On "Men are trash"

ExMuzzy · 2022-09-20T20:02:50+00:00

They say it’s because they’re “punching up” so it makes it okay.

Feminists aren’t allies of men, allies help each other. Feminists are like those “friends” that only contact you when they need something.

galacticdude7 · 2022-09-20T20:46:09+00:00

Most of the feminists that claim that they want men to be "Allies" aren't really looking for allies, they want men to stand by them, be quiet, and make it look like they don't hate men. They don't actually value the presence of their so called allies as people, they just use them as a prop.

WesterosiAssassin · 2022-09-20T21:44:42+00:00

That kind of talk is the reason I never really felt comfortable, or even truly accepted, in explicitly progressive spaces. What bothers me isn't so much when an individual person says it; of course it means they're someone I probably don't want to be friends with, but some people are just assholes and there's nothing we can really do about that. It's the way those comments are so often not just tolerated but downright encouraged and applauded by the broader community, and seeing them and the clapbacks against men quite rightfully standing up against them getting hundreds or thousands of likes and shares, and the intense hypocrisy of often the very same people claiming they want men to be more open about our emotions mocking any talk about how this shit hurts us as insecurity at best or throwing accusations of misogyny at worst, that just demolished my mental health in college (and probably still would be doing so if I hadn't learned to stop visiting those spaces as essentially a kind of self-harm).

When you speak up against it they twist your words about how you want them to 'cater to men' and like... no, I literally just want to not hate myself for being what I was born as, and to be able to build a leftist movement that's big enough to actually get things done (which you just don't do by vilifying half of the population).

anonymous_redditor91 · 2022-09-20T22:03:18+00:00

At first I just dismissed it as a fun joke. But then I saw that leftist feminists are actually serious about the "men are trash" hill.

It is disheartening how many feminists sincerely mean it, especially when they seemingly have no reason to feel that way, having had very privileged upbringings without any real negative relationships with men. But when you spend many hours every single day in online echo chambers that reinforce a certain belief, you yourself start believing it.

Soontir_Fel · 2022-09-20T23:23:22+00:00

I'm right there with you. I recently ran into this with a close friend of mine, she's prone to saying similar things. And we got into a little argument about it. I told her I'm tired of hearing it and that it's completely meaningless to say, it has no venom and just makes the person saying it seem toxic. I'm done with putting up with feminism, unless it's egalitarian I don't give it the time of day.

Eleusis713 · 2022-09-20T21:09:27+00:00

At first I just dismissed it as a fun joke. But then I saw that leftist feminists are actually serious about the "men are trash" hill.

Reasonable people often internally "sanewash" the more extreme language within their own ideological in-group. It goes something like this, "Surely they don't literally mean X, they probably just mean Y which I think I agree with.", where "Y" is a less extreme version of "X" (or it gets brushed off as a joke).

Using extreme language is often a deliberate tactic by some on the left. They can craft a message that reflects what they literally believe but still leaves some room for interpretation. This signals to other extremists while reasonable people at the edges of their local ideological sphere will sanewash their message for them and spread the message further within their own local ideological spheres.

So the same extremist position (which has been spelled out clearly for all to see) ends up getting more traction than it otherwise would. Combine this with social media and young people being malleable, and your toxic message has more reach than you could ever imagine.

Beljuril-home · 2022-09-20T21:10:54+00:00

I feel repulsed by... patriarchy

No western democracy is a Patriarchy.

Patriarchy is a system in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it. The entire concept is antithetical to a western democracy.

People who do not live in a patriarchy honestly believe they do because they are, for a lack of a better term, "gaslit" into believing so.

And because they falsely believe they live in a patriarchy, some of them feel justified in "punching up" against their oppressors by using terms like #killallmen or "men are trash".

The misandric hatred enabled by this false notion of omnipresent patriarchal oppression is incredibly harmful to our fathers, brothers, and sons.

And yet because few ever challenge this notion, the false narrative endures.

This is me challenging that narrative.

hottake_toothache · 2022-09-20T20:32:20+00:00

It is not a joke. They 100% mean it. And the guys who put up with it think, "Yeah, those other men are trash." Lol. Dillusion.

onlinethrowaway2020 · 2022-09-20T22:22:00+00:00

Same, 100%. Hopefully here is home for moderate, politically independent men supporting men.

Harsimaja · 2022-09-21T04:40:44+00:00

But the other way around, you can just wave in the wrong way and you’ll have a lecture about how you must understand that some gestures have been reinterpreted by wackos to have a banned meaning. No allowances or generosity of interpretation whatsoever. Just say a word wrong and you’re toast, or even something innocent and it’s your fault for not looking up whatever innocuous statement like ‘Being a man is OK’ has now been declared a “dog-whistle”.

However, it’s also your fault for not taking pains to understand what they mean when they literally say shit like ‘Kill all men’ or ‘Men are trash’. Unbelievable, and yet they think they’re the learned, enlightened, nuanced and most laughably of all ‘critical’ ones.

The only conclusion is that they must assume that people who disagree with them are more intelligent and discerning. That or they’re hysterical, unthinking, selfish pieces of… wonderful goodness.

Man_of_culture_112 · 2022-09-21T07:10:45+00:00

"patriarchy" The right is traditional not patriarchal, the right supports and promotes things like child support and alimony.

matrixislife · 2022-09-21T10:39:38+00:00

It's blatantly obvious that a significant portion of the feminists claiming "men are trash" believe it completely. They then have excuses made for them by the rest of the feminists.

I don't understand at all the desire for anyone who sees how men are generally disadvantaged in modern society to work with feminists. How can you expect anyone who literally considers you trash to have any empathy or feel support towards this cause? At best they will contribute no help at all, more likely they will actively hamper and harm the movement in the pursuit of their own goals.

another-cosplaytriot · 2022-09-21T12:26:57+00:00

The people that currently characterize themselves as feminists are actually female supremacists. It is more profitable for the news and media to propagate the current narrative, so it will perpetuate.

This is a clearly a matriarchy we live in.

I've checked out too. There's nothing on the right but fascism and xenophobia, and the left, though slightly less annoying, is the home of people more concerned about pronouns than climate, health care, or endless war. Frankly, after 30 years of liberal activism, I look at these self-absorbed assholes and it's hard to figure out how they even deserve to be on my team.

danmilligan · 2022-09-20T21:34:27+00:00

Take hope in this: Liberals are not the real left. I see them as a kind of pocket that they get stuck in and flail around with the others somewhere on the way to the actual left. The left cares about material conditions for all human beings, it's not obsessed with microagressions or scoring victim points. Come join us.

HereComesCunty · 2022-09-21T18:31:15+00:00

I cannot be your ally if you automatically see me as your enemy. I will not be your ally if you make me fight you for the privilege.

NanaLlama · 2022-09-21T10:01:11+00:00

I feel repulsed by the right and patriarchy, and I feel hated and alienated by the left and feminism. Manosphere red pill sexists want me to feel ashamed and "weak" because I'm not buying their scam courses, and radical feminists want me to feel guilty because ... idk, I guess I'm a man.

Wow! I want to frame this and put it on my wall.

Pasolini123 · 2022-09-21T13:48:18+00:00

I love this idea, largely perpetuated by many white knights, that if you feel insulted, you're part of the problem. And it's not meant just so. It's a half-mystical idea, that certain reactions reveal in one second THE TRUTH about a person.

Personally, I don't feel insulted by "Men are trash" bs. I just totally disagree, because I think that dudes rock😎

Just_A_Guy_who_lives · 2022-09-21T13:57:06+00:00

I’ve seen other intersectional feminists and transmen concur. “Men are Trash” is just the conservatives’ “boys will be boys” repackaged to the woke crowd.

HugeMisfit · 2022-09-21T03:33:43+00:00

fragile

Because the standard leftist response to opposition is name calling. If you don't think the ordained thought, something is wrong with you.

Stabby_Feminist · 2022-09-21T04:24:40+00:00

All I can really say is what has worked for me. I don’t seek belonging with my world or political views. They just are what they are and I don’t need to worry about anyone else’s.

shit-zen-giggles · 2022-09-21T08:52:18+00:00

you summed up my experience perfectly.

InfuriatedBastard · 2022-10-06T00:23:30+00:00

I feel repulsed by the right and patriarchy, and I feel hated and alienated by the left and feminism.

You just explained my feelings better than I could ever have. I always say this: The far left and the far right are two sides of the same coin. I wish the left realized how hypocritical and counter-intuitive their radicalism is. But you can't speak out against woke agenda without being deemed as a conservative.

Electronic_Heat1306 · 2022-09-20T20:22:12+00:00

Had a very similar path, but I’m borrowing parts of the red pill for self development and exploring parts of the masculine psyche that I might have wrote off in the past and finding community in religious organizations oriented towards social justice and scholarship.

Urhhh · 2022-09-21T15:39:17+00:00

Feminists can never have their so called "allies" if they don't reciprocate the requirements for an alliance to be founded.

LLLevin · 2022-09-27T18:07:36+00:00

I think you shouldn't dismiss the left in this way. Despite how the modern incarnation of it is, the left can still be genuinely egalitarian, while the basis of right wing ideology inherently creates discrimination and inequality.

Even though the left has been hijacked by a capitalist idenity movement, there have been times when it was genuinely about equality and it still can be. That's why subs like this exist. Think about ppl like MLK who both talked about the black struggle while still advocating for unification between all poor people and aknowleging that white people being more well off doesn't mean the average ones aren't victims of capitalism as well.

What we need is an egalitarian left movement that acknowledges men and woman both have unique struggles as well as common ones.

Title	On "Men are trash"
Author	kazetoumizu
Upvotes	218
Comments	138
Date	September 20, 2022 7:30 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/xji3yq/on_men_are_trash/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/on-men-are-trash.1132313 https://theredarchive.com/post/1132313

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