfish standpoint. "This person knows something about something i find interesting and 1)its my job to find it and 2)i want to hear about it." You can do this by actually looking at the person and see how they choose to present themselves, ask probing questions, find out what they are interested in, and ask about that. People love to talk about things they are passionate about and people love to talk about themselves. If they dont want to talk to you then move on. If they do enjoy talking to you then its sign of a possible friendship/relationship.

If you have given a good faith effort to find something interesting and if there isnt anything interesting about that person then thats a person you dont want to talk to. If there is something interesting and they dont have the time then thats something else.

This has helped me out immensely. At the core its about being curious. I want to know what kind of stain on this planet this person is going to leave and i want them to tell me about it. How do i unearth that nugget of info?

TheoreticalFunk · 2014-08-09T20:26:54+00:00

I've gone from bad to fairly alright. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that I've been doing interviews at work for the past six years or so. However, if you make things like an interview, you're going to seem boring or like you're trying to check things off a list...

Listening is more important than talking. Genuinely want to know more about the other person. However, if they ask you a question, answer it.

Be alright with silence. This is hard, but can be overcome. It's alright to just be in the moment and enjoy it. Hey, that's something to talk about... go with it.

If you feel you're forcing it, talk about how that's annoying and you're there to have fun... you can segue into shots at this point (as it's your idea, you buy) or some other locale appropriate activity.

Basically all this boils down to, be confident, never be change adverse and just roll with what feels real and now.

2014-08-09T20:49:57+00:00

Keep it light and fun. You have to be in a state of amusement just toying around not taking anything serious while still maintaining course and properly show which direction you're heading. Don't be afraid to next a girl if she doesn't seem to be interested in the same thing as you even though you 2 have a great vibe going. Make jokes, laugh about shit, don't respond to shittests or A&A them.

Most important thing is that you have fun and don't actively take the "oh I need to hook up and game girls" stance. In your mind you don't really need anyone and instead of looking for ways to qualify yourself (what kind of guys do you like, have you ever dated a guy that does X, what do you think about guys with Y) but instead, finds what's so special about them. Tell her to convince you why you would even wanna meet her, play hard to get (no baby I'm not looking for a relationship or sex you can't have me etc.).

I once opened a girl with "I know something we can do". She responded with " don't tell me if it involves sex". From there on I called her a perv and say women can only think about sex, etc.. I reversed the roles and gave her shit for being a perverted little fuck. By the end of the week she was begging me to put it up her butthole while we were still doing the "you filthy girl"-thing.

Enjoy yourself. See them as a form of entertainment. Have fun.

Edit: oh and be fucking original with the questions. Don't do shit like " what do you do, what do you study, etc." I use these:

tell me something you're looking forward to. Body part you're most proud of. Craziest shit you've ever done.

Instead of asking questions, tell her to answer your questions.

"How old are you" becomes "tell me how old you are" or "tell me your age".

LotsOfButtons · 2014-08-09T21:40:54+00:00

Practice.

SillyAmerican · 2014-08-09T21:55:23+00:00

I think once you realize you are conversing for YOUR entertainment and not the entertainment of others it will start to come naturally. You are not the jester in your audiences court.

SpaceToaster · 2014-08-09T21:55:49+00:00

Have conversations. A lot of them. With everybody.

shitsfuckedupalot · 2014-08-09T22:10:16+00:00

Listened, mostly. Avoid uninteresting topics, or make it known you think say talking about celebrities bores you, or anything like that. Avoid uninteresting people as well. I also tried to tell more stories.

DumpyLips · 2014-08-09T22:11:33+00:00

I don't know where I was before and where I'm at now but I can definitely say that one of the best things that's helped me is talking to people as though we were just in the middle of a conversation and I had to go to the bathroom but now I'm back.

2cats2hats · 2014-08-09T22:13:01+00:00

I'll try.

First off, if I find the person I am conversing with isn't conversational I don't waste much time with them.

I always ask how someone is doing. Some answer the question and ask you the same thing. I usually joke my way through this question by saying "almost flawless" or "part of the 99%" or something like that. This helps me determine if the other person is OK with humour off the bat.

Depends on the gender. A woman, I will always find something to compliment. Shoes, how their nails are done, their smile. A man, it depends on how I know of them... I might lightly discuss careers but again, depends on the person. If they are an artist or musician I'll go left field and they are usually the best with oddball conversations.

Smiling helps with that. Sensuality and body language are your best keys here...building attraction can be easier without saying many words.

I am no expert, but yeah I can talk to anyone if I am in the mood.

Kardlonoc · 2014-08-09T22:57:30+00:00

I had a job going door to door talking with strangers. I think my biggest social break through was learning to not only talk to strangers but that people fear strangers and talking as much as you do.

You can say smile, nod and say hi to people on the street. You can start conversations in lines about inane things or with random people. Anything that's on your head or you are wondering.

What to talk about

I use FORD

Family Occupation Recreation Dreams

Any of those topics can extend into other topics:

"Oh you have a sister? You say shes in college? What college? How is that going for her? Oh haha, I went through the same thing funny quip" etc.

You can FORD yourself as well. You don't want to talk about yourself too much but yes you want to talk about yourself and what your do. Your dreams and passions are important.

How to keep the conversation going

It might sound a little autist but you can literally say whatever is on your mind to keep a conversation going. Be observant about whats going on and comment about it. But obviously you should pick strong interesting topics of conversations, things you are both versed in and can draw opinions from.

How to verbally build attraction

You slowly (or quickly depending on the time frame) start incorpating sex into the conversation. You also comment on how first she is sexy. Stuff like kissing, groping, tits, dicks, nakendess, fetishes, sex, your opinon about it and what she thinks about it. These are the topics that lift you from platonic to romantic.

There are whole guides here about doing this. Literally this entire sub is about basically building attraction. You just need to understand if you don't say those sexy things, it will remain platonic.

Getting past small talk

I hated small talk once too, but really its a comfort zone for a lot of people. Conversations are building trust with words. Trust is a two way street were people exchange things so they can trust each other more. You wouldnt hand over your car and keys to a total stranger would you? No, you would first talk to them and little by little you could trust them enough they wouldnt steal your car.

Its very odd you list "how to keep a conversation going" and "getting past small talk" in the same list. Conversations begin with a single idea or thought, that is small talk, and can extend into hour or even longer into something else.

If you can a ton of small talk with a girl and she seems interested its just as good as having a deep conversation.

admirals_go_nuts · 2014-08-09T23:52:40+00:00

Talk about what you do where you are from, anything, but give plenty of facial expressions, small talk is all you need to kiss a girl. The smirk is killer. Be cool and it won't matter what you say. But how you say it.

Endoss · 2014-08-10T00:13:08+00:00

Talk about anything and everything. If you run out of things to talk about, ask a question and shut the Fuck up to listen to the full answer. Remember things that were already said.

Just talk to them. Have a fun conversation.

time_and_again · 2014-08-10T01:16:00+00:00

Get a friend or two who go out and chat girls up and go with them. Every night you go, try to talk to people, either at the bar, near the pool table, in the smoking area, anywhere really. It doesn't matter what you say or how long you say it, just try to chat. It'll feel awkward at first, but worst case scenario is they get bored and walk away. I had one girl give me the talk-to-the-hand thing on a crowded dance floor, but almost every other interaction has been--at worst--polite and agreeable. So your only real challenge is going beyond that. And again, worst case scenario, you spend the night having pleasant, but boring chats and drinking with your friends. That's not that bad.

Most conversations will start with something about where you live/work, where are you from originally, what do you do on weekends, etc. If they say anything on those topics you relate to, just latch onto it and talk more about it. If you have a good chat, ask for her number. Rinse and repeat until it's second nature and you start getting more bold.

And don't get caught up in results early on. I'm still in the slim pickings part of my game where I can approach pretty well and get numbers, but don't really inspire much of a response beyond that. That's okay, no matter where you're at, just make going out and chatting the goal until it's second-nature.

2014-08-10T02:31:37+00:00

I got a job in retail with a high interpersonal requirement, either adapt or get fired I had no choice.

OnTheWayToPUA · 2014-09-01T09:09:05+00:00

Two of the biggest things that I found help me with conversation are:

1) Learning to branch of key words. for example, if she says she spent last summer going travelling when she finished college, here you have the opportunity to ask about what she's studying, what university she attends, where did she go travelling, does she like it, who did she like it, what was her favourite please she visited. I find the best way to keep the conversation going is too keep this in mind but don't just ask anything for the sake of it if one aspect really interest you try branching off to that.

2) learn to be comfortable in the silence. Most people feel pressure when there is a lull in the conversation, it's not only guys it's girls too, if a quiet patch does appear just relax and take a minute to think, don't just try say anything for the sake of it.

TissueReligion · 2014-08-09T15:31:38+00:00

Transitions are unnecessary.
Nobody will ever question why you are telling them about anything.
Don't talk about rape, murder, or spiders.
Record yourself talking a bit conversationally, to check if you vary your pitch. If you are monotonous, consciously start varying your pitch.

DudeIsALPHA · 2014-08-09T15:03:48+00:00

LOOKING FOR SHIT TO TALK AFUCKINGBOUT!?? F.O.R.D! FAMILY! OCCUPATION! RECREATION! DREAMS

2014-08-09T16:07:37+00:00

For the attitude: practice. I had an account on Badoo, which is a shitty dating site where 99% of guys are looking for hookups and can't conversate their dick out of their hands. I had conversations with a SHITLOAD of women, and they love guys who can hold a conversation rather than just suggesting meet-ups, hook-ups etc.

For the conversational content: Culture. Education. If you don't have those, you're going to be boring.

SleepyInternetBear · 2014-08-09T18:33:51+00:00

I stopped supplication. I started just talking about whatever I wanted. A conversation isn't always sequential. Topics are random, self amuse.

Talk about whatever interests you. If she's boring as fuck, stop talking to her. Ask genuine questions, give genuine non pc answers. I don't do small talk, I try to have a real conversation everytime I talk. I'm not ashamed of who I am and what I stand for. That helped me the most. I'm not scared of rejection.

Title	Guys who went from bad, to good with holding conversations, tell us how you did it.
Author	jahvoncreamcone
Upvotes	171
Comments	75
Date	August 9, 2014 10:30 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/2d278w/guys_who_went_from_bad_to_good_with_holding/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/guys-who-went-from-bad-to-good-with-holding.1374823 https://theredarchive.com/post/1374823

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