My thoughts about 'the wall'

stappen_in_staphorst · 2019-03-06T05:29:53+00:00

Youthful isn't the same as pretty you know.

I look the same as I did 15 years back when I was 18 and my face is about as ugly as then but yeah people assume me to be a late teenager.

Plenty of ugly teenagers and 20 year olds around and all.

GradualDecomp · 2019-03-06T07:44:50+00:00

It's just too nuanced and variable to pin down. Given obesity rates, the average 22 year old guy or gal is not attractive in the traditional sense. A fit, stylish, attractive 37 year old will have an easier time finding an attractive partner than an overweight and/or poorly styled 21 year old. Women want to date men their age or older, so no 37 year old is crying because some ripped college dude isnt in to her.

My options are better now than they were in my early twenties, because I'm better now. I got in great shape, started giving a shit about how I dress, completed higher education, got some money, became more confident and engaging, etc. The dudes I date now are waaaay more attractive relative to who I was dating in my "prime".

My boyfriend now would have been an unrealistic fantasy for me 15 years ago. We met when I was 33.

esiemualB · 2019-03-06T15:53:49+00:00

My theory is that RP men see the effects that pregnancy and childrearing has on women and mistake this as the natural signs of aging in women. When I look at women in their 30s or 40s and their "unattractive" features, it's almost always related to having had kids (e.g. floppy belly with stretch marks, loose skin with stretch marks, saggy boobs, being tired and putting less effort into looks because you don't have the time to do your make-up with two screaming toddlers next to you, short hair because your baby kept pulling on it etc.). A woman who has not had kids or who at least has a partner who is very involved in raising them (so that she can actually go to the gym and take care of her body in general) won't look any worse than a guy at the same age.

cxj · 2019-03-06T07:31:18+00:00

Men don’t hit a wall because most of them weren’t attractive to begin with and weren’t capitalizing on youth and beauty without realizing it the way women were.

Women are way way more attractive to men than men are to women during youth, and this drops off heavily with age

dicklord_airplane · 2019-03-06T13:41:40+00:00

Its true that most guys who talk about the wall are feeding a revenge fantasy against women. Its a terrible way to live a life, obsessing over vague revenge.

kandyapplez · 2019-03-06T09:03:33+00:00

here we go pretending like the majority of post wall women aren't married mothers who left the dating game decades ago

flyinghorse1 · 2019-03-06T04:54:52+00:00

I've always felt that maybe 50% of 22 year old women are attractive (roughly) and yet about only 5% of women at 42 are attractive. I think the percentage of men attractive at 22 is much lower at 22 years old, yet it stays roughly the same at 42 (maybe a slight decrease).

This is all hard to measure objectively though and all we can do Is add our own experiences

lastoftheavars · 2019-03-08T07:06:28+00:00

the wall is cope

women at 30, 40 and even 50 are more desirable than most men at any age and can get more sex in 1 week than u can in 1 year

reluctantly_red · 2019-03-06T04:51:57+00:00

Age separates the wheat from the chaff. Almost all 20 year old women are attractive. Most 30 year old women are attractive. Many 40 year old women are still attractive but many no longer are. Very few 50 year old women remain attractive.

TRP is correct in that it gets easier for men to get dates as they age. The problem is that more and more of the willing and available women are unattractive. The age bonus promoted by TRP is, therefore, for the most part illusory. Older guys actually have to continually up their game if they want attractive partners.

Since most twenty year old women are attractive a 20 year old guy can easily find an attractive 20 year old woman. Since most 50 year old women are not attractive a 50 year old guy has to be really on top of things to either (1) land one of the few remaining attractive women his own age, or (2) out compete younger guys for younger women. Needless to say most older guys are not going to be able to do either.

JorgitoEstrella · 2019-03-06T06:54:22+00:00

Aging seems worse on women imo, in men i would claim the peak of masculinity is 30 and it decline at 40-50, in women the peak is 20 and decline in 30-40.

Friendly_Tone · 2019-03-06T18:29:16+00:00

retarded men who take delight in fantasizing about the decline in beauty of women they never could get.

equanimous_samsara · 2019-03-06T05:17:48+00:00

Women should be aware what it will mean for them and to be honest with themselves about it. That way it should never be a problem, and other people saying things won't bother them so much.

EGOtyst · 2019-03-06T15:26:34+00:00

The wall isn't that. The wall is just the tipping point where a woman's looks don't outweigh their personality.

chaddad9000 · 2019-03-06T06:14:48+00:00

Red pills talk about Hypergamy all the time, but they don't really understand it. Hypergamy means *there is no wall*. Women consider the best of their options to be "the best".

I saw it in my social circles where women "grew old" a few years ahead of us men. For five minutes they complained 'their' men were dating younger women. Then figured it out and continued to go to the gym and adjusted their age-range upwards. Beta Bux, hell no, divorced dad with the muscles and the motorcycle hell yeah. Attractive women know they're attractive and they might compromise, but they don't settle.

ascended-cel · 2019-03-06T06:02:54+00:00

I think the Wall is somewhat of a male revenge fantasy but you can't deny that aging is worse for women than it is men.

We can see this for Hollywood- where both the men and women are exceptionally attractive people. Older men remain sex symbols and go on to have successful careers. Older women get swapped out for younger models, or start playing non-sexy roles.

boomcheese44 · 2019-03-06T06:00:03+00:00

The wall for women starts in the 40s for most, right when fertility drops off a cliff.

Kittennoodle · 2019-03-06T07:12:32+00:00

Wrinkles are laugh lines. My husband has agreed to name them as they come. My first one of note to him was kidney bean.

Moldy_Gecko · 2019-03-06T07:17:29+00:00

Actually, from almost every chick I've been with or talked to and just looking at myself in the mirror, I'm 1000x more attractive than I was 10 yrs ago at 25. That's why we reference the wall, men get both, women don't. Only thing I disagree with is the wall starting at 30ish. Being 35, I find many women above 30 still incredibly attractive. It's just one of those things, I think, that as you get older, older people don't appear so old.

-TheGreasyPole- · 2019-03-06T09:20:13+00:00

I had my best attempt at explaining what’s going on here

https://en.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/85xbbh/how_big_are_male_and_female_dating_pools_at_any/

That’s something approaching the parts of the answer seperate from attractiveness. This and the changes to how men find women attractive pre/post 40 explain “the wall”.

It’s lots of things at once, caused by the different ways males and females are attracted and the big swings in “dating market power” this causes. It’s all these things wrapped together that gets experienced by women as “the wall”.

blackedoutfast · 2019-03-06T19:46:17+00:00

it's called the wall because it's a sudden and dramatic change that happens over a relatively short period of time. it's not a steady decline from 20 to 40.

also no one says there aren't any decent looking 40 year olds. but pretty much every 40 year old was significantly hotter when she was 20. the only exception are things like women who were fat at 20 but then lost weight and got fit, or women who didn't know how to girl at 20 but then learned how to put on makeup correctly and all that stuff. but those are kinda external separate things from the wall. all else being equal, a women looks better at 20 than at 40

ThisIsJustATr1bute · 2019-03-06T20:40:26+00:00

I associate with men who believe I have aged like wine. Men who lack the sophisticated taste to perceive that are boorish and don’t interest me. A man who gets off on calling women aging like milk...he is likely not romantically successful, and his statements say much more about his own lack of manners and class, than he could ever say about a woman.

[deleted] · 2019-03-07T22:42:53+00:00

Most MGTOWs are so caught up in revenge fantasies. Its pathetic, even pitiable. I say this as someone who would immediately go full MGTOW if i didnt have kids to think about. The philosophy and practice of monk moding and MGTOWing is good, but the "community" around it is utter fucking garbage.

If the opportunity arose, I would forget online discussions entirely and go back to Gnostic ascetics, greek philosophers and other literary sources for insights on how to MGTOW properly.

But yes: The Wall is a giant revenge fantasy/cope. Women of all ages are doing fine. There may be a slight decline in the status/desirability of women as they get older, but they still far outstrip men at any age. If 40something women are bitching its because their privilege lvl went from 100 to 80, while men are still stuck at 0.

wobbleelbbow · 2019-03-06T07:03:23+00:00

Anything can be reduced to humans being humans. But stereotypes and generalizations exist for a reason.

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AndemanMan · 2019-03-06T10:54:33+00:00

Asian women don't count. A better example is Pierce Brosnan and his wife Keely Smith: https://imgur.com/MqEdKTG

PlantainNationalism · 2019-03-06T12:03:07+00:00

The wall applies to the dating market. Traditionally a 30 year old broad already got 4 kids and a husband and isn't on tinder whoring herself out. But in clown world, it be like that, and theres a nifty slidy bar on the app to keep dusty pussy away from you.

mortsdans · 2019-03-06T12:34:30+00:00

Humans are attracted to members of the opposite sex that they can make babies with. Old men can make babies and old woman can't. For breeding purposes age makes a big difference with woman but not much at all for men. It's logical to assume that men will pursue young woman, and woman won't care much about age. In practice, most men will probably just take what they can get, but the ones in a position to choose will date younger woman.

Eastuss · 2019-03-06T12:49:33+00:00

Your thoughts are bad because 1) you misunderstand the wall 2) you misunderstand SMV and 3) you misunderstand the affect of age on masculinity and femininity.

Women don't get better looking after 20, men don't get better looking after 30. Unless major improvement in weight if there was first an issue... This has never been about comparing good looking 40 years olds to bad looking 20 years old, but about comparing one person when they're 20 and when they're 40. You have plenty of before/after pictures of hollywood stars, they simply never get better looking with age, no matter how well they're conserved.

Men's SMV is not solely their looks, and the rest of their SMV may still be growing after 30. Women's SMV is solely their looks. The wall as a concept makes sense for women, and you cannot say the same for most men.

dipshiitmagnet · 2019-03-06T13:06:18+00:00

Automatic upvote because, Keanu Reeves, but actually I don’t hate what you’re saying here.

Offhisgame · 2019-03-06T13:47:45+00:00

Gimme some giada. That lady is smoking for her age

GuyWithTheStalker · 2019-03-06T14:04:39+00:00

Who gives a fuck?

__Some_person__ · 2019-03-06T08:06:02+00:00

deleted ^{^{^What}} ^{^{^is}} ^{^{^this?}}

Realityinmyhand · 2019-03-06T10:17:58+00:00

The wall isn't about beauty, it's about reproduction.

Beauty is merely a tool to achieve one of our two biological imperatives : to survive and to reproduce.

There is an age, where a woman isn't able to reproduce (at least without medical assistance, which we are not evolutionary adapted to) and it does have a profund impact on our behavior. Men, as unfair as it is (biology is unfair) do not have the same age limit.

The wall isn't about "dating", "beauty" or anything else like that.

BlindingTwilight · 2019-03-06T10:03:09+00:00

This is getting old. Men age like wine and women age like milk. There are no older women with young men on their arms yet there are countless older men with young women on their arms. The wall is a thing, it is real and it only affects women. Women cannot give birth after their 40s so nature ensures that they are not attractive to younger men. End of discussion

MGTOWtoday · 2019-03-06T11:17:29+00:00

The wall and menopause go hand in hand. Nature didn’t go through all the trouble of making women beautiful if there wasn’t a pay off. That pay off is making babies. When women get too old to make babies there’s no longer a biological reason for her to be beautiful. Ergo, the wall. Men don’t experience an equivalent to this because our biological job is to provide resources. If anything, our wall is erectile dysfunction. The lesson is simple, ladies. If you want to maximize your resources from men then you settle down early with a good provider when your fertility is at its peak. It worked for every generation of women before you, and it can work for you too.

HonestyOverCivility · 2019-03-06T08:58:24+00:00

A lot of what is being discussed is simply trying understand what is really evolutionary biology. It should come as no surprise that a woman’s attractiveness and fertility peaks in the 18-25 range and than begin to exponentially tank afterward...the two go hand in hand because attraction is just a proxy for determining whether an individual would be a good partner for reproductive. Evolutionarily speaking, the men who went after 20 year olds had plenty of healthy off spring while the men who went after 40 year olds would not have. Accordingly, men evolved to be attracted to and seek younger women.

Men on the other hand are fully capable of siring children into old age and are often better providers/have more power as well. Accordingly, men in their 40’s/50’s still have plenty of evolutionary utility in them, which is why women have traditionally found even middle aged men to be desirable

How well you age is really just a factor of how useful you are from an evolutionary standpoint when it comes to reproduction

Title	My thoughts about 'the wall'
Author	BeyondAnyPill
Upvotes	33
Comments	217
Date	March 6, 2019 4:47 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/axuvcl/my_thoughts_about_the_wall/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/my-thoughts-about-the-wall.256892 https://theredarchive.com/post/256892

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