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Female BBC manager publicly declines promotion over pay inequality | After she threw a public tantrum, it's revealed that the male manager had several years more experience than her, justifying the difference in pay. The BBC is standing firm for once - good for them!

EricAllonde

May 22, 2019
9152 upvotes
/r/PussyPassDenied
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/may/22/female-bbc-manager-offered-12000-pounds-less-than-man-same-role
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Title Female BBC manager publicly declines promotion over pay inequality | After she threw a public tantrum, it's revealed that the male manager had several years more experience than her, justifying the difference in pay. The BBC is standing firm for once - good for them!
Author

EricAllonde

Upvotes 9152
Comments 363
Date May 22, 2019 5:01 PM UTC
(7 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/PussyPassDenied
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/pussypassdenied/comments/brr9qg/female_bbc_manager_publicly_declines_promotion/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PussyPassDenied/female-bbc-manager-publicly-declines-promotion.877123
https://theredarchive.com/post/877123
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Comments

[–]ivebeenhereallsummer1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (86 children) | Copy Link

“Roger has worked at or above this level for several years whereas Karen was offered this role as a promotion, with a significant pay increase. We think most people would understand that these factors would result in some difference between their individual pay,” he said.

They are either naive or are playing ignorant of Karen's true intention which is obviously public intimidation in the hopes of getting an even higher up promotion she really isn't qualified to fill. If they cave they will have a dozen more lawsuits and end up with a board of directors made up of inexperienced young women who are way overpaid.

[–]SwordfshII 634 points635 points636 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Fire her immediately for creating a hostile and unprofessional environment.

Emailing the staff...WTF

[–]alright-butthole 84 points85 points86 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup

[–]BlackSwanBS 91 points92 points93 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You sound like a sexist person. /s

[–]123443219 17 points18 points19 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Forgot the /s

[+]TeamLIFO -32 points-31 points-30 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That would definitely trigger a discrimination lawsuit

[+]MNGrrl -49 points-48 points-47 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Emailing the staff...WTF

The BBC has acknowledged culture problems within the organization and many people are frustrated and dissatisfied with a lackluster performance in resolving them. I understand why she did it. But she jumped the gun. Negotiations hadn't concluded and the benefit of the doubt goes to the BBC as they did close the gap by a third on review. This suggests there's some merit to the claim.

But firing her would be the wrong move politically and organizationally. They should have made a better offer to begin with. A income band of 60-100k for a senior level position... But a 12k gap? How many years experience are required to move to the top of that band? They low balled. But that's not unusual for an initial offer either. You're expected to counteroffer.

They should have been sensitive to poor optics and opened higher. And she should have kept her mouth shut until they were firm. The BBC manager who made the offer shouldn't have tried that given the current political situation. It may mean less room at the table but that's the game. If you can't play it, don't be a manager.

[–]ModusNex 38 points39 points40 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

But a 12k gap? How many years experience are required to move to the top of that band?

Just a guess but, starting at 60k, 7 years experience at 2.64% raise each year = $12k gap. The full length of the pay scale would be 20 years to get to 100k. The scale would need to adjust for inflation too, otherwise she has a point.

According to the article, the other editor has several years working at that level.

[–]Minobull 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not to mention performance based raises. I once had a 10% raise for my annual review, plus another 5% mid year for excellent work.... That was nearly 12k in 1 year and a nearly identical pay scale... $12k for several years is definitely reasonable.

[–]fuckathrowy 22 points23 points24 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What 12k for 7 years? thats not even a 2k raise a year? Ive been working in my industry (same position) for 6 years and make like 13k more a year than when i started. And i make wayyy less than them so its a much higher percentage.

In what world is 12k more for 7 years more experience too much. Thats almost a decade more of experience!! If anything its a good deal.

My former boss who got promoted (no experience) made 55k a year. His predecessor made 90k because he had 10 years experience. Thats normal, atleast in the industry i work.

[+]MNGrrl -6 points-5 points-4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Broadcasting and entertainment have a somewhat atypical salary curve, and there's more mobility than average. But I don't live in the UK and the BBC is actually a government agency (of sorts) as I understand, so that's why I popped the question. It could be reasonable. Then again it might not be. It seems this question has not been explored by the media, despite its relevance.

[–]Zelthia 201 points202 points203 points 7 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Her name is Karen.

What did you guys expect?

[–]MAKAZEN 71 points72 points73 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

fuckin karen

[–]masven 52 points53 points54 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's always Karen.

[–]fartsinscubasuit 30 points31 points32 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Bet she took the goddamn kids too

[–]Law_of_Matter 20 points21 points22 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Just the girls

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She hates her boys

[–]Sterling-Archer 84 points85 points86 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

But think of all the diverse and creative ways that those women will solve tough problems!

Such as crying, filing an HR complaint, or calling in sick, like the women where I work do when something bad happens

[–]NaughtyFred 76 points77 points78 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

This. I anonymously emailed our "big" boss in corporate about one of our female managers behaviour. After exiting his office 45 minutes later she disappeared to the bathroom for 30 minutes and had clearly been crying. Such a display of strength and independence, I truly respected her.

[+]pookaten1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

‘WoMEn DeAl wItH prOBLemS DiFferentLy. So TheY MuST bE WEaK’

Goes home after a stressful day to hit wife, neglect children and continue alcohol dependency. So macho!

P.S. you’re sexist. And if it hurts when the genders are reversed so why do it in the first place. Secondly, if you believe my statement is a specific case generalised to all men and yours isn’t, rethink your position.

[–]Stooofu 28 points29 points30 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Where'd that come from? How'd any of that message imply someone beats their wife for not tolerating unprofessional behavior?

[–]shadus 36 points37 points38 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

When you're alt-left anything that doesn't involve outright worship at her feet, acknowledging all genders, demeaning all men, white pipo, and hailing our lord hillary as the rightful president means you're an alt-right shitlord nazi traitor fascist scum.

There is only what they agree with and anything but that makes you a nazi rapist abusive pos.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Literally the state of affairs anymore. It’s a travesty.

[–]Stooofu 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's fun to make the NPCs bluescreen when you ask them the motivation for their actions.

[–]NaughtyFred 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This must be one of those russian bots I've heard about.

[+]LetMeTouchMyself -11 points-10 points-9 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is just sexism

[+]lordsmish -8 points-7 points-6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Main problem with this sub is you are going to get the misogynists and sexists mixed in with regular folks...in fact i'd go as far to say looking at his upvote count they probably outnumber us.

[–][deleted] 54 points55 points56 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But it’s the dream!

Edit: /s

[–]BlackBoxInquiry 25 points26 points27 points 7 years ago (47 children) | Copy Link

...and will go bankrupt and be out of business before or on the 3rd anniversary of said folly.

FTFY

[–]GxPand 32 points33 points34 points 7 years ago (45 children) | Copy Link

By law every UK household with a TV has to pay them £150+ a year so I doubt they'll go bankrupt. It's a massive legal scam.

[–]shin-wb 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Not if you don't watch live TV or use the BBC streaming services. Don't get scammed into paying that shit if you're using your TV for any other number of valid reasons.

[–]FallenWarrior2k 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

They changed that in Germany and it's fucking annoying.

I don't have any form of working cable or antenna in my flat, the only cable connected to my TV is an HDMI coming out of my PC, and I don't own a radio either. Yet I am forced to pay roughly 55-60€ per quarter because there's a flat fee per household unless you're on social security. Spoiler: my taxable monthly income is less than what social security would pay.

It's absolute bullshit.

[–]shin-wb 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That sounds horrendous man, best wishes from the UK. Germany does sound like it has gone mad over the past few years.

[–]Valac_I whiteKnight for fatties 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

As an American.

Say what now?

[–]FallenWarrior2k 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Fees for public broadcasting, even if you have no way to receive said broadcasts...

It was previously based on something like how many receiver devices you had and how many people lived in a household but was then replaced by a flat fee of roughly 18€ per month and household.

[–]Valac_I whiteKnight for fatties 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's not cool at all.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Even more reason to say fuck Germany.

[–]Wallawino 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

What if you don't have a TV? You don't have to pay?

[–]TheKnightMadder 25 points26 points27 points 7 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

Nope.you dont need to pay if you have a tv but dont watch tv on it either, its fine. Better than a tax.

Occasionally youll get license people ask if they can see your lack of a tv or that its not plugged in, you dont have to let them in if you dont want to but the only guy whos ever asked me was polite so I said sure. Walked in, 'yep - not plugged in. Bye!'

Its weird, but its the most benign thing you can think of.

[–]HofmannsPupil 24 points25 points26 points 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

I'm in the US, and this is the first I've ever heard about BBC's "tax" thanks for the useful info! I found this whole thread interesting!

[–]pbzeppelin1977 26 points27 points28 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's part of the origin of the "have you got a license for that" meme.

To add on to the previous person you also need the license if you watch live TV online or to use the catch up website for BBC shows.

[–]DarkBlaze99 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Btw what's the original recording of that meme?

[–]caribou161 points 7 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Flip side, no commercials

[–]sussinmysussness 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'd pay that for no commercials

[–]Ccracked 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In a fucking heartbeat.

[–]GxPand 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but the BBC own plenty of other freeview channels such as Dave that do run adverts but yet they take the license fee still.

[–]TheKnightMadder 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, it's one of those things that you don't really think about here, but when you actually explain it to someone it's freaking bizarre.

I like it though. It's very british. Instead of a tax, we have a completely voluntarily paid license run entirely on the honour system which is, at it's very worst, a minor annoyance.

[–]troublesome58 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

And how what percentage of people actually pay this tax voluntarily?

Where I am from, that number would be very close to 0.

[–]Hookton 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Almost everyone. Top of my head, in my life I've known one person who didn't pay it

[–]shadus -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You sweet spring child. You do understand what tithe is right?

[–]Shamus-McNasty 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

10% of pretax income given to indoctrinate the community with bigotry and intolerance

[–]ivebeenhereallsummer 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They really come down on you hard if their cat detector van picks up on any unlicensed purring coming from your home.

[–]Purlygold 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We have the exact same system in Sweden. Its funny how common it is to just not pay because its not like theres a fine or anything for not paying. Or I should say had because they are converting it to a tax now. Actually makes alot more sense and people have been saying it should be that way for years.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

UK shit hole. License/tax for a tv is ludicrous. You got the thought police going door to door too?

[–]Enverex 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You know you can just not pay it right?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And people come right to your door and ask to come in to see your butterknife license too.

[–]MathFabMathonwy -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's changed. You have to pay if you have any device capable of viewing broadcast content, BBC or otherwise. Not watching does not exempt you.

[–]TheKnightMadder 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No, it hasn't.

https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one

​

> You need to be covered by a TV Licence to

Watch or record programmes as they’re being shown on TV or live on an online TV service

Download or watch BBC programmes on iPlayer.

[–]MathFabMathonwy 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hmm, maybe they've changed again? Those criteria don't seem familiar from when I reviewed them some months back. Anyway, TIL

[–]CybranM 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure if it works the same in the UK but here in Sweden the "national TV service" SVT is accessible through the internet which means that everyone has to pay.

[–]Purlygold 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Thats not true, or it wasn't until they made it a tax. For like a month they made computers something you had to pay for before they took it back because of complaints. After and before that you only paid if you had a tv with a receiver. But you can just say you dont and you wont/wouldnt have to pay.

Source: Me, i dont pay, was signed up paying for my parents tv for them after I moved out but called them and got the money back. My parents didnt have to pay that back either.

[–]CybranM 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean yeah youre right, but thats the old system, with the new system the tax will apply to everyone regardless of if you have/use a TV or not

[–]lennyofquirm1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

It's not. If you watch tv on the internet you only need the licence if you watch live tv. If you're watching catch up, streaming, whatever else you don't.

[–]petchef 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Not true any more you need a tv lisence to use iplayer

[–]lennyofquirm1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

For playback as well? I thought it was only for live iplayer.

[–]petchef 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's my understanding of it yeah

[–]MiscllaneousShitPost 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

You can have a TV but you're not allowed to watch "live television" on it.

You can watch catch-up programs, so long as it isn't BBC Iplayer and play video games etc, most people pay the £150 because it's more hassle than them popping up and trying to catch you watching live television etc, asking to come inside and if you deny gaining a warrant if they have "reasonable suspicion" which is tantamount to basically a hunch.

I want to quit but the missus watches the news in the morning, we watch no BBC programs though but we're forced to pay it because draconic laws.

[–]RainbowAssFucker 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It also goes towards radio and maintaining antennas for other stations other than BBC radio

[–]MiscllaneousShitPost 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

That's great, how would I live without the vast array of overpaid BBC radio hosts.

Quite well actually.

[–]RainbowAssFucker 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's like the NHS everyone pays in and it's for the greater good. When you turn on TV or the radio even if it's just once a year it's nice to know it's there and that everyone else can have it too

[–]MiscllaneousShitPost 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm all for some socialist systems on the fringe edges of human welfare, but socialized entertainment is fucking cancer.

[–]rudysaucey 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wtf

[–]rudysaucey 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oi! You got a license for that Telli there mate?

[–]Testiculese 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And then blame everyone but themselves.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The female cries out in pain as she strikes you.

[–]nocivo 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Many people don’t know how to negotiate their salary, so they try to use peer or public pressure to get better deals. The equal pay is the perfect weapon for that in some women minds. What they forget is that there is no unequal pay. There is always a reason behind someone getting paid more and a penis is not a reason.

[–]alright-butthole 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Paragraph 18

[–]WTF_Karen 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nuff said

[–]X_Maverick_X 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ofcourse she's a Karen

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So like Huffington Post.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Doesn’t surprise me she’s named Karen

[–]Silomi 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

R/FuckYouKaren

[+]Pootigottam -8 points-7 points-6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

While I think the extra experience the man had probably explains the pay gap, I think this comment is really wrong. Karen even said that she was told if she chose to decline the promotion her career would be damaged, and she’s specifically said she was fighting for equal pay.

I don’t think this is a ploy to get a kickback or a pay rise over the man, this was a misguided protest against what she saw as unfair pay (which is understandable as the BBC has had public issues with gender pay gaps for their highest paid presenters, so there is a precedent that the BBC are trying to address) when in reality while it may have been partly due to that, it was also down to the man (whose name I’ve forgotten oops) having more experience.

I don’t think acting like this was a cynical ploy to draw more cash than her male counterpart is fair. While the point of equal pay may be moot considering the bloke’s experience, potentially torpedoing one’s career is generally incompatible with an aim of getting a massive payday.

And she definitely isn’t gonna get a promotion for this and it’s fucking absurd to suggest she expects one: it’s not impossible that the BBC will stall her career over this incident or even fire her. She’s hardly done this to get a promotion over this guy’s head. That’s like me walking in to the boss’ office and taking a crap on his paperwork then asking to be his secretary. And I’m not even gonna touch the board of directors comment because I think that’s just abject lunacy.

[–]nmagod 167 points168 points169 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Hey remember when Google investigated the "wage gap" internally and found that they had been underpaying MEN for years?

[–]drift_summary 40 points41 points42 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Pepperidge Farm remembers!

[–]abacabbmk1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (26 children) | Copy Link

Me and this girl are managers.

Both same qualifications. We both started at the same wage. She has been here one year more. Therefore currently earns 3% more than I do.

WaGe InEqUaLiTy!!!!!!!!!!!

[–]afkb39sdfb 161 points162 points163 points 7 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Life pro tip:

People who change jobs every ~3 year make an average of 50% more 20 years later than people who stay with the same company for 20 years.

You gotta find that raise/promotion.

[–]abacabbmk 45 points46 points47 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Oh for sure. I totally agree with that.

But again, I've been here just under two years she's been here just under 3. She gets paid more, but I don't care cuz it makes perfect sense. Ultimately we will both leave soon for better pay elsewhere as like you said, it's usually the best time to leave.

I would never stay anywhere for 10 years. Unless I was 10 years.from retirement and had a sweet.gig.

[–]Thisoldeadbr1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

File a lawsuit n teach them a lesson bro, wtf...

[–]Medieval_Historian 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What?

[–]chadnuts -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You are obviously not a loyal worker.

[–]abacabbmk 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sarcasm?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Wait, is that real?

I'm 21, i don't know such things and logically speaking it doesn't sounds real to me, could you explain the reason behind your statement?
It's an honest question, i'm ignorant in this field.

[–]EverydayGaming 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It sounds like it doesn't make sense. My father worked for two companies his whole life and got regular raises. That's not the way of the world anymore. Companies simply don't show the same loyalty to existing staff that they used to.

Let's say you're making $40K. If a promotion isn't available, what would you expect after a good year? Some companies do no raises. Others do cost of living (2ish%). If you're lucky, maybe you'll get 5%. If you're at a fantastic company, maybe they'd give you a 10% raise.

Alternatively, another company could be paying $60K for the same role. It just makes more sense these days to hop around.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh well you are right, i remember a friend of mine who switched from Fujitsu to Lenovo, and for the same role he is getting more money.

Sorry im dumb

[–]zilooong 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You're asking a question many of us don't even know to ask and getting us an answer that rather substantially broadens or changes how we should think about navigating job markets, so don't say you're dumb, because that'll make us that don't even know to ask the question feel even worse, hahaha!

[–]EverydayGaming 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No need to apologize. It's confusing to try and navigate the current job market, regardless of career path.

[–]kxtianguy1 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Started at 30k jumped ship after 2 years for 45k. Jumped again after three for 75. Jumped again for 90. Now jumped for 130. Would have liked to stay at one place put down roots and create a better culture for the company. But most companies can't, due to being accountable for maximum profit for stock holders- all for the almighty dollar.

[–]Xxcunt_crusher69xX 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Basically: where i started, i kept leveling up until the level above me was the owner. They couldn't keep paying me double the salary every year, could they?

So when i switched, i went to a company that offered double my salary (tbh i was underpaid).

I've been working there for almost 2 years now. When i switch, i expect it to be a 20-30% raise, or else i wont accept.

The best ill get here is 10% a year.

I've also been leveling up in the company sizes. You could do what I'm doing, move on to better roles in better companies, or you could work a relatively worse role in a huge company and accept a senior role in a smaller company.

There's more scope of getting a higher salary than you would now.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's really cool, thank you for your explaination and example.

I'm in a great company now, but i don't think i could grow a lot here, just because the possibilities for a raise are minimal (considering that in this place, we got 400+ employers)

I will consider, in the future, switching job to a better one :)

​

Good luck

[–]Xxcunt_crusher69xX 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks.

I would still find a balance if i were you. I've had 2 jobs as of yet, but I've made them last at least 1.5 years so it doesn't look like im skipping from place to place like a butterfly. Switching too many times may show employers you're unreliable for the long term.

I'm 21 too, so 1.5 years is such a long time for us. Meanwhile older people take 5-10 years to switch because that's a long time for them.

[–]notawickedwicca 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm my experience it's accurate. Years ago companies used to reward loyalty, but now they tend to hire on new workers at a higher wage than their current workers.

You should Google articles on why changing jobs will earn you more money. It's messed up, but that's the reality now.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Wage gap is a myth. Study any workplace and you will see that everyone gets what they work for

[–]abacabbmk 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

agreed

[+]msmurasaki -6 points-5 points-4 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I sorta see both points though I am leaning towards his side. But to play devil's advocate though. The two people were promoted to the same position at the same time. Meaning equal responsibilities starting at the same time and thus wanting fair wages for the work they put in.

If the pay band is between 60-100k then that's almost a 10-16% difference.

Have seen the teachers at my school get pretty angry over this, where people who have YEARS of experience and are almost 50 get a lot more than people with less years of experience. This is because their labour contract increases pay based on years, education, etc.

However, while there are some people who are good teachers and do work properly. There have been a lot of them who give a fuck, get paid, and do the minimum workload, leaving it onto the others to pick up the slack. (Like literally sleeping in the middle of a lecture). Most of the good teachers eventually quit because they are not being properly paid for the work, even if they started with incredible passion they get worn down because it is obviously demotivating. Since it is in the IT field, experience also means shit, if you don't stay updated and up-to-date.

If he was promoted a year before her and then had a higher wage, I could sort of get that. If his work shows an obvious difference to hers due to experience, I can also understand that. Maybe the positions only opened up now and could accept two people, one who was good and one that was great.

But if they do the same amount and equally great work. Then that's kinda shitty. It's honestly hard to understand the situation without more context. If he really was this great and had higher positions before, why wasn't he promoted earlier for example.

[–]Zelthia 23 points24 points25 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The two people were promoted to the same position at the same time

No.

They were both appointed to the position within the BBC.

She was promoted, he has been working in that level (and above) for several years.

From the article:

Roger has worked at or above this level for several years whereas Karen was offered this role as a promotion, with a significant pay increase

[–]msmurasaki 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

“Despite being awarded the same job, on the same day, after the same board, during the same recruitment process, BBC News asked me to accept a considerably lower salary than my male counterpart. A lot less,” she wrote in the email sent to all BBC radio newsroom staff.

This is what made me think they were promoted to the same position at the same time.

But I see now that I misread and that they could have likely gotten him from another company.

[–]Zelthia 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah I figured it was an honest mistake.

I don’t know if he was in a different company or just a different dept. within BBC. I guess both are possible. The real issue here is that Karen is the typical entitled cunt with an axe to grind, opening her big fat mouth before doing her research.

Personally I would feel extremely embarrassed if I had made a fuss about not being paid the same as some other dude who has years of experience in the position I just got promoted to.

[–]msmurasaki 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I agree that is honestly pretty embarrassing. The UK is also very good at dumbing down laws and contracts so to be inclusive to everyone and help people know their rights. I would think their contracts would also state or include that as a way of explaining the difference.

[–]ZaviaGenX 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And she said no to the promotion... Leaving her where she is for the rest of her bbc career. Which superior is gonna dare recommend her for a promotion again?

Hell, which other company would wanna hire a potential PR risk?

She really played her hand badly.

[–]abacabbmk 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Youre right. Sooooo many variables.

“Roger has worked at or above this level for several years whereas Karen was offered this role as a promotion, with a significant pay increase. We think most people would understand that these factors would result in some difference between their individual pay,” he said.

Proven individual vs unproven individual. Someone who was already making around that salary vs someone who wasn't.

Internal promotion from Staff to Manager? You're not going to make the top end of the pay band. You have a lot to prove.

External hire, someone with proven Manager experience? Probably higher end of the pay band.

Its pretty logical.

I dont like the teacher situation (often unions). Great teachers who care day in day out dont get recognized. Bad teachers who do the least possible and are terrible teachers just coast. All that matters? Years of experience. This causes two issues, you dont recognize the great ones, therefore you demotivate people over time. Second being that poor performers dont improve (or leave).

[+]msmurasaki -8 points-7 points-6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Aren't they both proven considering they were working in the same company before the promotion. They say he has worked at or above this level for several years. Where though? Why didn't he anymore? Did he suck, was he fired, etc etc? Just because someone has been a boss somewhere else doesn't mean they are super amazing at it. Why would he choose a lower position to have to promote to the position he had before?

I understand that it can happen, people want a change and one has to work their way up again in different companies if their position isn't available or whatever. But we don't know if he was making the same salary at the time before the promotion.

I also understand if he moved directly from one job to this job and negotiated a similar wage. But they were both promoted indicating he was working the same position as her before that. For all we know, she has worked in that actual company long before him.

A lot of our shitty teachers worked in great corporations until they were eventually asked to leave (for obvious reasons). They had to accept a lower paygrade vs nothing. They literally can't find any other jobs which is pretty obvious to us students when we are able to surpass them due to their outdated knowledge that they cling to. The 'good' teachers who leave get amazing jobs with a much higher paygrade. They only taught because they cared and enjoyed it, rather than being forced to or for the money alone. They just weren't getting enough compensation over time in comparison to their workload.

As I said, I do understand both sides, and it is hard to know without so many variables. I remember working a minimum wage job in a gardening warehouse when I was in my young 20s. There were teenagers who also worked there with little to no work experience, some weren't even 18 yet. They worked the cashier while I worked the whole store. We started the same time. I spent the first month learning everything I could about the store to be able to help as much as possible. Eventually all the teenagers would always come to me to ask questions or get help. One day they found out I started the same time and were annoyed at the wage difference. But the answer was simple, I had good references, experience in the work life, and you guys keep running to me to help with everything. That higher amount of responsibility had a lot to say.

But if I started in a whole other company with a teenager who had work experience and good work ethic. We both work equally well together for years and the experience levels even out. I would find it surprising if we were both promoted and they got less, just for a few years difference experience. I have had some incredibly young colleagues who are equally good or even better than me in the minimum wage jobs because they have high passion in it, while I might just have good experience and sail by with decent work ethic. I wouldn't say they deserve less if they are proving themselves.

[–]LiveTheTruth321 421 points422 points423 points 7 years ago (75 children) | Copy Link

Yesterday I commented on how my dad earlier this year works with a chick who at the time only worked for less than a year yet she was asking for an increase in pay to be that of a guy who is not only the supervisor but also worked there for 15 years. She was justifying the raise because she wouldnt have rent to pay to for her expensive downtown apartment.

[–]unseencs 164 points165 points166 points 7 years ago (73 children) | Copy Link

Unfortunately that isn't just an idea that some woman have it's an entire generation of men and woman that believe they deserve things to be given to them.

[–]pbj986 92 points93 points94 points 7 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

It’s from a generation that is only seeking an equal scale of pay for cost of living increases, which have ballooned far beyond what pay increases have in the last several decades.

All wages/salaries should be higher, not just the most experienced.

[–]8008135__ 43 points44 points45 points 7 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

This is the right answer.

Just because dude with 15 years experience has had 15 years of tiny raises, doesn't make his pay fair and it doesnt mean his pay is a good benchmark for others.

[–]Tylorw09 26 points27 points28 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Ding ding.

It’s not that the young generation is spoiled it’s that we understand that we are ALL getting fucked by this economic system and are fighting for enough to live on.

The older generation had better rates at younger ages and were able to buy homes and be set as the wages started to stagnate.

Now here we are at the tail end of it saying “hey you fuckers need to start paying wages that match inflation and are competitive”

[+]8008135__ -15 points-14 points-13 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

And here we are in a sub full of people chomping at the bit to shame a woman for trying to fight for higher pay just because she's a woman.

When one of us publicly brings attention to pay and wins, everyone can use that as a jumping off point to negotiate higher.

Maybe the male BBC manager is also underpaid for all we know (everyone is underpaid).

[–]ISuckWithUsernamess 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No one is trying to shame her for wanting a higher pay.

We are shaming her because she is using imagined sexism as the argument for that raise.

[–]WeJustTry 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not when a key component of your argument is that you are being discriminated against due to genitals vs experience. How am I going to use a pussy pass when I have a penis ?

[–]guylostintheuniverse1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

This is the right answer.

Just because dude with 15 years experience has had 15 years of tiny raises, doesn't make his pay fair and it doesnt mean his pay is a good benchmark for others.

No you are mistaken. 15 years of tiny raises for 15 years of experience does make his pay very fair. He worked hard. He earned it. Plain and simple.

It does offer as somewhat of a benchmark because it's someone another can earn if they worked at his level. So something to aim for.

It's totally unjustified and unfair for someone with significantly less experience to be paid the same.

[–]Thehighwayisalive 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think he meant that the guy with 15 years worth of raises might still not be being paid enough.

15 years of five cent raises is meaningless.

[–]8008135__ 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

15 years of tiny raises for 15 years of experience does make his pay very fair.

I know a guy who's worked for the same company his entire life. He's a regional director, just below C-level.

He makes just under 150k and is a handful of years away from retirement.

He started at 50k in the early 80's at an entry level position. (132k in today's dollars!)

Accounting for 30+ years of inflation, he's seen a lifetime pay increase of just over 17k in buying power.

Read that again: 30+ years of climbing the corporate ladder for a 17 thousand dollar increase.

The CEO gets paid several million in cash plus many million more in equity.

This guy's pay is equal to less than 2% of the CEO's pay.

National salaries have stagnated for more than 40 years. Everyone but the highest level execs is paid too little and infighting between the wage workers only helps keep wages low.

[–]guylostintheuniverse1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

This is very sad, however one can argue that no one can really predict the cost of inflation over the years. But in retrospec this should be accounted for in raises, having the top level exec increase significantly in pay whilst his minions dont is a poor move I'd say.

I believe the top level exec should be paid well, but not at the expense of workers, after all its the workers who made the grit of the company. They should be given a capped salary (say for example 50k-100k) and only give themselves bonuses if their company achieves targets. But if they get bonuses so should everyone else. Or lets say bonuses is out of the question, then an exec main motivation should be the value of their shares, and in being a good exec and increasing values means they are doing.

[–]8008135__ 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You don't need to predict inflation when assessing annual raises. The inflation rates are published monthly. It's not a mystical secret.

You can check yourself before you go into your next annual review and see for yourself whether you A. got a real raise (inflation % +), B. kept the same salary (inflation % only), or C. got a pay cut (less than inflation %... or no "raise" at all and you really got fucked).

[–]guylostintheuniverse1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Ah ok I didn't know that. Thanks

[–]8008135__ 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I wish this stuff was more accessible to average Americans. I don't think it's taught in schools. We'd be in a better place today if we were all more financially literate when it came to negotiating our wages and setting expectations for work.

Same guy in my story up there who's probably delaying his retirement due to insufficient life-long savings also told me my 45k entry level pay was "to be commended" when I was first starting out about 8 years ago.

"That's almost what I made at my first job! You're doing well!"

Fucking idiot doesn't know how inflation works, and couldn't understand why that 45k salary wasn't good enough to live decently well AND make the requisite payments on student loans.

[–]8008135__ 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They should be given a capped salary (say for example 50k-100k)

You're also clearly looking at this incorrectly. All employees should be paid more. 50k isn't an acceptable salary for middle America in 2019. Yet here we are thinking that's the middle only because wages have stagnated for so long that people have come to accept it.

If wages had kept up with productivity, average middle class salaries would be several hundreds of thousands.

Companies make WAY more in profits than you realize if you think exec pay should be reduced down to be more even with workers. On the contrary, there's so much more to go around.

[–]BH_actual1620 55 points56 points57 points 7 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

An entire generation? I'm assuming by that you mean a relatively small portion, right?

[–]PAYPAL_ME_DONATIONS 29 points30 points31 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's really mostly the squeakiest wheels, imo

[–]PigzNuggets 67 points68 points69 points 7 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

Honestly I’m getting sick and tired of older people shitting on the younger generations.

[–]nsummy 39 points40 points41 points 7 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

I don't know how old you are but I am 37 (which now that I type this does not sound young but I digress) making me at the older limits of the millennials. I always thought it was bullshit the bad rap that millenials got, thrown at us by people who never had to deal with student loans, expensive health insurance, or jobs with terrible benefits that still required a high level of education.

That said, I do truly feel worried about the younger generation coming up. They either bitch and moan (usually on twitter) about every single "injustice" or they have witnessed it and realized that bitching and moaning on twitter works. As a frame of reference, when I was entering college, GW Bush had just gotten elected. He lost the popular vote and slid into office based on Florida's wacky voting system. He was hated by half the country. 9/11 happened and we all came together, but once we got into Iraq and everyone realized it was a pointless war, he was hated even more. Still despite this, you could have a conversation with a Bush supporter, and maybe you would disagree, but its not like you were talking to a neo-nazi. Fast forward to Trump. If you voted for him, support even one thing he has done, or simply say he isn't a racist homophobe, you yourself will be branded as some sort of 1800s south will rise again racist, gay hater. Nothing is off limits, disagree with a man dressing as a woman and competing as a woman? You are transphobic. Say anything that acknowledges women are different then men? Toxic Masculinity. This is already too long of a post so I won't get started on me too and black lives matter.

Sadly this country (and I guess western world) has turned into the movie PCU.

[–]toastmaster124 25 points26 points27 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Here we witness the first ever millennial giving zoomers crap, ladies and gentlemen we are witnessing history.

[–]IllMembership 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

But it is true. If you don’t believe it, say you’re a republican and see if anyone treats you with sincerity.

[–]kainvictus 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

My parents would love me if I said that.

[–]huskerarob 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You must be a massive disappointment.

[–]IrishDrifter494 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The victim complex in this sub is unreal.

[–]8008135__ -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

If you don’t believe it, say you’re a republican and see if anyone treats you with sincerity.

lol

[–]robomotor1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Here in BC if I talk about Trump in a way that's not openly hostile I get labelled a Trump supporter. It's fucking clown world out there. Vancouver is where the whole Huawei extradition shit is going down and people blame Trump. Which I understand because the media lies and obfuscates constantly, but the wheels were in motion with the Iran sanctions and everything else that led to her extradition order years before he was in power. Clarifying that makes me a racist sympathiser somehow. It's bizarre.

[–]8008135__ -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not sure I see how that's relevant.

What does any of this have to do with me laughing at republicans wanting to be taken seriously by gen z?

[–]jarinatorman 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Youve really identified the problem but not the scope of it. Our society at large has figured out that lying and manipulation largely has no social consequence and it basically playing the game on easy mode. There is no law against falsehood or demeaning somebodies character to gain social/political ground. If you are caught in said lie just keep stacking lies until you win or more often UNTIL EVERYONE STOPS PAYING ATTENTION. Trump made it to the fucking presidency using this tactic. Weve figured out that at a very serious, fabric of our society level, there is no such thing as bad press.

[–]nicweed3999 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Look up defamation laws, you’re literally so wrong it hurts. There are literally laws in place that are there to stop people from lying about you to hurt your character or public opinion about you. The problem is always the proof, unless you can find a conclusive paper trail that shows that your opponent knew they were lying about you, you don’t have a case. It’s not that there’s no safeguards to stop people from spreading lies about you, it’s that those safeguards aren’t exactly that useful for people trying to get justice because of their requirements.

[–]The4ker 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

'bitch and moan about every single injustice'

Damn right I'm gunna bitch and moan when my rent is ~£4000 A MONTH. A. MONTH. NOT A YEAR, 1 MONTH

The usual argument against that is 'just move somewhere else then' but that's not really possible anymore, all the jobs for my field are in this area, I can't move abroad because the tax rates make expat living nearly impossible with the wage cuts you'll take, the world is about to fucking erupt into world war 3 and most of the time the countries lock down their borders unless you meet certain racial criteria

Damn fucking right I'm gunna complain about that, get your head out your arse

[–]grkirchhoff 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You are missing the crux of the post. Nobody is saying high rent shouldn't be complained about. The post above was saying that there are a lot of people who have complain about even little things that may or may not be frivolous.

[–]The4ker -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Then I think you're missing the crux of 95% of these social media posts, they're jokes, nobody in genz gives a fuck about frivolous stuff when most of them are just trying to get through highschool without killing themselves

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

What gold-plated mansion are you living in where your rent is £4000 a month?! Sincere question!

[–]The4ker -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

2bed apartment in canary wharf, that's it

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Okay but there are 2 bed apartments on rightmove for £1,400 so conceivably you could be paying less than half the rent you are currently - so do you get to complain that your rent is over twice what it could be?

[–]The4ker 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I work in banking software, in the firm I'm in we're expected to be on 10 minute onsite call along with everyone else in the firm, unfortunately this is becoming more and more common in recent months. This is extending to quants, traders, even runners, and we can't say no or we'll just get sacked.

[–]Nerevaryne 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean, being afraid of WW3 and having closed borders has been with us since 1945. Everybody complained about them but their complaints died at the end of the day since nobody kept track of them to publish them worldwide.

[–]fullofbones 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

"I'm 37! I'm not old!"

[–]so_banned1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

37 is not really that old

[–]fullofbones 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It's literally a quote from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

[–]so_banned1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

That’s literally an overrated movie that only autists still quote

[–]fullofbones 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well aren't you just a barrel of laughs. You take a break from punching old ladies and giving pinkeye to newborns just to ruin people's fun on Reddit? I'm honored!

[–]nsummy 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Old woman!" "Man!" haha forgot all about that part of the movie.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I am the younger generation and it really isn’t that greatly exaggerated although I feel many people will grow out of it. Never healthy to point fingers at groups though. This is a younger generational problem constructed from the older generations who thought it was a good idea to give the government power over education

[–]thorscope 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think it’s not so much people are more entitled, it’s that for the first time in history you have the ability to bitch and complain (or see people bitch and complain) whenever you want with a device you carry with you 24/7

[–]CrewmanNumber06 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

silly gubmint

educashun's for church

[–]Professor_Gushington 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not a new thing sadly, older generations have always shit on the younger ones, including all the oldies doing it now. They always feel it’s justified because of x,y,z...

[–]unseencs 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I hope you're right.

[–]papanojohns 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it mostly affects people that entered the workforce as the global economic crisis happened. Wages remained stagnant for more than a decade so this group is disproportionately affected.

[–]Honztastic 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm getting sick of a housing bubble raising the cost of rent across the nation to be untenable for an entire generation, while simulatenously not raising real wages since the 1970s.

And I'm sick of being called entitled to think a person working full time should be able to live in some fucking dignity

[–]feyrath 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

you can call them boomers. it's okay.

[–]JETSflyHIGHinSKY 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Found the boomer

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

U kinda sound like a grumpy old person saying: "those darn kids"

[–]outtathesky_fellapie 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

And? Those old people have a point. Young people skew left of the isle, take more risks, dont engage in activities that will benefit them late in life (planning for retirement, dont drink so much, get to bed earlier etc.) As you age, make a little more money, stop going out so often, you lean more to the right to keep more of that money you earned, to benefit you more in retirement.

Stereotypes exist for a reason. To write something off simply because its a stereotype is negligent on the part of the reader/listener.

[–]canitakemybraoffyetIm with HER 35 points36 points37 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

planning for retirement, dont drink so much, get to bed earlier etc.

Idk how much you know about young people, but these are actually all trends of the newest generation. They are way more concerned about retirement than "those old people" were and are saving drastically more. They are drinking and going out way less than previous generations and, yes, they are going to bed earlier, too.

[–]jweaver358 26 points27 points28 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Mostly because they can't afford not to, i might add.

[–]AndrewRawrRawr 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, it's such a weird comparison. Like sure the 401k participation rate of boomers is much higher than millennials today, but that's comparing apples to oranges. The average age at which millennials contributed to a workplace retirement plan was 24 compared to 33 for boomers. Millennials have less credit card debt, higher savings rates and a better understanding of the relationship between risk/return and the high cost of fees for actively managed funds compared to boomers when they were young. Millennials have lower rates of smoking, higher activity levels and better diets than similarly aged adults in the 1970s. Millennials majored in humanities at radically lower rates than boomers.

The whole YOLO, avocado toast, gender studies degree, working retail with no clue "how the real world works" is a strawman not based on any measurable picture of reality. Older generations criticizing their children as irresponsible might be mankind's first meme, but the reality has always been the kids will be alright.

[–]canitakemybraoffyetIm with HER 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Totally agreed, and Gen Z or whatever is doing all those things even more so than millennials. I really have no clue what /u/outtathesky_fellapie was talking about, almost every "stereotype" he listed is objectively false.

[–]Tylorw09 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The whole YOLO, avocado toast, gender studies degree, working retail with no clue "how the real world works" is a strawman not based on any measurable picture of reality. Older generations criticizing their children as irresponsible might be mankind's first meme, but the reality has always been the kids will be alright.

It’s Fox News propaganda working just as intended.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

He's not saying young people in general which sounds like is more what you're trying to say... he's saying this generation in particular... and this is what Socrates said about the youth of his days:

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

Point being, every generation thinks the youth in their particular time is particularly worse.

[–]unseencs -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I kind of do heh. But full disclosure I'm part of that lazy generation and had to fight hard to develop a better work ethic, which is still not where it should be.

[–]Equilibriator -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Don't ask you don't get :p

[–]B_ILL 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The squeaky wheel gets the grease........ or replaced.

[–]CrewmanNumber06 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

please sir, may I have another paycheck

I'll be good. I promise

[–]koffeccinna -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I started a new job and have tried subtly suggesting everyone take a look at their paycheck, then look at our bosses new house, new cars, and 10 year old that gets paid $100 to mow for half an hour. I'm looking at mine like it ain't bad for having just started, but I'm also in a cheap state and haven't moved out on my own yet. Is it wrong I'm seeing everyone else struggle to maintain a family while I'd just like to afford a single bedroom in a place I'm not worried about getting raped? It's not like I don't want everyone else to do better, but if they aren't listening to my suggestions then what, I'm not supposed to ask for what I feel are deserved raises?

Edit: lol yall probably love capitalism but bitch when others actually need to compete.

[–]guillemqv 81 points82 points83 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

They said: ‘You always tell us to stand up for what is right. If it means less pocket money or not going on holiday, we don’t mind. What matters to us is that when we grow up we want to be paid the same as a man for the same job.’ And just like that, my decision was made.”

A 7 and a 13 year old said that... yeah, of course, i'm gonna call bullshit on that.

[–]Can_Confirm_NoCensor 42 points43 points44 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly my thought. And who in the hell asks their 7 and 13 year old for career advice?

[–]Comrade_Jacob 12 points13 points14 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She said: "I've always told you to stand up for what is right. If that means less pocket money or not going on holiday, blame the patriarchy. What matters to me is that when you grow up, I want you to be paid the same as a man."

They said: "Sure, mom. Whatever. Can we go back to our video game now?"

[–]xuxe1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

BBC

standing firm

[–]ThSprtn117 22 points23 points24 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah damn you I thought I was going to be the first to make that wiener joke!

[–]swisperino 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

yea i love it when my big black cock stands firm

[–]fucktardskunch 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Cock fighting is vicious he's probably just relieved to be alive.

[–]bryanrobh 119 points120 points121 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I hope this cunt never gets promoted and even fired. Of course her name is Karen

[–]RealJyrone 22 points23 points24 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, I though it was a joke at first. I though they were going with the whole "Karen is acting entitled" joke.

[–]Senpai59210 139 points140 points141 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

tHe wAgE gAp lol

[–]Canisluous1558 21 points22 points23 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The wage gap myth is a mass psychosis.

[–]Kryptosis 21 points22 points23 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

She has those red flag eyes.

I feel bad for people who can't contain the insanity within their souls to the point that it blares through their eyes.

[–]Can_Confirm_NoCensor 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Constantly glossed over, usually one lazy dog roaming a different direction; yup she's got the crazy eyes that one.

[–]DrunkWino 46 points47 points48 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Funny how even the most woke crowd suddenly flip when their money gets involved

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points37 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's because it was never about the ethics, it was always about the money or the access to it .

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points29 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Of course, her name is Karen. Always Karen.

[–][deleted] 88 points89 points90 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

But still running a cucked article on their homepage sympathising with her.

The editors of BBC News are now a bunch of crazy, bitter feminists and they’re trying to put pressure on management.

Also mentioned in their cucked article is how she is a single mother - apparently we’re meant to sympathise with her because of this. All that means from a pay perspective is that she’s probably going to work less hours and expect the same pay as her male counterpart.

[–]giverous 27 points28 points29 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

But that story was on the Guardian, not the BBC.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

BBC had one too.

[–]giverous 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Weird, I checked their homepage as you mentioned and couldn't see it. Got a link?

edit never mind, found it and it mentions nothing about the single mum angle, just the story itself. I think you got a bit mixed up mate. Here's the BBC story for anyone interested...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48364081

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The Guardian one had the single mum angle, maybe that’s where I got it from

[–]DeafDarrow 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Lucky dude. Dodged a bullet there!

[–]Maikhist 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

They said: ‘You always tell us to stand up for what is right. If it means less pocket money or not going on holiday, we don’t mind. What matters to us is that when we grow up we want to be paid the same as a man for the same job.’ And just like that, my decision was made.”

That’s a hella verbose seven year old

[–]EricAllonde[S] 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She forgot to end with, "And that child's name? Albert Einstein."

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

/r/wokekids

[–]Vault_0_dweller 21 points22 points23 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry they don't think you just starting amounts to years of experience, loyalty, and quarterly raises. The fuck.

[–]Soyboy- 53 points54 points55 points 7 years ago* (30 children) | Copy Link

She turned the job down because of this shit - it's unbelievable the entitled attitude.

Single mother too - think we all know what the kid probably looks like.

Edit: Jesus Christ, these responses. 'errbody racist yo! Remember, if only you can hear the 'dogwhistle' then maybe you're the dog?

[+]Turtle08atwork -60 points-59 points-58 points 7 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

Jesus dude. I mean, she rightfully had pass denied and all but I don't think this is some sort of racist comment tolerating subreddit.

[–]SpunkyLM 40 points41 points42 points 7 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

Where was the racism in that exactly?

[+]Jacina -39 points-38 points-37 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Insinuating she's black, which would be rarish in the UK? I think he's insinuating that her kids probably are the same as her, entitled, with that hands on hip pose...

Its easy to see racism in everything, just look at tumblr

[–]SpunkyLM 36 points37 points38 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t even read it to see she was black. Without that context, I can’t see any racism. It would show bias if I thought it was racist by reading the same statement and ominous to a different conclusion based on that

[–]fortyandablunt6661 points 7 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I didn’t even read it to see she was black.

Who is black? The chick in the article is white, no?

[–]Bereft13 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

exactly there's no one black but when he said "think we all know what the kid probably looks like" about the single mother these ppl decided it was about race

[–]PaigeTheGreat1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

YOU insinuated that.

Found the racist.

[–]Jacina 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, thats what I get for trying to explain how the downvoted to hell guy saw racism O.O... Because he sees it everywhere, just like tumblr does it as well, waiting to pounce on racists and be the goid guy. But some people obviously don't quite read it all...

[–]AndrewSimm 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeh, probably read the first part of your comment and thought you were the same person and just downvoted and moved on hah.

[–]Turtle08atwork -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My comment history shows that I don't see it everywhere.

[+]Turtle08atwork -42 points-41 points-40 points 7 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

"think we all know what the kid probably looks like."

Unless you read something much different there, it seems to be impying that the child is mixed race. If you read some other implication in that sentence I would be interested in hearing it.

[–]SpunkyLM 33 points34 points35 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Entitled, bratty... going the other way, complete chav. I think it says more about us how we interpret an innocuous statement

[+]Turtle08atwork -20 points-19 points-18 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Well maybe he misspoke because those would seem to fall under how the child acts, not how the child looks.

[–]SpunkyLM 24 points25 points26 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

But you can look like the type of person to behave in a certain manner (I.e. the “get me the manager” hair style)

[–]Turtle08atwork -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think that's a bit of a reach but thanks for showing me how it read to you. Cheers.

[–]CaptainDiptoad 14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Stfu karen

[–]Enverex 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, they didn't misspeak. They were referring to the kid growing up to be a little shit. You were the one that made this about race.

[–]skant153 17 points18 points19 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Pretty racist of you to assume all children of single mothers are black. I personally didn't get his comment until you speed your blatant racism.

[+]Turtle08atwork -11 points-10 points-9 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

lol no. I don't assume that. When an adult tries to imply something vague about the looks of a child, based off an article about a mothers pay dispute with her employer, I feared the worst of his intentions. If I was wrong I am sorry.

And I never said they were black. You assumed that. I said mixed race.

[–]outtathesky_fellapie 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I read it as we know how that child will act when we see them in public. As the non-racist crowd would point out, your interpretation is a reflection of what is inside of you mane.

[–]Turtle08atwork 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

agreed, what was inside was low expectations of people who leave vague comments about what a child would look like.

[–]outtathesky_fellapie -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You are looking for issues. Thats a sad way to live. As long as that is your motor, it is all you will see.

[–]Turtle08atwork -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Definitely don't live that way, my comment history shows I rarely engage in issues.

[–]MyNameIsSushi 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What if he's black and he actually meant that the kid is white?

Nevermind the fact that he obviously meant that the kid is also bratty etc. but nice of you to show us who the real racist is.

[–]monkeyapesc 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I thought he was referring to fetal alcohol syndrome.

[–]rg90184 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I assumed crack baby, but along the same lines lol.

[–]Turtle08atwork 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

lmfaooo. Fair point.

[–]PM_ME_DEM_TEDDIES1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I know multiple people (of both sexes) doing the same job as me and I'm making $15,000 more. It's not about gender or experience, it's about negotiating skills.

[–]monkeyboi08 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. My friend has a few months more experience than me, but he said he was quitting unless he got a huge raise. He applied somewhere else, got a job offer, then our company finally gave in. He got a massive raise, around $20,000 out of it.

[–]MobiusCube 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

/r/FuckYouKaren

[–]snafubarr 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Came here for this

[–]Cannedbran 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

“The bbc is standing firm.” No comment.

[–]ThSprtn117 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"The BBC is standing firm"

[–]TonyTheTerrible 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

she says it right there when she addresses it as "equal pay". not fair pay, which would factor in things like experience and adeptness... equal.

im all for fair wages and equal pay to equally qualified persons regardless of gender/ethnicity but then you get dolts like her en masse who clearly dont understand what the fight for fair wages means and do far more harm than good for the cause.

[–]monkeyboi08 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

EQUAL PAY

I want to make as much money as the CEO of my company.

[–]bigpopperwopper 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

jfc her little story about talking to kids about it should be in r/Wokekids

[–]careofKnives 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

“You’re gonna make the same if you do as good a job.”

[–]EricAllonde[S] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL, yes! Didn't feminists hate that comment, and for good reason.

[–]TrueRadicalDreamer 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

TIL that I make as much as a deputy director for the British Broadcasting Company, which reaches millions of people each day, doing a few hours of shitty tech support at a bum-fuck nowhere military base.

What the actual fuck, lol.

[–]Devvny 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What a stupid fucking bitch

[–]leova 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

good!
i hope that bitch ends up in retail or fastfood

[–]Bumfjghter 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If my name was Karen, I would legally change that shit so quick. I mean... I’m a guy but, if I were a lady I’d still change it super fast

[–]LegacyAccountComprom 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Still a bunch of Big Beta Cucks after they fired Jeremy Clarkson

[–]TheJoystiicks 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And of course her name is Karen. That poor, poor manager

[–]thegreatestajax 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuckin' Karen...

[–]AssholeEmbargo 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

https://fee.org/articles/harvard-study-gender-pay-gap-explained-entirely-by-work-choices-of-men-and-women/

[–]saviour117 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Even her name is “Karen” ffs

[–]ww2colorizations 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuckin Karen

[–]Pilotboi 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

r/FuckYouKaren

[–]Haa103 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

OMG can't believe thats a sub. I love reddit more and more everyday.

[–]The_Pringles_Man 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What frustrates me is that people like 'Karen' here seem to assume that their pay is lower because they're female. I wonder if Karen actually believes this - or if she just recognises that actually, in the current climate, it's quite profitable for her to scream about equal pay for women etc and there's a good chance nobody will shut her down for fear of being labelled sexist.

It is not at all uncommon to be offered different pay based on experience. If I run a garage, repairing cars and Mr Smith approaches asking for a job - he has 12 years experience fixing cars and several fantastic references, and on the same day Miss Bloggs approaches asking for a job - she has 6 months experience in the role and just one fantastic reference - and I opt to take both on, why would I pay them the same? Mr Smith is clearly a more valuable acquisition to me than Miss Bloggs.

In my own work (Police) there is a pay progression over a 7 year period to reflect the value placed upon experience. Someone with 1 years experience gets paid around £22,000 and someone with 7 years gets paid £39,000 - gender isn't the factor - it's experience.

​

​

“As a single mother I decided to discuss the dilemma with my two daughters who are 13 and seven."

I'm not sure I'd take career advice from two children but whatever.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Of course he did. This pay gap nonsense is really starting to get annoying.

[–]nauticaldisaster95 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She went to her 13 and 7 year old daughters for advice. Enough said.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

The BBC is such a scam...taxpayer-funded propaganda. I feel bad for the British people.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points24 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Imagine living in a country where you have to buy a license just for the privilege of being lied to

[–]maximun_vader 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

and a licence to watch porn.

[–]MastarQueef 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but TV with no adverts, an hour long episode is actually an hour long and not 40 minutes with four 5 minute advertising breaks. We aren’t paying to be lied to, we’re paying to not watch adverts the same way you’d buy the premium version of an app on your phone to get rid of adverts..

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

We have to pay a yearly tax even if we don't watch their shitty tv shows

[–]HowObvious 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What? No you dont?

If you dont watch live tv you dont have to buy a TV license.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I have a tv, i only watch shit on E4 sometimes, not bbc

[–]Rum-King -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No you don’t at all.

[–]Rum-King 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s doesn’t get money from tax, at least not it’s vast majority. It gets it from a TV license, which you can choose not to pay as long as you can prove you don’t watch live broadcasted TV.

I have never paid a TV license as I simply don’t watch anything other than Netflix and Amazon Prime. Anything worth watching on U.K. TV is on there.

[–]Shotty98 -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol

[+]noiserr1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

In the world where Fox News exists, BBC is beyond reproach.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Compared to CNN and BBC, Fox news is miles better.

[+]noiserr1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

That's like saying diarrhea is better than sex.

[–]skant153 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Fox news is bad because cnn told you so?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Probably MSNBC, that is the equivalent of sex, with a dead rotting animal.

[–]skant153 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Now that's offensive to dead rotting animals everywhere. Just say it's like sex with Rachel maddcow

[–]rg90184 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ouch. Gonna need some aloe on that.

[–]MegaManZer0 -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry you got bombarded by Faux News watchers. Have a single upvote to mitigate things a little.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Sandy toksvig or however you spell her name was ataome feminist yoke a few months back and she being all hiumble and shit saying how lucky she was to have money bla bla bla and then threw in. Oh I'm also on only a 1/4 of what Stephen fry used to get for presenting QI.

Beyotch, he was on the show for fucking years and you're bitching that you make the same as Alan Davies whose not a presenter on the show,if it wasn't for Davies the show would have been cancelled years ago ya fuckhead

[–]majaka1234 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Wut

[–]phhhrrree 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He's having a stroke but he's actually talking sense.

Stephen Fry, a very famous and in demand actor was the presenter of a TV show in the UK for 13 seasons, and his personality was probably the biggest reason for its success.

He left the show and Sandi Toksvig a realtive unknown took over as presenter, and although it's nowhere near as enjoyable as it was, she's done a pretty ok job. She's like the Trevor Noah to his John Stewart.

But she says she expected the same pay, and what's worse is she is a founder of the Women's Equality Party in the UK, which stands in national elections. Kind of hard to vote for them when this is their idea of pay equality.

[–]peterqub 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Porn has ruined BBC for me

[–]is-numberfive 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

since when big black cocks have managers?

[–]Entinu 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Somewhat related: every payday, I ask the supervisor for my check (because supervisor keeps checks of my type of coworkers in her desk per policy of company) and she says that I work for free (obvs joke before you folks get pissy) and my usual response is "we've talked about this. that's called slavery and is illegal....unless you want to pay me some other way". It's all in good fun and our office makes sexual jokes a lot. That is how you get pay equality....and a slap upside the head.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Your ass is waiting to get #poundmetoo’d, stop that shit

[–]Entinu 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You're not my supervisor!

[–]Qwarked 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Loving how they put the BbC’s rational response at the very end.

[–]flyfisher4ever 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Twat

[–]HKoftheForrest 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Now to change their racist hiring policy and stop manipulating the news in racist ways and they'll be on their way to being a news broadcasting company.

[–]DontFartInTheShower 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But then they will go on to promote the same anti-masculine bullshit they have been peddling for years. Part of me hoped they would get reamed by what they have been promoting.

[–]DAKSouth 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I read BBC as something different and was very confused.

[–]tenbuckscye 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Of course her name is Karen...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I love that the article said that Karen made up her mind based on the advice of a 7 year old and a 13 year old.

LMAO

[–]Kalvash 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So this women just torpedoed her career over an imagined injustice? wow

[–]0rangemanbwad 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They cry for "equality" but they never said anything about earning it,

[–]jbslol 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Is her name really Karen? lol

[–]gravekeepersven 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Damn Karen get it together

[–]fow06 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow, no one resigned that’s weird

[–]PimpTears007 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s ironic. The hard leftist channel that have been the prime movers in the all white males are bad by virtue of their gender and skin colour, are now being friendly fired by their own. It kind of makes sense that such a thing would take place where logic and reasoning are probably seen as just another tool for white supremacists.

[–]banelicious 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

As a single mother I decided to discuss the dilemma with my two daughters who are 13 and seven. [...]

“They said: ‘You always tell us to stand up for what is right. If it means less pocket money or not going on holiday, we don’t mind. What matters to us is that when we grow up we want to be paid the same as a man for the same job.’

r/ThatHappened

[–]Momisch420 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Haha bbc

[–]lUrKEDallAl0ng 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Her name is fucking Karen. FUCKING KAREN REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[–]DV_Jellyfish -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I thought the big black cook always stood firm.

[–]Wursticles 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

the big black cook

Not sure I want to eat what he's dishing out

[–]DV_Jellyfish -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

His thick 12in weiner of course.

[+]natephant -12 points-11 points-10 points 7 years ago (81 children) | Copy Link

My only problem with this is that the pay should be commensurate with the position. Idgaf if you’re getting newly promoted to this position or if you’ve held it for 14 years at another company...

If I work at the register of a super market and get promoted to supervisor of the meat department... I should get paid at the level of a supervisor of the meat department... if I worked at a supervisor of the meat department for 10 years, I expect to get paid at the level of a supervisor of the meat department plus whatever BS 5% merit raise I get each year.

I shouldn’t get offered half the salary because I have less experience... if I’m fit for the job, I should be fit for the salary as well. If I’m not the best fit for the job... then you should hire someone else to begin with.

[–]AmazingSully 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

I expect to get paid at the level of a supervisor of the meat department plus whatever BS 5% merit raise I get each year.

Also

I shouldn’t get offered half the salary because I have less experience

You do realise these are contradictory right? You're literally talking about how you expect to get your raise for each year of experience, but also think someone with less experience shouldn't get paid less...

[–]natephant -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

No I mean if 2 people are offered the same position the pay should be the same. Regardless of if one person has ‘more experience’.

Verses holding that position in a company for several years.

[–]David7738 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

That doesn’t make any sense. In most jobs people with more experience are significantly better at the job. That might not be true for trivial shit but you talk about high skill jobs, even medium skill jobs, then this is a completely stupid idea.

A software developer with 20 years experience should get paid the same as one just out of college? Good fucking luck.

[–]LastNightsWoes 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You’re missing the point. I think what nate is trying to say is, we should all be cashiers and or meat managers... or some shit.

[–]natephant -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

If a senior software engineer applies to another company as a junior software engineer they should expect the same responsibility and pay as a junior

[–]David7738 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

Lol so you’re cool paying people with more experience more as long as we assign some arbitrarily different title to their job?

They don’t have a qualifier for every year of experience. You’re only a junior dev for like 2 years unless you’re really rough at it. Most devs spend most of their career as “Senior software devs/engineers” because it only takes like 5-8 years to be qualified for that.

[–]natephant -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

Again.. a junior designer who has been working for 2 years at the company is understandably making more than one who was hired today.. the issue at hand is 2 people starting the same job, at the same company, on the same day.

[–]David7738 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

That’s completely dumb. 15 years experience writing code for google makes you worth more to Apple than the guy with two years experience applying to the same job. Apple values them differently, the two people value themselves differently, and their skill levels are different. Maybe Apple hires both of them but you bet your ass they’re starting at different salaries. They’re worth different salaries. The same way Lebron James is worth more than Rodney Hood.

[–]natephant -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

And you can bet your ass that they would be hired to different positions.

[–]David7738 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

So as long as their positions have arbitrarily different titles you’re happy with the pay difference?

Engineer 2 vs engineer 3? Lol then what the duck is the difference? You’re just insisting on the number?

[–]lordkabal261 points 7 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Only one has more real world work experience in the field. That experience is worth a higher pay rate. If you don't like it, feel free to start your own business, see how well it works out trying to pay someone who has years of experience the same as someone just starting in the field. I can already tell you that it won't go as you think it should. The person with the experience will laugh in your face. Peoples time is VALUABLE. Job experience is more valuable than a college degree.

[–]natephant 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

My business endeavors have been successful enough. Thanks for your encouragement.

And again I’m not saying experience isn’t valuable. I’m saying someone with experience should be put into a position that reflects that. And if they make the choice to seek out a supervisor position when they have the experience to be a manager... I’m not going to pay them what I’d pay a manager to do the job of a supervisor.

[–]lordkabal261 points 7 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

But you would pay them more than a person just being promoted to a supervisor position, if you don't they'll just take their experience and tell you to fuck off.

[–]abrahamhands 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

But what about actual skill in that position and experience? That's like saying all Quarterbacks in the NFL should get paid the same no matter how good they are, or if they are a veteran to the league/team.

[–]natephant 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

No that’s not like saying that at all.

[–]abrahamhands 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

How isn't it? You say same position=same pay

[–]natephant 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Show me a team that has 2 starting QBs, that both started on the same day.

Different teams are different companies with different pay structures... and each team only has 1 starting QB. It isn’t a comparable analogy.

We are talking about a company that has 2 openings for the same exact job. And 2 people who got those jobs and started on the same exact day being paid differently.

This isn’t even, hey it’s the end of the years and based on your yearly evaluation person A is getting a 5% raise (the max at most companies) but person B is only getting a 3% raise.

We are talking day 1 same position, same responsibilities, same company.

[–]lordkabal261 points 7 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

If someone has more job experience they absolutely DO deserve to be paid for what their experience is worth. Otherwise what incentive do they have to take the job? None at all.

[–]natephant 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea that’s why they deserve to be promoted to a higher position, or apply to one at another company. If I’ve been a supervisor for 7 years and I’m not happy because I haven’t moved to management at my company... I start applying to a management position at other companies. Not go to another company as a supervisor and get paid more as another supervisor.

[–]majaka1234 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (41 children) | Copy Link

Well sounds like you'd be a great fit for the deli department if you can't calculate 10 years of 5% pay increases.

[+]natephant -9 points-8 points-7 points 7 years ago (40 children) | Copy Link

And it sounds like you’re mentally retarded if you don’t understand that there’s a difference in someone earning more than you due to yearly merit increases, and someone who is offered the same position as you, on the same day, at a higher rate.

[–]David7738 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

You mean because they have more experience and will be better at the job?

Let’s say you’re designing a car and you need to hire an engineer. Do you want the one fresh out of college or the one that’s been designing cars for 30 years? Which one do you think is a more valuable employee?

[–]natephant -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

Wanting a more experienced person isn’t what’s at issue here.

If I’m hiring an experienced engineer I’m going to hire him on as a senior engineer, if I’m hiring a fresh graduate I’m going to hire him on as a junior. I’m not going to hire both of them to the same role, with the same responsibilities, but pay 1 more that the other.

[–]David7738 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Most senior engineering jobs are roughly 5-8+ years of experience. You know the difference between a senior engineer with 6 years of experience vs one with 25? They don’t have a new title for every year of experience.

If you’re as good as someone with 25 years experience at 6 years and you can prove it then you probably won’t have a hard time getting paid the same. But you aren’t. No one is.

Kyler Murray has literally the exact same job as Tom Brady, down to the letter. Should he get paid the same?

[–]natephant -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Wow... every word you just said is wrong.

Kyler Murray doesn’t have the exact same job as Tom Brady... he has the same position... at a different company. Different companies have different pay scales, and even structure their roles differently.. we aren’t talking about the pay difference of a senior engineer at google, vs one at Apple.

Also when it comes to senior engineering roles at a company.. there are actually positions that will say (6-8) years, and (10-12) years... but again. Most people in a senior position would look to move forward, into management or go to another company to gain a pay increase. And to keep with the example of what is at issue in the post, if a senior engineer left his company and took a job as a mid level engineer with another company, and a junior engineer likewise gets promoted to mid level, those 2 individuals should have the same responsibilities, and pay. I understand that doesn’t happen. My entire point is that’s what’s BS about the corporate culture.

[–]David7738 -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There is plenty of BS with corporate culture, but paying people based on their skill and experience isn’t one of them.

People with less experience deserve to be paid less unless they can demonstrate they’re exactly as effective as someone with more experience.

[–]TheWhiteUrkle 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

You're REALLY confused here

[–]natephant -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I’m really not.

[–]TheWhiteUrkle 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

It looks like a bunch of people are telling you that and you still think it's everyone else misunderstanding?

[–]natephant -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

A bunch of people who will never hold a position like this, and have no understanding of the issue who just want to re enforce their hatred of women, on a sub that has just turned into a women bashing sub... on a post that isn’t even a pussypass denial.

Sorry but if I’m looking to fill a supervisor position that’s going to have 7 direct reports, and someone applies who is overqualified, and has experience managing several supervisors... I’m not going to pay him more to only manage 7 direct reports. If I had an opening for a more suitable position I would consider him for that. But having 2 people who do exactly the same thing, and have exactly the same time in the company make different amounts is stupid...

[–]majaka1234 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Multi start up founder and employer here.

You're full of shit and I'd fire someone like you and internally promote in an instant.

It's hilarious because in different instances you're saying something completely different. Definitely middle management material

[–]TheWhiteUrkle -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's not even the topic of the conversation... that's just where you keep randomly going. It's not short being over qualified. It's about the level of work that individual cash produce and what theft bring to the table. 9 times out of 10 the person with more experience will do everything better than someone new.

Besides, this is totally suitable for this sub. You're just a butthurt sissy crying over people making fun of chicks that try to take advantage of the current political climate and get made to look like fools. Get over it.

[–]majaka1234 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

So you're going to hire a senior engineer with zero domain knowledge and pay them the same as your other senior engineer who literally has worked for you for 10 years, built the system they maintain and has proven their worth?

Weird flex but okay.

[–]natephant -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

Great way to prove you didn’t actually understand anything I just said. If I have a senior engineer who’s worked for me for ten years they would not be making the same as a day 1 senior.

[–]majaka1234 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Idgaf if you’re getting newly promoted to this position or if you’ve held it for 14 years at another company...

Maybe you should revise what you said then because if you're saying you wouldn't pay someone with years of additional experience the same as someone in the same position who has just arrived then.... you're agreeing with what everyone else is saying but still throwing out names like an 11 year old.

[–]natephant -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

I’m saying I i have 2 supervisor positions open, and I promote someone from in house to fill one of those, they are going to get the same rate as someone hired from the outside to do that job... even if that person was a supervisor at another company, or hell, even a manger. I’m not going to pay someone manager pay, to do a supervisor job. If they have 14 years of experience, they should look for a position that reflects that.

[–]majaka1234 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Great way to get useless talent.

[–]EricAllonde[S] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

and someone who is offered the same position as you, on the same day, at a higher rate.

That's NOT what happened here, though.

She's comparing her starting salary to the wage of the guy she's replacing, after he'd been doing the job for 4 years.

She wants to skip the whole "gain experience, learn the skills, master the job, get results and earn pay rises by doing so" part and just have the extra pay handed to her on day 1 for doing nothing.

[–]natephant 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

“Despite being awarded the same job, on the same day, after the same board, during the same recruitment process, BBC News asked me to accept a considerably lower salary than my male counterpart. A lot less,”

Doesn’t sound like she’s talking about the person she’s replacing... it sounds like she’s stating they hired 2 people and paid one more.

[–]EricAllonde[S] 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

My mistake then. But he still has more relevant experience than her:

"Roger has worked at or above this level for several years whereas Karen was offered this role as a promotion, with a significant pay increase. We think most people would understand that these factors would result in some difference between their individual pay."

Paying him more is entirely justified in this case.

[–]natephant -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

“At or above this level” — if it was with the same company that essentially means a demotion. So he wasn’t satisfactory at a higher role, so they move him down to a lower role but let him keep the pay.

[–]EricAllonde[S] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL, you're really grasping at straws now, feminist!

Maybe he was managing another department which was eliminated through restructuring. He wasn't made redundant, which suggests they consider him a valuable employee worth retaining.

Naturally they are going to look for another position for him, so if a suitable management role comes up they'll move him into it, even if it's less senior than his previous role. Since he's been doing similar work for several years he's naturally going to earn more than a newbie just promoted up to that level for the first time.

[–]majaka1234 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Nope. I absolutely get the difference.

You're the one who seems to have issues.

Have you ever worked in a senior position in a company?

Have you ever been responsible for hiring decisions?

Were you successfully able to retain talent by paying new staff with zero specific experience more than your proven staff who have shown loyalty and expertise over many years?

I already know the answer to this but I'd love to hear your rebuttal since I'm obviously a retard.

[–]natephant -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes I have, and yes I have, and the way you retain staff is by moving them to hire positions within the company.

I would never have a person whose never had any direct reports before ever hold the same position as someone who’s had 12 years as a manager.

You absolutely don’t get the difference.

[–]majaka1234 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh yes, I absolutely don't get the difference - that's why I said you shouldn't pay the same person with far more actual experience over a newbie who has just arrived to the same position and is "equal" on paper.

Well done.

[–]JasperRoust1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

My issue with your position is you look at experience in a vacuum.

Experience correlates to doing the job faster and better for example

[–]natephant 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

And that’s why most jobs have varied levels with different roles and responsibilities.

[–]JasperRoust1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Positions aren't ordained by universal law.

If I need a landscaper, I'm going to pay the 40 year veteran more than the 15 year old kid.

[–]natephant -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

We aren’t talking about contracted one off jobs.

We are talking about a company that has 2 positions open for the same exact role.

[–]JasperRoust1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

This isn't a burger flipping job. The higher up positions don't have a fixed list of duties. That's exactly why most jobs above cleaning toilets and flipping burgers are negotiable.

[–]natephant 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes higher up jobs absolutely have a fixed list of duties and responsibilities.

[–]Letmethrowthisaway321 points 7 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Are they doing the same exact job?

[–]EricAllonde[S] 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The guy with 4 years experience is almost certainly doing the job much better than the woman who was going to start doing it for the first time.

[–]Letmethrowthisaway321 points 7 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

If the newly promoted employee performed at the same level as the seasoned employee, would it be fine to pay her at the same rate?

[–]EricAllonde[S] 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She isn't going to perform as well as the experienced guy on her first day.

But if she learns quickly and matches his performance after a shorter period of time than the 4 years it took him, then she can make a strong argument for a raise to match his salary.

It's something she should be careful about, though. People often overestimate their own performance on the job. I've had a lot of employees over the years, including a lot of salespeople, and there were several like that who'd be all impatient and demand to be paid more when their performance really didn't warrant it.

With salespeople performance is easy to measure, but you can measure it in other jobs too. Like the millennial who demanded a $10k raise just after her sloppy work caused a fuckup which cost us $5k. That was the easiest, "No, and furthermore you're fired" I ever had to do.

More commonly when they asked I'd say, "No, because..." and explain why their performance wasn't actually equal yet to the more experienced employees they were using as salary benchmarks. Often they'd then sulk, leave for another job and repeat the whole process over again. That type of bad attitude can really damage a career.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Lol so this is where neckbeard ISIS declares it's fatwas huh.

[–]EricAllonde[S] 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Found the triggered feminist landwhale.

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

How's always being the victim in every situation going? Sadly?

Cry forever bitchboy.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey....just...🤫

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