Game is really just flirting

Xazax310 · 2020-01-06T18:01:46+00:00

That's a no brainer the problem is most guys DON'T know how to flirt or do so in a way that builds attraction/interaction. hence why we have PUA books/programs/youtube vids... and this Subreddit. I agree most people want that "magic pill" where they are instantly transformed... shit takes time, years even.

I'll disagree with you on the coaching, sometimes you need someone who's going to push you outside your comfort zone. That's what coaches do. Additionally buying the right books are great way to educate yourself. (Way of Superior man, Men are mars women from Venus, I enjoyed Corey Wayne's 3% man)

Moikepdx · 2020-01-06T17:43:01+00:00

FUCK YEAH BRO

Danielitoa27 · 2020-01-06T21:06:43+00:00

I think game really is flirting but I think the way you put it was wrong . I think there’s a middle ground where a girl doesn’t find you unattractive but she doesn’t find you attractive either and you can work with that. Cause tbh I’m not the most attractive guys. I actually feel pretty average and I’ve had a bit of success with game.

Moikepdx · 2020-01-06T21:14:23+00:00

I know you mean well, and for the right people, this is good advice. But it isn't universally true, and it is terrible advice for others.

Many of the people on this sub are absolute beginners. They lack confidence, social calibration, and may not have worked on other aspects of their life to increase their attractiveness.

This post tells them "None of you need coaching or to buy more products." That's likely true for 95% of people. But it's less true for the people that seek out this sub. They are coming here because what they are doing now isn't working (or isn't working good enough).

A repeated mantra here is "approach more". But there is an often unspoken component of this advice. Just approaching more is beating your head against a wall. You have to learn from your approaches and improve to get the best results. If you don't know your flaws, it's a lot harder to work on them. If you have a good friend that can point them out (even if it's by laughing at you), at least you know what to work on. But not everyone has that. And some people's friends are as clueless as they are.

There is a place for coaching. There is a place for books. You've admitted as much by referencing "cold reads", which are not something that the average person does instinctively.

As for the attraction thing: I have seen very handsome men fail. And I have seen below-average men succeed beyond anything I thought possible. There is much more to attraction than looks and instant connection.

Fun example: There was a great psychological study conducted to determine whether pheromones (scents that signal fertility or arousal in other animals) could affect human attraction. The experiment took sets of twins and applied pheromone scents to only one twin. Then they introduced the twins - control scent first, then the pheromone twin, to a person of the opposite sex and asked that person to evaluate the attractiveness of each twin. The researchers initially found the pheromone twin was consistently rated higher. But then they reversed the introductions so the pheromone twin went first. Now the twin without the pheromones was rated higher. It turned out that being second was the advantage, not the pheromones. People were more attracted to someone slightly more familiar.

What does this mean for approaching? A slight bit of familiarity may increase your attractiveness. You can put this into play in a bar or club setting by noticing someone you like, then talking to someone they are with, letting the person see the interaction. The initial approach isn't to the target, so it doesn't make the target feel uncomfortable. And when you approach directly later, you are already slightly familiar, thereby increasing your attractiveness.

The bottom line is that we are all in different places in our journeys, so there is no single "right" answer. This is a forum for spreading ideas, encouraging self-improvement, building confidence, sharing stories, asking for (and getting) advice, etc. Some people need to hear "Stop reading and get out there!" Others are just beginning.

It sounds like you may be to the point of having success without the need to keep checking in here for more advice. Fantastic! Share your successes!

friendlyheathenn · 2020-01-06T20:31:14+00:00

anyone else have no clue what all these terms fucking mean

Alex_O7 · 2020-01-06T19:31:22+00:00

I have mixed feelings about this.

A part of the post is completely reasonable and i agree with that. The last part and the first. It's a number game, approach more and that stuff.

But, there is a part of the post that i don't agree with that much. I my life, before i know something about game i (almost) NEVER have a girl attracted to me, no matter what i did, how good i look, and whatever i said. So two things left: 1) we just assume that someone could born with (almost) ZERO flirting skills and in general social skills with women, so game is just to put back on track guys; 2) we have to admit that saying the right thing in the right time with the right body language, actually play a role.

I think that of course if a girl completely dislike you and you are not her type at all, you could do nothing to seduce her. Meanwhile, if a girl is just neutral toward you, what you say and how you say it does play a role to seduce her. So the truth is in the middle.

ImJustSo · 2020-01-06T19:37:30+00:00

That's just like...your opinion, man.

Naw, you don't have to spend money, or need a coach, but a lot of that other stuff? Bullshit, in my opinion.

I am very aware of IOIs, so I can tell when a woman becomes attracted to me. I can tell if they're immediately attracted, but many times they're just luke warm. Saying that I have no power over that sounds silly as fuck from my past experiences.

I know that when I started, I just wasn't as attractive as I am now. Even if my looks got me in the door, my mouth got the door slammed in my face every time.

Now? Now I can talk women into threesomes, because I know the right things to say to make that attractive and it's what I want. All I have to do is be attractive, then be seductive, and on top of that sell an idea that something out of the norm is also attractive. Before I couldn't even make just the thought of fucking me attractive.

So, I disagree wholeheartedly. Game isn't just looks and it's not just flirting with someone that already thinks you're attractive.

grrinchas · 2020-01-06T21:03:20+00:00

Its like saying "Fruit is an apple".

Flirting is a part of the GAME and not the game itself.

throwawy_12262017 · 2020-01-06T22:37:21+00:00

Agree with most of this except "girls like guys who are humorous". I've read (will link if I find it) that girls find guys they are attracted to humorous, not vice versa. Sure, exceptions and all that, but in general humor, by itself, did not cause attraction. Rather, girls were more likely to find whatever inane bullshit the guy was saying to be funny if she already liked him. Besides, the humor girls like the best is light teasing and they do not like this if they are not attracted to you.

GeeseCTM · 2020-01-06T21:28:51+00:00

Man I literally just wrote about my game works and my post is too long so it won't go up.

Tl;Dr

No, it absolutely is not just a numbers game and a guy can learn to be way more attractive and get those girls who are neutral or not even interested. Yes, there is a definite amount of girls who just won't like you and there's nothing you can do, but other than that, a guy can absolutely get girls who are lukewarm, or even just neutral to become attracted by using game.

EGO_PON · 2020-01-07T08:55:59+00:00

The truth has been spoken! I've come to the same conclusion after 2 years of reading and watching PUA stuff. I do not mean they are not useful, on the contrary, I've learned so many things from them but the truth is what you need is just trying more and finding a person who finds you attractive.

InlicitusDio · 2020-01-06T23:28:25+00:00

Hey man, thank you for this it's really helpful and you're 100% right.

When I'm meeting women in person I think I do pretty well, they tend to enjoy my company.

However the problem I have is really texting. I fail miserably at it.. The other day I went out dancing... Danced with this hot girl and her friend. At the end of the party she came to me and asked for my Instagram. I texted her and she never replied... Also it's not the first time this happened. 🤷‍♂️

2020-01-07T02:05:03+00:00

None of you need coaching or to buy more products.

I disagree here. I do agree with you that most of the coaches are a load of BS and essentailly snake oil salesman trying to get a few bucks out of desperate men. But these coaches do have their place and can really help a lot of men as a lot as this stuff does not come naturally to them. I for example am a really late bloomer (I was really shy and quiet for most of my life) just simple socialising and how to talk to a girl has taken me a long time to learn. Its also significantly harder to learn as you get older. A lot of people who were social when they were younger (especially in high school) take all this for granted but I am one of the ones who barely/never talked to women at high school and just lucked myself into getting a girlfriend when I was in my early 20s. I really only started making an effort to get out of my shell in my late 20s and luckily I have a thick skin and can get through the rejections. Another guy who has taken a similar path to me might not have that thick skin or be more socially awkward than I was and thats where a coach could really help them with body language, giving them ideas on what to say, tell them what they did wrong or even just inspiring them to get out their shell.

kch69 · 2020-01-07T02:42:37+00:00

I think true "game" is knowing what skills to improve on and mindsets such as,not getting too attached,being mysterious, conversation skills,knowing how to physically flirt and knowing there are more then 3,000,000,000 fish in the sea.

Honestly in my opinon its about realising the mistakes you make and changing them. Thats the shit that really helps a man.

axe122 · 2020-01-07T04:47:02+00:00

I agree that game technique is basically a systematic way of flirting. It basically get the ball rolling while you build confidence.

That’s why so many of the top coaches and books talk about the inner game cuz that’s ultimately what gets you a lot more options. You need the outer game stuff to feed to inner game though in the beginning. No amount of reading about being good with women or self improvement will make you confident and good with women. It will definitely help get you there faster but you have to interact,approach and use trial and error.

You have to be at least a 5 outa 10 in her eyes for the game stuff to work. You can definitely raise attraction level but you she has to see you as at least a 5. Every girl has slightly different ideas of what attractive.

I think confidence is more important than game but it your not a natural and never developed confidence with women when you were younger your gonna need game to develop it.

The game stuff does work but it works cuz your confident and attractive to her at first approach and you harness and raise her attraction level.

The more attracted to you she is the easier she makes it and the less game stuff you need to apply. It’s hard to fuck it up when a girl is really really attracted to you but it can be done.

I’ve absolutely lost many girls who I knew thought I was cute and attractive when I was younger and blew it by not having a clue how to flirt.

I would only get them if they thought I was hot not just cute or attractive. They liked my look to the point they basically overlooked the fact I had no clue what to say or do and once I slept with them I was a lot more fun and obviously confident cuz I had already been with her.

alphahelix4321 · 2020-01-07T06:18:49+00:00

REAL GOOD SHIT

le_GoogleFit · 2020-01-07T07:42:43+00:00

I totally agree man. There's been a resurgence of people arguing for TRUE game in the form of techniques and all that recently but I don't think it does much.

Either she's somewhat attracted to you or she isn't. If she's then you're just flirting, if she isn't, then no good amount of secret technique is going to change that. If she's not sure, then a few tricks could make a difference but not a fundamental one.

The best you can do from there is just trying to optimize how attractive you are, your chances of meeting the girls that find you attractive and then play the number games by shooting your shots.

Really there's not much more.

FairAnalyst · 2020-01-07T00:36:39+00:00

Attraction is not a numbers game. It’s a skill. Calling it a numbers game is like calling a dude trying to sink shots into a hoop a numbers game.

Attraction is directly correlated to the emotions you make a girl feel when she’s around you. The more you make her feel the more attracted she is.

If your toolbox for making a girl feel stuff is limited to just one way of flirting or only making her feel good. Then you’re severely handicapping yourself. Not all girls are into teasing, not all girls are into banter, she could be into cocky funny, or sexual innuendo, or role playing, etc. The more skillsets you add here - the larger % of girls you can attract.

Its pretty normal for skilled puas to have an attraction rate of 50% or higher.

SouthernOhioRedsFan · 2020-01-07T01:50:14+00:00

99.99% of it is rules one and two.

myelin89 · 2020-01-06T21:37:06+00:00

Can't force attraction but can lose it easily. Still need to know basics, over texting, being needy, etc

theosamabahama · 2020-01-06T22:38:27+00:00

Half of game is flirting. The other half is making you more attractive by things like acting confident and non-needy, knowing how to hold a good conversation and having a fun and interesting life.

But yeah, you don't have to pay for anything and you shouldn't. There is nothing you can pay for that won't teach you something you can learn for free online. Lots of professional coaches have dozens of free videos on youtube that teach you all the concepts and go into detail with examples. Books might help, but again, all of this stuff is already available for free online.

CharacterNote · 2020-01-06T20:14:59+00:00

What does IOI mean?

injesterstrust · 2020-01-06T21:28:15+00:00

100% agree.

no_not_luke · 2020-01-06T22:23:44+00:00

What's an IOI?

Muchado_aboutnothing · 2020-01-07T00:05:04+00:00

I totally agree. Also, you’d be surprised at how many “game” strategies (at least from my perspective, as a woman) seem to be designed to avoid totally freaking the woman out. Like that whole “negging” thing? Yeah, that’s actually called teasing - friends and family members do it to one another all the time, and it’s a pretty key aspect of all romantic relationships, regardless of how long the people have known each other - and it’s also just SO MUCH LESS CREEPY than a guy just walking up to you and showering you with compliments. Imagine if one of your platonic friends just complimented you all the time. You’d think he was a suck-up and get suspicious — he must have some ulterior motive, right?? — and probably get sick of it after awhile. There’s a reason why the closest friends give each other the most shit. Playful teasing is at the center of most close relationships, and it’s a much more socially acceptable behavior than constant flattery.

shinn497 · 2020-01-07T03:02:58+00:00

I agree .... sort of.

Anyway. Flirting isn't easy for many of us. So learning techniques helps a LOT.

omega_kush · 2020-01-07T03:05:59+00:00

One thing that is important is to establish that you have boundaries early...and you can raise attraction...maintaining it is the hard part.

2020-01-07T05:48:03+00:00

When all is said and done, you can't really learn this stuff from material. Success with women is a mental/emotional memory thing. Just like muscle memory but the mental and emotional. I've studied and spent alot of time contemplating game and sexual dynamics for 8 years and I've come to realize flirtation and seduction is far more emotional than it is verbal, physical or mental. This is why many people with highly "mental" orientations can struggle with game. It's not a problem of them being too much in their head but rather too little in their emotion and too little expressing emotion in seduction. To clarify I'm not saying men should "be emotional" but that seduction is won in puppeteering the the mood and energy of the seduced.

crawleycrepe · 2020-01-07T08:38:36+00:00

I tend to dislike most heavily upvoted posts, but this is pretty legit!

positiveboi100000 · 2020-01-07T10:49:45+00:00

Pure skill

ArmitageShanks69 · 2020-01-07T12:58:16+00:00

The bottom line is that your chances of meeting a girl that you are attracted to, and vice-versa, relate to how socially connected you are, i.e. your experience - notwithstanding your level of attractiveness in the natural selection pool.

A lot of guys just miss out on this - physical/environmental factors dictate your path at an early age and there comes a point where you reach a certain age and you become a product of whatever path you're put on (you don't have a choice in the matter when you are at the age of dependence).

For some guys this dynamic will become a normal part of their life, for others it will be alien. Of those who are struggling and are trying to change things for the better few will succeed, and this is because of what you said in your first couple of paragraphs.

2020-01-07T13:06:30+00:00

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE VIBE...if she likes you, she'll make TIME for you...period

TheSassyTroll · 2020-01-08T15:56:38+00:00

Find the girls who are into you

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antiquatedipad · 2020-01-06T19:41:54+00:00

legit post! So much bullshit being peddled by 'coaches' and stuff. It's really pretty simple and everyone already has all the info they need. Go out and apply it (neg her. Or 'self asmuse', or use a few push-pull lines etc) and see for yourself if it works or not (hint: it works when she's into you, but no if she's not)

2020-01-07T00:33:18+00:00

I think you are wrong.

You are assuming attraction is only looks. Attraction especially for a woman is looks and personality a combination of both. Women are more selective than men and look at the entire package, everything you are.

So if everything you are isn't attractive to her then yeah it won't work. However, you are coming from a zero sum game as if you can't be attractive to her. If your game is good, you can make up for things in other areas.

However, yes, if you are throwing your best game out there and she isn't feeling it, she probably will never feel it, in that way you are correct.

However, these feelings change day to day. When I get a good haircut and I am looking good. I can tell I get more attention and women are looking, that in turn makes me more confident which is more attractive.

Best advice, be the best you every day. Follow your feelings they are usually correct.

jorics · 2020-01-07T01:03:10+00:00

Based and redpilled

kimichucas · 2020-01-07T01:25:30+00:00

can't stress this enough man

codex561 · 2020-01-07T13:31:11+00:00

You can’t control attraction? What are you talking about?

This is essentially what PUA is — building attraction. Wtf is this subreddit sometimes?

sotoc20173 · 2020-01-07T02:45:19+00:00

lols this guy. Do you want the politically correct advice or a slap in the face?

You are absolutely right though.. thats why the best coaches are still refining their stuff after decades in the field.

muckbrigade · 2020-01-07T07:15:14+00:00

[permanently deleted]

buckdiggles · 2020-01-07T17:20:56+00:00

The only thing I agree with is that it’s a numbers game. Here are four straight forward examples of how one can take a woman from zero attraction to attraction.
1. At the bar near last call, Girl finds out she was cheated on by her boyfriend. You’re literally the closest dick around. She hooks up with as a revenge fuck. You give her her first orgasm. She is now attracted to you.
2. You see girl in your neighborhood. You say hello she is polite and says hello back but mostly looks through you. The next time you see here you have your dog, which is an exotic breed. She is now attracted to you.
3. Same neighborhood girl, different scenario. Instead of the dog you happen to have extra concert tickets and you just give them to her. She is now attracted to you. 4. You become a billionaire overnight. Women will be attracted to you.
None of these scenarios are based on appearance.

SithLordJediMaster · 2020-01-07T00:56:11+00:00

No it's not.

Game is an escape from the real world

I can be Batman in the Arkham games

I can be Spider-Man in the PS4 game

I can run over people and 5 star wanted level in GTA

I get to be Master Chief killling Covenenat and flood as part of an intergalactic war.

I get to save Princess Peach from her evil castle.

I get to kill Nazi Zombies in Call Of Duty

Having a girl to play games with is just a bonus

GeeseCTM · 2020-01-06T21:22:26+00:00

🤦‍♂️

Title	Game is really just flirting
Author	muckbrigade
Upvotes	689
Comments	125
Date	January 6, 2020 5:29 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/ekx8cb/game_is_really_just_flirting/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/game-is-really-just-flirting.1428352 https://theredarchive.com/post/1428352

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