Q4ALL: What do you think about this more traditional approach to relationship/marriage dynamics?

MissMaude · 2017-07-12T00:59:02+00:00

If you think divorce being viewed as an option or a hyper focus on sexual attraction is "traditional approach to marriage" have I got some fun news for YOU!

(I am looking into my crystal ball 🔮 and see you asking me to elaborate on this comment. To save us both time: traditional marriage is about sticking it out until death and the impetus behind staying is willful commitment not satisfaction, attraction or personal happiness.)

whichbladeN · 2017-07-12T01:06:25+00:00

I'm going to repost my response:

The constant absolutes makes it appear like he's never been in a relationship with a woman where he's actually wanted to make her happy.

I don't know if I'm an outlier, but I'm in a relationship where we don't have to constantly set hypothetical boundaries. And that's because we are both the kind of people who want to be... good people. So we are always making sure whatever arrangements are happening result in both of us being happy. Depending on the situation, some kind of compromise will be made, knowing that the self sacrifice won't be in vain because we love each other and we always do things for each other when we need to.

No dread. Ever. We don't use the threat of leaving, nor do we flaunt any perceived abundance to make the other uncomfortable.

figthief · 2017-07-12T01:45:20+00:00

Being ready to walk out is not a "traditional" marriage. There would be so much social stigma

sublimemongrel · 2017-07-12T01:34:22+00:00

Sounds awfully one-sided, but if that's a man's preferences and he finds someone willing to abide by all that, enjoy. Certain parts wouldn't work for me, like having sex when I don't really want to, dealing with dread game (assuming it's active), or having to defer all the time to a "captain." I mean I guess I'd have to ask, what is he bringing to the table? I suppose I could "defer more" if he was worth it, although I'd probably struggle greatly.

Il128 · 2017-07-12T05:48:13+00:00

What a bunch of BS! I just want a partner and equal, we both contribute what we can as best we can according to our talents.

This rape shit, this "you gotta fuck me!", this gross insecurity BS of "you must respect me!". both reek of immaturity and desperation for things no normal man expects or feels like he deserves.

I get respect and give respect based on reason and love. Sex happens because we are adults with wants and desires... Sometimes I initiate and sometimes she initiates. We are equal partners with different talents and common goals, dreams and desires.

uto-uto · 2017-07-12T01:48:09+00:00

aside from the normal "relationships have boundaries" stuff, it's very extreme and one-sided, far beyond just a traditional relationship. it's reducing someone's worth to what they can do for you, and throwing them away the minute you even think you won't get every little thing you want. it may work in gaining a doormat or two, but eventually even they'll get worn out or crushed completely. these are not normal or healthy ways of approaching a relationship. you can't even call this a relationship, honestly.

quotient_is · 2017-07-12T02:13:56+00:00

I think this approach to marriage is all about fluffing this guy's limp ego. Demanding respect is not the way to get it, in my opinion. It just comes off as petulant and self absorbed. (For the record, I don't actually know who this post is in reference to.)

For the love of god, sex should not be a chore. By demanding sex whenever you want it, no holds barred save illness, you're diminishing an act that should be pleasurable to the status of dishes. Or vacuuming. Or dusting. Don't demand that your wife dust your cock, fellas.

Make your woman orgasm. If you don't know how, then learn. If she can't, make it pleasurable for her at the very least. Be a decent human who pulls their weight and gives a fuck about their partner's needs, wants and desires. Your dick will thank you for it. She should also do all of these things for you (including being reasonable about sex) and if she doesn't, see my next point.

If she's being legitimately unreasonable or treating you poorly, fucking talk to her about it like a grown-up. Chances are both of you are unaware of damage you're inflicting on your relationship because humans are shit at introspection and we harbor all sorts of weird emotional hang ups.

Finally, the only person you can control and/or change is you. Improve yourself. Take feedback from your partner and give it back to them. If they do not fix their shit or if you find their expectations unreasonable, then GTFO. Some people cannot or will not grow and it's fair to move on from those folks.

pinkgoldrose · 2017-07-12T01:19:28+00:00

Why would anyone accept these terms?

I'm okay with any term that is mutual. Example: you don't call me names, I don't call you names.

I'm not okay with terms that go one way. Example: I make the final call on all major decisions.

The only reason why someone would accept these terms would be if she intends to use this man for his money. No wonder red pillers are stuck in another time dimension and complain their women want to turn them into betabux.

tiposk · 2017-07-12T01:18:47+00:00

Boundaries are vital. A man must set down clear boundaries and expectations he needs for a relationship with a woman. If he doesn't get them, he walks. End of story.

Works for both sexes. No relationship is perfect, but if very few needs are met I don't understand the purpose of the relationship.

An understanding of female nature is vital. If you don't understand how women work, you will never succeed and she will never respect you.

What is female nature? I think it's more important to understand the kind of women that you date as opposed to women in general.

Sexual attraction is vital. If she is not sexually attracted to you, it won't work. You cannot make her attracted. You cannot reason your way into attraction. This bullshit "attraction for a relationship" women talk about around here is solely to serve HER interests, not yours. Do not care one bit about "attraction for a relationship". The minute she shows any signs of lack of sexual attraction, you start dread. If that doesn't work in a couple of days, you walk.

Sexual attraction is important for most people. Attraction is established during dating. I don't understand how some people end up in LTRs where there's no sexual attraction. There are cases when attraction is lost or blocked. If this happens, I'd suggest therapy. Ending a LTR or a marriage after a few days doesn't seem wise.

However, I don't understand the "attraction for a relationship" bit. I imagine it's a reference to the alpha fucks beta bucks dichotomy. "Attracted for a relationship" means that the guy has both sexual and non-sexual qualities that make him good for a LTR. There is no relationship in most cases if the woman doesn't find the man sexually attractive.

I get respect and deference as head of household. I make the final call on all major decisions.

If that's his preference, good for him, but being a man doesn't make you entitled to be the head of the house. Calling him names and treating him badly is disrespectful. Not treating him like the head of the household simply means that she has a different preference when it comes to relationship dynamics. Personally, I wouldn't date a guy that expects me to submit to him.

RockinSocksII · 2017-07-12T01:18:57+00:00

Repost my previous comment:

If I can just reverse this a second.

If he can't get it up, I'm divorcing him.

Hmm, I could live with this. Though replace divorce with "break up" for me.

Littleknownfacts · 2017-07-12T00:59:36+00:00

Boundaries are vital. A man must set down clear boundaries and expectations he needs for a relationship with a woman. If he doesn't get them, he walks. End of story.

True.

An understanding of female nature is vital. If you don't understand how women work, you will never succeed and she will never respect you.

True. But you also need more than that for respect.

Sexual attraction is vital. If she is not sexually attracted to you, it won't work. You cannot make her attracted. You cannot reason your way into attraction.

True.

This bullshit "attraction for a relationship" women talk about around here is solely to serve HER interests, not yours.

True in most cases. Most modern guys are too beta, not enough alpha. It it good advice to tell men not to worry about being more beta. Yes, it is to serve the female imperative.

Do not care one bit about "attraction for a relationship".

False. Men who are not attractive for a relationship will only attract low quality women. But like I said above, most guys have too much relationship quality and not enough sexy quality.

The minute she shows any signs of lack of sexual attraction, you start dread.

Dread should be implicit and constant.

If that doesn't work in a couple of days, you walk.

Meh, depends on the length of the relationship and how invested he is and how quality she is.

Do not put up with one ounce of bullshit from a woman. The minute she starts flipping you shit, you walk. End of story.

This is bravado. Everyone messes up sometimes, even good women who want to succeed. The trick is to aknowlage she did something wrong, reenforce boundaries, and move forward. If it becomes a repetitive pattern, then yes, you walk.

I asked him about which "boundaries and expectations" he sets in a relationship and he said:

1) I get sex when I want/need it, on reasonable request (if she's ill or absent or projectile vomiting or supertired, then I forego the request). No bitching or complaining about sex. If she doesn't want sex with me or she bitches about it or unreasonably withholds sex on a regular basis, we're done. Game over. I'll divorce her.

Seems reasonable.

2) I get respect and deference as head of household. I make the final call on all major decisions. I am also no longer going to put up with her treating me with any disrespect, publicly or privately. No running me down or calling me names or disrespecting me in public, ever. No running me down or calling me names or disrespecting me in front of the kids, ever. I call out and confront, directly and firmly, all disrespectful conduct. If it gets to be a problem, and she continues it as she did before, we're done. Game over. Marriage over.

Seems fair. On the condition that he remains respectable, capable, and keeps the household on his head.

phantasic79 · 2017-07-12T03:49:22+00:00

Geez...you guys on this whole red blue pill thing post some extreme ideas. What's wrong with just being together and being happy. Why does everyone want to dominate the other person? I'm nice and girls are nice to me, works out so far for the last 37 years. I don't need to make the final call on decision, we can discuss it. Shouldn't we both enjoy having sex almost all the time. And why would you be with someone that disrespects you? Ain't noone got time for that.

midnightvulpine · 2017-07-12T10:23:25+00:00

As long as you're up front about your expectations, how you comport yourself in a relationship is up to you. If a woman wants to get into a relationship like this and is informed what it will be like, that's on her.

Personally, I think boundaries are good, but the tone of this post is off-putting. This is less patriarchal and more biblical. Or uses arguments that some evangelical men use when it comes to 'wifely duties'. Not exactly sexy in my opinion.

But like I said, be clear and up front and let her decide if that's how she wants to to. And leave the dread at home. If you're sinking to that level, you should probably just end it.

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wtknight · 2017-07-12T02:21:36+00:00

There is no mention of "love" at all in this post. If you love someone, you talk about your problems and work things out, through compromise or some other negotiation technique of mutual respect. You don't threaten to walk every time you don't get your own way.

jonascf · 2017-07-12T06:42:41+00:00

The poster cited seems to have no chill but except for that.. :

A traditional approach is a good thing if both parties chose that freely (as me and my gf did, kind of). But I don't think it should be the default option for a relationship.

bala-key · 2017-07-12T07:48:51+00:00

Divorce is not "traditional".

/r/deadbedrooms is full of people who are incapable of enforcing boundaries when it comes to sex and a minimum level of respect.

The quoted guy sounds like he had very high standards, he better have the goods to back that up.

rhettdu · 2017-07-12T08:03:19+00:00

I think this works with a plate. Not someone you've anchored your financial destiny to.

darla10 · 2017-07-12T11:08:54+00:00

Stating clear boundaries and needs for a relationship from the start is very healthy. Attempting to set them from a place of desperation can be very difficult, hence his Rambo tone.

In between the lines you can hear this poor man's attempt to claw back some respect from his wife. His marriage is not a happy one. It will be hard for him to climb out of that hole and he thinks setting these hard rules (boundaries) might help him. This is really sad. It's beyond traditional roles or dynamics. This guy is in the gutter.

mistresswhat · 2017-07-12T18:45:26+00:00

TRP: if your girlfriend isn't being perfectly deferential to you at all times and doesn't put out on demand, it's totally reasonable and okay to deliberately make her feel insecure in the relationship and convince her you're about to leave her for someone hotter.

Also TRP: a woman delaying sex slightly longer than she usually would in order to emotionally hook a man she sees as relationship material is eeeeeeeeeevil

goatismycopilot · 2017-07-12T03:30:35+00:00

This sounds like Lewis Cross and he is married so apparently this is working for him. It wouldn't work for me but some people prefer a rigidly traditional arrangement.

Doom_and-Gloom · 2017-07-12T03:46:32+00:00

Didn't someone to just post this exact same thread a few hours ago?

soccerstar77 · 2017-07-12T04:47:31+00:00

It's half-baked.

Yes, it's good for a man to stand up for himself, but normally if a man isn't getting sex already the woman doesn't feel the need to or desire to give it to him.

The threat of divorce largely won't do much cause the woman doesn't view it as bad.

IIHotelYorba · 2017-07-12T05:52:16+00:00

What I was originally going to post:

It makes sense to me. I doubt it really comes off this way in a marriage. It can just seem harsh all laid out. But I doubt anyone with a spine that isn't a spaghetti noodle would be ok being in a sexless marriage, or one without respect. All these things are warning signs of that.

For the mods- you're gonna do what you're gonna do but I'm 99.999% sure OP was giving dude CREDIT and not starting a with hunt.

Unabummer80 · 2017-07-12T12:52:27+00:00

Boundaries are vital

Definitely

An understanding of female nature is vital. If you don't understand how women work, you will never succeed and she will never respect you.

Most likely

Sexual attraction is vital. If she is not sexually attracted to you, it won't work. You cannot make her attracted. You cannot reason your way into attraction.

I think so. You dont wanna spend a year trying to figure out how to rekindle attraction when it is done. I make it clear that sex is very important to me. If that goes, there isnt any point being together.

1) I get sex when I want/need it, on reasonable request

I am also no longer going to put up with her treating me with any disrespect, publicly or privately.

These 2 are fair but laid out in strong terms. I dont think it's a traditional approach. Seems smart. Unfortunately it also seems like too little too late.

What we can get from this is the importance of establishing where your boundaries are very early on.

decadentegalitarian · 2017-07-12T13:03:40+00:00

This all assumes that TRP is true and that there are such things as "female nature" and "male nature". It's fine if you believe all that crap, but wouldn't this post be better suited for a forum where that's all already accepted without question (TRP, MGTOW, Incels) instead of one for debating the very premises you took for granted?

angels_fan · 2017-07-12T14:44:18+00:00

Dread for a couple of days??

You should ALWAYS have passive dread working. If you don't, well, then her not having sex with you is your fault. You're a low value man. Why would a woman have sex with a low value man?

Willow-girl · 2017-07-13T14:53:44+00:00

I think people can demand whatever standards or boundaries they want for their relationship. It's up to the other person to decide whether the compromise is acceptable. If it is, ain't nobody's business but their own!

That said, since this guy appears ready to cut and run pretty readily, I'd probably advise him to eschew marriage, possibly even cohabitation, and certainly parenthood! It's pretty easy to bail when you each have your own homes and jobs. It gets progressively harder the more you co-mingle lives and finances.

despisedlove2 · 2017-07-14T01:44:05+00:00

Mostly sensible. I would expect more.

Title	Q4ALL: What do you think about this more traditional approach to relationship/marriage dynamics?
Author	HopefulAboutADHD
Upvotes	11
Comments	242
Date	July 12, 2017 12:52 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6mqkcc/q4all_what_do_you_think_about_this_more/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4all-what-do-you-think-about-this-more.267045 https://theredarchive.com/post/267045

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