CMV: The female dating advantage doesn't go away after 30, and making 6 figures isn't worth much on it's own to women anymore

toronto87 · 2018-05-25T05:04:36+00:00

Does everyone on PPD live in San Francisco or something?

In Canada a single ~27-30 yo individual with a 100k/year salary is 95th-97th percentile (http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/dv-vd/inc-rev/index-eng.cfm) Men (and women) with that type of income who are unattached aren't exactly falling out of trees in their late 20's.

TheGreasyPole · 2018-05-25T08:20:59+00:00

Ill try and CYV...

The female dating advantage held in their 20s does go away in two ways...

1) the number of eligible men goes down, and the number of eligible women (for men) goes up. This is a function of women wanting to date men roughly -4/+8 from their own age and the males dating in the reverse. I did this as a full OP not so long ago available here

Basically I took the ranges men/women said they’d date from a scientific study, this varied by age but was roughly as above. I then took the percentage of men/women married at each age or in the LTR that would lead to marriage (an average of 5yts before marriage date) out of the pool and then finally the Male/female Population at each of those ages. I then calculated how many men/women were in the pool for any age in the US (men of an age women would fancy them, who also fancied women of that age, who wern’t already committed).

This resulted in the following graph of Male And Female dating pool size by age...

Male/Female relative pool size by age

... as you can see, women have much larger pools 18-26 or so, the pool sizes then roughly equalise until about 32, then males open up a big advantage in pool size that never goes away.

So quantity wise women definitely do lose their early advantage in amount of eligible men/women eligible do her men they fancy.

2) I’d also go further than this and also say women suffer a very big difference, and drop off, in Male quality at the same point. Again, due to the fact they date older and men date younger this means the men available/desirable to (say) a 35 yo women are roughly 32-43. The women available to a 35 man are roughly 28-37.

The woman’s pool is as a consequence of lower quality than the mans and much lower quality than her early 20s dating pool as it includes .... far more divorcees who’ve failed to satisfy a first wife, far more men with existing commitments dragging on his resources (previous kids), and far more men who have been “left on the shelf” by other women for roughly 20 years and have not been “snagged” indicating much lower quality.

Basically the men available to women at 25 (22-32yo men) are higher quality because they have these issues far less.

So women in their 30s

a) Have a smaller pool of eligible men

b) Those men are of lower quality

c) Those men have a larger pool and much more choices than they did earlier

d) Those women are for the first time competing with much younger women who are interested in the same man

You can also add to this...

e) Those women are getting close to losing their fertility and so have strict time limits on getting a man, causing them to try and “rush” relationships and create the impression of “desperation” by doing so, providing they want kids.

On your other point... Money isn’t worth much to women anymore ... I’d also disagree that your conceptualising this the right way. This is true “consciously” but that makes little difference to “instinctive attraction”.

Look, women don’t need the traits that “square jaws, fit/muscles and nice forearms” denote anymore either (protection, ability to hunt). Consciously there is no reason to want these. BUT Instinctively those guys are still more attractive than the obverse because the instinctive attractors are genetic/inherent and not really subject to conscious control. Those men just “seem more attractive” for some reason and women respond to that.

Similarly although women don’t need providership anymore they’re immediately going to rate a doctor (say) as more attractive as a hubby candidate than his burger flipping twin brother. They may consciously say they don’t need the money... but the doctor will just instinctively “seem more attractive” to them than his twin.

Similarly guys with higher educational attainment will “seem more attractive”.

They can consciously agree they don’t need a 6 figure income all they like. When presented with a man who looks, dresses, and acts like a man with a 6 figure income.... and one who looks, dresses and act like he has a minimum wage income... the first guy is going to just seem far more attractive as a husband candidate than the other.

TheNymerianEthics · 2018-05-24T23:50:36+00:00

Well, as a 32-year-old woman who makes good money, it's true that I personally dont have a shortage of online dating prospects, nor does six figures with a bad personality entice me. However money isn't completely irrelevant. If a guy is a complete deadbeat with no job, hes off the table unless hes very, very hot (i.e. top 0.1%) or has some other exceptional, one-in-a-million quality. I'm not interested in supporting a person with no job at all unless they bring something else huge to the table. But otherwise, if you make at least enough to support yourself, it doesn't matter too much to me or anyone I know one way or the other.

mydikishomofobik · 2018-05-25T00:55:42+00:00

Typically, the more money/status women have (or are used to being around) the more they expect. Women in rich countries have high financial expectations cause they have lots of economic opportunities and are used to being around lots of relatively wealthy men.

DareyFathom · 2018-05-25T01:35:02+00:00

Dating becomes easier for stable men as women age because those factors appeal more to women when they mature. It won't fix everything though.

quicklogaccount · 2018-05-25T12:06:54+00:00

"once you hit 30 and have a good career, women will finally start coming after you."

This doesn't mean "30 yo women with good careers will come after you".
It means "you will be able to develop a lifestyle that is so novel, alien and attractive to struggling younger women that it will generate a lot of attraction that you will be able to use to get laid, even if you don't fix your looks. Once you get laid a bit you'll get very confident and it'll help you getting laid further."

DaphneDK42 · 2018-05-25T01:35:07+00:00

The dating advantage is down to basic supply and demand. Women are a product men invest in. All men of all ages (18-85) want to be with hot 20yo girls - men are in oversupply and girls are in demand. The amount of men who want to be with not-so-hot 30yo women are much smaller. There is no longer an oversupply of buyers. It is true that an increasing number of women react to this by opting to stay single. I'm not sure that can be characterised as a dating advantage though.

concacanca · 2018-05-25T00:06:17+00:00

Mods aren't doing their jobs, can you make a small edit to summon automod please?

[deleted] · 2018-05-25T13:35:30+00:00

Depends on where you are. You're isolating two factors (age and financial status) in vacuums without reference to all the other factors that go into it.

Consider:

1) The "30+, you've all hit the Wall and are ugly hags" isn't the argument. What happens is that dating gets a little harder and getting commitment gets somewhat harder. And it gets more difficult as the woman gets older. Yes, she can still date; but we're so often told that dating and getting guys to dump fucks into women is nothing and it's not what women really want.

So if we're just talking about dating and casual sex, then yes, women can do that well into their 40s. But we're so often lectured here at PPD, women want marriage because "security" and "status" and "protection" (I have my doubts about that, but that's what women are SAYING here, anyway). (Why breadwinner women want, demand and expect marriage from men for "protection" and "status" and "Security" baffles me - why do these strong independent women who SUPPORT THEIR HUSBANDS FINANCIALLY need "protection" and "status" and "security" ?)

2) Regional differences. From what I hear it sucks in NYC for women because they outnumber men. And in the Midwest there's more numbers parity; and in many places there are more men than women. So what you say might hold true for women in the Midwest and not so much in NYC.

3) Most men who are earning $100k + have something else going for them. They're interesting guys, they have high status jobs, they are high status, whatever else. So it's not like these guys are all STEM computer nerds. Most men can't get to that level unless they've got something else going on.

theiamsamurai · 2018-05-25T21:14:40+00:00

100k doesn't seem like much to them until they see him drive a nice car or wear nice clothes. As for female dating advantage, I don't think it disappears til like 40-45.

[deleted] · 2018-05-25T23:09:17+00:00

All the women I've personally asked IRL (many single) have said that they have their own jobs and money and would always go for an attractive guy with a mediocre job over someone with average looks and a ~100k income (which, for what its worth, none of them seemed to think was even that much). Now when I upped the stakes to millionaire or billionaire prospective partner, they were way more interested, but very few men ever get to be millionaires or billionaires, obviously. What do you think?

The problem here is "average guy" probably conjures up horrible images in a woman's mind, while "attractive guy with mediocre job" probably makes them think of some hunky personal trainer or fitness dude. It's not looking at real world scenarios.

Additionally, area means everything here. In Silicon Valley, most average guys with high paying jobs are engineers. They are still tall, somewhat fun or goofy, and end up with cute/pretty girlfriends or wives.

In the midwest or like a rural state, an average guy with high income is probably an obese fatso who's bald.

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Reven311 · 2018-05-25T19:10:29+00:00

It's not outdated at all, the latest scientific evidence proves women value a man's income 1000 times more than a man value's a woman's income. So yeah, 100K is a big deal (as long as you don't live in a garbage dump like Los Angeles or New York).

[deleted] · 2018-05-25T05:32:45+00:00

A common idea here is that once men are 30+, women are post-wall, the tables are turned, and men start to get a big advantage in dating.

no, that's not the idea, that's called a strawman.

Drippyskippy · 2018-05-25T02:05:35+00:00

Congratulations, you're basing your opinion on personal anecdotes and using reddit subs as "evidence" which are predominately women as your reasoning as to why you believe this. We have found a fallacy folks. You don't think the women on ask women are biased? Do you think that it makes women feel better by claiming that they "don't need no man" or "women will always have an advantage over men"? They tell themselves what they want to hear to make themselves feel better. As we all know, feelings are not facts.

I'm not saying TRP is any better, but at least TRP comes up with actual logical reasons as to why men do better past 30 (women's aesthetics start to deteriorate, women are more aware of their biological clock, men are able to make more money in their careers as they become more experienced, men are seen as more masculine and mature than men in their 20s).

You don't think that a woman has ever lied to you in order to look good or be socially acceptable? Of course women are going to tell you that money isn't a big deal. Women are sneakier than that. You think most women are going to tell you that they are just as shallow as men are...no women are wonderful of course.

prodigy2throw · 2018-05-25T03:10:05+00:00

Women want a man who they think will give them the best chance of survival through pregnancy. Money, resources, strength, confidence, etc are all factors in this.

Also, nobody ever says the secret to getting bitches is making an arbitrary salary so what are you even trying to say

[deleted] · 2018-05-25T01:00:24+00:00

I'm in my late 30s and this does not seem to be the case at all.

Raagon · 2018-05-25T02:55:11+00:00

I’m 29 and underemployed and mildly unattractive. I’ve been telling myself i’ll probably be alone for a long time. I’m not worrying about it anymore. I’m just gonna be a better human for myself. I wish I could find a companion but i probably wont. Every time I read these posts about women getting to be more discerning, which is probably good for them, it just puts me deeper into this hole of loneliness. Its nobody’s fault but my own and this is probably off topic but i wanted to get this out. I just don’t know why anybody wastes time worrying about this shit anymore once they get older. I’d be content with someone that is willing to spend any amount of time in my general area.

Rant over. Thanks for reading.

InformalCriticism · 2018-05-25T18:08:54+00:00

You just have to fish in the right pond. If you're looking for women who are already living in a standard of living comparable to you, then you're not going to stand out to them without something special.

If you're only trying to leverage your money, just look down the socioeconomic ladder.

couldbemage · 2018-05-26T18:29:40+00:00

Provider status isn't that outdated...

It should be?

But here in this thread, we have women saying they totally don't care about income; but they also won't date a broke guy.

While at the same time there are plenty of guys that will date broke girls.

johvannyce · 2018-05-27T17:02:55+00:00

I'm at 27% in the income centile. Where does that poot me? I'm 22 and because of my disability 9000 is how much I make a year.

jerryskids_ · 2018-05-30T15:47:23+00:00

Why would dating be lopsided for women after 30? You legit make no sense from my perspective. If you have always been very unattractive, then it will still appear this way. But I find women become unattractive much faster every year after 30. Therefore their pull reduces, therefore they have last power in the dating market. If a woman thinks otherwise then it's just amusing.

If a woman is high quality, she will still be attractive after 30.

But a woman whose a cashier at Wal-Mart that was gorgeous in her 20s will not.

connieways · 2018-06-01T02:54:17+00:00

I think the men mean pursuing much younger naive and inexperienced women will be easier as you have more status/wealth than her male peers.

Barely-moral · 2018-05-25T02:22:34+00:00

If a man makes 6 figures and can't find a woman then he needs to pack his bags and go where women appreciate his money. There are plenty of places when he will be the best option. At 6 figures he will be the best option in most countries and towns in the world. If he is willing to move and takes finding a relationship as a priority he can pick the best woman in the market he is selling himself at and do so with ease.

piazzacaradvice · 2018-05-25T00:30:07+00:00

False. I'm 28 now, still a virgin because hypergamy is a death sentence for men with average looks. But in a couple years I will make almost double the average salary in America, and that's when I get in the game. There's a reason Elon Musk can date supermodels despite not being handsome by any definition. Hang in there.

Title	CMV: The female dating advantage doesn't go away after 30, and making 6 figures isn't worth much on it's own to women anymore
Author	chalkwork
Upvotes	45
Comments	248
Date	May 24, 2018 11:34 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8lx8sg/cmv_the_female_dating_advantage_doesnt_go_away/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-the-female-dating-advantage-doesnt-go-away.262246 https://theredarchive.com/post/262246

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