Thoughts? How would you debate that? Seems like it's from a male perspective?!

thewetdog_ · 2022-02-15T12:00:34+00:00

I think this is a good point to make because it shows no matter how your own self esteem may be like at a given moment, you deserve to be respected and valued. Even if someone falls out of love with you or whatever, you always deserve kindness and consideration at your personal lowest.

I dislike the reverse because it victim blaming: “if you don’t love yourself you’ll keep drawing guys that do this to you”. “If you don’t respect yourself men won’t”.🙄

To a degree you teach people out there how to treat you, but healthy men, if you are at your lowest, they just won’t be interested or they’ll pity you and stay a friend - they will not take advantage of it.

SupermarketObvious92 · 2022-02-15T11:04:09+00:00

Loving yourself is an important first step to self respect, having standards and enforcing boundaries. It will protect you from LVM with ill intentions.

On the other hand, I do agree that there is no reason whatsoever to treat someone badly just because they have low self esteem or don’t love themselves. But people do, apparently. And yes there is evidence that a good, safe, loving relationship can be a major aid in improving your mental health.

But because we do not live in a Disney fairy tale: love yourself first and protect yourself from men!!

Platipus6 · 2022-02-15T11:20:19+00:00

Yikes from both perspectives.

Women who don't love themselves will be abused into the grave by an LVM.

Men who don't love themselves trying to convince a woman to stick around for the struggle? no ty.

samedinuitmort · 2022-02-15T11:06:37+00:00

I agree simply because we are never responsible for how others act and treat us.

When we don’t love ourselves, we are more likely to accept poor treatment from others. But if we’re lucky to stumble into a person who’s amazing and capable of really loving us, they won’t magically change into an abusive person because we don’t love ourselves.

Someone loving you the right way can actually help you heal your attachment style (it’s called “Earned Secure Attachment”).
And a safe, loving relationship gives you very stable ground to work on your own healing and self-love.

So yeah, how others treat you is more about who THEY are, not who YOU are (whether you love yourself right or not).

shockingupdate · 2022-02-15T16:33:57+00:00

I agree with this. In a perfect world, we would all be able to innately tap into our own self-love 100% of the time, fully understanding our worth and attracting partners who love us as much as we love us. But…trauma is a thing that exists. Tragedies exist. Situations that chip away at our agency and happiness exist. Let’s not pretend we all wake up every single morning full of self-worth and gratitude for every piece of ourselves. Sometimes you need a good friend or a partner to pick you up off the ground and remind you that you’re special and worthy of love.

Buuuuuut I prefer not to take this stance in the presence of strange men I don’t completely trust, because of course LVM have made a sport of weaponizing any and every moment of weakness they can get a peek at.

BrightIdeaGenerator · 2022-02-15T15:06:06+00:00

Maybe, but the opposite is certainly true. A bad relationship being used by someone who doesn't love you, who in fact hates you, will not lead you to loving yourself. And your chance of stumbling onto a good one with your self-esteem is so low is astronomical.

elainejay82 · 2022-02-15T14:41:49+00:00

Who is Jordan Pickell and why would I give a shit about his shit advice?

questionsaboutrel521 · 2022-02-15T13:17:40+00:00

The adage that I think works very nicely here and is great advice for women is this: Love yourself 51%.

Put yourself first. You are not a mom, wife, sister, daughter first. You’re a human being with needs. Men already do this. Never love anyone more than you love yourself and make sure to prioritize your needs a little more. You’ll never fall into the trap of giving “your all” for someone and feeling slighted in return if you love yourself 51%.

Carneliancat · 2022-02-15T13:23:50+00:00

Definitely written by a man. Notice it's all about him. Not a word about loving or healing another! It's all about expecting a woman's emotional labour to heal his little broken fee-fees. More cultural gaslighting of women.

Ladies, leave the emotionally stunted where you find them. It isn't your job to be used up and spat out just so a man can evolve. If he isn't making YOU feel truly loved, leave.

Kimpractical · 2022-02-15T13:21:50+00:00

Literally nothing will get you to love yourself unless you do the work on your own.

Nifteroni-and-Cheese · 2022-02-15T19:17:06+00:00

There are two statements here, and I few differently about them.

“It is a myth that you have to love yourself before you can be loved” I basically agree. I think it’s ridiculous to say you can’t love someone who doesn’t love themselves, my mom never stopped loving me when I was depressed and hated myself, silly notion.

“People can love us into loving ourselves.” Ehhhhh, your self love shouldn’t be reliant on outside influence, I don’t think it’s healthy to enter romantic relationships when you don’t know deep down in your bones that you deserve to be loved. The whole “love us into loving ourselves” thing just feels like a recipe for dependency, which is exactly what LVM want: for us to be dependent on them.

sexualfoodpantry · 2022-02-15T13:24:12+00:00

The only thing that helped me love myself, out of the insecure and jealous little mess that was my 20s, was hard work and overcoming tough challenges.

Contrary to popular opinion, another person's love cannot heal low self-esteem. However it can help you move mountains.

ferociouslycurious · 2022-02-15T15:27:42+00:00

I think this statement is false. You can be tricked into thinking you love yourself when really you only feel secure because you’re loved. That love leaves and you are crushed. Learning to love yourself must happen independent of external influence and that will essentially never happen when you focus on the love someone is giving you.

obiwindukin · 2022-02-15T16:23:46+00:00

I suffer from depression and low self worth. It comes down to feeling worthy I would think. You can't level up if you don't feel worthy be it of success, love, or even simple things like healthy food, or "me time".

A partner can't make you feel worthy, it's more likely that they will either take advantage of your low self worth or leave because men lack the emotional complexity it takes to hold someone's hand while they take the journey to self love and worth.

The truth is... a person needs a proper diagnosis, a good therapy plan, and the desire to break out of self loathing.

No one can make you love yourself until you finally realize how amazing you are.

thewetdog_ · 2022-02-15T13:50:00+00:00

Op your submission statement is pending. Per rules posts that are screenshots requirement statement promoting discussion or with insight/strategy.

kaitybubbly · 2022-02-15T16:01:10+00:00

Personally, I believe that you should never hinge your worth/self love/happiness on something you can lose (ie a relationship). Because when that thing leaves, you're left with yourself, and may be tempted to jump into another relationship (likely unhealthy) so that you don't have to be alone. Its important to cultivate a healthy relationship with a partner yes, however I would say its even more important to cultivate a healthy relationship with yourself.

juliana_san · 2022-02-15T16:27:23+00:00

I think I understand the intent but it doesn't usually pan out the way people hope.

A lot of that is because I would not have made the progress I have to love myself if it weren't for the folks in my life who were relentless in loving me (none of whom were romantic).

That said, it can be exhausting. If that person does not do the work and becomes solely reliant on external validation, those people are going to burn out. Folks who do NOTHING but feel sorry for themselves and cannot self reflect become emotional leeches.

And lastly folks who have a savior complex and try to coddle those without self esteem help to create toxic co-dependecy.

LIke a lot of other folks here said, true self love has to come from within. External love can help, but I don't think you can rely solely on that to reach a place of self acceptance.

BlueSkiesOverLondon · 2022-02-15T18:04:30+00:00

Hmm. I think you absolutely can be loved by someone before you are your best self—as in, they can definitely feel that way about you, because they see the good in you. Though it is rare, sometimes men do fall in love with potential and/or deeply flawed people, just like women do. I also think it’s important to remember that even though we should all try to improve ourselves, you will never be a “finished product.” You shouldn’t put your whole life on hold until you are perfect.

On the other hand, if you don’t love yourself, you are not ready for an actual relationship, regardless of how you or anyone else feel. Relationships are not just an expression of love—they are power-sharing enterprises. When you go in with self-hatred, you surrender too much of your power and it’s no longer a healthy conversation. You are opening yourself up to be taken advantage of.

Getting into a relationship when you still have significant self-image and boundary issues isn’t absolutely doomed to fail (I’ve seen like 2 relationships of that sort grow into healthy romances, because the people involved were teenagers when they were insecure) but it’s rare, and attempting it can be dangerous. Therefore I’d say this is bad advice overall.

Spraytyasha · 2022-02-15T16:59:11+00:00

I often notice that people with low self-esteem tend to project their insecurities on the people around them. They might not do it maliciously, but it can be pretty exhausting to have to constantly reassure someone that they are enough.

Also something I have seen is a lot of men who aren't confident tend to start resenting their partners, and treating them with indifference or worse, spite. It is all a part of projection, of course.

So maybe the statement is true IF the person handles their own insecurities and is on their own journey of discovering self-love. But if it is expected of the partner to deliver them to this goal, it is obviously not going to work out.

spinsterchachkies · 2022-02-15T17:19:36+00:00

Definitely not. Throw this in the trash

herbivorouscarnivore · 2022-02-15T17:38:14+00:00

A person who does not love herself cannot receive love from others. The lack of self-love is like a hole at the bottom of a cup. You can pour an endless supply of water, but it will all run out through that hole.

Geocities_SEO_Expert · 2022-02-15T16:52:21+00:00

I distrust why a man is mangling a common saying. I think this is true for your friends and family, but absolutely not true for LVM, who just prey on the most vulnerable women.

aclick1999 · 2022-02-15T19:49:06+00:00

Sure.

My mom and dad gave me SOOOOO much love that I'm eternally grateful for because it taught me the power, value, and sancitiy of love and to not give it willy nilly to lecherous men.

😁

aquietsword · 2022-02-15T21:32:12+00:00

I think in a perfect world (only HVM in existence) this would be true. Considering that the majority (save for mental health struggles) of our issues is a result of nurture imo, then nurture should be able to shift it.

However, in today's world not loving yourself as a woman makes you a mark for shitty, shitty LVM.

This probably works for males though. With the amount of pickme and barb the builders in the world.

katiekat0214 · 2022-02-15T15:47:12+00:00

I divorced my first LV husband because I absolutely could NOT love him into loving himself more. He had issues stemming from childhood: uneducated coal miner/gas station owner step-father in Appalachia called him "gay" for liking to read and liking animals; he had a pin in his hip from early teens; he was the red-headed step-child among his step-brothers, and by the time I knew him, he was a cop steeped in toxic masculinity for decades. His bio father died before he was born, and in 1958, his mother had to marry.

His walls were so tough, so high, so fortified, that no one could get in. I tried, oh how I tried. I could not love away the issues, or the distrust and dislike of people, or the toxic masculinity, back in the 90s when that term just wasn't known, along with the concepts of ace/aro.

His whole way of dealing with things? Draw a curtain, move on. Because he didn't communicate, I have no clue if he ever did any internal work at all, or had the tools to work on himself and be self-aware and reflective. Summer 1996, not my problem.

Other posters here have valid points, but if a man has issues, watch the hell out. If low self-esteem, inability to reflect, inability to learn from life and past mistakes, toxic masculinity are issues, way easier to cut things off and run than try to fix him. We're not Barb the Builder.

FUBARfromLSA · 2022-02-15T14:52:06+00:00

Hmmm…sounds like the ruminations of a scrote.

jUsT LeT mE LoVe YoU

jijitsu-princess · 2022-02-15T18:02:11+00:00

Rarely if ever happens and I am not the exception

melympia · 2022-02-15T21:57:52+00:00

Well, that saying may be true for most men. But women?

Yeah, right. /s

Title	Thoughts? How would you debate that? Seems like it's from a male perspective?!
Author	LexiJay94
Upvotes	158
Comments	38
Date	February 15, 2022 10:40 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/st05e6/thoughts_how_would_you_debate_that_seems_like_its/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/thoughts-how-would-you-debate-that-seems-like-its.1102202 https://theredarchive.com/post/1102202

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