Why do Bluepill and Feminists argue that sex is a collaborative process between men and women?

username_6916 · 2016-07-06T18:17:26+00:00

If you approach life as a series of economic transactions, the model you laid out is correct.

But reality does not always coincide with your tidy little model, it is too blunt a tool to account for all the variance in human behavior.

The fact is that sex is very often a mutually beneficial thing for both men and women rather than the zero sum tug of war you have outlined above. Your outlook is limited, but reality is not.

SpaceWhiskey · 2016-07-06T17:32:32+00:00

If you view women as walking sex dispensers, you're going to have a bad time. Sex is not something women have, it's something humans do.

GridReXX · 2016-07-06T18:48:19+00:00

You ask this-->

But recently, I came across feminists who argued against this, stating something to the effect that sex is/ought to be something a man and a woman perform together, with no thought of exchange of value.

But also start of stating this -->

Some men ("alphas") possess intrinsic sociosexual status, and thus need offer nothing additional to procure sex.

Fxcking a man she's attracted to when she's in a mood where her libido matches his, is an "even exchange" and thus two people performing pleasure together.

Wowbaggerrr · 2016-07-06T17:31:24+00:00

If a woman doesn't want sex or have a high sex drive, then yes, it has a bartering feel to it. Sex is seen as the reward that the guy needs to work for.

In our increasingly sex-positive culture (especially for women), more women are encouraged to be open about their desire for sex. I think the desire was probably always there, but it would be considered "slutty" to vocalize it. In my own marriage, my sex drive is much higher than my husband's. In cases where both partners want sex, there would be no bartering, because both people are shooting for the same "reward".

ozymandias271 · 2016-07-06T20:38:51+00:00

"Sex is a collaborative process" talking about actual sex. Like, the act of fucking. Not about the process of obtaining sex. These are two different things.

Some people view sex as a sort of contest between men and women: the man tries to push as 'far' as he can, while the woman tries to resist him but eventually lowers her defenses. If the man goes 'all the way', then he has 'scored'. The feminist model, however, is that sex is something that people do together with a goal of mutual pleasure. A metaphor I like is sex as a jam session-- everyone getting together and making music just because it's fun, without a goal. The situation is win/win, because everyone involved wants everyone to enjoy themselves. And you don't elevate some sex acts over others: a handjob that leaves everyone involved satisfied is much better than PIV that leaves them feeling kind of disgusted and violated.

There is actually nothing in here about exchanging sex for money. It is perfectly possible to have collaboration-model sex for money-- in San Francisco there are sex-positive escorts like Kitty Stryker that specialize in it. Feminists also disagree with the notion that men typically/normatively pay for sex with dinner, but that is a different issue.

despisedlove2 · 2016-07-06T23:58:21+00:00

Feminism is based on the fantasy or ideology that men and women are the same gender with different biologies.

There is no need to be surprised anymore at the kind of intricate nonsense that continues to come out of their echo chamber.

theglassistoobig · 2016-07-07T01:51:59+00:00

If you keep treating it like a currency instead of a fun activity how can you expect anybody to enjoy it with you. Replace sex with badminton. I took you out so i think you owe me a game of badminton. Who is gonna want to play with someone who has that attitude? Instead they will probably go for a game with someone who has fun with it and makes it as fun as possible for all players.

[deleted] · 2016-07-08T12:00:31+00:00

Sex is something that women have and men want.

NO IT ISN'T FFS

Where do you guys get this idea?

Women have sex drives. Women like sex. A whole lot of women LOVE sex.

I honestly am baffled by this idea. Like reading TRP stuff I begin to wonder whether myself and you guys even live on the same planet

[deleted] · 2016-07-06T17:28:38+00:00

It's unusual but in my relationships I've always been the one with a higher drive and I've never seen much attraction in a partner who's not that into it.

I see no problem with prostitution, but most women enjoy sex for its own sake and I think that relationships that are sexually compatible tend to be happier relationships.

TheChemist158 · 2016-07-06T18:02:06+00:00

Of course many sexual relationships are transactions, like prostitutes or sugar babies. And as long as everyone knows what it going on and is fine with it, I don't think that's wrong. However, a lot of sex isn't like that.

What would a woman get out of sleeping with a popular guy? Nothing really. His popularity gets hey nothing. Women have sex for an abundance of reasons. Casual sex is likely because she enjoys it. She enjoys having sex with a particular guy, but that's all she gets, the enjoyment of sex. He enjoys the sex, she enjoys the sex, it's something that they enjoy together, not something that she gets something out of.

In a relationship? Maybe she has maintenance sex, to keep him around. He gets sex, she gets his presence and whatever about it she likes. But not all the time is it maintenance. I have sex with my boyfriend because I enjoy it. I don't get anything out of it that he doesn't. It's something that we do together.

So really the bottom line to counter your idea is that women can enjoy sex for what it is. It's not always about getting something, often it is just because she wants sex.

solarlexus · 2016-07-06T18:04:16+00:00

I don't see how your view is compatible at all with the RP idea that women offer alphas no-strings-attached sex, if they're not getting any gratification or anything in return.

Also, albeit anecdotally, women frickin love sex. And it's just absurd to generalize such a simplistic paradigm for half the population.

IndoAmericanKiller · 2016-07-06T23:28:53+00:00

For one thing, the male sex drive dwarfs the female one. Sex is something that women have and men want. Thus, a man must offer something to procure sex.

You have zero understanding of the female sex drive. Pointless discussing this topic with you.

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[deleted] · 2016-07-07T00:06:39+00:00

so what are virgin guys suppose to do, just always be bad cause of his zero experience, therefore any sex he has is not benefiting his partner. So in all he stays a virgin cause nobody wants him until be becomes high status (Alphas) why can't two people just share that experience together even ifs its not your cake with icing and cherry on top, teach a (beta) how to sex and he'll learn.

solarlexus · 2016-07-07T14:52:19+00:00

ITT: Mansplainers insist that women pretend to enjoy orgasms because despite having no romantic or sexual attraction to men, they have all agreed to devote their lives to manipulating men because it's obviously the most efficient way of getting anything in life.

DietCokeImOnMyKnees · 2016-07-08T04:28:28+00:00

I guess there not thinking about the "betas", they're imagining sex to be with the alphas, which as you yourself say "possess intrinsic sociosexual status, and thus need offer nothing additional to procure sex."

FairlyNaive · 2016-07-06T18:47:17+00:00

I feel like transactional and collaborative approaches are two sides of one coin. And both OP and the his opponents are just refusing to look at it as a whole. Also woman is the one who decides wheather the sex would be for fun or some other benefits and the cases of man being the recepient of "other benefits" are extremly rare.

[deleted] · Wed Jul 6 17:39:46 2016 UTC

[permanently deleted]

Title	Why do Bluepill and Feminists argue that sex is a collaborative process between men and women?
Author	IndoAmericanKiller
Upvotes	4
Comments	224
Date	July 6, 2016 5:21 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4rjm4n/why_do_bluepill_and_feminists_argue_that_sex_is_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-bluepill-and-feminists-argue-that-sex-is-a.274142 https://theredarchive.com/post/274142

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