Do Not Open Up to Women About Your Struggle

P4_Brotagonist · 2016-05-10T23:05:04+00:00

Couldn't agree more. When I was in an LTR about 10 years back, my best friend was killed in a car wreck. At that point I had been exclusive with this girl for about 6 months. I broke down crying about it finally one day out of nowhere. She asked what was wrong and I told her I finally was feeling something(I had never really felt that sense of loss and pain until that moment). A year later we broke up and she actually brought that shit up about how she always knew I was weak because I cried over someone dying.

yaysmr · 2016-05-10T18:34:00+00:00

I will echo the advice of NEVER opening up about weakness, trials, or travails to a woman or someone you don't trust. No upside to letting such people in on it at all, tons of downside.

Only 'exception' is if you can immediately talk about how you overcame it/are overcoming it. And make it clear that you are going to deal with it yourself. Even better if you can tell it as a rousing story with your ultimate victory as a climax.

For instance, I sometimes bring up how I used to be afraid of heights... until I went skydiving. And I used to be afraid of public speaking... until I did six years of speech and debate competition. I'm not afraid of heights or public speaking anymore.

Or if you're going through an issue, bring it up in a general sense and then talk in depth about your plan for beating it. Don't whine about that project at work or your shitty boss unless you are already in the midst of beating the issue and can describe your efforts and your plans.

What is VITAL is avoid the appearance that you're in need of help. NEVER ask them their input, and always project the image that the situation is under control.

She won't be interested in your issues, but you may be able to gain some SMV in their eyes if you show that you don't back down from personal challenges and are completely capable of overcoming them.

TryDoingSomethingNew · 2016-05-10T16:48:08+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Cyralea · 2016-05-10T18:00:40+00:00

I always laugh when I hear men, even some RP men, advocate for showing vulnerability in a relationship. It never works out for you. Not in the long run.

Displaying weakness is always a hit to your SMV. Sometimes you've got the SMV to keep attraction alive, oftentimes you don't. You never benefit long-term from doing so.

Save your struggles for your close circle of confidants and your immediate family.

VasiliyZaitzev · 2016-05-10T17:29:58+00:00

I will say again: Don't show weakness. The Skipper always knows.

nice_and_friendly · 2016-05-10T16:14:31+00:00

yep. there are no limits to this. i lost a great plate last year because one time when she texted me to flirt dirty, i told her i was at the airport flying to detroit because one of my friends had just died. i told her i was a mess and id find her another time. she totally fell off of the radar after that, never heard a word from her again. i am 100% sure that if i had just ignored her in that moment instead of revealing my compromised emotional state, id still have that pussy to this day. they dont want to hear it, guys. ever, period. hearing about your feelings, emotions, and struggles makes them feel physically ill and disgusted by you.

MattyAnon · 2016-05-10T18:30:47+00:00

Being vulnerable to the RedPill means taking chances and facing rejection and turmoil, not hiding from it.

Exactly. The vulnerability is "I am so awesome I can afford to take chances and even losing is funny because I have so many surplus time/resources/money/girls".

I respect Manson, but his "be vulnerable" chapter is too easy to misunderstand.

Do not ever be vulnerable in the BP sense. Women are hard-wired to disrespect and exploit male weakness, not to support it.

abdada · 2016-05-10T16:12:11+00:00

I wouldn't open up to anyone about any struggles I had. Women, men, family, whatever.

The only 3 people I ever discussed my struggles with were my mentors: my dad, my doctor and a guy who showed me the business ropes in my teen years.

TryDoingSomethingNew · 2016-05-10T18:12:58+00:00

Hard lesson learned. It goes against what you should be able to rely on a woman for, or could in decades past, but you're right:

Even with seemingly "good women", I will no longer take the risk. Once it happens, you're fucked, or at least left wondering what's going to happen down the road.

And yet I'll listen to other people's problems and withhold judgement pretty well, and always try (within reason) to give good advice and positive encouragement.

It's a really, really fucked up dynamic with today's women.

TheHappyGiant · 2016-05-11T00:06:40+00:00

I do want to state an exception, if you want to marry a girl. Opening up is a damn good test to see if she'll stick with you through the hard times.

chrisindub · 2016-05-11T04:25:17+00:00

I agree 💯.

Don't ever let a woman see you vulnerable in any way.

Women will pretend like they are OK with vulnerability, but that's only because women don't even know what they want.

The second they see genuine vulnerability in you, they lose respect and will use that weakness to control you. Their attraction to you died that very moment.

I am a general surgeon, so I make decent money, do you know what en ex told me when she broke up with me in residency?

She saw that I owed a couple grand on a student loan and didn't like that I had outstanding debt.

I was literally two years away from making a few grand a day and she saw a small debt and it totally killed it for her. Don't ever tell a woman everything.

You can tell them 80% of what's going on, but never be completely honest.

Thenextprince · 2016-05-10T16:45:19+00:00

And never show a woman weakness. Beat the weakness out of your soul, become the best man you can be.

chadeusmaximus · 2016-05-10T19:51:39+00:00

Not just LTRs either. Whenever I talk to my mom about my problems, she alsays chooses that moment to start nagging over some stupid shit. Which of course makes things worse.

RickThacker · 2016-05-10T20:19:54+00:00

100% accurate. I had a similar thing happen in January, and this just goes to prove it's the rule. My thoughts? Women can exist in their natural state of femininity only when they can rely on your wisdom. If you doubt your own wisdom, don't share it with your woman because it'll bring her out of the feminine and drive her towards someone else who, by acting on their wisdom, can allow her to feel her natural femininity.

When you act from a place of wisdom you can live at your edge. If you don't feel the wisdom inside, trust your friends to push you out towards your edge, and let the woman respect you for living there. But the woman.. she's not trying to be your friend and help you find your edge.. she wants to be your woman and trust that you have the wisdom to know how to get there.

Il128 · 2016-05-10T16:44:12+00:00

Never ever allow a woman to know in anyway that you are not a rock and perfectly happy and sound in every way.

This fact is one of the reasons I plate and maintain distance between myself and plates. Plates are for household chores and booty calls. The reward they get in exchange is getting to be around a high SMV male who is a rock.

IGoYouStayTwoAutumns · 2016-05-12T00:02:35+00:00

THE EASIEST WAY TO TOSS A PLATE: just show a few seconds of vulnerability...

Had a plate a few months ago, beautiful woman, sex was great and she really had her shit together too (career-wise, unlike a lot of the trashier women out here in LA) but, for whatever reason, I just wasn't feeling it with her (which of course only turned her on even more I'm sure), so I never upgraded her from plate status during the brief time we were together.

Few weeks in the girl starts getting on my case a bit--why don't we ever go out, do anything together etc (also, little arguments popping up here and there, and drama is something I NEVER tolerate in a plate, not for a second)--and I realize: I'm probably gonna have to cut her off soon. But then I think, well maybe I should just get her to walk away, and then all the work is done for me, no? And the easiest way to do that? Why, SHOW SOME VULNERABILITY OF COURSE (something she'd been on me about for a little while anyway, claiming she was into New Age-y sensitive men etc).

So I take her up on the challenge (knowing full well this is gonna be the death knell, which I'm totally fine with), and I say "Yeah, well, things have been kind of tough lately... I came out here to be a screenwriter, I spent years writing this big sci fi project, finally put it out there, I was so proud of it, so sure it would take the town by storm and now, turns out, it might not even get sold or optioned, let alone made... Hollywood has changed, no one is buying original material anymore and honestly, given the state of the market, I really don't know what I'm gonna do next..." etc etc. (All of which was true, but typically would be information I'd never share with a woman.) She takes all this in, says "Thank you for being vulnerable with me--I appreciate it." AND THEN VANISHES INTO THE NIGHT, AND I NEVER HEAR FROM HER EVER AGAIN.

Now granted this worked in my favor (as she was a plate I was gonna drop anyway) but I am SOOO very glad that I had the opportunity to try this little experiment and see the results firsthand. When women say they want vulnerability it's a shit test gentlemen--NEVER, EVER SHOW WEAKNESS. Maybe years ago when women had fewer options you could get away with it every now and then but these days, when a new fuck buddy for them is just a single tap on the iPhone away, forget it, you'll be left behind, forgotten in a heartbeat.

iDont_too · 2016-05-10T18:10:21+00:00

If she's fucking a hippy bartender two weeks later, your relationship can't have been in a good place initially

PenInACup · 2016-05-10T19:55:23+00:00

Law 4: always say less than necessary. It wasn't necessary to lean on her and give her this information.

Law 11: learn to keep people dependant on you. Not the other way around. She must be dependent on you, when you show her your dependence on her she dries up instantly.

Law 28: enter action with boldness.

Somethings I thought of when reading your post. Thank you

chances_are_ur_a_fag · 2016-05-11T01:16:38+00:00

she was most likely fucking the hippie bartender before you even opened up to her. correlation doesn't imply causation. unless you know specifically this has happened after your heart to heart. even then, doesn't exactly mean that.

XtremePeace · 2016-05-11T03:16:21+00:00

There are a few high quality women out there who will see your potential and want to rise you up. Seriously. But for the most part you are right.

cryoshon · 2016-05-10T22:30:06+00:00

i have a number of objections:

Don't go to women for support, turn to your male friends instead.

you also look weak to males when you open up to them; every child on the playground knows that weakness invites aggression. thus begins the behind-the-back shit talking by your compatriots. the difference is that they can't break your heart, only sting it with rejection. shitty people are going to be shitty. don't try to pin the sins of a shitty person on the coincidental fact that the shitty person was a woman you cared for. do try to remember that there have likely been times when you yourself have rejected your male friends when they showed weakness.

the fact is, nobody "respects your struggle" when you frame it in such a victimlike way. everyone struggles; struggles are cheap, but heavy enough that nobody wants to take on the struggles of another. begging for respect of your struggle is begging for pity. remember: pity is close to hatred, so don't look for respect but rather cut an example that sensible people will render respect to.

You will hear people say "Be Vulnerable" this does not mean open up and show a women your soft side.

this is exactly what that means. the logic: you are so strong that even baring your most vulnerable parts will not endanger you. sure, some women love the stoical types-- i, as one of those stoical types, know this-- but emotionally intelligent women will understand reticence as fear of being emotionally harmed by someone else, and they will infer that such a harming has occurred in the past, raising questions about your worthiness.

now onto a few more radical bits: men are not islands emotionally or in any other capacity. the lie that a man is an independent ubermenschen is a dangerous one that most men (TRP is a hilariously overwrought example here) unconsciously endorse to some degree. the result of internalizing this perverse dictum is poor mental health, and lo, men are far more likely to kill themselves than women. you bottle the emotions up, then you carry the weight. your male friends are going to help you carry the weight, if they're good people, and good friends-- but they'll never be able to really intuit what's going on in your head any better than you can. besides, it'd be weird if they did. that's where women come in: it's natural to confide in women because they're emotionally adept.

the solution isn't to emotionally withdraw from women because you're scared of them hurting you, because that ends up hurting you more in the long run. believe it or not, women can tell when you're holding back emotionally, and it usually makes them feel alienated-- men are very poor at concealing emotions from women, especially the women they are in relationships with. go ahead, say it ain't so, but women have been analyzing the minutiae of men's emotions for millenia, and they're several laps ahead of the man in the relationship most of the time. to recapitulate this point in another way: women are going to know your emotions better than you do much of the time. trying to hide emotions from your woman only works if your woman is mostly checked out of the relationship, at which point you have nothing to hide from anyway.

in conclusion: confide in your woman, because she sees it on your face anyway and hiding makes you look weak. don't pansy around with the "too cool to be emotional" driftwood, it's unbecoming for anyone out of high school.

PissedPajamas · 2016-05-10T17:20:29+00:00

My mom's the only woman who's shown sympathy to my problems, she's a special breed of snowflake in that regard thanks to her extremely conservative upbringing in Cuba. My father never cared much for my problems and my sister is the common AWALT, to the point that she'll ruin my chances with another girl just because she's seen me at my worst and lacks respect.

Any other woman? I'm a perfect man whose never broken a sweat.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2016-05-10T20:24:23+00:00

Face struggle, face vulnerability if you will, but be damn sure to show her you have the situation under control, even if controlling the situation entitles getting rid of her.

GainzdalfTheWhey · 2016-05-10T20:33:09+00:00

I don't know, I broke up with my gf, she didn't use any ammo, and said she loves me and will get back together whenever I want.

hbPUA · 2016-05-10T21:44:53+00:00

Thanks for the reminder. The girl I'm seeing ~~is rather sweet~~ and I've shared some dreams which probably will come back to bite me. As it takes time to realize them. With the obvious remarks of any small error that might happen.

Now and them I've been thinking of dating some girls from them gym that show interest but reading the comments I would be fucking stupid to shit where I eat.

It's summertime and plenty of girls to chat up in the city. Just got a number from a russian student talking with her for five minutes.

Lesson learned:

Rule 1: Be attractive.
Rule 2: Don't be unattractive.
Lay the five bricks.
Don't shit where you eat.

StraightGlueWater · 2016-05-11T06:26:18+00:00

Women don't see potential in their mates. They see what you are in the moment, not what you are striving to become.

They don't want to help you build your empire- they want someone who already has theirs.

Roshambo_USMC · 2016-05-11T07:07:57+00:00

This is definitely awalt. I was married to the most patriotic country girl. The moment I sought counseling and depression meds to curb my PTSD/depression and memories from overseas when I finally opened up, it was a game changer that ultimately snowballed the relationship to oblivion. There are no exceptions to this rule.

After she left and I took the pill and lifted myself up, by myself and close male family members, my life finally improved again. The night she abruptly left, my heavy drinking screeched to a halt, I threw out my several medications and haven't been this happy in a very long time. Not mentioning my past to plates keeps me at a high score that will only plummet if I ever bring it up again.

Again, there are no exceptions to this rule. It is relationship seppuku to even hint at any vulnerability to a female, regardless of circumstances. And yes, the most hateful shit I ever heard in my life came out of her mouth when things were tanking. It truly is ammo you're handing her that she will pocket to only harm you with. She will use it beforehand while things are okay to curry favor/sympathy with other people in your circle, and act like she is bending over backwards dealing with you/trying to help you through it; the moment she's gotten that favor/sympathy she knows it has run its course and it only has one final purpose.

mustard5 · 2016-05-11T00:33:05+00:00

Opening up about my struggles at University to my first wife was the death knell of our marriage. She used to nag me all the time about 'no man is an island' and 'I wish you would share your problems with me'. I didn't like to share my problems. I figured I would get them sorted out. So one day I decide I'm going to go with this idea of vulnerability. I share my struggles with certain parts of the course at University. Straight away she turns around to me and says, 'I should have known I couldn't rely on you'.

Fuck me. I learned my lesson that day.

Snivellious · 2016-05-11T02:06:09+00:00

My usual feeling is that struggles can only be shown if they're spun as positives. You might have been able to get lots of warm, happy emotions from telling her about how you're "thinking about a startup on the side" and going from there. Similarly, grief plays fine as long as it makes you deep instead of weak. There's nothing wrong with admitting that you want change, but it can't come with the implicit admission that things are bad now. Only with the suggestion that you have even bigger dreams and appetites for the future.

As an aside: No More Mr. Nice Guy suggests that men in LTRs open up their partners about what they're doing to become more assertive, including specifically discussing the book and the exercises they're doing from it.

I've never believed that this is good advice for the average man - there are testimonials from men who had it work, but I'd lay money that there are also men who lost relationships that would have worked if they'd changed without discussion. It's just too close to admitting that your assertiveness will be fake.

sobieski84 · 2016-05-11T05:53:18+00:00

I lost my lower right leg in a mcycle accident and wear a prosthetic blade. Its only made me a stronger person and i have never bitched about it.

Women now literally theow themselves at me. And its not because of pity. But because i overcame a major obstacle easily

TRPtruth · 2016-05-11T06:05:04+00:00

Even better than the bros, hire a therapist. They are paid to listen and a good one will help you get to the core of your struggle or problems. Shrinks aren't just for looney tunes and bitches, they can help you sort life out without emotion and without the bullshit.

Niko_Choski · 2016-05-11T11:36:13+00:00

A woman may only fall in love with the image of what she believes you to be. Never with the actual man. There will never be an option for what the mgtow terms male mother need. It's all about what you represent to her and not who you are. Who you are is reserved for you and your few close male friends. No woman would ever care for who you are.

MoneyStatusLooks · 2016-05-11T16:30:32+00:00

The only time I talk about struggle, is when I talk about the past and how I dominated it and conquered shit to become a success. No woman wants to support you, they need the opposite. You need to be a rock and never cry for help.

williamwilliam2 · 2016-05-10T17:32:44+00:00

This is so true. Best coping method is to have something on the side.

dianaballer · 2016-05-10T21:44:58+00:00

I have to disagree 100%. It's a sick puppy mentality for women. I'd make up some fake trauma that happened to me when I was young (abusive father or something), talk about how I never got over it. And then I'll seem fixed afterwards. Emotional bonding and all that.

I'd probably not use an ex girlfriend or emotional emptiness. Preferably something rooted in fact but exaggerated. Also preferably while still in the honeymoon period, not on the first date as well.

iluminatiNYC · 2016-05-10T22:47:43+00:00

Needed this reminder. I made the mistake of being open about my life issues to women I wasn't fucking, thinking that they wouldn't ruin my situation with the women I was fucking. Nope. They flipped up and pulled a Linda Tripp on me, changed the story around, then ran and told the women I was with about what I said about them. Typical women.

ElGuapoMiguel · 2016-05-10T23:13:51+00:00

I wonder if this would be a good way to drop a plate, gf, or ltr gone bad?

InspireAndAdmire · 2016-05-11T04:15:37+00:00

That's where I started fucking up. I've been opening up my flaws and weakness to women. I've been single for the first time in my life now for a year (I'm not counting the relationships I got in that lasted a month or two) after breaking up with my ex of 3 years.

I'm going wrong with females. I'm not as confident as I once were. Dam. Females are the Devils lol.

mojo_juju · 2016-05-11T09:19:10+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Asmodeus04 · 2016-05-11T00:39:26+00:00

This might possibly be the most pathetic I've ever read.

It's a perverse, self-fulfilling prophecy. The fact that you can't see outside of the bubble you've built around yourself is... Inane.

alpha-secretase · 2016-05-11T00:44:51+00:00

This also applies for men. Never share your struggle with men. They will use your vulnerabilities against you in an attempt to hurt you.

pfffft_comeon · 2016-05-11T02:26:47+00:00

anger is the only socially acceptable emotion from men when dealing with struggles. maybe because anger sparks action towards resolution. men do things - there's no room for a man who doesn't do things. idk, but i know showing anger judiciously and within reason is fine.

Boovs4life · 2016-05-11T05:15:25+00:00

How is being an engineer holding back your SMV? Is engineering considered a BP career? Actually wondering not trying to sound rude.

Luckyluke23 · 2016-05-11T05:17:25+00:00

You will hear people say "Be Vulnerable" this does not mean open up and show a women your soft side. Being vulnerable to the RedPill means taking chances and facing rejection and turmoil

thanks for this, really hit some lightbulbs there...

ELLEN_POO · 2016-05-11T10:09:34+00:00

What if it's a really ugly chick? Or your mom or aunt or something?

Throwmeapill7 · 2016-05-12T11:29:18+00:00

Or beta men; they'll throw you under the bus with that info when there's a woman involved that you both like

do_it_or_leave · 2016-05-12T14:09:03+00:00

Your story matches mine on so many points I had to check your username to be sure I didnt write it.

DoxasticPoo · 2016-06-02T04:48:23+00:00

"Be Vulnerable" really means "Do things, express things and open up in ways that would make OTHER people sensitive, shy and scared, but do it anyway, with confidence, because you know deep down it won't phaze you, because you're too strong to really be vulnerable"

If you are ever ACTUALLY vulnerable, you'll be met with disgust. The only women who might not be disgusted by your true vulnerability is a woman who will NEVER be sexually attracted to you.

cumdumpster_Ruto · 2016-05-11T12:57:52+00:00

I feel like you can discuss your struggles without coming off like a little bitch.

superangelo64 · 2016-05-11T02:54:34+00:00

This is pretty difficult sometimes when you're dealing with a 8 or 9 that's never struggled or worked a day in their life and had everything thrown at them for being hot. Sometimes you just wanna say "Bitch, you can't even fathom what hard work is!" but you gotta lock it up.

ggpurehope · 2016-05-11T12:24:22+00:00

This is exactly how it happens. I had this girl who was 5/10 and I thought I will lover my standard to give a last chance to see if there is love. I was aware of red pill but still tried once more. Everything was ok and right, she was doing tons of shit for me in bed, but as soon as I started telling her about my own things, she changed the view of me in one day. One day bro. Day before she was seeing me in her future, next day she said she doesn't know what she was doing at my place. Bitch be trippin, they are all the same today, 3, 5 or 10, same shit.

IsaiahChapter11 · 2016-05-10T23:46:40+00:00

Did it ever occur to you that you were just with the wrong girl and she doesn't speak for the majority of women? I would Never, ever stray from a man who opened up to me. I'd be grateful that he expressed his frustrations and I'd treat him with love and compassion. I don't think I'd be in a position to give advice but I'd certainly listen and help in any way I could. You just need a supportive, caring partner. Please don't close yourself off. I completely understand why you would but keep the door open, even if it's just a tiny crack.

ChekkM8 · 2016-05-10T22:10:25+00:00

Itt: cucks are mad because they are too emotional for women and dont know how to find solutions to their problems other than bitching

dpiper125 · 2016-05-11T18:39:39+00:00

IT'S FINE IF THEY ARE YOUR PLATONIC FEMALE FRIENDS!

redditvivus · 2016-05-10T19:00:36+00:00

"Two weeks later she is fucking some hippy bartender."

Thanks, bro, for the LOL I needed!

Catdick66 · 2016-05-10T17:26:19+00:00

TL:DR You became boring, depressed, and probably whined like a lil bitch boy and she fucked off.

Wow, much insight.

Title	Do Not Open Up to Women About Your Struggle
Author	mackstarmagic
Upvotes	719
Comments	252
Date	May 10, 2016 4:08 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/4ipxv6/do_not_open_up_to_women_about_your_struggle/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/do-not-open-up-to-women-about-your-struggle.39415 https://theredarchive.com/post/39415

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