The most important part of game is not being emotionally invested

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April 10, 2017

I hate it when people try to oversimplify pick-up, but if I had to boil down pick up into one principle every man should understand, it is this: The woman must be more emotionally invested in you than you are in her at every stage of the relationship. I call this the IRON LAW OF SEDUCTION.

Understanding and correctly applying this law will solve 99% of the problems men have with women. She’s not responsive to your advances? Not emotionally invested enough. Not returning your calls? Not emotionally invested enough. Flaking? Not emotionally invested enough. On the flipside, as a man, if you emotionally divest yourself from girls, you solve most your own problems. Outcome dependent? You are too emotionally invested in getting laid. Approach anxiety? You are too emotionally invested in the success of the interaction. Neediness and desperation? You are emotionally invested in getting girls. Suck at conversations? You are too emotionally invested in getting laid and can’t just have a regular conversation.

Emotional investment is subconsciously communicated and women evolved to sense it. One guy can talk to a girl all night without her feeling like he is emotionally invested, but another can talk to her for 2 seconds and get auto-rejected for being too invested. Of course, a woman may talk to you, hang out with you, fuck you, or even date you for a long time if she’s not emotionally invested because she’s horny, crazy, lonely, desperate, drunk, bored, want something from you, etc.... But if she’s not emotionally invested, you are on thin ice and vulnerable at any time to flaking or going cold.

What is emotional investment?

Emotional investment is occupying one’s thoughts and emotions. It is not the same as being interested or “liking” somebody. I “like” a lot of people but I don’t “feel” anything for them and it wouldn’t hurt my feelings if they rejected me or even died. This distinction is why women flake. Women “like,” get “interested,” and give their numbers to lots of guys, but if she is not at least a little emotionally invested she will not be motivated to get out of bed, put on her make-up, and come somewhere to meet you. Unlike men, women get invited to shit all the time by guys they “like” so they are not going to care about meeting you unless there is some emotional investment.

Think about emotional investment like this: like most men, you probably like Lamborghinis. But like most men, you probably don’t have one, and you probably don’t spend all day thinking about Lamborghinis and being sad because you don’t have one. But if I lent you a Lamborghini for two months and you drove it around, took care of it, showed it off to your friends, and got laid because of it, you would be sad when I take it back. It’s irrational, but you would get emotionally invested in the Lambo even if you weren’t sad when you never had one. Because you became attached to it and it gave you a sense of identity and power, the Lambo took up space in your thoughts and emotions, making you emotionally invested.

Emotional investment in people is similar. Being around somebody awesome and feeling like they “belong” to you becomes addictive like crack. An awesome man makes a woman feel special, loved, important, powerful, and cool. An awesome man is also fun, positive, confident, carefree, and dominant, easing the woman’s anxieties and insecurities. Being around an awesome guy is literally like a drug to women, and if they are around you long enough, they become hooked.

The Ben Franklin Theory

Ben Franklin, one of America’s founding fathers and greatest poonhounds, famously and counterintuitively discovered that if person A does something for person B, person A will like person B more. Most people would assume the opposite – if you want people to like you, you should do things for them, so person B should like person B more! Right? Wrong!

Person A “likes” person B more because person A has become emotionally invested. Maybe person A subconsciously expects person B to do something nice back. Maybe person A subconsciously see themselves as “beneath” person B in the ape hierarchy. Maybe person A is protecting their own ego – person B must be somebody special if even I did something for them! Or maybe the simple act of doing something for person B caused person B to enter person A’s thoughts and emotions.

Whatever the psychological mechanism, when a woman really likes you, she will WANT to do stuff for you, sometimes even aggressively, and she will WANT to emotionally invest while you fantasize about other things. When a woman really likes you is when you realize that needy, supplicating, validating behavior is not necessary. I have friends that are strippers, and their job is basically to hustle men out of money and to trick guys into buying shit for them. I don’t buy girls things, ever, (and I never, ever visit my friends at work) and I notice that when these strippers start to like me they buy me shit, clean my house, do me favors, etc... One night I even got into an argument with a stripper because she bought me 5 drinks in a row and she wouldn’t let me buy her a drink in return. That’s emotional investment.

The Woujo Theory

According to my corollary of the Franklin theory, supplicating to a woman, validating yourself to a woman, buying a woman things, following a woman around, allowing a woman to treat you like shit, and spending too much time trying to “help” a woman who doesn’t deserve it subconsciously will cause you to become emotionally invested in her and feel “beneath” her.

Sometimes guys will do loserish things, like let a girl treat them badly or repeatedly pursue a girl who doesn’t care about them, and justify it by saying “I don’t really care about her, I just want to fuck.” This is a bad idea, because even though you consciously think you “don’t give a fuck,” by pursuing her, you become emotionally invested, and by allowing her treat you like shit, you subconsciously re-wire your brain to feel like a beta male. Even if you didn't give a fuck before, now you do.

You can’t control how you feel, but you can control what you do. Where your actions go, your feelings will follow, and where feelings go, your thoughts will follow. If you do loser things, you will eventually feel like a loser, even if you consciously tell yourself you “don’t give a fuck.” If a hot girl tries to strike a Faustian bargain with you and let you fuck her in return for treating you like shit, you must reject that deal out of respect for your own mental health.

Your brain works by making connections, and when you focus your thoughts and emotions on something, your brain starts connecting that thing to other things in your brain, and that thing becomes “enmeshed” in your wiring, creating a deeper web that is hard to untangle. For example, if you date a really hot girl, your brain will start to associate her with sexual pleasure, or ego, or fun times, and other things you like, so when she dumps you, you will think of her constantly.

The definition of “not giving a fuck” is only keeping positive thoughts and emotions in your head, and cutting out people, places, activities, thoughts, media, etc... that are negative. “Not giving a fuck” is not about being cold, aloof, an asshole, or stupid, but by filing your thoughts and emotions only with positive things that deserve to be there.

Why is emotional investment unattractive?

Emotional investment is an immediate turn-off. It doesn’t matter why, but I can guess some reasons.

First, emotional investment is unattractive because people are attracted to lives that are more interesting, exciting, higher, and better than our own. We just assume that somebody living a better life than us is going to be thinking and feeling about their awesome life, not us. If a woman knows she occupies your thoughts and emotions, she will assume your life sucks. She wants to fixate her thoughts and emotions on something higher, but if your thoughts and emotions are fixated on her, she’s back where she started.

For example, a girl that plays soccer will be attracted to guys that are better at soccer than her because they will appeal to the part of her thoughts and emotions that are invested in soccer. I'm not saying she will never become emotionally invested in a guy who is worse at soccer than she is - she may invest in a guy for other reasons - but the guy is playing with a disadvantage.

Second, emotional investment is unattractive because, simply put, emotions are bad and scary. Our society acts like “love” is an emotion and “our true selves” are our emotions, but that’s bullshit. Our value lies in what we can do when we are rational, what we’ve learned in our life, what we know how to do, and what we strive to achieve and be when we are clear-headed. Emotions are temporary and fleeting; but true love is a rational, credible commitment to your beloved’s well-being. In his dialogue the Phaedrus, the Greek philosopher Plato said that emotional love is a kind of madness – when things are going well, you are irrationally nice to the person out of proportion to what they deserve. When things are going badly, you are irrationally nasty to the person out of proportion to what they deserve. Women know that when you are irrationally nice to them you will eventually be irrationally shitty.

Most of our emotions are selfish, irrational, unrealistic, uncontrollable, and oftentimes downright evil. Emotions are fundamentally needy: they always want something, even if the “want” is to help somebody. If you see a beautiful woman and think “I like her, and I want to make her happy and do nice things for her,” you’re lying to yourself. You want things FROM her. You want to fuck her, use her for an ego boost, have your friends see you with her, and make yourself feel better for being a “good person.” You don’t want to see her run off and be happy with another guy, you want her to be unhappy with you. When you show emotion women subconsciously know you want something and that puts pressure on them, and they run away. Women sometimes will hang out with guys they don’t like or aren’t attracted to in any way, just because those guys are not emotionally invested and are not putting any pressure on them.

When you become extremely emotional, you fantasize about getting your beloved back or hurting them for the wrongs they did to you, you stalk them, you act weird, you feel depressed, you can’t function, etc… Love songs glorify these feelings, but these are not healthy feelings. They are signs of weakness. Women have these feelings things too (oftentimes much more deeply than men), and they know it’s a scary pit to be in, so if they sense for even a second that a man is feeling these things (or is even just slightly beginning to feel these things), they run away immediately. Women want an emotional rock. They want the lifeguard on the edge of the pool pulling them out, not somebody drowning with them.

Women also take longer to get emotionally invested in men than men take to get emotionally invested in women. Men evolved to seek “fertile” women (big ass, big tits, healthy face) to impregnate as soon as possible. Women, on the other hand, evolved to find the strongest man in the tribe that could protect her and her baby, so they seek a larger group of traits, many of which are long-term traits (confidence, dominance, emotional stability, intelligence, etc…). It takes a woman time to figure out if a guy has these traits but a man can immediately be attracted to a hot girl. In every man-woman relationship there is a period of time where the man is emotionally invested, but the woman is still “rational” and feeling the guy out. Many men fuck it up here – they start acting creepy, or weird, overly nice, overly fixated, and the woman, who feels nothing, thinks the guy isweird or worse.

Of course, emotions are a part of life and can be beautiful if channeled correctly. But you shouldn’t show your emotions to a woman until she has also developed those emotions.

Third, emotional investment makes you stupid and saps you of your vitality and awesomeness. Tons interesting, smart, funny, cool, successful guys become vacant shells of their normal selves around women, partly because their thoughts and emotions are empty of everything that makes them awesome. If you are deep in a game of chess and I try to have a conversation with you about quantum physics you will sound stupid because your thoughts and emotions are full of chess. Seduction requires intelligence and creativity, but if your thoughts and emotions are just “durr, she’s a pretty woman” you’re going to fail. Because women are “rational” longer than men, they want to have rational, intelligent conversations about interesting shit.

Another reason is power. It’s a sad fact of life, but humans are wired to look at relationships in power terms. We subconsciously rank everybody in a particular social situation from least to most powerful. Women are much more aware of the power dynamic because they are generally less powerful than men. And unfortunately, we subconsciously see emotional people as lower in the power hierarchy. The German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche said, correctly in my opinion, that individuals higher in the social hierarchy do not feel emotions for people lower than them. The lower ranked apes evolved to obey and be obsessed with the alpha male because they need his protection and resources, but the alpha male feels nothing for the lower ranked apes because he does not need them for anything.

Most importantly, women are not attracted to emotionally invested men because women are attracted to RESILIENCE. Resilience here means “the ability to confidently pursue your goals and not let anything or anybody perturb you.”

Women are attracted to resilience because they naturally want a protector, and a protector’s commitment is only credible if he cannot be thrown off of his mission, whatever that mission is. If a protector becomes emotional, dishonest, distracted, or submissive, he can no longer be trusted to protect. We subconsciously see emotional people as weak because they can be easily controlled. If a guy is emotional about a girl, he is likely to agree with whatever she says, let her get away with bad behavior, etc…

If a protector wavers for even a second, the woman becomes anxious and fearful, but a confident man with boundaries is not scared and cannot be thrown off of his mission. You must be a brick wall that cannot be moved or affected: if you approach her or escalate with her, it is purely based on your own desire, not her cajoling. At every moment you should think to yourself “am I doing this because I want to or because I am trying to impress her”? Sometimes you need to monitor her emotional investment on a moment-by-moment basis.

Subconscious communication

Women can quickly sense by your body language, words, demeanor, tone of voice and actions whether you are emotionally invested. Neither you nor her may consciously know you’re invested, but you will just “feel” unattractive to her. Sometimes very subtle changes in behavior (staring too long, asking a question that is too intrusive too early) can tip off that you are too invested.

I use the “gravity theory” to gauge emotional investment. In social settings, high-value people are “bigger” and therefore “draw” lower-value people to them. If you look at any party, you will see hot girls usually in the center, relaxing and having fun, and guys literally surrounding them like planets around the sun. There is a reason these guys are called “orbiters.” If the girl gets up to leave, the guys may play it cool for a while, but they then get up to follow her. Your ultimate goal is to become the center of gravity so women are drawn to you, not vice versa, which is hard, because as a man you must approach. But even if you approach your demeanor and body language can exude the message of “I am the center of gravity, and I create a rip in space-time that compels you to come to me.”

The subconscious subtext of an interaction is 99%. For example, the sentence “can I buy you a drink” can have a wide range of subconscious meanings depending on the tone, body language, context and emotion I deliver them in. “Can I buy you a drink” can mean “I want to fuck you,” “I feel like I owe you something and I want to pay you back,” “I’m a generous guy and I like to just people free things,” “you’re a good friend, and I want to show my appreciation,” “I’m a loser and I want to make you like me by buying you things,” etc… What matters is not your superficial words, but your subconscious context.

Because seduction is mostly subconscious, I can’t teach you every detail of the walk, speaking style, body language, demeanor, etc… of a guy who is not emotionally invested. Even if I did, it’s too much for you to remember and process. I even doubted the efficacy of writing this article because it’s incredibly hard to “fake” an emotional state for a long period of time and most people will go back to behaving like what they feel they are.

The paradox of escalation

So far it sounds like the right solution to get girls would be to just ignore them completely. You won’t look emotionally invested, right? Unfortunately, that doesn’t work. It is the man’s responsibility to approach and escalate because women do not get emotionally invested quickly and are afraid of rejection.

To get a girl attracted to you, you must show at least some initial interest and escalate, luring her into becoming emotionally invested in you. Magicians use a technique called “forcing,” where they trick the person into thinking they are picking a random card out of the deck when the person is really picking the card the magician wanted them to pick. Seduction is similar: she should feel like she is picking you, not vice-versa. You are just opening the door to her.

The challenge of seduction

Seducing a woman while you appear not emotionally invested is incredibly challenging. First, women’s aversion to emotional investment is mostly subconscious – consciously, women want the guy to show at least some interest. And it’s naturally hard to hang around a woman you like for a long period of time and not become invested to at least some degree. Beautiful women create a reality distortion field where men lose all concept of rationality, truth, normal standards of right and wrong, etc… You can say “you’re overthinking this, just be yourself,”, but women touch men’s strongest emotion, so many men literally forget how be themselves. When a beautiful woman walks into a nightclub a swarm of otherwise successful, rational, manly men immediately lose their fucking minds. They start begging for her approval, trying to buy her things, acting stupid, etc…

And like I said earlier, men emotionally invest quicker than women, so we must be patient because our emotions push us to jump the gun and get right into lovey-dovey mode. And in non-romantic contexts, people become emotionally invested at the same rate, so you are used to the other person feeling the same as you if the interaction is going well. And when we feel emotionally invested in somebody, we naturally are going to want to elicit a positive emotional response. But trying to make a woman happy that is not emotionally invested comes off as validation-seeking, supplicating, bitch behavior. You must instead do what is RIGHT. A woman may seem cold, and we may think we can “warm her up” by being “nice” to her, but we should really just pursue our mission and have faith that she will emotionally invest even though she appears on the surface to not be attracted or care about you. Remember: women are constantly sizing you up, so even if they don’t look like they are attracted or paying attention, they are.

Seduction is a gamble because you must have faith that eventually the woman will start to emotionally invest, knowing she might not. Sometimes she just won’t like you. Sometimes she just wants attention. Sometimes she is in love with you but won’t let it on. Some women are damaged and never emotionally invest in anybody – they see all men as objects to be used. This is why you must assume attraction – because you DON’T KNOW.

How to not be emotionally invested

If you take away one thing from this article, it is this: a woman who is not yet invested in you must not occupy a big part of your thoughts and emotions. You must have your mind and heart on other things when interacting with women. Period. If she hasn’t made room for you in her head and heart yet, you shouldn’t make space for her in your head and heart. If you make this change right now, I promise your results will instantly improve. Women are the dessert to a good life, not the main course, and that’s how women should feel when you are talking to them. WOMEN WANT TO BE DESSERT.

Here are my main steps to not becoming emotionally invested:

1) Realize you don’t need to emotionally invest

2) Have an interesting and awesome life that occupies your thoughts and emotions.

3) Have “abundance mentality” with respect to women.

4) Have boundaries and be unperturbable.

5) Focus on your own fun first.

Realize you don’t need to emotionally invest

This may be the most important step. I think a lot of guys emotionally invest in girls because society and pop culture subconsciously make us think that for a man to get a girl, he must supplicate to her and emotionally invest in her. In the movies, the confident, successful guy living his own life never gets the girl; instead the winner is the beta loser who falls in love with her from afar, and then spends the rest of the movie trying to “get” her, enduring multiple rejections and humiliations. These movies also teach that women are delicate flowers that need constant coddling and lovey dovey bullshit. That’s not how it works in the real world.

Men also misunderstand women’s aversion to rejection. Women have a strong need to be “accepted” (as all betas do) and therefore are much more sensitive to rejection than men. The phrase “hell hath no fury like a woman scorned” is true. Dread game and “ignoring” women only works if she is ignoring you first. But if you outright reject her, or if she makes a move on you, or asks for acceptance, and you say “no” or she feels like you are ignoring her there is a strong chance she will emotionally “un-invest.” Because women have this strong need for constant acceptance and validation, men mistakenly think they must emotionally invest. But all you really need to do is not reject her or make her feel excluded. It’s a thin line between keeping a woman “accepted” and emotionally investing in her.

To win this game, you should only do something for a woman if the woman would do it for you. If you want to buy her a drink, think about whether she would buy you a drink. If she wouldn’t, don’t. If she wants you to wait for her, think about whether she would wait for you. If she wouldn’t, don’t. If there is a girl you always say hi to, but she never says hi to you, stop saying hi to her. She knows who you are, she can say hi to you. It’s ok to “win” in relationships.

Again, this is easier said than done. Society and your emotions team up to make you feel like you need to follow girls around, wait for them, put up with their bullshit, buy them drinks, etc… You must fight your feelingss and social training and have faith that if you stay the course women will become attracted. This requires the ability to say “no” to a woman (saying “no” is different than rejecting her) and the ability to walk away from her, even permanently.

Have an interesting and awesome life that occupies your thoughts and emotions

Humans are wired to seek good feelings. If the main part of our life is not making us happy (job, school, our hobbies), we get those good feelings from other sources: drugs, trashy TV, women, food, etc… All those things are not bad by themselves, but if your regular life doesn’t make you happy, you will overly emotionally invest in bad things and become addicted and depressed. If your life is miserable, you will subconsciously and unknowingly immediately start overly investing in women.

I use the “cheese pizza method.” Whenever I feel like I’m getting too emotional, I fill my thoughts and emotions with something I love – cheese pizza, Oreo cheesecake, the day I did mushrooms at the beach, reading about dinosaurs stoned, etc... This clears my head and allows me to act “normal” around women. When I am thinking about doing something for a girl I ask myself “what has she done to dislodge cheese pizza out of my heart and mind?” You can replace cheese pizza with anything, ideally an incredible, thrilling life that she would want to join.

Have abundance mentality with respect to girls

No matter how awesome your life is, it is hard to not emotionally invest in girls. Abundance mentality is when your thoughts and emotions are full of other women, so you don’t need this one girl. If you don’t have other girls, you need to delude yourself. I recall times when I did have abundance and put myself back in that mental space. If you’ve never had abundance, imagine you are Brad Pitt or some other celebrity and think about how he would feel and act.

Have boundaries and be unperturbable

Women want you to be an immovable wall that confidently and joyfully pursues his mission. She will try to perturb you from that mission, not because she wants to see you fail, but because she wants to test whether you are actually a brick wall or a façade for something softer. The same way you knock on a desk at the furniture store to see if it is real wood, a woman shit tests you to see if you are actually confident enough to pursue your mission or if you will be perturbed. And the more confident and immovable you are, the stronger the shit tests become. This is true even if the mission is getting her! As long as she is into it, you need to escalate as if you already know she will say yes.

Your mission, when out, should be maximum fun. She should sense that your emotional investment is “where’s the party? Where’s the next fun thing?” You should have a plan for the entire night: I’m going to X, then I’m going to Y , etc… You should not let the woman hijack your plans and take the lead. Your primary mission (career, hobbies, etc…) should also be in your head. Remember the song “girls just wanna have fun?” In truth, everybody just wants to have fun but boys are wracked with anxiety because they are trying to impress girls. Whenever you are feeling nervous, scared, anxious or like you are emotionally investing too much in a girl, just say to yourself “I’m here to have fun. If you contribute, great. If not, you are dismissed.” Fun and positivity always win.

Example: If a beautiful woman is talking about something incredibly boring most men pretend to be interested. Wrong! Women know when they are being boring and it is sometimes a subtle shit test to see if you will let her get away with it. Women are not desperate for sex and they do not need to hang around if a guy is being boring, stupid or mean, and they cannot respect or empathize with a guy who would put up with bullshit from her. Men let women be boring when they lose their vision of the good life. A good life involves beautiful women, but it also involves interesting conversations. If you aren’t getting interesting conversations from her, you would leave because you have options. Whenever a woman is being boring, I change the subject just to let her know I don’t tolerate bullshit.

By having a vision of the good life, boundaries, and confidence that your life, thoughts and emotions are interesting and valuable, you can challenge and stimulate a woman. Women want a man that will help them grow and introduce them to a better life and more interesting world than the one they currently inhabit. They don’t want some a that agrees with everything they say, a pushover, or a simple-minded conformist. Women want a guy who is willing to walk away at any time, not because he is some cold-hearted psychopath, but because once a man shows that is he NOT willing to walk away at any time, there is no challenge or growth.

Of course, for most of you, this is very difficult. Many of you have uninteresting lives so a beautiful woman would instantly become the most interesting and important thing your life or you are so sex starved and desperate that you don’t care if a woman is being boring, or mean, or uninterested, or whatever.

Focus on your own fun first

Imagine you paid $500,000 to spend a week with Leonardo DiCaprio (or whatever celebrity you think lives an awesome life) and when you get there Leonardo says “tell us what we should do?” You would say “I don’t know, what are the options?” and Leo goes “I don’t have anything planned – let’s just do what you were gonna do.” You would be pissed! You want to become part of Leo’s awesome life, not make your own plan. That’s how girls feel when men don’t have a plan. They want to join your life, not lead you around in their life. That’s why you need to focus on your own fun first. You may like you are being rude or selfish, but you’re not, because women are more attracted to the act of leading than the destination necessarily.

How to make her emotionally invest in you

For a woman to emotionally invest in you, certain shit must happen:

1) She must “like” you – i.e., she must find you pleasant, friendly, good-looking, compatible with her values and interests.

2) She must feel an emotional connection with you.

3) She must feel accepted by you. If she you are rejecting her, ignoring her, or being hostile, she will not emotionally invest.

4) She must watch you be confident and resilient.

5) She needs to spend time around you.

She must like you

This one is self-explanatory. Women are usually not going to invest in you if you don’t share their interests, values, goals, etc… Some girls want a rapper covered in tattoos, others want a nerdy guy who watches Star Wars. If you’re a versatile guy with lots of interests, a lot more women will like you, but some people just aren’t compatible.

She must feel an emotional connection with you

The key to developing an emotional connection with a girl is experiencing emotionally exciting things together. The ultimate is of course, passionate sex, but a good concert, a deep conversation, even a beer pong game you guys play together can help build an emotional connection.

Another way to build an emotional connection is for her to vicariously experience your confidence. She wants you to be her emotional rock, so she would like to project her insecurities and fears onto you, and watch you brush them off as if they were nothing. She also wants to watch you take the lead and make the night fun.

A woman has emotional energy, and that energy must be directed towards something or somebody. You want that energy to be directed to you. The easiest way to do this is just by spending time around her. Just “being around” will help build attraction as long as you are not fucking it up by being needy or making her feel bad. The best way to get women to like you is to be “forced” to be around them, such as work or a group hangout, where you do not supplicate to them or validate yourself to them. My friend used to take girls out on his boat, and these girls would usually end up liking me by the end of the day because we would have spent all day together. Celebrities get so much tang because women watch them in movies or listen to their music and become emotionally invested, whereas the celebrity shows the women no emotional investment in all.

She must feel accepted by you.

Again, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, so it must feel like the door to you is open. As she invests in you more, you must escalate more. You can fuck this up by being an asshole, not being sensitive to her emotions, and not reading her advances correctly.

She must watch you confidently pursue your goals

The word confidence comes from the Latin con (with) + fidens (faith). A man with confidence has faith that he will succeed in whatever he does and cannot be stopped by anybody. Women get turned by watching a man confidently pursue his mission. Why are women w so attracted to DJs, promoters, and drug dealers in the club? Those guys aren’t exactly the “cream” of society. It’s because those guys are the only people at the club actually doing something. All the other guys are just sitting there drooling over the girls, instantly reducing their attractiveness.

Putting it all together

To apply all this knowledge, my strategy is to adopt a rational, almost businesslike demeanor, at least in the early stages of the interaction. As I said earlier, women are “rational” at the beginning before they are emotionally invested, so you should also be rational. A man must act almost like he is a woman: he is interested in a relationship (or maybe even just sex) but he has high standards and must evaluate the woman thoroughly first and make sure she is suitable before he gets emotionally invested. You should act like your actions are guided by a seduction computer that makes all the decisions based on the available information, not your emotions.

One technique is called “disinterested interest.” Your rational words should show interest and enthusiasm but you must communicate the “emotion” of “I’m just talking to you to be nice, I am not totally emotionally invested in you yet and I could walk away at any moment.” The best way to do this is by keeping your thoughts and emotions focused on something else, other than her.

You should not, however, stay completely rational. You must allow yourself to show your emotions about things that are not her: your passions, your interests, your friends, etc… And you can show emotion towards her if she deserves it: laugh if she says something funny, thank her if she does something nice, sympathize with her if she says something sad: just don’t let on that you feel emotional about “her” unconnected to anything she is or has done.

And of course, escalate sexually. Paradoxically, it is possible to escalate sexually and not appear emotionally invested. In fact, a lot of women (especially damaged ones) are looking for emotionless sex. You must touch her, you must turn the conversation sexual, you must do “seductive” things like look into her eyes and whisper in her ear, etc… And you must confidently take the lead in the conversation and the situation in general, leading her from place to place, getting intimate with her, etc… And when she starts to emotionally invest, make her feel like you MIGHT emotionally invest too (but not as much as her). Sometimes if you play it “too” cool she will think you just like her platonically or that you lost interest.

A broader view

This article is obviously about getting girls, but the principles are applicable in all areas of your life. Simply put, you should not invest your thoughts and emotions into people, places, institutions, and activities that do not give a fuck about you and/or do not produce a return that equals the investment you put into them. One of the biggest mistakes people make is investing too much in their job, friendship, hobbies, etc..., and getting 0 out of it.

Additionally, whatever you do becomes your emotional investment. If you spend every weekend hanging out with piece of shit people that just do drugs, complain and make bad decisions, guess what, you are now becoming a piece of shit person. You are what you do.

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Post Information
Title The most important part of game is not being emotionally invested
Author Woujo
Upvotes 2309
Comments 125
Date 10 April 2017 10:30 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
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[–]MEpicLevelCheater[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (1 child) | Copy

Pointing you for this submission, and stickying the post.

[–]aigamithite337 points338 points  (4 children) | Copy

This is the reason I read TheRedPill:

  1. Beautifully written with easy to follow sentences and examples
  2. No condescending tone; all the advice sounds like something a father would say to a son
  3. Extremely rational; none of this points appeals to emotions. Just pure, unadulterated rationality
  4. Exhaustive and on point

If an endorsed member reads this I hope he grants you a point; this is truly sidebar material.

Thank you for taking the time to write this and adding more value to my own (and everyone else's) day.

[–]SOwED46 points47 points  (2 children) | Copy

I would say this is the reason I stay subscribed to this subreddit.

Posts often rise to the top here that don't agree with your listed qualities of this post. A lot of times things are poorly written, have a tone of braggadocio, and aren't strictly rational.

But again, I stick around for posts like this one.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

everyone reading this, do your part. Report LOW EFFORT posts to the mods. downvote low quality posts. Upvote good quality posts.

We get a lot of noobs here, it's up to us regular readers to help the mods with the daunting task of separating the wheat from the chaff

[–]TheTittyBurglar0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yep, those other posts give TRP a bad rep around reddit (not like it matters that much), this type of reading is all legit and spot on, one would have to be so far up their own ass to think otherwise

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

No condescending tone; all the advice sounds like something a father would say to a son

"Alexander, ya dun goofed." - Aristotle

[–]BrownsFerryBlues82 points83 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women are the dessert to a good life, not the main course, and that’s how women should feel when you are talking to them. WOMEN WANT TO BE DESSERT.

I really needed to read this right now.

[–]Arminarmeen161 points162 points  (0 children) | Copy

This should be on the side-bar, somewhere at least.

[–]XZTALVENARNZEGOMSAYT135 points136 points  (1 child) | Copy

This post will save a lot of people.

Sidebar this shit mods

[–]Radinax5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would show this to my son if he asks me how to get girls, seriously the best trp post ive seen.

[–]TRPdis62 points63 points  (1 child) | Copy

Wow. I suspect I failed with a girl that I'm still seeing precisely because I let on very early that I was emotionally invested in her. She caught wind of that, hell I even outright said it over text. Wish I had read all of this right before I met her. This was very well put, maybe the best post I've read on TRP.

[–][deleted] 49 points50 points  (2 children) | Copy

You don’t want to see her run off and be happy with another guy, you want her unhappy with you.

Been there. Never again.

Part of Killing the BetaTM for me has been building a thriving life so a bitch won't dominate me. I climb rocks, do martial arts, dance, study, cook awesome food......and boring fitness stuff, too.

I'm in my mid 40's. I would be jealous of dudes learning this stuff in their 20's, but I don't have time for that shit.

Good piece. Will bookmark, as it's a bit longer than I had time for. OP's mention of Nietzsche (the first one if there's more than one) was spot on.

[–]EatmyShorts5915 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm in my mid 20's and I do everything you do.

I aspire to continue on this path well into my 40's !!!!

I admire your life, old man !

[–][deleted] 54 points55 points  (0 children) | Copy

Old man? Shit, I'm just getting started!

[–]1Sir_Distic65 points66 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is absolutely amazing. This is what we all need to hear. It's so true and many of us, myself includes as this post has helped me to realize, are too invested in a woman who isn't invested in us.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger58 points59 points  (2 children) | Copy

This post is worth going over a few times.

One additional thought I'd add is that The Red Pill, itself, tends to lead a lot of guys to invest too much.

Example: Your girlfriend's not fucking you enough or the way you want. You start to think about it a lot. You become obsessed with how your sex life is supposed to be and how wrong it is currently. You read all day about ways to try to fix it. You try things. You focus on whether those things work or not. You obsess some more about it.

You think you're doing the right thing by using The Red Pill to try to help yourself, but the very fact that you're so focused and obsessed with this thing to begin with is shooting yourself in the foot. It's part of the reason you're failing, and your obsession with fixing it is making it worse.

When guys read all of this gender-war and sexual-strategy-based stuff on the internet all day, they think about sex and women a lot, and they unconsciously start to invest time and thought into girls. It's good to read a post about how important it is to care less, not more.

The only real fix -- the only strategy that works 100% of the time, in every case, with all women -- is other women.

If you have abundance -- options -- then no one girl matters. And the second no individual girl matters, you don't care about her, and they all want you.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c20 points21 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think, for better or worse, for new guys first swallowing the pill, that becoming "invested" in all the RP stuff is part of the process. It's like something to hold onto while they're unplugging and having their world torn asunder.

There is kind of a second phase after that, when they've slept with a bunch of women or hit certain goals in life or the gym or whatever, maybe fucked one of the hottest girls they've been with but had her go cold, that they finally accept and internalize it. The moment when they finally fully swallow the Red Pill and let go. When they, as you adeptly point out, finally live in abundance.

It's hard to really see your options till you experience a taste of them. And then you still see AWALT and the same patterns, and come to accept that there is nowhere else to go, nothing you're missing ... it is simply making the most out of the world lying all around you.

[–]mktanalytics2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Absolutely brilliant. Can relate 100%. Always been semi-alpha my whole life (sports, worked out since I was 18, tall, etc.), but I first started reading TRP a few years ago around when I moved to LA. Lived in LA for 2 years, got a gf who was one of the hottest girls I've banged to date, dated her for a year, and then she dumped me 2 months ago. Now TRP really hits home and I can internalize it. This is the toughest pill to swallow yet - when you're not on top of that mountain, but have to re-build yourself back up once reality hits. Thank you so much.

[–][deleted] 46 points47 points  (1 child) | Copy

Mods, if you don't sidebar this you don't have a hair on your balls.

[–]GodandMyself13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

This post. THIS EFFING POST. I literally CRINGED probably 10x as I read it because it was like looking at a myself thru a damn scanning electron microscope and all the ridiculous things I have done with women my whole life to get them to date me. I've read probably almost every single post on TRP for almost a year now and this one hands down is one of the greats. It just wrecked me in absolutely the best way possible. Bravo to you Woujo. And to all you 18-25 year olds, seriously take this post to heart. It will save you so much needless pain and heartache and confusion and space occupied in your brain as your pining away about the "one that got away" and truly at best, she isn't thinking about you at all or at worst thinks you're super creepy. Read this post once a week. Let it CALIBRATE you before you have any interactions with women or really anybody. This has universal appeal as OP indicated in the last paragraph. You probably saved lives Woujo...for real.

[–]truthproprietor13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

During my days in middle school and high school I had about 10 girls in total crushing on me (I was tall and decent looking), half of them were attractive and 1 was really hot, the one thing they had in common was I never showed interest towards them, everytime I talked to them I was 100% relaxed and laughed at my own jokes, completely careless towards their opinions. Regarding the 1 really hot girl, I thought she hated me before her friends told me she liked me, because I'd just talk bullshit 10th grader nonsense with her everytime I saw her in spanish class "Gracias Senorita, how you doing? You look constipated today, toilet paper a bit rough?" She'd give me a playful-amused pretend-disgusted look and I would just laugh at her reaction while continuing to talk bullshit to make myself laugh.

I also developed crushes of my own on 3 girls at different times, these girls would make me blush and give me butterflies every time I talked to them, these were the ones I would borrow things from and "forget" to give back to find an excuse to talk again.

These 3 girls I liked were above-average looking at best, nothing special at all, but because I was so emotionally invested in them, none of them saw me as more than a friend.

From my experience, girls really like the DGAF attitude, its not something that can be faked, it comes naturally when I truly don't care.

[–]esirnus183 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

The Spanish class I couldn't help but imagine Hank Moody as you.

[–]brettfromtibet11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a great in depth guide to a simple principle of low emotional investment. As I improve my SMV more women become naturally interested. I am now getting a taste of abundance: meeting multiple new women on the semi/regular... instead of one every once in a while. Texting multiple women decrease my concern about outcome or how any particular woman reacts to my game - if our interactions are not smooth and flowing, NEXT! My emotional investment in any particular woman is lower, I'm more playful and authentic ... and my low key efforts generate more positive responsive than when I'm "trying" to make it work.

[–]Trooper_18686 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is the best post i have ever read on here.

An interesting theory i have on Abundance mentality tho.

Is it possible, to lets say not have plans set up in your night, but you know in your mind that you would rather do nothing by yourself (could be home reading a book, composing music, introvert stuff, even get a good night's sleep) than be a hanger on for someone else's plans? And you act on this in full contempt. I honestly think this is might help initially when you are transitioning to Abundance Ment.

[–]domoli6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

I think it's important to add that even in an LTR, when a girl has emotionally invested in you (and displayed it), it is still imperative to invest in a 2:3 ratio, yours to hers. Many of the symptoms of emotional investment listed here (clouding your vision, sapping your mental energy) are ubiquitous in LTRs. IMO, the woman in an LTR thrives off of this, and when she feels secure in your investment, she experiences the polar opposite of these symptoms--clear headed, determined, hypergamous.

[–]pspman3540 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What is the solution to this? Avoid LTRs? I feel it's impossible to not get emotionally invested, unless ur dating a super ugly chick.

[–]2931330 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sorry for being late, but in case you still wonder, it's not about not getting emotionally invested. It's just that you need to be a bit less invested than her. Like, if she thinks everything is awesome and hops around, you should just walk and smile happily. If it's the other way around you look overly attached and dependent.

[–]Elfclan3012 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

this is the foundation of Models by Mark Manson. Amazing read.

[–]JackGetsIt5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

easing the woman’s anxieties and insecurities.

This is really key. It's also why you constantly hear women say they highly prize men who can make them laugh. Women have so many insecurities and need strong, stoic, balanced men to keep them rational and grounded. This is also why women can walk after years of money, affection, and support. If you can't keep her anxieties and fears at bay she will almost immediately start branch swinging.

The drug metaphor is also rightfully used on redpill a lot. Women can get worn out and need higher doses of this drug as they ride the carousel as well. Better to seek out a lower partner count woman that hasn't become jaded and strung out on cock yet. She will always grow unsatisfied with whomever she settles with. Nothings as good as that first hit of quality chad.

[–]dark_star_840 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Upvote just for "quality Chad".

[–]do_it_or_leave5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Your writing style reminds me of Mark Mason from Models. Direct, clear, bring a thoughtful message, covers both theory and practical application of the message. I'd say you live off your writting.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Because men are the sex of action and productivity, nearly everything in society is geared around manipulating us into giving a shit. If someone can harness the power of your investment, they can profit greatly.

That includes you.

Learn to control and direct the power of your investment, and that profit will be yours.

Excellent post, OP.

[–]IGoYouStayTwoAutumns4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy


The Benjamin Franklin Effect (over at YOU ARE NOT SO SMART).

Get people (girls) to do things for you, and they'll start liking you more without realizing why. Great primer for game.

Also, upvote for Oreo cheesecake. That shit is bomb.

[–]SJHammer points points [recovered] | Copy

Asked a woman to do a favor for me last weekend. I thought I would be paying her for the service. I assisted but she did about 90% of the work. The whole time I flirted and escalated with her. By the end of the night, she just wanted my physical affection. She didn't ask for money, nor considered saying yes when I offered money. This is a favor that people often pay for.

[–]IGoYouStayTwoAutumns0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is a great example. Getting them doing things for you, "working" for you, and you'll have them eating out of the palm of your hand by the end of the night.

[–]PM-ME-YOUR-SEXTAPE8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sidebar dude. I would tip u

[–]Endorsed ContributorUrsusG8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Excellent style and content, great analysis for those who prefer in-depth over tl,dr.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Glad to see an EC comment. Hoping for more.

[–]TheSupr3m3Justic33 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's a simple equation really: You have to be willing to take a L. No matter what. Being able to walk away is the ultimate frame of mind.

[–]Metalbear556 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is one of the most thoughtful posts I've ever encountered on this sub

[–]ttkkk2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Tl;dr : I need a lambo.

Jk, great post, really deep, thanks for writing it.

Is hard to internalize this things at core level and it may take several years and experiences, specially with all the previous blue brainwash we are surrounded of.

The good news are that once on the rigth track you notice it and things change. Lots of dots start to conect having a great insight. Althought there will be drawbacks you have seen what is beyond, you have taken the red pill.

[–]Marventh2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This sounds really like an Interest Level from book "The System" by Doc Love.

[–]life2thefullest2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for this. I learned a lot from reading what you wrote. I just barely got into an LTR and have been feeling some sort of emotional investment and I can see how that makes you look/feel like a beta. I need to pull the reins back a little bit and show her how much of a boss I am with or without her.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe masturbation to your crush is an offline emotional investment that causes subconscious beta behaviors in real life.

This might explain why no-fap seems to work for some and is so difficult for others.

When you don't have a deep motivation to achieve a chosen goal, or perhaps just not catalyzed by fear or despair, then junk seems to fill your mind. You'd become addicted to the things that don't create a steady flow of happiness; instead, your life would be filled with major ups and downs like the stock market.

This is a really good article.

[–]corneliucodreanu2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

"To apply all this knowledge, my strategy is to adopt a rational, almost businesslike demeanor, at least in the early stages of the interaction."

Over the last two years I've adopted this exact same approach and can't tell you how significantly it has improved my success in dating.

Just went thru your blog. Pure gold. Sidebar material. Amen!

[–]420KUSHBUSH8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

This. A thousand times this.

[–]P4_Brotagonist6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Third, emotional investment makes you stupid and saps you of your vitality and awesomeness. Tons interesting, smart, funny, cool, successful guys become vacant shells of their normal selves around women, partly because their thoughts and emotions are empty of everything that makes them awesome.

This needs to be posted at least a thousand times more for everyone to see. I know so many amazing men who do so many great things, but as we all know, when men become "serious" with a woman they just fucking suck. They stop being adventurous. They stop mastering old things and learning new ones. Their life suddenly revolves around the person they are in love with and then spending their idle time stumbling around to get back to when they are with the person they love again. I think we have all done it. The single biggest killer of passion in any LTR(if you give a shit about them) is giving up all the shit that they fell for in the first place.

[–]peltosenkeke2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

"You want to become part of Leo’s awesome life, not make your own plan. That’s how girls feel when men don’t have a plan. They want to join your life, not lead you around in their life. That’s why you need to focus on your own fun first."

Well, if your life/plan/fun is filled with gym, reading, meditating and other self improvement, I don't think any girl is interested in that.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

it all depends on the way you talk about it, also the way you may disappear any time from her damn smartphone, because you have shit to do which you prioritize over her. Then she will want to become a priority. You can let her hope for it of course, don't be a narrow minded meathead. I lift 10/12 hours a week, 4 sessions that I'm never missing. But I try to make them feel like I lift AND I make an effort to make it interesting for her. Not because I want her to care about my last squats AMRAP, but being playful how my butt is better than hers, how there's a cool bar close to my gym where she should come when I'm done for a quick date, and so on.

I don't meditate but if I would I guess I would take my time doing so and allot a couple hours for it that no woman should disrupt. But then she can join me to whichever cool spot I've been staying at. Then go on babbling about nonsense to keep her brains excited.

Then of course if you act super rational and explain your excel spreadsheets or so, you need to work on yourself. It's not about the product, it's how you sell it

All of this being taken by a grain of salt as I've been moving every year to a new city for the last 4 years, and it's hard to actually create social bonds with great friends which is IME and IMO the best way to have an awesome life. Women mostly live through their friends and expect your group of friends to be awesome. When I meet a great social butterfly and I'm always by myself their interest fades quickly since they figure out the lack of plans vs their own abundance of (pointless but fun) plans

[–]JackGetsIt3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Would a girl want to fold laundry with Leo or go to an expensive dinner with neck beard shit lord?

Laundry of course because she knows that Leo doesn't just do laundry all the time and just spending time with him is fun because he's interesting and she wants a shot at a future with him when he won't always be doing laundry.

You can take the celebrity factor out of this and just have guy A guy B. Guy A is interesting and has a future and is funny so doing anything with him is going to be fun even if guy A is very invested in the boring task of a stoic life like gym and meditation.

How many hot highschool girls spend years dating a jock and never doing anything fun with him? Just picking him up from practice, walking to school with him. Meeting him for rare Friday night dates that end early because he has a 4:00am practice. Girls will invest years in that shit if they think you have a future and they get to ride the coat tails in that awesome future land.

[–]no_sponsor_pays_me1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Holy shit this was awesome. I had no idea this was an established thought and actionable process. As I was reading I identified so many things I had done right and wrong in the past, behaviors and actions that led me to relationships and breakups. I never put a name to them specifically until now. Thanks for the read, well worth it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Standing ovation required, gents.

[–]NihilistMonkey1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Best post I've read in months, saving this to reread whenever I feel myself slipping from the path.

[–]Jakei341 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just came here to see above average posts. Imagine my shock when I found yours. Very well written.

[–]iamtheswoop1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is one of the best posts I've ever read. I can't tell you how important this was for me and how helpful this information is. You explained some problems I couldn't work out in my mind and now it makes so much more sense! Thanks

[–]Alldayd1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the best post I've read on here.

[–]tolerantman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The most important part of EVERYTHING is not being emotionally invested

[–]OldGuyRedux1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Terrific post. A practical comment and a literary comment:

  1. Since my SMV can go up or down 1-2 points (I'm a professional/entrepreneur and get cortisol every so often...), I have had HB8s but then lose them... so it's important to KNOW your SMV. In picking stable relationships, I get more of the women traits you talk about by picking 1-2 points BELOW my STABLE SMV. It also institutionalizes a ZFG frame ... unlike a (male) hamster treadmill trying to keep a HB7+ satisfied while she is on Tinder every time I look away.

  2. I was influenced a little by the Kahlil Gibran book (The Prophet) early on... he writes below. I think he is saying suck it up and ride the waves of being emotionally involved. I see your points.. but there is a Joy (and by god... definitely a Pain) in E-I.

" if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure, Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor, Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears"

[–]OldGuyRedux0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Corollary to #2: Don't let it show except on Golden Rule (her 3 to your 1) basis... and then I think it works

[–]ransay32771 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Excellent post.. Proving again that he who cares the least; wins.

[–]Rhynovirus3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the Anti-Shitpost.

Doing Gods work here.

[–]XnewXdiabolicX3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

You don’t want to see her run off and be happy with another guy, you want her unhappy with you.

So treat people like shit and act like a little bitch who is so afraid of society that he has to act like he is cold and emotionless in order to fit into the mold? Fucking dumb.

I treat women with respect and get laid all the time. Without effort. I don't need to make women unhappy to trick them into being with me. I am simply pleasant to be around.

Treat her like shit, and she will just go fuck someone else. Happens all the time. She is a woman. You aren't her only option. Far from it. Emotionally invested or not, she will still fuck other people if you make her unhappy. Literally see it all the time.

Over-explanation of what a bunch of monkey minded men do who are too cowardly to act beyond what society expects of them.

"Treat women like shit, and act like we don't have any emotions at all! Even though we do, no way repressed emotions can be unhealthy! Let's do it guys!"

Fucking idiots.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

So treat people like shit and act like a little bitch who is so afraid of society that he has to act like he is cold and emotionless in order to fit into the mold?

I never said that. What I'm saying is that you should not become emotional until they are willing to reciprocate that emotion.

I also never said to treat her like shit. The whole point of this post is to show you that being an asshole and treating people like shit is not necessary. You just need to show that you are not too invested.

[–]XnewXdiabolicX1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification.

[–]TheRedChemist6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm impressed at the grace with which both of you handled that.

[–]piccolo3nj1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good post. TL;DL

Lots of fish in the sea, be like a shark and don't give a fuck

[–]Edwoodz31 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fucking amazing. This struck a chord with me. I was that guy who had the girl interested, and then showed too much emotional investment early (the staring thing is something I need to stop, I have no fucking idea why I do it). Thank you for this.

[–]sadbasturd992 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy

I don't understand, how do you go up to a woman and talk to her to pick her up, but not give a fuck ? If you don't give a fuck, why are you talking to her ?

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy

Because you guide your actions by rationality, not emotion.

[–]sadbasturd99-1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy

But if you really didn't give a fuck you wouldn't be talking to her.

[–]Phorgasmic1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

If you did read the post, theres this line:

she should feel like she is picking you, not vice-versa. You are just opening the door to her.

So of course you want to get to know her. But you frame it like you open the opportunity for her to get to know you.

[–]sadbasturd993 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

I find this pickup stuff to be so incredibly confusing and conflicting it really sounds like nonsense. You guys remind me of women.

[–]Phorgasmic0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

is the 99 in your nickname your birthyear? if yes consider yourself lucky and stick with it. if youre out there, gaming, you see these concepts manifest itself infront of your eyes..

[–]sadbasturd99-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

no I was born in 1974. Sorry for the venting just frustrated with people saying things that make absolutely no sense. Reminds me of how PUA's always talk about women have a "sense" of this and that. Total nonsense.

[–]midgetpooooo3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Not giving a fuck doesn't mean you don't even acknowledge the girl or not talk to her. It means that when you do talk to her you act like you're not interested until the right moment. For example, she's hanging around you and you're chilling there. You can flirt a bit or tease her and that's just all having fun. You're not saying things like "you look really nice today" or looking at her with this obviously lovey look. That's emotionally investing instead you wait for an opportunity in the conversation to say something like "oh let's grab some food after class/work/etc." It's about not showing you give a fuck if she says yes or no, but if she does say yes it means she is into you perhaps and you can escalate things on the "date."

[–]sadbasturd990 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ok I think I get it now thank you. This term seems to be thrown around a lot though and mean different things at different times.

[–]Satou40 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I didn't expect to be reading a novel today. Thanks though.

[–]endogenic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Our society acts like “love” is an emotion and “our true selves” are our emotions, but that’s bullshit. Our value lies in what we can do when we are rational, what we’ve learned in our life, what we know how to do, and what we strive to achieve and be when we are clear-headed. Emotions are temporary and fleeting; but true love is a rational, credible commitment to your beloved’s well-being.

Yes, I agree - well done. 👏

I would like to take this opportunity to contribute the definition of the term "love" which I learned from a master philosopher.

Love is quite different from attachment. Whereas attachment is to tie one's mind to something that can't be achieved - and is the origin of the emotional investment you mentioned - love is "blessing". So to practice love for some object is to perform the very action which becomes a blessing to the object. So, blessing does not exist in the absence of accomplishing something good in actual facts. What is blessing? It means the thing which returns goodness and causes or enables good results to an object in actual fact. True love always makes people change for the better, but attachment always makes them change for the worse.

[–]ImHerWonderland0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I absolutely needed to read this today. Thank you for taking the time to write this.

[–]invincibleipod0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I needed to see this post,Thank you for making this :)

[–]SMVSMY0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Women get turned by watching a man confidently pursue his mission. Why are women w so attracted to DJs, promoters, and drug dealers in the club? Those guys aren’t exactly the “cream” of society. It’s because those guys are the only people at the club actually doing something. All the other guys are just sitting there drooling over the girls, instantly reducing their attractiveness.

That right there is a gem, OP. Great insight!

Also - it's imperturbable (not unperturbable).

[–]IGoYouStayTwoAutumns0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I just want to take a moment to say:

This article is LONG, and I LIKE THAT.

Maybe I'm biased because I tend to write long myself, but so many posts on here are a few short paragraphs, maybe a couple of bullet points, and I've forgotten them 10 seconds after I've read them.

Some subjects deserve a shorter treatment, sure, but some things, like the subject above (withholding emotional investment) warrant a much longer, more thorough treatment. AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

We're not killing any trees here, so I say if your shit is good, write more not less. I know I'll remember this post for a long time to come, and it's because the guy drilled deeper than most.

Bravo, keep the good stuff coming.

[–]BlackVale0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'd get you a free piece of pussy and a beer if I could man. Thank you for taking your time with this. So much makes sense now.

[–]pspman3540 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This post started off correct but then ended up wrong. You can never emotionally invest in a woman at all. The only way I see to avoid emotionally investing is go MGTOW or dating someone ugly, those are ur only options, bcuz if you date a girl, without having any plates, u will emotionally invest, and as soon as you do, attraction will slowly fade.

[–]pspman3540 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Can you ever emotionally invest in a woman?

[–]sevenpasos points points [recovered] | Copy

Just curious, but in paragraph nine you say something along the lines as "I never buy chicks anything." Later in the paragraph you said you wanted to buy a girl a drink after she gave you free drinks. So is it only ok in that situation or others too?

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I do shit for girls, just less than they do for me

[–]WantToBeCompetent0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Reading this post has made me realise I find it very hard to distinguish between when I’m feeling good, and when I’m feeling good whilst hoping I have someone’s approval (having emotional investment). How do I experience positive emotions which are not anchored to someone’s approval? Especially when the aim is to have a good time with someone else? It seems a very foreign concept to me currently. When I try to avoid emotional investment, it seems that I'm avoiding all emotions altogether, and I come across as not being good/exciting company.

I feel I need examples described to me to learn. Examples where I can put myself in the shoes of someone who is where I want to be.

[–]ironjohnred0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This sir, is the best damn post I have read on here in a while. Comprehensive, wide reaching and very insightful. Hat tip!

[–]Vsevolodovi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

About Ben Franklin effect; it doesn't make a person like you. I'm quoting Wikipedia here: "A person who has performed a favor for someone is more likely to do another favor for that person than they would be if they had received a favor from that person. An explanation for this would be that we internalize the reason that we helped them was because we liked them" . Other than this, great writing.

[–]Mr_Dead0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Goddamn correct. Be your own person and hold women at arms length.

[–]Mantas_Confid0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What an insightful post. Thank you.

[–]Insilencio0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Posting to find later. This looks super interesting!

[–]ReadySetGonads0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sometimes guys will do loserish things, like let a girl treat them badly or repeatedly pursue a girl who doesn’t care about them, and justify it by saying “I don’t really care about her, I just want to fuck.” This is a bad idea, because even though you consciously think you “don’t give a fuck,” by pursuing her, you become emotionally invested, and by allowing her treat you like shit, you subconsciously re-wire your brain to feel like a beta male. Even if you didn't give a fuck before, now you do.

Fuck, I've been there and was too blind to see it. Live an learn right.

Great fucking post OP, jesus christ.

[–]Beats_By_Ray_Rice0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is so fucking brilliant in every way. Actually one of the best things I've ever read on the internet.

Fuck that, one of the best things I've ever read anywhere.

[–]Xacic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This post may have just saved my life!!!

[–]abcce10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Why is it called the Ben Franklin theory? That concept is at least as old as Plato, if not older. I googled and everyone seems to write as if Ben Franklin originated this psychology when it has in fact been discussed in famous books such as Plato's Republic.

[–]ajayhemant0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I know one solid method to keep girls for ever. Treat them like a friend always both inside as well as outside. Some how I figured out that girls hate lovers! Secret to modern woman's heart

Hemant Pandey

[–]shawn100267220 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This is a great post man. You helped clear up a lot of things for me. Really in debt. A lot of this stuff sounds like it's from Models by Manson? Was that one of your sources of inspiration for this post?

[–]itachimngkyoshrngn0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the post, really helpful

[–]codak-180 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Seriously, thank you for this, op. Many great perspectives and examples. More of TRP needs to read this.

[–]tanqop0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This shit needs to be sidebared

[–]Soraman360 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sidebar!! All newbie should read.

[–]xmichaelmx0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks so much for sharing this. It really can put some things in to perspective.

[–]mavrik970 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I wish I had read this a little sooner after recently becoming emotionally invested in my ex. I understand now that once that started it correlated with shitty times at the same time period. Thanks OP.

[–]tallwheel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A very long explanation for a very simple concept. Newbies, if you can only remember one thing, remember the title. Just as OP said, 99% of your game problems will be solved.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is one of the best entries I think I've ever read here.

[–]1SeemedGood0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nice work out of you. It's a simple and obvious principle, but your post is a great way to put it in context with rationale and straightforward explication.

Agree that it should be in the sidebar.


[–]aanarchist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

the most important part is not overinvestment. don't be a sociopath it's not fun.

[–]tam8a_tomato0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm gonna keep coming back to this pretty often to re-read. It hits home, and so I'll be referring back to your post until it no longer does. So thank you.

[–]KingUmed0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you sir. Phenomenal post.

[–]thurands0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lots of truth in this, beautifully written, so even I can understand :D Thank you so much! you've just helped a fellow man in this world so I can get my shit together and start living the life I want!

[–]recon_johnny0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Who the fuck downvotes this.

Exceptionally well done.

[–]Ether_Freeth0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for the effort and a great article.

This gives a lot of body to things I already knew at about 40% as well as a lot of great new insights.

[–]SlyAM0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Great post so far! Loving the depth and how everything I'm reading actually makes sense unlike some of the post on TRP lately. Saving to finish up later, good work!

[–]Hammerhead90 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Amazing post i must say, i agree with everyone these types of posts are what i am even here for. Obviously the whole thing stuck out to me, but when of my favourite lines was "If a woman knows she occupies your thoughts and emotions, she will assume your life sucks," straight up on point.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is really good advice. But again, I should say: anything stating do this or that is bullshit. "Abundance mentality: think as if you are Brad Pitt" is bullshit if you are not Brad Pitt.

There is one simple prerequisite and necessity to all of these: OBTAIN HIGH SMV. If you already have it but are still too naive to succeed, then learn from these threads.

[–]tsirolnik-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Excellent read. I think that a TL;DR and some examples on how to apply it would be great

[–]CHIPPENDALESIXNINE points points [recovered] | Copy

Instead of wasting a post space, I'll use this thread to ask this questions. It seems appropriate. Recently, a chick I had a little fling with last year randomly texted me, as she now lives next to me and happened to pick up my wifi. Oddly, this was 2 days after she saw me at the college library and I acted like I didn't even notice her, while talking to another chick sitting next to me. I'm guessing this gave her more reason to think I had value and increased her sense of competition. Anyway, she texts me, and I reply with short answers, throwing in remarks like "I'm not bringing house warming cookies" after she tells me she lives near me. I stop texting her for the entire night and decide I'll let her sit till morning. Haven't heard anything back for a few days. Maybe I pissed her off by not giving her what she wanted. Of course I'm not going to txt her again until she responds. This got me thinking. With men being the real romantic sex and women just looking for the next best benefit for themselves, we're supposed to play this game forever. But what kind of a cruel joke is this? Men are taught since birth that we should be his way, we see Disney moves saying things will be that way, and women constantly say that's what they want, but it's not. Are we supposed to live our entire lives longing for a connection that we'll never get and constantly keep ourselves and our women in check forever; never to experience love?

[–]NuclearTruthBomb2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

The divorce rate is around 50%, primarily caused by women. And that's not counting all the passionless deadbedroom marriages with constantly nagging wives. Its not like half the country is filled with selfish monsters who physically and emotionally abuse their wives. Its because we're trying to force a social element that doesn't fit with our biological desires.

Women's sexual appetite for men peaks off after the first couple of years. Men, however, will always have an urge to fuck more women in the back of their brains. Women also have an urge to branch swing, so some suave playboy may very well game her into his bedroom. If we were truely a monogamous species, we'd only want to fuck our SO until we reach our death beads. "God's creation" is in fact less loyal than some birds and voles.

People aren't inherently good, they're inherently selfish. Men and women both have elements that make monogamy incompatible. In women's case, they require you to be Alpha until the day you die, and even that might not keep her happy. The "connection" and "love" men dream about can only exist under a vicious patriarchy, that actively oppresses women and shames promiscuous sex. We threw that away for "Muh Body, Muh Choice", and monogamy is falling apart. Love yourself, and never get married.

[–]CHIPPENDALESIXNINE points points [recovered] | Copy

Damn, I almost forgot that the red pill is supposed to be hard to swallow. Just another reality check showing that things aren't really what we've grown up believing them to be.
The post said that if a women makes advances, we should respond with acceptance, not being cold, and not ignoring unless they're doing those things to us first. From what I've read on here, I thought it was good to sometimes go cold on a woman, distance yourself, or make them feel as if they're not always impressing us and getting what they want. I guess it depends on the individual woman?

[–]NuclearTruthBomb2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

No, you distance yourself AFTER you start getting to know her. If a woman starts throwing herself at your feet, you can't exactly look the other way and expect her to chase you all day. You have to tease her with an appropriate amount of excitement, while showing minimal emotional investment.

I don't love non-scientific sources, but ruminate on these lines:

According to a recent study by iVillage, less than half of wedded women married the person who was the best sex of their lives (52 percent say that was an ex.) In fact, 66 percent would rather read a book, watch a movie or take a nap than sleep with a spouse.

“I knew [my best sex partner] was temporary, and so the great sex was the best because the sex was the relationship,” she adds. “We didn’t have to invest in anything else.”

“what makes sex incredible, or places it into the range of ‘best sex’, is an element of danger. There’s an element of disobedience . . . that elicits a feeling of carnal desperation. [That feeling is often provoked by] the guy who you shouldn’t be with versus the one that you marry.”

“Your best sexual relationship has likely been with the person who was most unstable and most volatile, but was very passionate,” Cooper says. “That’s like riding a roller coaster. That’s passion. But if you have a family, riding a roller coaster isn’t that great for kids.”

Women don't enter marriage for mindblowing sex with their husband - they do so to be provided for. This is why cocky, asshole-ish, noncommital Chads give women the best sex in their life - good luck ever getting laid by showing off provider traits. So men must constantly work on their Alpha Game - at the beginning of the relationship, she's excited, so you don't have to isolate her. But for any long-term relationship? Remember the D.E.N.N.I.S. System - "Neglect Emotionally".

[–]midgetpooooo-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Man just text her. A good friend once told me if you're thinking about her and want to see her then just text her, no reason for this rules bullshit. You got nothing to lose compared to not texting her at all lol.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

"there's this one girl" = instant downvote, stopped reding.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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