Seriously, why are there more men struggling with dating than women ?

fathergoose77 · 2023-04-26T18:22:07+00:00

I feel like a lot of young men are pressured to go out and prove they can “get women” and have sex, so that’s what they try to do. A lot of girls grow up hearing “guys want to use you for sex”, so they are extremely cautious of being used, especially since younger folks don’t have as much life experience so it can be scary (both for girls and boys). An 18 year old dude is more likely to take a risk of meeting a stranger online for a date/hookup compared to an 18 year old women purely because of safety concerns.

Plus - it’s been kind of normalized for young men to talk about their dating griefs online. You can see even on subs like this that a lot of guys feel a sense of community because “they’re not the only ones, they’re normal, it’s women’s fault”. Every time I see a woman complain about struggling with dating online - she is met with a bunch of angry replies saying they don’t believe her, women don’t struggle dating, and all she has to dk is go outside to get hit on. So, you’re left with more guys complaining and the women just not engaging.

And then you have the guys who are in happy relationships also not engaging in those same online spaces because, why should they? Their experiences are also discredited. This has been reactions I’ve gotten as a man who is in a relationship, been in other past relationships, and has had many periods of not being in relationships. For some reason dudes on Reddit don’t want to listen to the other dudes on Reddit who DO have relationships, but they’ll eagerly listen to and agree with the dudes who have never had a relationship. I’ve worked my ass off for the things I have in life. Maybe that’s what’s scary to most people.

AntiVictimhood · 2023-04-27T01:28:18+00:00

Why does it seem to be that way ?

I can only speak to my experience, and I'm really not trying to shit on men. In sum, these are my thoughts,

Men attribute other failings in their life to the fact that they're single.
Men have shallow relationships with other men so being single hits harder for men because women have more intimate and fulfilling friendships (on average) that make being single tolerable/fun.
Men don't get involved in their communities as much as women do.

As someone who has more male friends than female friends, something I notice with single men is that they make being single their central struggle in life. And they attribute a number of bad aspects of their life to the fact that they're single. They have the mentality that if only they had a good woman to motivate them, to bring out their masculine side, to bring out their discipline etc. then things would broadly resolve. And maybe that's true for some of them.

Whereas all of my single female friends (and myself too when I was single years ago), when we're single we lean into friends and hobbies a lot more. When I was single, I socialized more with my friends, I picked up some classes and became more disciplined with my workout routine. I didn't mourn the fact that I was single, I just made it a bigger point to connect with my friends and engage with things I find fulfilling.

I find that men have pretty shallow friendships with their male friends. Which is something virtually all of my male friends tell me- that they can share things they'd never think to share with their male friends. And my partner tells me the same thing, that he's not really "close" to his male friends in any deep meaningful sense. They just hang out all the time, know each other, and do things together. But there isn't a deep loving bond or emotional fulfillment.
Where I volunteer, and what I've noticed in my other volunteer positions is that like 80% of the volunteers are women. Which is nuts, because we walk around and give food to the homeless, which is a risky and unsafe thing to do in my city. But women do it. And at the retirement home, not only are over 85% of the volunteers women, but the people coming to visit are women.... Sometimes the daughter in laws who come to hang out because their husband doesn't want to. Just through my own experienced volunteering in my community, it's pretty evident that women do a much better job at seeking out connections, trying to bond with people, and having emotional intimacy outside of their romantic relationship. I haven't consulted any data on this so it could be wrong to assume, but it's so rare to see men volunteering in roles that require connecting with other people.

Overall, I don't think one sex struggles more with dating than the other. There are just different challenges men and women face. I think men appear to struggle more for the aforementioned reasons.

Downtown_Cat_1172 · 2023-04-27T00:13:03+00:00

I think honestly it's because it's seen as manly to be hurtful and cruel to women. And nowadays, women have enough power that they don't have to put up with it. When the only way for women to exist in society was to have a man, they accepted the cruelty. Too many men don't want to give up the cruelty.

Soft-Neat8117 · 2023-04-27T01:29:20+00:00

The Redpill will say that it's because the top 20% of men are sleeping with 80% of women. Therefore, most women are getting sex and dates while most men are left with nothing. This obviously isn't true. For one, in order for each of those 80% of women to be with a top level man, each of those men would have to have to be dating/fucking four women at a time. I don't know of any man who has the time or energy to juggle four women when most men can barely juggle one.

While I do believe that there are some men (and women as well) who have more than one partner (either due to infidelity or polyamory), it's almost certainly not to the extent that Redpill claims. I think there are a number of reasons why there seem to be a lot more involuntary single/celibate men than women:

The first and foremost, men are more likely to bitch about being single/celibate than women are, at least on the internet. While I know there are women who are incels, 99.9% of incel, Redpill, Blackpill community members are men.
As many others have noted, there's a possibility that women are likely to label themselves as being "in a relationship" with man after a few dates, while the man waits a little longer before doing so.
I don't know how credible it is, but I remember reading somewhere that women are more likely than men to be attracted to the same sex. I don't necessarily believe that, but I do think it's probable that gay and bisexual men are less likely than lesbian and bisexual women to act on their same sex attractions. Being a man who's sexually attracted to other men is still widely frowned upon in society, while girl-on-girl action is a major fetish. Gay men are probably more likely to remain in the closet than lesbian women, thus remaining single, while bisexual men who are closed or prefer women would be unlikely to pursue other men. And women being with other women would increase those numbers in women's favor. (But since only a small percentage of people fall under the LGBT umbrella, this probably barely puts a dent in it, however.
Women dating older men. Contrary to what the Redpill says, most 20-year-old women are not dating 35-year-old men. But some are, which means that it's a few less women available for 20-year-old men.

Even in less extreme examples, men are usually at least a few years older than the woman in a relationship. Say, for example, a 20-year-old woman is dating a 23-year-old man. Let's say there's a 20-year-old man. Who's he going to date if he wasn't lucky enough to get a high school sweetheart? An 18-year-old? Maybe, but that's a risky move and even then, it takes away a possible girlfriend for an 18-year-old boy. And anyone younger than that could lead to violations of age of consent laws (or worse, pissed off parents). Men and boys who are still single in the beginning of their adulthood might have to wait a few years before they find someone because most women and girls their age are with men who are a few years older.

Sampling errors. Most men who are in happy relationships don't feel the need to participate in this BS. Silent majority and all that jazz.

CalmLake1 · 2023-04-26T22:44:32+00:00

Tbh it's just frustrating when we talk about dating, especially when it's about men, it's seen as this picture of these undatable men who just hate everything and everyone. Like there's nothing but negative reasons on why men aren't dating, or having sex. I get it though. Reading all the subreddit about men's frustration to dating and make you think that were all just hopeless. That's just not true. Not every man you see is redpill, or misogynistic, or feening for sex. So I want to jot down some point I believe that men aren't struggling, but putting dating and sex on a back burner.

I believe social norms are changing. It's not like back in the day where there was a cut and dry way that dating is supposed to go. Now that expression, uniqueness, and equality is becoming normalized thank God. We have men actually expressing how they feel and telling you what they want. And with feminism, and equality, men aren't pushed that hard to be the one to pursue. If not already, there will be women that will ask guys out by majority this time around.
I will argue that men are legit taking time to heal and take time for themselves. When women were complaining about how men treat you and a bunch of other stuff. A lot of us listened. We are leaving you alone, and taking time for ourselves. Like I said up top, not every man you see is part of redpill, misogynistic, or feening for sex. Believe it or not a lot of us care, and want to change. But healing yourself is a very lonely road. And I don't want to drag someone else with me, and my problems.
I'm sorry, but when there's a lot of men that aren't dating right there is an equal amount of women that aren't dating also. I know there was this study floating on TikTok that over half of men aren't dating or having sex right now. And with the internet there's this abundance of sex and everybody is just fucking everybody, but that portray on the internet is such a small minority. The average man and woman doesn't have 100 people on speed dial ready to bang whenever you get bored. All the shit you hear from redpill, or dating podcasts that talk about all these over the top struggles they have HAPPENS TO THEM. It's the shallow world they're a part of, not yours, not mine. I'm a regular man. I'll never go through the over the top struggles the podcasters go through. I don't want to. I don't have some ig models women in my dms tricking me out, the regular girls don't have tons of rappers, or pro athletes ready to give it up so they can leave you. ( Idk how it is for women on that end. I'm just giving realistic generalizations).

TLDR; everyone is having struggles of dating. Everyone is struggling with loneliness. Whether it's work, financial issues, free time, 3rd spaces, insecurities, there's so much contributing, but I truly believe there are a lot of people trying their best to be the best person they can be.

xvszero · 2023-04-27T00:17:54+00:00

Are they? What data backs this up? Are we considering all age groups?

I got close to all the boys there and 90% of them were single but much less women were single

Who are they dating if not boys? Are they all lesbians?!

Admirable_Wasabi1840 · 2023-04-27T00:59:42+00:00

I think another few issues that are at play are:

1) Women sometimes say they are with someone because they have been burned by the wrong guy one too many times and they are weary and don't feel like they can deal with being approached in the given moment.

2) Women on average are seeking relationships a little more and men are seeking sexual gratification so while its easier for women to get attention (because in patriarchy they are raised to appeal to men more than vice versa) many of them feel so inundated by men's sexual desire that this takes them out of the dating scene before they can cultivate a relationship.

3) Finally, women just seem to develop earlier and their advancements academically and professionally combined with men (including myself) struggling to adapt to social changes a lot of women are choosing to date older men so younger men are finding fewer potential mates.

anon018274031 · 2023-04-26T18:08:10+00:00

My best bets: 1) men are more likely to see a ‘relationship’ as casual sex, women will look at the same situation and call it a relationship. (This can both be intentional to get easy access to sex and unintentional due to poor communication) 2) men are more likely to cheat, have two girls going at the same time 3) men are just genuinely more private, where as girls tend to get excited when they meet someone and therefore tell people

brattcatt420 · 2023-04-26T20:04:28+00:00

Imo many modern men have way too high of expectations for themselves and women. Sure, some women are this way too, yes, but in my experience men value themselves much higher, and flee at any minor inconvenience or doubt.

Aside from the pretty popular insta model girl types. Most young women have horrible self esteem. They fall for shitty men who can manipulate them. They get married up quickly, but that doesn't mean they're happy. With redpill ideology on the rise, I hear story after story about men with weaponized incompetence, who cant get their wives off, who treat them like shit and they stay for years.

Now on the flipside many men have an expectation of being a player and sleeping with hot girls. Sure hot girls will sleep with you but that doesn't mean they want a relationship. Women who want long term relationships generally aren't the 10 every guy is looking for, those girls are looking for fun.

Throw in obesity, women are the most obese demographic in America right now. Again Redpill ideology, working out, getting fit... then Men watch insta girls and porn all the time, and are disappointed with the reality that women don't look like that irl or enjoy those things, and the ones that do aren't in their league or already married.

Shitty men pick up those women who are being pased by just because theyre not a size 2 and gorgeous and the cycle continues.

Above all, online dating is a joke. If you want a relationship go talk to someone irl. Online dating is incredibly limiting and most quality women aren't there because they get harassed.

spiraldinosaur · 2023-04-26T22:36:18+00:00

That's very selective data. If there's 10 women there and 10 there, and 9 of the men are single but only 3 of the women are, that doesn't mean that more men are single, it means you've picked more single men.

If instead the 10 men included those women's boyfriends, then you'd more likely have 3 single men and 3 single women.

For every (straight) couple, there's one man and one woman who are now no longer single. So it can't really be the case that more men are having a hard time finding relationships than women. It's a statistical anomaly.

young_edgar17th · 2023-04-27T17:44:12+00:00

I think men especially in the newer generations need to step up, we need to take care of ourselves more and we are to focused on lust and not interested in actual love.

Livid-Team5045 · 2023-04-27T00:36:49+00:00

This is untrue. You are on reddit (more men).

chchazz88 · 2023-04-27T02:33:16+00:00

What kind of space was it? I mean what you described could just be happenstance. I think a very large portion of single women have just given up on dating, whereas many men are still trying.

teabagabeartrap · 2023-04-27T08:03:12+00:00

If you are a boy you search drinking water in the desert.

if you are a girl, you search drinkable water in a swamp.

at first sight the first one is lost... but on a second look, both have a hard time.

anthonyrecenello · 2023-04-27T16:01:51+00:00

It seems to be that way cuz of confirmation bias. Women have it just as hard.

AssistTemporary8422 · 2023-04-27T20:32:48+00:00

I believe its harder for women to feel attraction for someone than men. Its a lot easier for a guy to feel love at first sight while women are more likely to need to know someone for a while to develop feelings. Women also have stronger social supports so they feel a lot less lonely single.

what_i_reckon · 2023-04-27T10:00:27+00:00

Some of it is mathematics. Go look at the demographics there are more young men than there are young women. Then it evens out and flips so there are more older women than there are older men.

Some of it is about definitions, a man might be ‘seeing someone’ and still consider himself single, that woman he is seeing considers the situation as a relationship. Women sometimes say they have a boyfriend to fend off advances from men. And not appear ‘lonely’ to other women.

Ultimately dating is difficult for both men and women, but the common struggles the different genders have are different.

StarTrippinn · 2023-04-26T23:09:28+00:00

Anyone who says this doesnt know women personally at all. Men are not struggling more than women when it comes to dating. Men typically control the pace of dating. Men control when relationships go from one stage to another. RP males say men but they really mean a specific type of males, not all men.

RP males are so out of touch with what's actually going on with normal men and women, and they are so self obsessed that they think that their problems are the worst problems.

They cant even conceive of how the average woman feels about dating and when they hear about it, they dismiss it.

Mentathiel · 2023-04-27T07:15:25+00:00

You're just in friend groups that are like that. Maybe they're guys + girlfriends types of mixed friend groups, or maybe you're gathered around a common interest that is male-dominant so there's more men or women who're into it are more desirable, maybe you just know more guys, maybe you tolerate more when it comes to men being awkward/assholish then women so you've selected away the types that struggle with dating. Maybe a lot of women who struggle with dating avoid friend groups like yours because they don't want to be hit on by the types of guys who struggle with dating and judging by you posting here at least used to have some misogynistic beliefs. Idk. Maybe it's something entirely different, but there is some selection bias going on.

Another aspect is that we struggle differently. Men are usually the ones approaching, so they need to handle rejection and social anxiety and all that, while women tend to just signal interest and be flirty. On top of that, men are touch-starved because they're not allowed to be physically close with others in the way women are. They're also emotionally sort of deprived because they're pressured to be stoic and often open up only to women, sometimes only to partners. So they have many more unfulfilled needs hinging on getting a relationship, while women on average either want relationships for healthy reasons or because it makes them less insecure to have affirmation of their worth in that form.

Banestar66 · 2023-04-27T12:51:30+00:00

One possible reason is that per Gallup while there are similar numbers of gay men and lesbians, there are triple the number of bisexual women as bisexual men. Some of those women could be in relationships with other women.

Verificus · 2023-04-27T00:00:11+00:00

Because an average man doesn’t have access to an average woman. To put it more bluntly, a 5/10 man needs to put in WORK to even have a chance with a 5/10 women. Women around the average tend to look more appealing than men do and women around the average can still get sex and attention from men much more attractive than them. In fact, they might even be able to get a more attractive man than they are to commit to them. So then, if you’re a woman, why would you settle? I imagine that is the thought that goes through many young women’s minds. Then if you factor in personality, status, wealth and whatever else a man can bring to the table and it becomes clear that it is very easy for a woman to date up but very hard for a man to do so. In fact, men tend to date down. To top it all off, everyone’s access to the other gender in 2023 is astronomically larger than it was in say 1950. If you’re a woman and you can get attention from anywhere in the world where previously you’d have to settle for just your social circle, why would you go for that now? People have gotten more picky for who they want to be exclusive with and women have the advantage in that scenario.

banes_rule_of_two · 2023-04-26T18:01:45+00:00

Many reasons. Women are considered more sexually desirable by men in society, men have higher sex drives, men are expected to be the ones to approach, etc.

Fritz_Frauenraub · 2023-04-26T22:13:17+00:00

I'm sure it all comes down to the internet, like most other negative trends.

Nightchanger · 2023-04-27T10:26:01+00:00

Young women tend to date older men.

odd_cloud · 2023-04-28T00:09:21+00:00

There are several things, in my opinion.

1) Men have to initiate, and many of us don't have enough skills for it. Initiating romantic things requires certain social skills, which many people don't simply have. I know quite a number of generally well-adjusted guys, who have problems specifically in this area. There is no school where you can learn these skills, so many men never really acquire them.

2) Women do concentrate their attention on top men. People, who think otherwise, have not persuaded me of the opposite. Once I talked to a woman who told me about her coworker who (quote) "fucked all the analysts in my department". I haven't fucked departments of analysts nor has any of my friends. At the same time, I know several guys who were that popular among women.

Having several such examples in mind, I tend to believe that Tinder stats do actually illustrate what happens between men and women IRL.

3) To be attractive as a man, you have to have at least some money. Most young guys are poor, so young girls would prefer guys from rich families or those who are 3-5 years older and have some career.

Petyr111 · 2023-04-26T19:48:57+00:00

"And I hear so many men complaining about being single/frustrated than women which doesn’t make sense cause for every taken woman there is a taken man."

Because women are sharing the top 10% men. And these men usually are bad guys, cheaters, the worst men. So that's why 90% get nothing, while 10% men get everything. And these 10% aren't complaining because they have no problem.

Women only look for the 10% men, are used and hurt by them, and them blame all men for choosing bad people.

2023-04-27T08:41:37+00:00

Uh, duh.

lordDandas · 2023-04-27T10:11:33+00:00

But I think it´s the fault of society not encouraging men to develop their masculinity. They are shamed and mocked for it.

"Violence is rude, it's not like we need men capable of defense to protect us. You don't need money, money is for corporate greedy bad guys and it's not like I'm gonna do anything to fight back against them, I will just hide in the foods till they destroy them. I am a nice guy, I would never stand up to anyone because that's rude, it's not like I have my own sense of morality which is constantly being disrespected but I'm not gonna do anything about it because... Reasons. I will completely submit to women's toxic behavior even though I think it's wrong, because I am a man and my feelings don't matter. So I will just secretly hate them and repress my feelings. And then, since my feelings never mattered, I will force women to disrespect themselves as a punishment for what they "made me" do/not do"

Everything around redpillers revolves around what women want. And that's the problem. Because they are not thinking about what they themselves want.

Would you believe me if I told you that most redpillers actually started off as people who considered respecting women as a value held deeply to their hearts ?

This society breeds a bunch of cowards.

Men do need to grow up but none is making it easy for them. Have you heard what they are being told ? "You are not a man. You are a child. You are a disgusting simp. Your feelings don't matter, you should repress them. You are never enough. Don't be rude, women don't want that. Wait, actually women lied, statistics prove they like rude men. Everything you have been taught is a lie, except for the fact that your feelings don't matter and that your worthless, that's still true."

Every feeling men felt have been mocked in some way by society. Sadness = weak, protective = possesive/ridiculus, anger = dangerous, love = simp

How do you expect men to become mature when they are emotionally stunted by society ever since puberty.

Sickening but not surprising.

Men struggle with dating because they are not really men, because they are not really themselves, they certainly aren´t everything they could/should be. That´s why, even older men then date younger girls, because their emotional maturity matches.

SecondEldenLord · 2023-04-26T19:16:18+00:00

Because thanks to social media and dating apps, women's options now are almost limitless. Before they had to be satisfied with just a local man but now they can have dates with men from different states. As a woman you are born with sexual market value but as a man you have to build your sexual market value. Women are a lot pickier than men cause that is what it's promoted nowadays: superficiality. And women can obtain top tier men easy but men cannot obtain top tier women if they are not physically attractive. You see promotions of superficiality everywhere: sex, money and beauty. Men however, especially average men, are not picky at all, they would date almost anybody. Average women however think they are entitled to the top tier man. A man who us a 6 has no problems dating a 6 woman or a 5. A 6 woman however would rather date a guy who is a 9 or a 10. There is also a study that showed that a woman who is average has the same sexual pull that a top tier man has. Edit: forgot to mention that a woman would rather share a winner than keep an average man for herself, which explains why there are more single guys than women, because women share the top tier guys but would fail to obtain commitment from them.

ShityistDisciple · 2023-04-26T18:44:31+00:00

My dad was a player he was seeing more than one woman 👠♀️. Sometimes guys who are good looking, have good people skills, and drive have a lot of options.

IfSheBreathesThen · 2023-04-27T12:58:48+00:00

she’s a thot

levin1711 · 2023-04-27T17:42:58+00:00

becouse hypergamy

Title	Seriously, why are there more men struggling with dating than women ?
Author	thestruggle-isreal
Upvotes	22
Comments	338
Date	April 26, 2023 5:46 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/12zrm8e/seriously_why_are_there_more_men_struggling_with/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/seriously-why-are-there-more-men-struggling-with.1216873 https://theredarchive.com/post/1216873

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