Let’s talk about financial abuse.

PurplePillDebate-ModTeam · 2024-05-25T02:20:07+00:00

This post has been removed for being designed as a circlejerk and to induce rhetoric. Please resubmit your post flaired as a “Debate” where you expect to have your view challenged or resubmit your post with neutral wording to have the mods approve it. Any further questions should go to modmail.

bluestjuice · 2024-05-24T22:20:15+00:00

You’re going to need to be more explicit about what you mean by men sharing the fruits of their labor without consent.

sublimemongrel · 2024-05-24T22:25:35+00:00

What? That’s not what financial abuse means

fucksiclepizza · 2024-05-24T22:53:27+00:00

Sexual needs for men are equivalent to sex needs for women, financial needs for men are equivalent to financial needs for women.

Zabadoodude · 2024-05-24T22:34:44+00:00

Some people will throw around the word "abuse" and "narcissistic" whenever they don't get their way in a relationship. Real financial abuse is when the abuser prevents their victim from being financially independent, then withholds the money to get what they want. It's not when your rich boyfriend won't pay for your stuff.

Most relationships aren't the man offers money and the woman offers sex. Most women enjoy sex in their relationship, and also contribute financially. Surveys of married couples show that most still have sex regularly. Even in old age.

Horned-Beast · 2024-05-24T23:13:26+00:00

If the couple agrees with her staying.home, and she spends her time, energy and loving takes care if their home, children and supports him.

If the marriage is dissolved he absolutely should make arrangements to see to her needs at least until she remarries OR is able to train for a career or job to take care of herself.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-05-24T23:19:57+00:00

women are there for financial security.

You’re already starting off with an assumption I’m pretty skeptical about. This may have been true at one time, but not so much anymore.

“Financial abuse” does not refer to someone refusing to share one’s own money with a spouse who is able to support themselves. It generally means either taking the money your partner earns themselves so they don’t have access to it, or requiring your partner to quit their job (to be a SAHM for example) when they don’t wish to, or refusing to compensate them for their labor at home. In other words, you’re actively preventing your partner from earning or saving money.

apresonly · 2024-05-24T22:38:37+00:00

you can survive without sex.

you cannot survive without money.

Economy-Shake-1448 · 2024-05-24T23:18:31+00:00

If two people are married, then in the eyes of the law, and in culture, they are a family unit.

If you agree to have your wife be a stay at home mom, it doesn’t magically change that you are a family unit with one another. Everything is shared. You have every right to pick a woman with her own career and assets who is less likely to take a portion of what you make. You also have every right to insist that your wife do not be a stay at home mom to reduce splitting up everything in the event of a divorce.

But the thing is, assets earned while married are shared while married. If you don’t like it, then either marry someone who will make their own money and work, severely reduce what you make, or don’t get married.

twistednormz · 2024-05-24T22:27:12+00:00

Let’s talk about financial abuse.

Ok, but nothing in the body of your post is about financial abuse?

So for a lot of the man/woman debates I see a pretty direct correlation between sexual needs for men and financial needs for women. Most relationships men are there for sex and women are there for financial security.

When you understand that people in general want money and people in general want sex, things will get clearer for you. There's no world where women want money only and men want sex only. Healthy relationships are not transactional.

But classifying sex as a necessity for men or even a transactional agreement with women is automatically villainized.

As it should be.

I think this is purposefully so that men’s need in the relationship is always toward the bottom.

Think deeper.

This is why bed rooms die because women strangle the transactional agreement.

The transactional agreement that the man assumed he had without ever voicing it? Seems to be what you are saying. But the man in this scenario was wrong.

So why don’t men get to consent to sharing the fruits of their labor.

They do.

How is this abuse?

It's not.

Why are men forced into financial relationships they don’t want to be in.

They're not.

OkProfessional9405 · 2024-05-25T00:06:27+00:00

Female arousal is complicated. Women use their sexual attrativeness to secure a mate. The problem with modern day marriage is that the contract is so one sided women lose any risk of loss from divorce. There's no pressure to keep their man and, at least, that component of their arousal is missing. If other components of their arousal are also missing then it's a dead bedroom.

NoDanaOnlyZuuI · 2024-05-25T00:12:38+00:00

“Most relationships men are there for sex and women are there for financial security”

False. Both men and women are there for love, companionship, and sex.

If you’re only getting into a relationship for sex, just hire prostitutes. Relationships are so much bigger than that.

Re: your edit. Most women don’t purposefully withhold sex. They lose sexual interest in a partner who is not fulfilling any of their other emotional needs or sharing in domestic labour. When those women find a new partner, they’re choosier and look for a partner who is going to fulfill those emotional needs, so they don’t lose their sex drive. It’s hard to feel sexual desire for someone whose underwear and socks you have to pick up off the floor.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2024-05-25T00:34:35+00:00

they consent to this by marrying and creating a single legal economic household?

"financial abuse" has of course always referred to the male practice of not ALLOWING a woman to work and controllign her with money, leave it to a PPD man to make it about the voluntary association of marriage tho

Demasii · 2024-05-24T23:29:24+00:00

You definition of financial abuse is a strawman.

Financial abuse is to purposely limit someone's financial independence to gain control over them.

A common example is a married couple who jointly decides that the woman to be a SAHM. She gets pregnant and gives birth. Husband starts limiting her access to his money and prevent her from buying formula unless she starts acting in whatever way he wants her to act.

Edit: Here is a good example of someone who almost got abused.

cast-away-ramadi06 · 2024-05-24T22:54:49+00:00

People need to have discussions about allocations before they get married🤦‍♂️ If you agree to something reasonable beforehand, I don't see how you're going to be in a position to financially abuse someone or be financially abused yourself.

Mentathiel · 2024-05-24T23:57:26+00:00

What I’m talking about is a man and woman are married, years down the road they both decide it’s over. She doesn’t work and he does. He is required to pay for her still or it is financial abuse. He is required to pay for everything until they are divorced then probably pay alimony.

He is paying because she has spent years that could have been spent increasing her knowledge, experience, network, etc. to earn her a higher salary taking care of him and their kids instead. They split what they earned together (her domestic labor that enabled him to work peacefully + his money earned their assets) and he pays the difference to what she would have earned if it weren't for her devoting herself to domestic life.

It is not a great arrangement, I agree, it puts way too much strain on the relationship and makes the woman too dependent. But if you want a tradwife, it would be entirely unfair to her to leave her financially stranded if you guys end up divorcing.

Or you are married and they refuses to work and says I want to go out every Friday. If you say “well get a job because you’re not doing it with my money” this is considered financial abuse.

If you otherwise want and have agreed to support a full time housewife, but this is the one thing you won't give her money for because you actually want to control when she goes out and you don't want her to go without you.. That is financial abuse.

But if it's more of a budget issue or whatever, that can be resolved by talking and coming to an agreement about your budget.

If you don't want a tradwife, don't have one lol.

Basically a spouse or partner is entitled to half or more of the income with zero return of labor or effort.

The idea is, she is doing domestic labor, mainly related to the kids. If this is not the case, that is clearly not fair. The solution isn't raping your wife (cuz that's what you imply with this whole transactionality argument), the solution is not being a pushover and not entering arrangements that are not fair to you. If you don't want to give free money to people, stop giving free money to people. Most women don't even expect to be tradwives, so that's already a non-starter.

AutoModerator · 2024-05-24T22:14:24+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

boom-wham-slam · 2024-05-25T00:49:11+00:00

It's imaginary. Just go get a job? If you didn't meet a man, you would have a job. Nobody is entitled to live without getting a job. The fact you haven't worked is irrelevant. Last time I checked even dunces with no job experience are getting jobs in fast food and gas stations and such. So again. He doesn't want to so what you want with his money? Go get a job.

David-Metty · 2024-05-25T01:01:47+00:00

Financial abuse doesn’t really exist. It can mean whatever she wants it to mean.

Updawg145 · 2024-05-24T23:05:00+00:00

As a man you'd have to be stupid to enter into a stay at home wife/mom relationship these days. The dominant culture right now is strongly leaning towards vilifying men in these relationships and trying to hold them or all of society responsible for the lack of "career development" the woman had when she "sacrificed" her opportunities to do the oh so horrible task of staying at her own home raising her own kids. The horror.

The thing that people in these arguments never seem to consider is the fact that a single man earning a high income could have a piss easy life. This is basically me: I can do basically whatever the fuck I want whenever the fuck I want (within reason, I'm not rich-rich, just upper middle class rich). But if I got married to a woman who intended to be a STAHM, I'd probably need to buy a house, another vehicle, then all the childcare related expenses, etc. I'd be sacrificing easily 50-60% or more of my income to take care of this relationship. And the woman's "role" in this would be to manage the household, which should be a fair trade.

Unfortunately women don't see this as a fair trade. They see this as the man just lording over the woman and treating her as a slave. Fuck that. If the woman doesn't make at least 100K a year I don't even bother.

LoopyPro · 2024-05-24T23:30:39+00:00

The correct term when one doesn't hold up their end of the bargain in a relationship would be 'neglect', not 'abuse'.

All relationships should be voluntary and nobody should be forced to do anything against their will. Nobody is entitled to anything, whether it's sex or the fruits of someone's labor. These things could be called 'needs', but only with respect to the relationship, not the people in it. If certain aspects are important to maintain the relationship, they should be discussed. If a relationship is no longer satisfying, people are free to go. If people choose to ditch the voluntary basis and decide get married, it means that his money is hers and that she has have sex with him whenever he wants it. It's a double-edged sword.

Expecting the other person do something for them without being willing to return the favor in any way (aka entitlement) is hypocritical. If a woman rejects the idea that nobody is entitled to anything and demands her ex to pay alimony, it is fair for the ex to demand sex (or any other favor) in return. That way, both people have to give something against their will.

IronDBZ · 2024-05-24T22:20:39+00:00

In any situation where a man is expending resources on a woman, and they're not paying alimony or child support, it's voluntary.

You can have an issue with the above two situations, if you want, but outside of that you don't have to give anything.

The best relationships a man can have with a woman are ones where resources are just means toward the end of continuing the relationship. You spend money to stay and do things together not to keep one party inside the relationship.

If a man can't get that, I suggest they make some changes in life or the people they talk to.

While everything is finite, money is always better spent elsewhere than on a relationship, especially when that's what love is for. There's no sense in being with a woman that has no affection for you.

BeautifulTree5607 · 2024-05-24T22:41:42+00:00

Agree with you. I think it’s because our legal system was set up to protect men against other men, and women / children against men. It was not designed to protect men from women.

Title	Let’s talk about financial abuse.
Author	tomsnow164
Upvotes	7
Comments	159
Date	May 24, 2024 10:14 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1czwv7a/lets_talk_about_financial_abuse/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/lets-talk-about-financial-abuse.1519430 https://theredarchive.com/post/1519430

Comments