Today i got my family to sit down and watch the red pill. They all cried. To say the least, no one in my family is a feminist anymore. #MRA

[–]truthenragesyou 292 points293 points294 points 9 years ago (74 children) | Copy Link

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[–]testmypatience 63 points64 points65 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The Red Pill is an old concept that goes back to Matrix movie days and just means to take objective truth without blinders on anymore. It can be and is applied in many various subject fields. It goes back before Matrix days in concept to a drink that is red or blue.

Douglas Hofstadter's 1979 book Gödel, Escher, Bach features a pair of characters who "push-into" and "pop-out of" the two-dimensional world of Escher prints. The way they do this is to drink from a blue or a red phial.[11] A further reference could be taken later in the story when the pair encounter a paradox during which "The System crashed". Hofstadter cites Lewis Carroll as a strong influence on the book (the front cover of the book has a line that says that the book is "in the spirit of Lewis Carroll".) The "push-into" and "pop-out of" phials are reminiscent of the Alice in Wonderland "drink me" and "eat me" potion and cake, which shrink and grow Alice. The Matrix very clearly references Alice in Wonderland with the "white rabbit" and the "down the rabbit hole" phrases.

More on wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill#G.C3.B6del.2C_Escher.2C_Bach

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Hulu has it. YouTube as well, but there you have to pay for the rental.

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Bettering youself by who's estimation?

Women.

All for the sole benefit of and on behalf of a woman's esteem.

The red pill philosophy is simply basic traditionalism stripped of the value of family bonding or building.

MGTOW improve themselves for themselves.

Red pill improve themselves for women.

When a women tells both to jump - only one will ask how high and then lick his wounds with a notch on his bed post - as if that's important!

Mensrights is about acquiring rights where men don't have any in our society. Men are angry because they aren't able to see their children and the TRP solution is bettering yourself so you can seduce women? How the hell does that get a father to see his kids? How the hell does food consumption get him shared parenting? How does educating himself get him an unbiased divorce settlement?

[–]cuteman 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Bettering youself by who's estimation?

Your own.

Women.

That's probably why they constantly state, "you don't need her, you've got you"

All for the sole benefit of and on behalf of a woman's esteem.

Women are a byproduct

The red pill philosophy is simply basic traditionalism stripped of the value of family bonding or building.

Not really. Maybe traditional gender roles if anything but more biological than cultural.

MGTOW improve themselves for themselves.

While suggesting that men build an island around themselves.

TRP is about improving yourself and as a byproduct you have more success in social situations especially with women.

Red pill improve themselves for women.

Again, it's a byproduct, not the primary goal.

When a women tells both to jump - only one will ask how high and then lick his wounds with a notch on his bed post - as if that's important!

Or move on to the next because who wants to be treated like that?

Mensrights is about acquiring rights where men don't have any in our society. Men are angry because they aren't able to see their children and the TRP solution is bettering yourself so you can seduce women? How the hell does that get a father to see his kids? How the hell does food consumption get him shared parenting? How does educating himself get him an unbiased divorce settlement?

Again, you misunderstand. It's not about seducing women. It's about becoming a better you so you don't need to seduce anyone.

Lift. Eat right. Better yourself. Develop hobbies.

Notice how none of those involves seducing women or doing it because of women?

But once you practice those disciplines, if you choose, you have an advantage if you do want to pursue a woman or women.

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The fact that you see no difference between mens issues and hate IS the issue.

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Here it is for free. I would suggest you rent it to support the project though.

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Feminism has tore my family apart. I am very angry. So much in anger that I am willing to physically assault any woman that identifies as a feminist. But I don't. I keep it bottled most of the time.

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where people are seen as people and not just methods of production.

Is that an actual argument? Please explain it if it is, because it seems like a bunch of subjective ideals over objective realism.

assloads of cases where the only issue isn't "Abortion is murder"

Such as? Did the baby have a gun and so the doctors killed it in self defense? Did the baby try to suck them into the womb where it could feast on their flesh in the coming weeks? Did the baby decide to roam about the mother's body outside of the womb area like a ball pit?

And making it illegal doesn't stop people from doing it it just makes them do it more unsafely which is also bad for society.

Let's let people do bad things because it let's them be more safe doing so? I'm sorry but I'm not ok with the idea of cops being cool with a man killing his family and not trying to raid the house to take him out because his safety matters above all the other people's lives. Yea, that makes sense. /s

I'm totaly ok with murders accidently killing themselves in the process of murdering someone, especially a child. If someone murders a child and then right after dies from some complication of the murder, that would be excellent instant karma.

Please get valid arguments before you decide to continue to live so that the rest of humanity doesn't have to deal with this insanity you will push on them.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]testmypatience 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Hahaha! Pretty sure treating people not as means of production is a valid argument.

Saying it is does not make it so. The premise of "treating people ... as means of production" is false which destroys the actual argument's following conclusions.

I dunno what "objective realism" you're referring to other than your belief that capitalism is great and companies shouldn't have to pay for anything other than production.

If you don't earn a thing you don't get to claim you get that thing you did not earn. That is objectively realistic.

You have no idea what abortion is like if you're demonizing all people that have had abortions as "murderers."

Oh, you know my life more than I do? Oh, that makes sense. /s

I know there's not any room for questioning this in your worldview but it's utterly childish to just say "abortion is murder, I don't care if you die."

Not childish at all to be ok with people that murder children to die at their own hand as karmic retribution/penance for their murdering of a child.

Talk about subjective ideals over objective realism.

This paired with a conversation about abortion and "moral relativity" which is by definition subjective, NOT objective. When you can change the status of a baby inside the womb on legal command, that is by default a subjective action and not an objective one that makes it so that the baby is considered a baby regardless of if the mother wants it to be born or aborted.

A woman going to the abortion clinic in a cab to get an abortion and the cab gets hit by someone else. The baby dies and the mother lives. The mother is upset and so now changes her mind about the baby being a baby and now claims to have wanted it. The person that hit the cab and killed the baby in the process is now charged with killing that baby just as you would be charged with killing an adult in a car if you hit and killed them.

That is completely subjective and not at all objective. That is purely driven on a person's determination of what they want and that is by definition subjective as it is up to the person's whims and will to define a thing a certain way just as they would if they were to be asked if they think pizza is a good food or not.

[–]quackquackoopz 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

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I'll give my own personal experience (I know, anecdotes and all).

I have two children. I'm a computer networking professional, their mother has a Master's in Advanced Mathematics (not math ed). Our kids have a LOT of exposure and influence to the STEM side of things. Son is almost a carbon copy of me. Loves computers and technical things. Daughter? While she's aware of that stuff, and is capable, isn't really interested. She loves dance, drama, more traditionally "girly" things. We're trying to influence her towards something STEM, as college is near for her.

Exposure and influence don't trump biology. We've been preferring girls for 30 years in Education. We've got over 60% female in our colleges and Universities. Massive amounts of scholarships and preferences for girls, and they still choose Humanities, Liberal Arts, "Women's Studies".

Our society has been a huge experiment in Feminist dogma for 40+ years. It has obviously failed.

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What factor is largest will be dependent on a number of things.

Heredity is one (that is, the predispositions and temperament one is born with), and gender will have a massive influence on that. Sex differences in interest can be detected at one day old, when more girls stare longer at human faces, and more boys stare longer at mechanical objects.

Prenatal testosterone and testosterone levels at birth predict masculine styles of play throughout childhood in both boys and girls. This can be observed in other species, including primates. Juvenile rhesus monkeys, when given a selection of toys (trucks, plushies, etc) choose gender-conforming toys. Chimpanzee juveniles engage in a form of play called "stick carrying" (basically, playing with sticks). While the females tend to split their time between using their sticks to hit things, or as levers, and using them as baby dolls, the males only use their sticks as tools or weapons.

But even if we were to see the biological aspect as a constant level of pressure, environmental pressures differ between cultures, so the proportionality of the biological pressure will change depending on the value of the environmental pressure.

X might always = X, but the value of Y (the sum of the environmental pressures) is not static, therefore it's difficult to pin down whether X = Y or whether X > Y or whether X < Y.

And of course, that's simplifying things to an absurd degree, as certain triggers in the environment can directly affect our biology and/or our behavior. For instance, father absence is linked to early menarche in girls (I can explain the most likely hypothesis if you like). Puberty and onset of menses is a purely biological process dictated by our genes, but how and when those genes express can depend on environmental factors.

If our biology can be influenced by environment, then the already difficult question simplified above as X =/>/< Y becomes essentially unanswerable. If the presence of something in Y can fundamentally alter the value of X, then both factors are not static.

However, all that being said, I want you to consider something. For the last several decades in Sweden trends in child rearing have favored the removal of "boy things" and "girl things". Sweden is prosperous, egalitarian and has embraced an ethic of "anything boys can do girls can do, and vice versa". More than this, Sweden has massive incentives for women to enter into non-traditional fields like engineering--they get free money, they get encouragement, they (used to) get priority in admissions, they're preferentially hired, and they're bombarded with posters, promotional materials and ad campaigns showing women in those roles.

Meanwhile, in India, traditional gender roles chug along as strongly as ever.

And yet the female proportion of tech workers (comp sci, engineering, IT, software development) in India (30 to 40%) is much larger than the proportion in Sweden (5 to 10%).

How can this be?

Certainly there is much less pressure to conform to traditional gender roles in Sweden than in India. But what else is there in the environment in India that doesn't exist in Sweden? Poverty rates are much higher. Even among the middle class, economic pressures are greater. Sweden has a massive social safety net, and India does not. India places a very strong onus on children to take care of parents, and on extended family operating as a team, while Sweden is more individualistic. Post secondary education in Sweden is basically free, and ~44% of Swedes have a degree, versus in India where education isn't particularly costly but even a 94% average won't get you admitted because spaces are so limited--less than 10% of Indians have higher ed.

Seems to me when only the very top students can even get into school, and families are likely pressuring their kids (male or female) who are able to make it to opt for fields with a high monetary return on investment, taking women's studies, or feminist interpretive dance, or drama is something fewer women are going to consider. My guy used to work with a fellow from India, grew up very poor (so poor his dad had to save for years to take the family to a zoo in the next town, and after injuring his back after being hit by a car used to crawl on hands and knees to work every day). Both he and his sister made the cut for university, and they both chose engineering. I can only imagine what his dad would have had to say if his daughter had squandered the opportunity on a degree in "interdisciplinary studies with a focus on the poststructuralist philosophies of colonialism" or some shit.

Now let's look at Sweden. People are individualistic there. I doubt any of them feel like they owe their parents that kind of sacrifice. They don't need to support anyone other than themselves (and frankly, they don't even need to do that given the social safety nets). None of them would have grown up in an environment of seemingly intractable scarcity. Virtually anyone who wants to attend university can, and it's basically free. The pressure to choose a field of study with a high return on investment is simply not there--not only is the investment lower (not simply in monetary terms, but in the competition to get in), but the return is less necessary. In Sweden, you can choose the degree you're interested in, even if all it qualifies you to do is work at Starbucks.

So here we have the "gender equality paradox". As pressures within the environment ease or disappear, and even as the socialization aspect of gender roles diminishes, all that there is left to express is the biology.

You can tell Swedish girls that they can do anything boys can all you like. You can show them women in those roles, being successful. They can internalize that message completely. Does that mean they will suddenly start WANTING to do what boys do? Probably not unless it's accompanied by pressures and expectations, financial, familial, competitive and cultural. Sweden obviously doesn't want to impose those kinds of pressures on women, so it has essentially engaged in a failed system of "encouragement".

There's an old saying, "you can lead a horse to water..." If the horse is thirsty enough, like the women in India who make it into post secondary, it'll drink, even if the water doesn't taste very good to it. If it's not thirsty, it will decline, and opt for water that tastes better. All the "encouragement" in the world won't change its mind.

So basically, in all probability, in India X < Y, and in Sweden X > Y, not because their Xs are substantially different, but because India's Y is greater than Sweden's. And ironically, even India's gender role component of Y is greater, but the other pressures (financial, familial and competitive) seem to outweigh gender role pressure.

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The internet is open to anyone at all, to find out anything. Everyone under 30 knows this, from 5 years of age, and up.
How to build a bridge https://www.google.com/search?q=How+to+build+a+bridge
How to design a barn https://www.google.com/search?q=How+to+design+a+barn
You name it and I'll type it into google, and then you can put that shit on blast to female America. They will even help you spell things properly, so that's not an issue.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#safe=off&q=metalworking+101
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#safe=off&q=Shoe+making
Take any subject, apply the endless ''girls are better'' propaganda, and what else could anyone need?
Put your kid in front of the TV, and watch them rot with horrid influences on their young minds.
Make shoes. Make jewelry. Do stuff. Or pretend that you are a princess and twirl in a glitter tornado in front of the glowing screen. I mock those families openly and think it's awesome that they pose little competition for the kids from smart families. I see an intelligence class divide in the US, and it isn't based on race or religion or gender. It's based on proper activities in certain families.
The libraries of the US will have research librarians on staff to help you, with info, grants, support, foundations, you name it.
This library game has been available for 100 years of open access.
More girls will read Seventeen magazine this week than will read a book.
There's no power in that choice. Oh well. Had their chance. Missed it. Whoopsie.

[–]Imnotmrabut 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

So you simply base it on bias and cognitive bias?

"The Women-Are-Wonderful Effect"
"The idea that people are prejudiced against women has been a standard assumption both of social psychologists who have studied gender-related attitudes and stereotypes and of feminists committed to social change. Because the term prejudice generally refers to negative attitudes toward members of a social group, the issue we examine in this chapter is people’s attitudes toward women in the sense of their general evaluation of this social group.... Recent (1994) research thus suggests that both women and men evaluate women more positively than men - a finding that we dub the *women-are-wonderful effect*. These findings are provocative in the light of claims concerning negative attitudes and stereotypes about women.
Eagly, Alice H., and Antonio Mladinic. "Are people prejudiced against women? Some answers from research on attitudes, gender stereotypes, and judgments of competence." European review of social psychology 5.1 (1994): 1-35. doi:10.1080/14792779543000002

"The Women-Are-Wonderful Effect"

"The idea that people are prejudiced against women has been a standard assumption both of social psychologists who have studied gender-related attitudes and stereotypes and of feminists committed to social change. Because the term prejudice generally refers to negative attitudes toward members of a social group, the issue we examine in this chapter is people’s attitudes toward women in the sense of their general evaluation of this social group.... Recent (1994) research thus suggests that both women and men evaluate women more positively than men - a finding that we dub the women-are-wonderful effect. These findings are provocative in the light of claims concerning negative attitudes and stereotypes about women.

Eagly, Alice H., and Antonio Mladinic. "Are people prejudiced against women? Some answers from research on attitudes, gender stereotypes, and judgments of competence." European review of social psychology 5.1 (1994): 1-35. doi:10.1080/14792779543000002

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[+]RunsInJeans points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

What do you believe are the 2-3 most pressing issues women face today (in the west). I'm not looking to argue with you but from my perspective it seems society is always hyper concerned with the well-being of women. You seem sensible so I'm curious what your thoughts are. Thanks.

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[–]derpylord143 13 points14 points15 points 9 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Mind if I probe a tad deeper into your views (I'm not sure why the response was down voted when I got here). But yes my question is this, can you name anything that is preventing women entering stem and such fields aside from their own choices? Similarly, why should we interfere if it is a matter of their own choices which they ought to be free to make? and finally, why should we fix just unequal representation in stem and business yet have no mention of construction based jobs, and other such things? surely equal representation should be uniform across all jobs, or it's not necessary on any correct?

also see: Hjernevask <-- that's a dutch set of documentaries (though most are subtitled) which look at topics such as the gender debate and the nature v nurture argument, I've only seen 2 maybe 3 out of the 7 but the two I watched were well done and fairly made, giving fair opportunity to both sides.

[+]corinini points 9 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

Short anecdote here - the head of the math department at my highschool tried to prevent me from taking calculus because it was "only for people who want to pursue math in college". I went on to Engineering school but not before spending over an hour trying to convince the man to put me in the class (my grades were never in question). As far as I know none of my male peers had that experience but a few of my female peers did.

I know that it's an anecdote, not data, but it does happen.

[–]derpylord143 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

I will say this now, I am sorry for the length, that said I try to give as full an answer as possible to anyone I talk to (in the hopes of not causing any misunderstanding, even though it normally happens anyway).

the head of the math department at my high school tried to prevent me from taking calculus because it was "only for people who want to pursue math in college".

Certainly, that’s an issue, and I am not saying that it’s right. My point was more aimed at the assumption that there is something systematic preventing it, which this doesn't seem to be. It seems to be an individual action more than anything else. Also, there are normal things in place to prevent it. In the US, for instance, this would most likely violate Title IX (I think that's the right one) because it's seemingly based on gender. I say seemingly because there are other potential things, that could cause it. This could be because you have more female friends, or that you are more likely to discuss these topics with females, thus it seems more prominent for instance.

I say that because as a male, I remember having a very similar discussion at GCSE level (15-16) with my science teacher. I should note I am English. I had the discussion about whether I should do triple or double science. Basically double does 3 exams which are shorter and easier for 2 "GCSES". Triple does 3 longer exams, which are harder, but for 3 "GCSES" - I think anyway, I never did double. I had to persuade her to let me take triple (note I was more than capable even if lazy) because I by that point had lost all interest in science. I had become far more interested in things such as law and tech stuff. I had kinda weird interests at that age (well tbh I'm still interested in both, hence my pursuing law at uni). Anyway, I had no interest in doing science at college/uni... She didn’t want me to take the course because it meant taking her time from other students who were interested in pursuing that course…

I would have loved construction but the truth is I had no idea how to get involved with something like that.

It’s supposed to be really easy for women, as there are so few women in construction. They supposedly make great "bragging rights" on the equality ground and are sought after. You just need to do the same stuff men would. That being an apprenticeship or college course in the area of construction you want to do. At least for bricklaying, roofing, most electricians, and carpentry. From what I have been told anyway. That said it's anecdotal and lacks solid evidence.

Also, frankly, women are scared off of construction by construction workers hollering at them from a very young age. Why would you subject yourself to that kind of abuse constantly?

Hmm, hollering is stupid and idiotic, but that only occurs in construction. I still don’t see feminist pushing for more female garbage workers, more female linespersons (like electric lines – I have never heard of those people hollering). My point is that they only push for “pleasant work”.

I do disagree with that final question though. The work itself is often boring monotonous and in a crappy environment (outdoors, be it freezing cold, or boiling hot). My father and his work mates normally stated that they were concerned about "women ruining the fun they have at work because they can’t handle the banter". Basically, they take the piss out of each other’s sexuality, sex lives, homes, friends, children, that sort of stuff. For instance, I remember this one time when he said, his co-worker/boss said my dad was gay. They supposedly asserted that he would fuck the homeowner of the house they were working on or get fucked by his boss/co-worker. My dad said he responded, "you're not a man till you have had a man" or something of that nature. They seem to think female staff members would hamper that. Namely, because they would not welcome the sexual jokes and banter and just generally "hostile" nature of male joking with one another on the work site, and have it stopped. Even though it's in no way “sexist” its just what they do for fun and to liven up their work. Basically, every male construction worker signs up knowing that sort of abuse is there…

My point being that working in a hostile environment requires keeping their spirits up, they do this by joking around and messing with one another. Females should if there ought to be a 50/50 split into all lines of work, adapt to the work environment. They shouldn’t (if quotas are being enforced) just get to pick and choose nice work. As I note all staff is subject to it, be it female or male. Every male entering that line of work does, women ought not to be exempt, otherwise, it's sexist in their favor. Overall, to that question, men frequently do… so I suppose the answer is “yes”.

[+]corinini points 9 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

To clarify I'm in the US, and as an engineer, I had a ton of male friends, you pretty much have to or you won't have anyone to talk to in school.

Regarding construction - there is a world of difference between good natured ribbing between co-workers and shouting at strangers on the street. That's how they treat you when they don't even know you. And I've had plenty of shit jobs, but that doesn't make it okay to treat people like shit. I can take a joke, but I can also tell when it's not a joke.

Frankly, you see very similar arguments in professional kitchens as well, and you also see that it's not really a good thing to treat people like shit just because it's the custom. Customs can and should change, and not just for the token female employees but also because it becomes a toxic work environment for the men too.

As for why there's no push to equalize the shit jobs the answer is that they are usually manual labor that realistically is harder for women to physically do. That's not the case for Stem jobs where physical capabilities don't come into play.

Also, the reality is that a lot of women don't want to deal with working with all men - for similar reasons that men don't necessarily like being around all women - the work environment in single gender places tends to get somewhat toxic. Ask any man who has worked in nursing. I'm just here to tell you that it's the same from the other perspective and maybe all of these things do influence the choices that people make professionally beyond what they'd ultimately like to be doing with their lives.

[–]derpylord143 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Its nice debating for once, even if i don't think we will agree, its rare that i get a discussion that is engaging.

there is a world of difference between good natured ribbing between co-workers and shouting at strangers on the street. That's how they treat you when they don't even know you.

Maybe, my point was more aimed at answering that question on abuse, you asserted that only a few people would enter lines of work that suffer such kinds of abuse... my point was noting that that kind of abuse amongst men is frequent, and is often used to bond and have a laugh. You state there is a world of difference if you don't know them, but then that doesn't explain new male staff members, they get ribbed the hardest, they aren't known (in the sense they might know names but nothing else, they aren't "friends") and yet they don't just quit or complain to get it stopped...

you bring up the kitchen environment but it's not the same. The kitchen environment involves one individual shouting and berating the entire team who can do nothing back (or at least that's my understanding). Construction employees have a laugh, this includes against their bosses because of the culture they have. its how employees lower stress, it helps them cope with the harsh environments of work and it builds rapport. If the boss were immune his staff couldn't get on with him as well, and therefore not work with him as well, not much of a problem in huge firms, but smaller ones and it's a serious issue. It's more than mere culture it serves a practical benefit for them. I ought to note that whilst anecdotal people are now being fired for "cat calling" (something i agree with)... My point was never aimed at saying cat calling was fine, more that, if we are pushing 50/50 representation in jobs then surely they ought not to be immune to (or have removed) the ribbing they give each other and that is often as bad in terms of what is said, as cat calling.

Customs can and should change, and not just for the token female employees but also because it becomes a toxic work environment for the men too.

That's just it, it's not toxic, its a laugh and "banter", you never see male employees complaining about it, because they enjoy it and its a laugh. Put another way, what right do you have to call their actions toxic when they enjoy it, just because you don't think it's nice? plus this is irrelevant to the question of 50/50 work rates, women should adapt to male workplace customs, just like men would and do to female ones.

As for why there's no push to equalize the shit jobs the answer is that they are usually manual labor that realistically is harder for women to physically do. That's not the case for Stem jobs where physical capabilities don't come into play.

I might have bought that if i didn't know the trend went beyond just employment with feminists, the best example being the feminist push against equal family courts and alimony changes. Even though they were willing to destroy everything keeping women out of the workplace, they were unwilling to destroy anything keeping men out of the family.

Even if that weren't the case, the argument of "they aren't strong enough" doesn't hold ground, the point of feminists is force quotas regardless of capability for higher paying nicer jobs. Logically capability is irrelevant.

the reality is that a lot of women don't want to deal with working with all men - for similar reasons that men don't necessarily like being around all women - the work environment in single gender places tends to get somewhat toxic.

Certainly but that will never change until more people start working those jobs so it ceases to be "all male" or "all female", and it doesn't stop women wanting all the nicest jobs which were up until a few years ago held by main men.

[–]tehufn 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]derpylord143 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not concerned about equal opportunity, people stopping them, but rather making sure all options are known and developed as we grow. Do all women want to be bodybuilders? No. Most women don't even want muscles (something I will never understand.) Does that mean no women want to bodybuild competitively? Also no. There are female competitions for bodybuilding. I'm saying even if it is a minority, you will never know if you're interested in something if you're never exposed to it.

But currently, that exists, STEM goes out of its way to get more female employees/students, they just don't want that kind of work.

And we should have equal representation in government regardless.

I don't agree with quotas on any line of work, be it political or otherwise, especially where all politicians are "voted in" (aka we go out and ballat in every area) the most i could agree with is having 2 politicians in every area for each party, one male and one female, let the population talk.

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fo free

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