TRPs lack of emphasis on looks is unrealistic and overall harmful for men

CovenantoftheSun · 2016-06-12T22:45:15+00:00

I'll challenge your view that they lack emphasis. I think they do emphasize being tall, having a nice face, etc.

There's no exercise you can do to get taller. The reason you see more posts about other factors of looks is because its within their emphasis to change their style. I have accused TRP of many things, but never that its not ostensibly about self improvement.

Confident, assertive, well dressed, well groomed, healthy body are within our realm of control.

Making ourselves taller is not. Cultivating traits, appearance, and demeanor is within our realm of control.

Imagine how useless it would be if the front page was covered with "daily reminder you should be tall." posts.

[deleted] · 2016-06-12T22:20:17+00:00

even though lifting doesn't really increase attractiveness unless the person is already attractive to begin with.

This is very far from the truth. If you look terminally ill skinny, lifting will improve your looks by leaps and bounds. Even your face might look better.

GridReXX · 2016-06-12T22:10:07+00:00

To a point, yes..

To say lifting doesn't help?? Your talking out of your ass.. A healthy body always looks more attractive then an unhealthy one.. The reason most people are unattractive today is because they are fat, not genetics

Archwinger · 2016-06-13T00:10:31+00:00

Are we reading the same stuff? I don't see how any literate person can read the red pill and walk away thinking that what he just read said that looks aren't critically important.

alreadyredschool · 2016-06-12T22:14:32+00:00

Looks Money Status - TRP has at least 33% emphasis on looks.

You also forget the mentions of style/fashion and haircuts, there is more than just "lift" and you underestimate the look factor lifting gives you.

Once you have reached your ceiling you should stop worrying about looks, that's just useless. The best way to increase your chances then would be plastic surgery, becoming more charismatic, moving to an area with uglier competition.

aRedThought · 2016-06-12T22:23:11+00:00

I'm going to group "confidence" and "dominance" into what I will call "Game."

You're saying that game doesn't matter, and you would be incorrect.

Game and your status/wealth are the only things you can control in your life, you can't change your face outside of surgery but that would be extreme and not actually a solution. Because it's the only thing you can control, we put a huge focus on it to get men the most success they can get. Believing otherwise is what we call in game to be a "limiting belief."
Not only am I a completely average looking guy that get's attractive women, you don't have to look far for examples of other guys that are the same. Do you think that all of the successful trp men on that sub are chads? Lol. I was your typical depressive/anxiety ridden/no game virgin that found game and trp and saw a 180 in my life. There are countless examples of others that will vouch.
A lot of attractive guys will manage to have sex with girls for one night, but can't keep them for longer periods of time because after the girl sees just how inept he is (lack of game) she WILL leave him for a guy that is competent.
Attractiveness is perceived, not objective for women like it is for men (Yes, Attractiveness is largely objective for men, sorry to burst any bubbles) this is not the same for women. For average looking guys, women need time to gauge your attractiveness. Attractiveness is a combination of qualities that do INCLUDE looks but is not entirely dominated by it.
Do you actually not see any average looking guys with attractive girlfriends? You sound like eggman (He later went on and got a girlfriend and left the black pill behind) Normal looking guys frequently can and do have success dating women better looking than them.

[deleted] · 2016-06-13T00:03:59+00:00

Correct.

Just because a variety of attributes are important, doesn't mean all attributes are of equal importance.

Attractive men don't have to jump through hoops to get women - quite the opposite. Interestingly, the dating roles defined by gender are somewhat reversed for attractive men. Instead of worrying about working on their 'game', & having to pass 'shit tests' in order to pursue women, the women pursue them.

However, physical fitness does play a big part in looking attractive. Some men look like completely different people when they lower their bodyfat by 10%+.

dakru · 2016-06-12T22:44:31+00:00

Here is the problem.

You are ignoring the fundamental difference between male and female sexuality. Females derive sexual pleasure from being desired. They get off on the feelings produced by men who approach them and desire them. Many many articles show women prefer being approached and advanced on then approaching men and advancing on them.

A man cannot stand in the middle of a night club and have a woman grab him for a kiss, or have her ask him to come back to his place. A woman, most certainly can stand in the middle of a night club, and have men come up to her, approach her, kiss her, tap her ass, and ask her to come home with them.

that the person should lift, even though lifting doesn't really increase attractiveness unless the person is already attractive to begin with.

Yea, you have never been to a frat party or a rave.

honeypuppy · 2016-06-12T22:57:17+00:00

Your looks matter approximately as much as your value of looks in a potential partner. If you don't care much about getting a good-looking partner, then your looks won't be much of a constraint (so long as they're not awful). In contrast, if your ultimate goal in life is to attract supermodels, then it very much matters whether you yourself have model-worthy looks.

Basically, the shallower you are, the more "shallow" it seems that women are.

stats135 · 2016-06-12T22:41:33+00:00

I would say TRP focuses TOO MUCH on looks. I would actually go as far to say that the reason I am redpill and yet don't frequent TRP often is because there is a grown lack of focus on what the end goal is. As much as they (mis)use the term alpha they seem to have forgotten why TRP, PUA, and the entire manosphere grown around the biological and sociological concept of "alphas" in the first place. We want to be alphas because alphas get preferred treatment in terms of sex and resources.

You are right to attack the whole bundle of "confidence", "dominance", "masculinity", and all that bullshit. But you are no better with your focus on looks. We call TRP a pill but its not like all you have to do is swallow it and everything works out. You actually have to work your ass off to get any results. So why the fuck are you working your ass off, changing your lifestyle, and overall reinventing yourself, destroying who you were in the past? It is to get sex and resources, not to just have people tell you "Oh, you are SO pretty!" or "Oh, you are SO Manly!"? Take a look at your own post. There is all this talk of looks and dating, and not a single mention of sex, or a cost and benefits discussion. I'm not saying that looks don't matter. But its like getting a college degree, you are going to have to spend a few years to get it, but once your done with it, its just something in the background, a means to an end.

GaiusScaevolus · 2016-06-13T14:16:19+00:00

This is a low effort post.

Change what you can, accept what you can't.

SkentyDooBabble · 2016-06-13T00:01:09+00:00

Your premise is wrong. Looks are not al that matters. Go look at some of the dudes who have seriously dedicated themselves to a PUA lifestyle. Plenty of genuinely ugly dudes bang models. They know how to create a fun, sexually arousing experience , and women love that shit.

I'm not saying this is attainable for most guys, but some smaller scale version of it certainly is

Five_Decades · 2016-06-13T03:46:42+00:00

Looks are important for a man, and make dating 10x easier. A woman will make excuses for your bad behavior if you are good looking enough and you will not have to try to get girls.

But overall they are less important to women than looks are to men.

Entropy-7 · 2016-06-13T08:47:30+00:00

If by "looks" you mean raw genetics then that is obviously not the case. Ok sure, there are some people who are so homely or looks are so fucked up that there is nothing they can do. However, for most people there are many aspects of your look that is within your power to control: weight, musculature, grooming, clothes.

Personality is a decisive factor. There are lots of so-so looking guys who absolutely slay because women like the way they talk. Guys can develop their personality, which is a big part of what game is all about.

ozymandias271 · 2016-06-13T14:31:55+00:00

Anecdotally, I know a bunch of guys who were kissless virgins until they figured out how to flirt and currently have like six girlfriends. And the incels I know have mostly not been less attractive than the promiscuous men I know-- the problem has almost always been shyness.

mrcs84usn · 2016-06-13T14:33:52+00:00

Pretty much anyone with sense knows looks are pretty much the only factor that truly matters when it comes to dating.

Hugh Hefner

Donald Trump

Ronnie Wood

The list goes on and on....

Yet I rarely see it brought up by people who claim to know the truth.

More like you choose to ignore it. What TRP says is essentially this: Looks matter a lot. Go ahead and lift, improve your wardrobe, clean your face, get a haircut, improve your posture, etc. However people are going to "max out" at some point, and at that point, you have to look at other things to improve because looks aren't the end-all-be-all of attraction.

A short person that's a minority can either gripe about how hard it is to get with a hot woman, or he can strive to improve in ways that he has control over. The defeatist attitude that you're suggesting is what is REALLY harmful to men.

lbspredh · 2016-06-13T19:47:32+00:00

focusing on things you have no control over is never helpful

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alreadyredschool · 2016-06-12T22:57:18+00:00

/thread

[deleted] · 2016-06-12T23:20:13+00:00

Pretty much anyone with sense knows looks are pretty much the only factor that truly matters when it comes to dating. Most other things have very little impact on overall dating success

That's provably wrong for men, but mostly true for women. You can Google it.

Most seem to ignore it and suggest being "confident" and "dominant" or that the person should lift, even though lifting doesn't really increase attractiveness unless the person is already attractive to begin with.

There's a lot more to the advice to lift that affect attraction other than the physical effects.

[deleted] · 2016-06-13T00:22:40+00:00

[permanently deleted]

despisedlove2 · 2016-06-13T02:36:19+00:00

Lifting improves the man's looks to be the best they can be.

DaphneDK · 2016-06-13T02:55:25+00:00

Looks matter if you're ugly. But once you get to around average, then there's a rapidly diminishing returns going further up the scale. Also being fit is looks, and trp talks about lifting all the time.

caesarfecit · 2016-06-13T09:33:31+00:00

Looks being the prime factor of dating is simply bullshit. Don't get me wrong, they definitely factor into the equation, but if you think it's the be all and end all, you're simply not paying attention.

The prime factor in dating is how the other person makes you feel.

That's it. Every single phenomenon in dating is explained by that.

Let's take looks for example. Why do they matter?

First off, good looking people are pleasant to look at. They stimulate us sexually.

Next being with a good looking person is a status symbol. It means we had options and didn't compromise. Everyone wants to be with someone handsome/pretty all other things being equal or a given.

Also, being good looking does take some effort. It takes attention to detail, discipline, self-awareness and self-respect. It even takes a little creativity.

When you stop and think about it, there's so many other things that affect the practical, real world viability of a relationship, or even just the possibility of a sexual connection.

So why do looks matter? Because of how they make us feel.

That's why girls can compromise on male looks, if he's high status or has good social skills, or has some money.

And that's why girls with good game and some charisma can punch well above their weight in the dating pool. Every guy has met a 7 that's objectively more attractive than the awkward standoffish 9.

Sepean · 2016-06-13T10:14:53+00:00

TRP puts great emphasis on lifting, grooming and dressing well, so I wouldn't say that it doesn't put emphasis on looks.

However, TRP correctly recognizes that looks are not the only factor and certainly not the most important one. For girls who have nothing to go on but looks of course looks are extremely important, but just a few minutes in frame and game become much more important.

nomdplume · 2016-06-13T17:06:43+00:00

Pretty much anyone with sense knows looks are pretty much the only factor that truly matters when it comes to dating.

Put me in the "someone without sense" column, then.

The most successful players I've known were not the most physically attractive (some weren't particularly physically attractive at all).

I was most successful during a time in life when I was also probably at my least physically attractive, and least successful at a time when I was most physically attractive.

I'll take having good game over being good looking every day of the week.

[deleted] · 2016-06-13T17:18:36+00:00

The reason TRP doesn't emphasizes certain aspects of looks (height, facial features, etc) is because you can't change them.

The reason TRP emphasizes other aspects of looks (muscles, clothes, etc) is because it's totally in ones power to change.

TRP focuses on the aspects of appearance that one can fix. It doesn't help to tell someone to be taller or have better genes, but it does help to tell someone to lift or dress better.

dopesk1 · 2016-06-13T17:20:06+00:00

Ive said it over and over and over

True redpillers are ugly as fuck!

End of.

2016-06-13T19:17:03+00:00

[deleted]

KrispyMcSockington · 2016-06-13T19:40:44+00:00

Most seem to ignore it and suggest being "confident" and "dominant" or that the person should lift, even though lifting doesn't really increase attractiveness unless the person is already attractive to begin with.

These are factors within your control without costing too much to change. Exercising, having a better attitude and being confident will still help. If you're a 5, getting to be a 7 is an achievement. If you're trying to bed 9s it might be tougher, but there is still some benefit to improving what you can.

You could consider surgery but not everyone can afford this. How would TRP look if it turned into a plastic surgery sub as a sexual strategy?

That being said, I would encourage someone who has 0 hope to consider lifting plus surgery to improve their odds if they can afford it. Looks are important, but even having a little improvement in exercise and attitude is better than being perpetually stuck in the friendzone or being rejected. If you went from getting laid once a year to once a month, it's a plus, isn't it?

Madness20 · 2016-06-13T19:46:28+00:00

It's funny, because i'd replace "looks" with "status" and it makes a lot more sense to me.

Pretty much anyone with sense knows "status" are pretty much the only factor that truly matters when it comes to dating. Most other things have very little impact on overall dating success (this isn't to say certain things won't matter to certain women, but that in terms of OVERALL success status is the main decider). Yet I rarely see it brought up by people who claim to know the truth. Most seem to ignore it and suggest being "confident" and "dominant" or that the person should lift, even though lifting doesn't really increase attractiveness unless the person is already attractive to begin with. The importance of "status" is necessary for people to understand so as to not waste their time in doomed endeavours.

Fixed. ;)

edit: just because

smokecheck1976 · 2016-06-13T23:21:24+00:00

Because in most cases looks aren't terminal.
Actively losing fat can help your facial appearance. Choosing the right haircut to frame your face is can help. If you need glasses, the right shape of glasses can help. Paying attention to a color palette that matches your skin can help. Dressing well can overcome a lot of things. Being able to speak well can carry you a lot further.

Really good looks can open a door. Looks alone will not carry the day.

[deleted] · 2016-06-14T06:25:37+00:00

TRP's emphasis on sex above all else is unrealistic and overall harmful for men

[deleted] · 2016-06-14T22:24:19+00:00

No, trp is right on this.

Why focus on things you can't change?

Most other things have very little impact on overall dating success (this isn't to say certain things won't matter to certain women, but that in terms of OVERALL success looks are the main decider

True that looks are the main decider overall. Women are extremely visual.

But lifting and looking fit can make the overall package look a lot more appealing. A puffy, sallow-faced good-looking man might not be as appealing as a fit, healthy-looking less attractive man.

The importance of looks is necessary for people to understand so as to not waste their time in doomed endeavours.

It's not doomed to make the most of yourself. Trp is right in working with what you have. Their advice will increase success with women.

Whisper · 2016-06-14T22:29:19+00:00

lifting doesn't really increase attractiveness unless the person is already attractive to begin with.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/128/343/1306699190001.jpg

[deleted] · 2016-06-14T23:05:32+00:00

I don't know what RedPill you've been reading, but most of RedPill is insistent the only thing women want is THIS

pitaenigma · 2016-06-15T08:30:11+00:00

https://youtu.be/9NF5XU-k2Vk

[deleted] · 2016-06-13T10:58:12+00:00

RSD Tyler disproves everything here. Game wins above all else for men. For women, looks will still matter the most but doesn't guarantee anything long term.

Title	TRPs lack of emphasis on looks is unrealistic and overall harmful for men
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	0
Comments	145
Date	June 12, 2016 9:57 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4nsi0a/trps_lack_of_emphasis_on_looks_is_unrealistic_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/trps-lack-of-emphasis-on-looks-is-unrealistic-and.274343 https://theredarchive.com/post/274343

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