Feminist here. I was wondering this: why is it ok to speak out against white racism, and heterophobia, but speaking out against misandry, you’re considered an anti-feminist/misogynist.

christina_murray_ · 2024-07-27T00:37:26+00:00

Great to see a feminist who sees the issue with misandry :) Many of you seem to get isolated from mainstream feminist circles for merely saying misandry is real and it’s upsetting. I’m a woman who doesn’t call herself a feminist but I welcome you to this sub because getting varied perspectives without becoming an echo chamber is important- as long as everybody remains civil :)

henrysmyagent · 2024-07-27T02:18:50+00:00

Because no one is allowed to criticize women for anything.

To make the case that a woman has said or done something that exposes their misandry, you have to give evidence of the misandry.

But expressing the evidence of a woman's misandry sounds like you are criticizing a woman's words/actions.

If a woman points out another woman's misandry, then she is buried in accusations of being a "pick-me girl."

If a man points out a woman's misandry, then he is automatically assumed to be a misogynistic incel and attacked for it.

Btw, I have been banned off of 3 different subreddits just for pointing out the fact that no one is allowed to criticize a woman for anything.

Which is supposed to be a punishment, but it really just confirms my point.

publicdefecation · 2024-07-27T02:02:12+00:00

A lot of feminists believe that the relative power one holds affects the morality of the action. So for example, most people would believe that randomly punching someone is bad but feminists would believe that "punching down" is particularly bad and "punching up" is relatively less bad.

So in a nutshell men are allowed to be hated and treated harshly because collectively we have more power. It's a part of the reason why it's very important that all feminist narratives place women as the victims of history and men as the perpetrators. By emphasizing their powerlessness they give themselves the moral leverage necessary to browbeat, belittle and mistreat others. In their world, being a victim gives them the legitimacy to act as a moral authority over everyone's lives.

Karmaze · 2024-07-27T01:50:36+00:00

So, I'm going to give you a gentle disagreement here, in that I think those other things are not accepted either. It's possible that criticism of misandry might be treated worse just because feminism has more influence than other forms of identity politics, but still, I wouldn't call any of that acceptable.

The way I'd frame your question is why do people hold on so hard to strict Oppressor/Oppressed dichotomies?

My own personal belief, is that limiting things to a relatively small number of identity-based Oppressor/Oppressed dichotomies actually serves to freeze out other facets of power, privilege and bias. Sure, people talk about a bit about economic class, but it's not really included....honestly it's more about papering over economic class issues with government programs (which in my mind isn't that dissimilar to Neoliberalism....I call this Neoprogressivism), but there's other facets that are entirely left out, largely based around various forms of social power.

My argument is that these models tend to pop up in places where social power becomes important. Academia is the big one. Journalism is another. But even there, in smaller communities where these ideas hit, generally I think they are about protecting social power and creating different rules for the in-group than the out-group.

Even trying to incorporate these facets of power into feminism itself, will generally get you drummed out pretty quick.

So yeah. That's my argument. People hold on to the O/O dichotomy like their life depends on it because critiquing social power (which is largely what breaks down the O/O dichotomy, after economic class, although these things are linked) is something seen as a very real threat to their particular way of life.

jessi387 · 2024-07-27T02:30:51+00:00

If you are genuinely someone who has egalitarian views, then I promise you’ll eventually drop the label of feminist. Do your research into that movement and people like sally miller gearhart. Trust me, you won’t want to call yourself that. Unless of course you support their hateful views.

VexerVexed · 2024-07-27T01:19:18+00:00

Black men are attacked relentlessly; we're only props for discussion surrounding police brutality and it's only ignorance that allows people to come in here and proclaim us as apart of the progressive protected fold.

Just go onto twitter or listen to mainstream media broadcasts from now until the election. To see black men being called "the weakest link," "white male adjacent," our voting trends tarnished by lies that prop up black women as the saviors to all despite black men being only second to them in voting dem, racist criminology still used to pathologize us, the story of a literal former slave from the 1800s historically misrepresented as a means of pushing "niggas ain't shit" thinking etc.

The world of anti-black male misandry is near nazism in toxicity at times and we aren't held as equals unless we're FD Signifier like or worse.

Black men still fall behing white men in many regards of receiving social support and have also had efforts to target that like My Brothers Keeper bombed out of existence by feminists; get a grip.

I can't really stand black male academia twitter due to the rhetoric not being inclusive enough of white men and therefore destined for destitution as all of these closed off pools of fanciful leftist thought are even if much of the actual research (not community politics) is well founded/valuable, which keeps me posting here more and yet I still get so frustrated by the conversation here at times.

Male advoacay is not white male advocacy or black male advocacy it's male advocacy and you can talk about the woes of white men without being so assumptive in your understanding of others.

TaskComfortable6953 · 2024-07-27T01:54:49+00:00

I read your post title and I immediately thought “you tell me!?!?!? B/c I have not a clue”. LOL

This is a horrible double standard that many boys and men unfortunately subjected to.

Good job calling it out.

Edit to add: What’s even worse is, (as you’ve indicated) nothing is being don’t about the widespread and blatant misandry.

Nobleone11 · 2024-07-27T01:29:14+00:00

So, I've read and heard plenty of people speak out against white racism and take it pretty seriously, which I find surprising because racism is taken extremely seriously

No, racism against whites isn't taken seriously. And that's only when people pushing it are at their most polite. Otherwise, you're ganged upon, persecuted, and cancelled should you defend white people.

By the way, since you're a feminist, you should be aware that your group's Misandric undercurrent dates as far back as The Declaration of Sentiments. It's been an issue for over a century and a half, with a lot of anti-male actions a product of it.

ProtectIntegrity · 2024-07-27T00:20:25+00:00

In my experience, the other things you mentioned aren't considered wrong either.

BloomingBrains · 2024-07-27T06:18:12+00:00

I don't agree that speaking out against white racism and heterophobia is seen as okay either, at least not by far left radical sjw types. But that is really who we're talking about to begin with when we complain about people on the internet because most people IRL are more reasonable.

But to answer your actual question, its because they're just genuinely ignorant and brainwashed, or they're the people doing the brainwashing and they know this is an effective tactic.

I also think there are people who deep down know that misandry is real, but they're too invested in the ideology already and they don't want to admit to themselves that they've been duped and they're a terrible person by denying misandry up until that point, so they double down on it. They're saying it to convince themselves as much as anyone else. Like how homophobes spout horrible things about gays burning in hell and all that while usually harboring gay fantasies themselves. Its common trait to zealots of any kind of ideology.

SvitlanaLeo · 2024-07-27T03:55:48+00:00

I often see an analogy between misandry and black racism and heterophobia. Although in my opinion, this analogy is clearly incorrect. At least because the characteristic of a male has similarities with the characteristic of a Black person, for example, during the Vietnam War, Black skin color and male gender clearly increased the likelihood that one would be used as cannon fodder. Also, both characteristics increase the likelihood that one will be perceived as a potential sex offender and not perceived as a victim of a sex crime.

Vegetable_Camera50 · 2024-07-27T01:58:56+00:00

I made a post similar to this topic.

https://www.reddit.com/r/abanpreach/s/nq0pHRThvm

In conclusion it seems like women have more social power as a class compared to other oppressed or marginalized groups.

CoachDT · 2024-07-27T01:52:11+00:00

We need to separate the internet from real life here. I'm black, and as a general rule in real life people seem much more respectful in all directions. I've seen white guys call out my peers and acquaintances for being anti-white and most of us just go "damn fair enough".

The same happens with misandry to some extent. Most people get carried away and will back down when called on it because they realize they went too far. At least if you approach it in the right way.

Johntoreno · 2024-07-27T02:13:18+00:00

but speaking out against misandry makes one an anti-feminist/misogynist?

You're the feminist, you tell me! Why do Feminists call anyone that disagrees with patriarchy theory, a misogynist?

women are put on a huge pedastal

By whom?

Main-Tiger8593 · 2024-07-27T05:31:55+00:00

feminism vs mens rights activism

it seems like many feminists think that talking about misandry or female predators and criminals devalues/minimalizes issues women face or just silences women...

Almahue · 2024-07-27T16:06:14+00:00

I will let you in a little secret: welcome to the club!

Most of us (as in, the vast majority) used to or currently identify as feminist. Granted, most drop the label eventually (too much bagage), but we know the perspective.

I would have to say, while at large none of these issues are treated seriously, you are right in that they are often more arguable. And I have an hypothesis about it.

Tl;DR: personal misogyny is treated as systemic misogyny. Speaking about any form of misandry is seen as personal misogyny, therefore making it so speaking about misandry (both personal and systemic) gets treated as systemic misogyny.

Misogyny is in part systemic, but examples of it being personal are treated as if they were systemic: we have, since atleast the bronce age, as a society considered the sexual assault of women as evil. We used it in propaganda and have had laws against it, often under the tortured to death sentence.

But, because as a society we aren't perfect in treating victims (I would argue we are straight up awful, but that doesn't change my point) we act like even the most personal case posible of misogyny (“women were bad to me in the past, so now I don't like them") contributes to the systemic opression of women and therefore to “rape culture" (the quotation marks will make sense in a minute).

In the other hand.

Any and all forms of women violence against men, including sexual assault as either: nonexistant, unimportant, ignorable, forgivable or straight up encouragable since very much the dawn of time.

Even in spaces dedicated to equality, like feminist spaces, it's not taken all too seriously, often under the excuse that almost doesn't happen (despite something that like, 1 in 9 men have to deal with).

Heck, in those spaces, there's still the ocasional edgy character responding “good" to that data.

Somehow, this isn't a rape culture.

And if a man dares to speak against this blatant rape culture he's clearly “misogynystic", an “incel" and very much contributing to the real “rape culture".

So, speaking about misandry is treated as systemic misogyny, making bringing up personal lived experiences and systemic data collected about it very difficult.

DrankTooMuchMead · 2024-07-27T04:03:52+00:00

When you think about it, women are the backbone of society. They talk more, have larger social circles, and so their ideas spread farther and wider.

Meanwhile, men are talking less and less, and instead turning to technology to vent.

This is why the overall voice of society, what is acceptable to say and unacceptable to say, holds a strong female bias.

hotpotato128 · 2024-07-27T14:09:10+00:00

I'm anti-feminism and not against equality. It doesn't make me a misogynist.

MozartFan5 · 2024-07-28T05:01:42+00:00

Because we live in a White female centric society to where "anti-White" racism is taken seriously but not misandry and sexism against men and boys.

Skirt_Douglas · 2024-07-28T16:50:19+00:00

Uhhhh, are you not aware that it’s your lot who is in control of the western liberal cultural narrative? If you ask us, you’re preaching the choir, we’re just going to say “IKR?”

Why is white racism and heterophobia considered taboo sometimes, but speaking out against misandry makes one an anti-feminist/misogynist?

Because feminist retaliation made it a taboo. It almost feels dishonest that you would even ask that as if it were such a mystery where these attitudes ares coming from.

NotJeromeStuart · 2024-07-27T02:02:18+00:00

Men are seen as the only predators. It's okay to name and shame predators.

WanderingSchola · 2024-07-27T03:00:36+00:00

I think it's probably a reflection of the ideas of men as stoic/resilient/rational etc. To publicly talk about misandry outs you as transgressing against masculinity, because the "correct" masculine responses are to kill the threat, or not dignify it with a response, or to ignore it and get right back into exhausting yourself to make fat stacks and provide.

I highly doubt your Gary Vees, Andrew Tates and Jordan Petersons would consider the people here "manly" men. To be "triggered" by misandry outs you as not matching up to what men are "supposed" to be.

By contrast, whites and cis/het folk are performing those identities when they are insisting on the purity and sanctity of those identities. Performing manhood "correctly" is kind of unique in that a man needs to shrug off adversity.

But this is just a gut instinct. There are probably examples that would break this idea.

Phuxsea · 2024-07-27T02:28:05+00:00

You have an absolutely true and valid point. It's bizarre how simply calling out misandry is seen as anti-feminist. Besides, most feminists love at least one man in their life. Why shouldn't they speak out for them?

You are why I'm not anti-feminist because I don't want to be against you.

AryanFire · 2024-07-27T03:00:08+00:00

This analogy is, unfortunately, also a false equivalence. Racism is a far more systemic and ancient form of oppression with significantly worse consequences than gender. Race is directly and completely connected to systems of class privilege. Gender is not. You can much easily have a wealthy white woman and a poor black man from the Global South - suddenly gender "power dynamics" completely fall apart there because other, deeper and more collectively lethal systems of power take hold. It is very easy for misandry to exist within such systems, which feminism (as a white woman's concept stolen from indigenous beliefs) has tried to whitewash and vehemently deny. When white women openly owned slaves who were men of colour, in North America. They had to wipe out evidence of all the ancestral, colonial misandry they've enabled and benefited from - so feminist theory completely warped it out and now misinforms people about the real dangers of misandry.

Racism is completely different. "White racism" is far, far less damaging than systemic class/race-based misandry has historically been, and continues to be (look at Kamala Harris, a feminist icon and presidential candidate of the most powerful military in the world, effortlessly funding and endorsing the ongoing bombing of thousands of Palestinian men and boys - feminism will tell you this is not systemic misandry and that those men somehow still hold more power in a colonial class system this broken)

Maffioze · 2024-07-27T07:41:02+00:00

So I mean no offense and I appreciate that you are here interested in learning.

But I personally take offense at the suggestion that misandry is somehow like "white racism" (more commonly known as reverse racism) and heterophobia.

It suggests that they are similar but they really aren't at all. White racism is not impactfull on the scale of society and neither is heterophobia. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about misandry. How many men have died historically because they were expected to sacrifice themselves on the battlefield? This is misandry. Has heterophobia and White racism ever killed that many people? No it hasn't.

Don't get me wrong, I know why you held this opinion. According to feminism, sexism is analogous to racism, and they believe that men are above women and so that misogyny is systemic and the default you encounter in the world while misandry is not systemic, far more rare, and usually justified. And when you say "I'm egalitarian, not feminist" they respond with "That's like saying all lives matter". The thing is that those comparisons make no sense at all because they don't align with actual reality. Misandry is highly systemic and pretty much everywhere. Many users are here instead of in feminist subs exactly because they have a problem with this kind of thinking.

lemons7472 · 2024-07-27T04:29:07+00:00

I tend to see the opposite where you cannot say anything about white racism, heterophobia, etc or else your hateful (but irl the most I see is misandry or “white people bad!”. Your not really allows to disagree with those two).

Im not sure if calling out the former topics seem to be widely viewed as “ok” to talk about, but I think it’s all for the same reason why if you call out misandry, you are seen as misogynist or pick-me.

People see the identity of heterosexuals, biogical males, and white men, even black men, all as sort of a catalyst for all the worlds problems and the existance of bigotry, therefore anyone who call out verbal bigotry against heterosexuals or biogical males, or white people, then people assume that those critics are trying to take away from minorities or the such, or silence others, which leads people thinking that anyone who calls out such must be a racist who hates women.

DrewYetti · 2024-07-27T12:19:55+00:00

Because “men are always wrong, women are always right.”

DutchOnionKnight · 2024-07-27T06:00:29+00:00

Hate/racism/phobia/sexism has no gender, religion or race. And just because one is a victim, doesn't mean they can't be perpatrator.

There are misogynist whom are male but also female. There are misandrist whom are female but also male.

What's important is to undertsand language people use, and how they move.

Garfish16 · 2024-07-27T07:07:25+00:00

In Western society, I think there are a lot more women who will retreat into their identity and lash out when criticized then there are black people or queer people. Everybody does it. If you don't believe me go criticize a Groyper for being racist and see how they react. The difference is that women are a more numerous and socially dominant group than black people or queer people.

TheTheDayTheThe · 2024-07-27T14:36:32+00:00

As a non white, I'd say it's actually more acceptable to bring up misandry in the case of non white men such as myself. When it comes to white men, it's kind of like you're protecting the status quo and thus a bigot of some form.

Alarming_Guide_5924 · 2024-07-27T20:49:29+00:00

feminism is misandrist. anti feminism is not misogyny. mens rights supports womens rights. liberalism is universal. ive never seen ppl seriously gone after for "heterophobia". heteros are not discriminated against legally. men are everywhere. women are in 3rd world countries.

Cearball · 2024-07-27T21:17:47+00:00

Can you speak out against white racism?

I feel it's treated similarly TBH

Absentrando · 2024-07-28T01:22:05+00:00

Because human beings are extremely tribalistic, and we have the tendency to think of everything we see as remotely important in false dichotomies like us vs them, or with us or against us. No matter how many times this tendency results in mass atrocities, we want to believe that we’ve overcome and think we are more rational even though technology in the modern age has only served to amplify this tendency. Anyways, to answer your question more directly, it’s because people think that speaking about or even acknowledging the existence of misandry is damaging to feminism and that doing so puts you against women.

gulag_disco · 2024-07-28T02:56:51+00:00

Oh come on, you know. People who claim to be good aren’t actually good. People use victimhood to justify evil, more often than evil is committed. The world got less barbaric and more litigious, it’s now a battle of appearances

Witty-Individual-229 · 2025-07-01T06:28:19+00:00

Misandry is usually reactive abuse against patriarchy

StatusAd7349 · 2024-07-27T01:47:34+00:00

Heterophobia doesn’t exist. LGBT are a distinct minority with virtually no political or social power, so they’re incapable of disenfranchising heterosexuals who comprise 90% of the world’s population.

Title	Feminist here. I was wondering this: why is it ok to speak out against white racism, and heterophobia, but speaking out against misandry, you’re considered an anti-feminist/misogynist.
Author	ZealousidealArm160
Upvotes	134
Comments	112
Date	July 26, 2024 11:15 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1ed1w0f/feminist_here_i_was_wondering_this_why_is_it_ok/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/feminist-here-i-was-wondering-this-why-is-it-ok-to.1525427 https://theredarchive.com/post/1525427

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