I don't understand why 'hypergamy' is bad.

dreckmal · 2014-05-08T16:18:36+00:00

Why is this considered a negative female trait?

Because it is anti-loyalty. Most men I know value loyalty very highly. The reality as seen from a male's perspective is this: It is much easier for women to 'get' men. If the woman I end up with is going to leave me for the next better thing, why should I put forth the effort?

runswithelves · 2014-05-08T13:06:22+00:00

From my understanding, hypergamy in Red Pill theory is the tendency of a woman to always be looking for the best mate. Allegedly, this is in a woman's nature, and if she is settled down with a great partner, but a better one comes along, she will dump him for the better one because it is her nature.

I don't agree with the existence of it in the first place, because it diminishes and downplays the effects of bonding, both on a psychological and biological level.

Some damaged women do jump from person to person. Some women do have "placeholder" men that they keep around until something better comes along. However, these things are hardly unique to women, and hardly representative of the whole gender.

Additionally, many people seem to use hypergamy to explain every break up. A woman found out she was incompatible with her partner, broke up, and moved on to someone else? HYPERGAMY. A wife was tired of her husband's lack of emotional contribution? HYPERGAMY.

It basically puts the expectation on a woman to be a mind reader and know whether a relationship will be compatible in the long-run, to know whether her partner will change or not or whether feels will still be the same after the infatuation stage of a relationship. If she doesn't know, the relationship goes bad, and she dares to leave, she's an evil hypergamous slut.

I think the reason why Red Pill is preoccupied with hypergamy is because I feel that many Red Pill relationships are built upon superficial aspects for both parties...there's not much trust, bonding and partnership that ensures a relationship will survive past infatuation, so it may indeed feel like women are always jumping to the next person after you.

Ironically, Red Pill theory also encourages you to be on the lookout and have options to prevent oneitis, which seems pretty similar to the explanation of female hypergamy. One could even argue that if a man gives off vibes that he's always looking out for other options, his partner will start doing the same.

ianturpiesmoustache · 2014-05-08T12:10:36+00:00

It's essentially women "marrying up". So marrying someone with more wealth, status, power, etc. This has historically been the case, just as men marrying up in terms of looks has.

The accusation I see bandied about these days whenever it's brought up is that status is the only/most important thing most women take into consideration when it comes to marriage. I've also seen it used to suggest that most women will up and leave their partners if a better option presents itself. It's all silly, really.

GridReXX · 2014-05-08T18:02:16+00:00

I'm a guy and most guys I know are similar on this, don't we as men do the exact same thing?

This is the part I don't understand too. Every guy I know is also "hypergamous" according TRP's definition.

I'm assuming they focus on female hypergamy because that's who they want to have sex with, but I fail to see how men aren't hypergamous as well.

Archwinger · 2014-05-08T19:51:09+00:00

Hypergamy isn't "bad." It just is.

Example: A woman has a husband or boyfriend, and over time, things grow stale with him. He gains weight, he gets demoted at work and makes less money, he's not as passionate about his interests any more and mostly just drinks beer and watches TV. The woman is out with her friends that weekend, and a really hot guy starts chatting her up and flirting with her. They talk and there's a great connection and great chemistry -- far better than what she ever had with her current man. Plus, this new guy's great on paper. Great job, big plans for the future, smart as heck.

We wouldn't ask this woman to stay with her current man, just on principle, would we? If she has an opportunity for greater happiness, greater success, and a better life for herself and her children, isn't she obligated to make the move? If she stayed with her current man, just because "it's the right thing to do," she would resent him, become even more fixated about all the things that are making her unhappy. She'd feel an immense sense of loss. Maybe she can fix and improve some things about her current relationship, but it would never be as good as with the better man.

For some reason, it's wrong and evil to acknowledge this trait. Or at least, it's wrong and evil to acknowledge it without saying, "Not all women" and "men too sometimes."

The Red Pill recognizes this, and many other unflattering realities, in an effort to teach men how to navigate these realities. Yeah, a lot of guys -- especially the newer and more bitter ones -- like to piss all over this unflattering behavior of women, and let's face it: It's not very admirable behavior. But it's what happens. You wouldn't ask a woman to stay unhappy on principle.

So the better result is to teach men that this exists, and how to deal with it. That way, the guy's not unpleasantly surprised when he expected his girlfriend/wife to be completely loyal to the end, just because they were together, when he's been letting his value slip and his wife's been hanging around other, better men.

TRPACC · 2014-05-08T20:49:03+00:00

Its not bad, men should know about it though.

robesta · 2014-05-08T21:04:49+00:00

So, for hypergamy, my view on this is that a woman naturally wants the best, most powerful man she can find. This is what they are attracted to. Men want the hottest woman that will regularly give them sex.

This is the baseline attraction. This does not diminish agency. For instance, just because that 22 year old blond wants to fuck that middle aged guy, doesn't mean he's going to. His values and fears may overcome that. In the absence of consequences however, he's much more likely to fuck the hot blond.

Now move to the female. She's married and her boss/personal trainer/neighbor is interested. On some capacity he's a better option than her husband. She still has the values/fears to overcome the temptation. The fear used to come in the form of potentially losing a provider, her children, and the respect of those around her. Now all those fears are gone, so we're left with just her values to prevent her from cheating.

Child support, alimony, and changing societal values have taken away most of the disincentives for people, women especially to follow their base instincts.

Hypergamy is not bad. Unchecked hypergamy destroys society.

_whistler · 2014-05-08T21:29:00+00:00

Hypergamy is not bad. It is not good. It simply is.

lev21pirate · 2014-05-08T22:05:23+00:00

Its neither good or bad from a Redpill perspective , it simply is.

I don't even think its accurate, but it acts as a place-holder explanation for the cryptic reasons you got dumped and/or be cheated on.

FleetingWish · 2014-05-08T22:55:20+00:00

I don't know that hypergamy is necessarily considered "bad" (though I'm sure it depends on which RPer you ask). It is argued that it is instinctual . Meaning that we have less choice in the matter than we might like to have. Arguing that hypergamy is "bad" is no different than arguing hunger is bad. If you truly believe it is an instinct it makes no sense to pass a value judgement on it. It's neither good, nor bad, it just is.

The heart of the red pill is this idea of getting to the "truth" of relationships (and whether you agree with what they deem as "truth", that is what they are doing). So you may ask why does the idea of hypergamy make so many red pillers angry, if it is just meant to be a statement of fact. One reason they are angry is they'd been lied to. They've been told they could succeed by "just being themselves", when in actuality they had to be "the best versions of themselves they could possibly be". They see how if they had known they could have done something different, and had a happier life.

The truth can make you angry if you find out about it after you've been lied to. Just imagine how angry the emperor must have been when he found out he was walking in the parade wearing no clothes.

[deleted] · 2014-05-08T17:08:48+00:00

[permanently deleted]

endendino · 2014-05-08T11:27:57+00:00

i don't think it's bad, but it is commodifying. the era of the soulmate is coming to an end, and the "is this the best deal i can get?" mindset is making a comeback, fueled by the huge increase in opportunities afforded by more casual relationships, online dating, etc.

people are losing their brand loyalty as they become more informed consumers. this leads to anxiety in less competitive "products", and in the last few remaining romantics.

O3EAN · 2014-05-08T12:30:29+00:00

The official stance on it is that it isn't BAD, it just IS, learn to deal with it.

moonlandings · 2014-05-08T13:14:48+00:00

Hypergamy isn't bad. It's just how things are. That's why we say the red pill is bitter. Because it sucks to know that if you don't push yourself constantly to be the best man you can be and maintain your frame and leadership role; she'll leave you for a man who does.

CallMeMrBadGuy · 2014-05-08T12:41:15+00:00

My take of it isnt that hypergamy is bad. It's there by nature and you should just realize it and strive to always be improving yourself and making yourself the best of the availability around. As with anything you can exploit or defend against things with the knowledge of it to your advantage to. It's just something that would be useful for noobs and the uninitiated to be aware of. Other viewpoints may differ because TRP is constantly inundated by new and inexperienced members. I dont look bad on a woman trying to get the best she can get either. It's all part of the game and their nature. Id do the same for my area of interest as a male (looks, and sexual appeal) too.

rulenumber303 · 2014-05-08T13:55:20+00:00

Well, the flip side of women having standards is suddenly men are expected to live up to those standards. And most men are lazy and would prefer not to have demands placed upon them.

[deleted] · 2014-05-09T07:13:18+00:00

You are a bit confuse.

The problem with hypergamy is not when she trades an abusive, unattractive man for <name of some hot male celebrity look-alike>.

The problem is when she falls for the grass-is-greener fallacy. She might be sweet talked by a new, mysterious, and (initially) fascinating man who's all talk, no walk. She might meet a man with a better career but who is horrendously inconsiderate and insensitive once you've committed to him. He might not even be a bad person, but just different. Once she meets him, she's decided that he's better than what she currently has.

There will always be people around us who are better in some aspects while worse in others. Once you've made the decision that one person satisfies you sufficiently to be in a committed relationship, some loyalty is expected.

Now, even then you can claim that some men do this, too. But women disproportionately rationalize mate-trading behavior, even if everything in the relationship was working well before she met her new love of her life:

"You should have fought for me." "I felt we were growing apart." "I felt a connection with him I never felt with you (once I met him, that is)." "I don't think we were right for each other." "You were just the safe choice."

Men tend to be more honest with themselves (and their partners) about cad-like behavior.

IIHotelYorba · 2014-05-08T11:36:37+00:00

LTR's play by a different set of rules

The main argument against hypergamy is that they don't play by a different set of rules during an LTR, and will drop you like a hot rock for the bigger better deal. Also not necessarily a new idea, but it's meant to counter the idea that women basically always go for deep and meaningful relationships.

[deleted] · 2014-05-13T20:42:16+00:00

Having standards is not negative per se. But if 80% of women go for the 20% of men as is often claimed by TRP, that means that being in the that 80% of men who aren't "high value" enough sucks. Hypergamy isn't just "having standards" it means that only somebody having higher SMV (using another red pill term) than yourself can be an ideal partner.

SirNemesis · 2014-05-08T14:57:17+00:00

Hypergamy (together with male promiscuity) interferes with assortative mating and monogamy. In conservative environments, it results in polygyny, which is rather bad for society. In liberal environments, it results in lots of casual sex between average women and highly attractive men, which is also bad for society, no one can establish committed relationships early on (average women are too busy hooking up with hotter guys to create relationships with average men, and hotter guys are too busy hooking up with average women to create relationships with attractive women).

Hypergamy as a strategy is in stark contrast to the common male strategy of only going for women perceived to be "in their league".

sh1v · 2014-05-08T17:45:29+00:00

Much harder for an average dude to get casual sex than a chick. Supply and demand. That's hardly controversial even here at PPD (even though I see your willfully blind disagreement coming from a mile away) - you can easily extrapolate from there who benefits the most from an open relationship.

That said I'm not all that averse to open relationships. It's the same shit as spinning plates and you can always tell whichever plates need to hear it that she's the emotionally special one. Or whatever it is you poly types like to tell each other.

masterrod · 2014-05-09T02:51:58+00:00

his is something TRP seems to see as a negative trait in women and some posters adamantly denounce it. The part that confuses me is, when did standards become a bad thing? I'm a guy and most guys I know are similar on this, don't we as men do the exact same thing? Why on earth would I sleep with someone that doesn't meet that standard? I wouldn't be there because I wanted to, and I'm not a charity worker. What do I have to gain by sleeping with a girl who I think is ugly? ...sooo yea... Why is this considered a negative female trait?

It's a negative trait because at the root it's selfish. Often people in love forget that the foundation of love is selfishness, it's the transition from the fantasy to reality that causes difficulty in relationships.

This trait matters because when a guy is no longer the best he will often cling to the idea, that "she loves me". Sure she may, but she may also desire some other guy who is "better".

The other problem with hypergammy is that it is closely linked to a ladies self image. Unfortunately, her self evaluation of worth can change within a relationship, sometimes to a guy's benefit or to a guy's detriment.

The other problem is that a relationship with a lady that doesn't understand that she is all she needs to be happy, is often a losing proposition.

The guys want the hottest girls, The girls want the hottest guys.

Not true at all. Guys don't always want the hottest girls, and women don't always want the hottest guys. In TRP lingo women want gina tingles.

But at least to me, it seemed obvious that this applied to both sexes fairly equally.

This not true at all, because women have much more choice than men, so they are naturally discerning.

Akodo · 2014-05-08T13:52:24+00:00

Hypergamy (as you have defined it, or by any other meaning) is not "objectively" bad, it's only bad for those who don't benefit from it (said group is male-skewed).

naturalredpill · 2014-05-09T05:06:26+00:00

Look it up. Hypergamy is marrying up. Not I thought you would date me, not I thought we had a relationship, but financially gaining by taking the father's child support and marrying a richer guy who will be the new father figure and pay more than her half of the cost of child raising. Father better not lose his job or he's going to jail. I, for one, will never again subject myself to the jurisdiction of family courts in the USA. Sons, learn from your biological fathers.

GaiusScaevolus · 2014-05-09T20:54:54+00:00

I don't really consider it a bad thing, I just want y'all (BPers and women) to stop denying it exists. I consider the effects of untamed hypergamy on marriage detrimental, and I think women who divorce because they aren't "hhaaaapppyy^TM" are violating a social contract, but getting the best deal isn't wrong. Just don't cry foul when the one you traded up to upgrades from you.

Zackcid · 2014-05-10T22:28:47+00:00

It's not simply about having standards. It generally revolves around women dating and going after only men who are better than them. Men don't have this. You can be a loser, folding shirts at walmart, have a low reputation, etc. but we'll still date you.

Ever notice how the age in couples are almost always where the man is older than the woman? This is one factor in hypergamy. This happens throughout all slices of life. I remember vividly how the cute girls from my class would often date high school guys, even though we we're like 14 years old or something. Girls had no interest in guys of the same age.

ThePacketSlinger · 2014-05-12T17:50:04+00:00

Hypergamy isn't a bad thing, it's natural, and it's just how women are wired. People grow up watching Disney movies and romantic comedies and expect women to stick it out with men once the guy "gets" them, even if he loses all of his attractive qualities. Realizing that this is not how things work in reality is really frustrating for some of these people, thus all of the negativity. This is mostly just people who haven't quite come to terms with it all yet. TRP has exploded over the past 6 months, most of the subscribers are still in that anger phase.

Title	I don't understand why 'hypergamy' is bad.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	16
Comments	182
Date	May 8, 2014 11:09 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2516oc/i_dont_understand_why_hypergamy_is_bad/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/i-dont-understand-why-hypergamy-is-bad.285759 https://theredarchive.com/post/285759

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