Courts 'should assume women can't consent to sex when drunk': Rape report's controversial proposal

bertreapot · 2015-06-03T07:18:54+00:00

yet another attempt to broaden the definition of sexual assault beyond common sense. of course people who are drunk can consent to have sex. you can't consent when you're incapacitated, which is the law now, and how it should remain.

and notice they don't care how drunk the accused man is. what if he's drunker than the girl? vice-versa? what if she got him drunk? doesn't matter, men are all perpetrators, women all victims.

tygertiger · 2015-06-03T06:52:36+00:00

Women can't be held responsible for their actions. They are to be treated as children.

That is what this boils down to as far as the courts are concerned.

riskable · 2015-06-03T09:20:24+00:00

Why don't we just take away women's right to drink all together then? Honestly, this is all I get from this nonsense.

If we're going to go this far, then we should go all the way and not allow women to drink. If you can't handle your impairment then don't get impaired.

-er · 2015-06-03T08:49:45+00:00

So what happens if the woman gets drunk after sex & cries rape? It's simply another one sided law to be used as a weapon, why is a drunk woman not responsible for her actions but a drunk guy is?

2015-06-03T09:08:34+00:00

If it's impossible for women to have moral agency while drunk, they therefore can't face consequences for what they do, and so they should not be legally allowed to drink.

Chair_Toaster · 2015-06-03T08:33:52+00:00

I was thinking about this yesterday. So scenario...

You and your gf/wife go out to a bar and get drunk. You head home. You sit down on the sofa together and she proceeds to take off you trousers and suck you dick. You have now raped her.

Wtf.

aesopstortoise · 2015-06-03T08:10:43+00:00

How are feminists going to blame the backlash against this sort of patronising idiocy on the patriarchy?

2015-06-03T07:24:33+00:00

All of this is not about preventing rape but handing women power to imprison any man they have had a relationship with. It makes women the decider of a mans fate in all cases.

Cypher_Aod · 2015-06-03T10:41:43+00:00

Sexual-Consent-Confirmation-Kit! Coming soon to a supermarket near you!

Now with video and voice recorder, fingerprint-authorisation-box and new for 2015, blood test module!

InBaggingArea · 2015-06-03T09:53:53+00:00

Man rolls up woman's sleeve without consent to test her blood alcohol level in sleeve-rape horror.

juukione · 2015-06-03T10:38:06+00:00

And how do you determine, that she didn't get herself drunk after the 'incident'?

Garod · 2015-06-03T07:27:12+00:00

Women still cannot be convicted of rape in the UK so all these laws are one way. If a woman cannot consent to sex if she is drunk surely a man should be excused rape when he is drunk.

InBaggingArea · 2015-06-03T09:46:00+00:00

"Certainly dear. I'll just run a quick blood test to establish the level of alcohol in your blood and ensure you are able to consent".

ThePigmanAgain · 2015-06-03T08:30:49+00:00

No sign in the article that this would work for both sexes -- Amy Schumer might want to move to the UK.

OilyB · 2015-06-03T11:45:21+00:00

Next step: when a man has a car collision with an inebriated woman in the other car, he's always in the wrong. Reason: she couldn't have consciously consented to driving. So he 'traffically' raped her.

Next next step: keep women in public in company of a man at all times. If possible: veiled, because 'imminent stare rape'.

Hello Islam! You've been way ahead of us all this time!

Deimos_F · 2015-06-03T12:46:31+00:00

If I get drunk, grab a gun, and shoot someone, I'm responsible for my actions.

If I get drunk, get in a car, and run someone over, I'm responsible for my actions.

I am responsible, because no one forced me to get drunk in the first place. I put myself in that situation, so the outcome is on my head.

but

If a woman gets drunk, and goes on to have sex with someone, she cannot be held responsible for her own actions, because apparently she cannot be trusted to conduct herself and decide whether or not to drink.

Much like you can't hold a mentally impaired person responsible for taking a huge crap on your carpet.

These disgraces to the female gender literally want the world to treat women like retarded humans.

Yay equality

NO amount of alcohol can be used as an excuse for an action or a decision, unless someone literally FORCES you to drink.

Good luck writing that into law though.

ilnuit · 2015-06-03T12:50:48+00:00

The only thing courts should ever assume is innocence.

Ophites · 2015-06-03T11:04:04+00:00

If that's the case, then men shouldn't be responsible for their behaviors while drunk as well.

PasswordIsNotTomatoe · 2015-06-03T11:54:03+00:00

So women can't be responsible for things they do while drunk, but men can't use the fact that they were drunk as an excuse for things?

A man and a woman lay down in bed together after getting drunk. Woman: He raped me! I was drunk! Man: I didn't know what happened! I was drunk!

Man goes to jail.

Tarnsman4Life · 2015-06-03T13:54:10+00:00

By the new feminist definition of rape I was rapped more than once by my ex; we had sex while I was ship faced and she was sober more than a few times. Oh wait thats right only women can be victims lol.

pirate6728 · 2015-06-03T16:19:04+00:00

Never--EVER-- buy a drink for a woman. She can't handle her liquor. Her girlfriends, the White Knights, and some members at least of government all agree on this. Any decision she makes after having a drink becomes null and void so-- she can't handle her liquor.

It probably should be illegal to serve alcohol to women, in the same way-- and for the same reasons-- that it's illegal to serve alcohol to children.

I would note that most women would protest this. So what? Many teenagers protest not being able to buy beer, but the law remains. If you can't handle your liquor--- and the above article clearly states that women can't handle alcohol-- then it should be forbidden by law to serve an alcoholic drink to a woman.

ralphswanson · 2015-06-03T18:46:54+00:00

Don't become Canada. Here it is a crime to cuddle or kiss your wife when she is asleep. This is what happens when feminists control the courts and government.

DailMail_Bot · 2015-06-03T06:44:45+00:00

Non-Daily Mail Mirror

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2015-06-03T12:00:19+00:00

If you can hold someone accountable for driving under the influence of alcohol, you can hold someone accountable for giving consent while drunk.

mindless_gibberish · 2015-06-03T14:16:29+00:00

Stop buying women drinks.

NSYK · 2015-06-03T14:56:09+00:00

I'm hereby officially declaring myself as a woman. If an intoxicated woman retracts consent the next day because she regrets her decisions, I can therefore claim she equally is guilty of rape. As a new transgender woman, society will see me as the hero and her as a low piece of scum for trying to oppress the gay community as a whole.

2015-06-03T16:33:11+00:00

Looks like Jimmy Buffett is gonna have to change the lyrics of that one song from "Why don't we get drunk and screw" to "Why don't I rape you".

PerniciousOne · 2015-06-03T17:40:52+00:00

What will be the next law, women cannot legally drink alcohol. As they are children unable to make decisions for themselves.

marcooni1 · 2015-06-03T09:17:06+00:00

Thats why there are such rules in Islamic countries, they know that womyn can´t be responsible for theire actions and thats why womyn has to be acompanied with men on streets.

RockFourFour · 2015-06-03T10:37:54+00:00

Well, then I guess I'm a serial rapist. I still have a few close female friends that I'm sure would be interested to know that I raped them.

peanman · 2015-06-03T11:49:35+00:00

This would be a problem if it was enacted in the United States. It definitely violates the equal protection clause.

nonskidded · 2015-06-03T12:14:14+00:00

When women are drunk, they cannot be held responsible.

When men are drunk, they are predatory assholes.

Tmomp · 2015-06-03T12:16:33+00:00

Let's create more institutional sexism.

Roddy0608 · 2015-06-03T13:28:17+00:00

What about men?

Electroverted · 2015-06-03T14:14:28+00:00

This is one of those times where an inch is given and they're trying to take a mile.

If you want to alienate men on the fence about women's issues, especially male lawmakers who know they're not immune from rape accusations, this is how you do it. No man with half a brain should vote for this. The white knights with dicks for brains will vote because they don't realize how vulnerable to the law this makes them.

Shadoe17 · 2015-06-03T14:19:17+00:00

This is just stupid beyond words. If you believe that you could get "raped" because you might get too drunk to say no, then don't go out drinking.

Alcohol doesn't make anyone do something that deep down they didn't already want to do, it just dissolves our inhibitions to stop ourselves from doing things. It's a "good sense eraser".

CMOS222 · 2015-06-03T14:22:43+00:00

Okay let me see where this goes...

If women can't consent to sex when they are drunk, then all sex with an inebriated woman, including lesbian sex, is rape.

From this it follows that if two inebriated women have sex, they have both simultaneously raped and been raped at the same time. Quantum physicists would love this.

So, if two women have sex and therefore have simultaneously raped and been raped, it presumably follows that the 'rape' cancels out the 'being raped' so that no sex crime takes place at all. Ok, that works.

...so if an inebriated woman has sex with a man, she is sort of like Schrodinger's cat. She exists in a simultaneous state of rape/non rape until she sobers up and decides whether or not she's been raped.

But, why the double standard? If an inebriated woman is legally defined as being unable to consent to sex, why wouldn't that same standard apply to men? Suppose two men have sex, one is inebriated, one isn't. The sober male takes advantage of the inebriated male, and by every conventional definition of the word, rapes him. Afterwards the assaulted male files a complaint with the police; the rapist claims that the inebriated man consented. The court is unable to prove otherwise and the rapist gets away with it. Why should the courts assume that women can't consent to sex when drunk, and men can? Wouldn't it make more sense to assume that neither gender can consent to sex when drunk?

Kingpink2 · 2015-06-03T14:24:36+00:00

If you are drunk you are still responsible for your own actions. That is alarming but it is yet to be seen if anything of that sort is codified.

Millenia0 · 2015-06-03T15:17:57+00:00

So basically you cant consent or agree/disagree to anything while drunk? Seems like a pretty big blanket.

ThePittWolf · 2015-06-03T15:53:59+00:00

So how many millions of men just became rapists overnight? (Raises hand)

2015-06-03T16:35:16+00:00

That's cool.

Then following the same logic: I can't consent to my own decision to drive my car while drunk, it just happened, and I shouldn't be arrested for it.

uberpower · 2015-06-03T17:00:08+00:00

So if an equally drunk man and woman have casual sex, the man could be convicted of being a rapist, forced to pay for the resulting baby for 18 years, likely lose his job or be expelled from university, live life as a registered sex offender, and face possible civil damages as well, right?

. . . Patriarchy!

suspendedtime · 2015-06-03T19:49:43+00:00

As usual the media has misrepresented something. The details are more complicated and do not say that someone can not consent if they are drunk, but rather that being under the influence of either drugs or alcohol is something to take into consideration as to whether the victim had the capacity to consent at the time of the act. The review says the Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act should include: "‘Where the person had taken or been given alcohol or other substances and as a result lacked the capacity to consent at the time of expressing or indicating consent unless consent had earlier been given to engaging in the activity in that condition" referring to use of drugs of alcohol. Also it's already been decided via the case of R vs Bree that someone can have sex while intoxicated or high if they are still capable of giving consent. The problem is when they are not capable of giving consent and consent wasn't given beforehand. It also says this " However, while ‘free agreement’ (consent as defined by section12) is absent when the complainer is incapable of consenting because of the effect of alcohol or any other substance, the prosecution must still prove that the defendant had no reasonable belief that the complainer consented. So in such cases it is necessary for the Crown to establish that the complainer was ‘incapable’ as a result of intoxication (and the evidential burden for that is appropriately high) and that the accused must reasonably have known this." The reality of the review is a far cry from the substance of the Daily Mail article.

j5c077 · 2015-06-03T21:29:08+00:00

rad. can i be absolved of all responsibility when drunk too?

DavidByron2 · 2015-06-03T22:57:28+00:00

Feminism as a movement is entirely based on the concept that men are not even comparable to women let alone equal. If this nutcase had even thought about the idea that men could be raped too, her theories would be nonsense.

She literally can't conceive of men being treated analogously with women let alone equally.

away654321 · 2015-06-03T08:15:00+00:00

The relevant paragraph from the report seems to be

'If, through drink (or for any other reason) the complainant has temporarily lost her capacity to choose whether to have intercourse on the relevant occasion, she is not consenting, and subject to questions about the defendant’s state of mind, if intercourse takes place, this would be rape. However, where the complainant has voluntarily consumed even substantial quantities of alcohol, but nevertheless remains capable of choosing whether or not to have intercourse, and in drink agrees to do so, this would not be rape. We should perhaps underline that, as a matter of practical reality, capacity to consent may well evaporate well before a complainant becomes unconscious. Whether this is so or not, however, is fact specific, or more accurately, depends on the actual state of mind of the individuals involved on the particular occasion'

So I'm not completely sure how the daily mail came to its conclusion. I think the report says that the discussion of alcohol should be cleared up in law. And that just because one of the parties has drunk a lot of alcohol does not mean that cannot consent.

away654321 · 2015-06-03T07:52:41+00:00

As far as i can tell this is the link to the report

Khathaar · 2015-06-03T12:13:46+00:00

This is insanity. Most of the time when I've pulled I've been drunk and the lass has been drunk, none of it was rape but it would be now.

Dd they rape me, then? Or can men still not be raped apparently. So daft.

tucsonled · 2015-06-03T13:15:55+00:00

So if two women get drunk and have sex then both of them have to be charged with rape since neither could consent.

DropkickMorgan · 2015-06-03T13:17:03+00:00

Should we also assume that drunk people who commit crimes don't have the necessary intent?

dasnoob · 2015-06-03T13:49:25+00:00

I would just like to say. One of my wife's favorite ways to have sex is for us to both get drunk and then go at it.

She definitely consents.

This is so stupid.

drawn0nward · 2015-06-03T16:15:20+00:00

Good to see the comment section in the article is filled with the same points that we are making here, heavily up-voted. Also, there was this lone voice of reason:

Delivering the ruling, Lord Judge said that consent could be given even after ‘heavy alcohol consumption’.

He said it would be impossible to devise a system that would link a person’s capacity to consent with how much alcohol had been consumed.

‘Experience shows that different individuals have a greater or lesser capacity to cope with alcohol and indeed the ability of a single individual to do so may vary from day to day,’ he said.

And this:

Previous attempts to toughen rape laws with a ‘sex breathalyser’ under which a woman who had drunk a certain amount would no longer be able to consent to sex have failed.

So those are some good signs. Here's hoping that this fucking stupid proposal gets shot down like the rest of them.

DavidByron2 · 2015-06-03T16:31:09+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2015-06-03T16:33:10+00:00

So women can't be held responsible for a DUI?

2015-06-03T16:57:50+00:00

awesome way to win every divorce battle

get super drunk

have sex

go to hospital and claim rape

mcavvacm · 2015-06-03T18:30:18+00:00

"T'was the year of 2020 when the mass exodus of American males happened to foreign countries"

I'm expecting a whole documentary in the year 2030 detailing how American woman all lost their bloody minds with these mind boggling laws to try to imprison every male.

aksuVOIMAMIES · 2015-06-03T08:24:02+00:00

You go girls!

mushybees · 2015-06-03T12:16:13+00:00

fucking alison saunders again. this is the rampant feminist DPP who only prosecutions historical allegations of abuse by male celebrities, and won't even entertain female suspects. who believes men cannot be raped except by other men. she makes me rage so hard

masterrod · 2015-06-03T13:55:15+00:00

This is based on level, so not horrible. But how will they know when the person had sex? Or when she actually "consented".. haha

This would only be good in cases where some was literally passed out drunk...

enjoycarrots · 2015-06-03T14:33:31+00:00

Courts should be allowed to decide that somebody was too drunk to provide consent. But it shouldn't be an assumption. Demonstrate it, damnit. That's the whole point of the court.

Edit: /u/away654321 cites the actual report, and it reads like they would still have to demonstrate that the intoxication was at a level that removed the ability to consent. So it looks like they would actually have to demonstrate it.

DavidByron2 · 2015-06-03T16:39:47+00:00

Okay. So men can't consent either? So I can just get myself completely trash and go around raping people and it wasn't my fault, because I didn't consent to any of that sex right?

InBaggingArea · 2015-06-03T19:14:23+00:00

How can she consent to having her blood tested? Risk of blood test rape, surely.

McFeely_Smackup · 2015-06-03T23:43:29+00:00

It's ironic that a woman could sit in her home and drink a bottle of vodka, get in her car and drive through a city, run over a pedestrian, hit a parked car, go to her ex boyfriends house, break in and have sex with him while he sleeps...and as far as some people are concerned she's committed 4 felonies, and then was raped.

wildfire2k5 · 2015-06-03T23:43:48+00:00

Well is is going to go over well.

overtmind · 2015-06-04T00:08:13+00:00

I propose, then, that women should not be able to legally drink if they are absolved of their own personal responsibility when doing so.

remembz · 2015-06-04T01:03:20+00:00

I wonder what she will say when her two sons get caught having sex with drunk women.

Erociter · 2015-06-04T04:18:29+00:00

So...if someone can't consent to sex while drunk, by this reasoning Amy Schumer raped a guy?

Then was applauded for telling the story by a crowd of feminists.

closetedapostate · 2015-06-04T06:06:01+00:00

Perhaps we should also assume women can't consent to choosing to drive a car while drunk. If she does damage to people or property while driving under the influence, we shouldn't hold her responsible at all. /s

Tlcj · 2015-06-03T13:15:22+00:00

What an idiot. At least the comments try and point out the issues and hypocrisy.

Title	Courts 'should assume women can't consent to sex when drunk': Rape report's controversial proposal
Author	TR6Cool
Upvotes	478
Comments	195
Date	June 3, 2015 6:43 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/38c2oe/courts_should_assume_women_cant_consent_to_sex/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/courts-should-assume-women-cant-consent-to-sex.978602 https://theredarchive.com/post/978602

Comments

Yay equality