Thoughts on conscription

RestoringStatsGuy · 2022-04-26T15:01:43+00:00

Rule 1 - There should not be mandatory conscription. Rule 2 - If there ABSOLUTELY HAS to be conscription, it should be gender neutral. Rule 3 - If lost/confused, refer to Rules 1-2.

a-man-from-earth · 2022-04-26T15:20:07+00:00

I hope that anyone who votes the first option will see themselves out...

Zaronax · 2022-04-26T15:41:57+00:00

I'm under the "conscription is justifiable under exceptional circumstances" but it needs to be gender neutral at all times.

For example, Alien invasions. Or existential threats where anyone and everyone is required to fight to try and save as many people as humanly possible.

Short of, say, your country being locked down by another country or surrounded on all sides with no escape possible, I'm against conscription.

SCArnoldos · 2022-04-26T19:50:21+00:00

Replace "male" with "female" and "mandatory military service" with "mandatory population replacement birthing service" and see how many people agree with you.

I guarantee it will be a lot less than this.

ExMuzzy · 2022-04-26T17:10:30+00:00

A misandrist country that forces you to fight for it isn’t a country I want to fight for.

Oncefa2 · 2022-04-26T17:39:43+00:00

International courts have decided that involuntary conscription is a human rights violation.

Specifically through the mechanism of "conscientious objectors". It's considered an issue of religious freedom (where religion legally can mean your personal thoughts and convictions).

So if you're a conscientious objector and you get drafted you in theory have some sort of avenue to sue the state under existing human rights treaties that your country is likely a part of.

gratis_eekhoorn · 2022-04-26T16:44:31+00:00

The only justifiable conscription in my opinion is a gender neutral conscription by a country in a defensive war.

BloomingBrains · 2022-04-26T20:11:05+00:00

Let me put it this way. If I lived in Ukraine right now, I would be fighting the Russians to defend my home. However, I would want to do so knowing that women were also putting their lives on the line to defend the country because they see my life as equally valuable to theirs. Conscription can be justified if its to defend your country's soil, but they should absolutely take equal numbers of women, and I don't believe in war for frivolous reasons.

Motanul_Negru · 2022-04-26T19:02:39+00:00

Huh, I'm part of the plurality for a change?

Training is one thing (I mean, we have compulsory schooling and that's pretty based and necessary, all things considered) but forcing people to fight and/ or work for the state is an idea that belongs to the bad old days when the king owned everything and everyone in his realm (notionally at least).

We do not need those times ever again, and we do not need this disgusting relic of them.

Putin wouldn't have been able to occupy fucking Chernobyl if he didn't have his big horde of slave soldiers, rounded up and driven by his slaver-soldiers who imo are hypocrites for not carrying whips.

ObserverBlue · 2022-04-26T15:20:06+00:00

I consider conscription, necessary or not, to be exploitation. When it involves combat, we are not talking about a casually unpleasant job or a minor inconvenience. It's about putting a person's well being and life in harm's way.

The people who agree with it are not justified in wanting others to be subjected to it as well...

PhilosopherHistorian · 2022-04-27T00:42:13+00:00

Even in times where it seems necessary, conscription is merely a form of slavery. It doesn’t matter what gender(s) it applies to.

NightWolfYT · 2022-04-27T05:19:26+00:00

Forcing me to fight for a government I hate, to die in a country that is not my own, away from my wife and kids, in a war I never supported, should 100% be illegal.

JACCO2008 · 2022-04-26T15:54:27+00:00

When the Covenant invade and start wrecking our shit we will need a draft to slow them down for 30 years in the hope that we can capture a leader and negotiate an end to their crusade against us. That said, it should be gender neutral and everyone regardless of what reproductive organs they have should be given the honor of being brutally slaughtered equally.

Short of that, mandatory military service can be beneficial for society as it provides a common experience that acts as a kind of social glue. It also provides a good foundation for entering the job market. We see this in Israel and it seems to work reasonably well. They also draft everyone though, including women.

I'd say that my opinion is that if you are going to do it, do it to everyone without exception. If someone is unfit for "normal" duty then you find a place to put them for their term. If you aren't willing or able to do so, then stay away from it completely unless the Covenant show up.

ItsVinn · 2022-04-27T03:45:15+00:00

I strongly despise being forced to serve in the military. I am not willing to serve for a country that I cannot even agree with their politics.

In our country, we used to have mandatory military training for college men (and later with women), and to be honest, they got cancelled because one guy got murdered after Calling out the corruption in the program. Some here think the military will discipline their child— which is absolutely not.

Forced military service is a violation of human rights and I will never wish to have anyone be forced to be in the military. It should always be a choice. No one should be jailed for refusing to join the military.

b1rtb0i · 2022-04-27T05:10:45+00:00

Singaporean here that just finished National Service in the Singapore army. I see it as necessary if a country has a significantly smaller population than other nations. There were times in the past when the countries surrounding us tried some funny shit (Look up Konfrontasi or when they tried to do a large scale military exercise with live rounds on our border) National Service also helped to create a unique Singaporean identity among a society that was very divided over race. But it’s in a much better state now even though there is still racism.

That being said, it should be gender neutral. Under the current system, males only have to be conscripted while women could go off to uni or whatever. This was done in the 1960s to ensure that there was a workforce because our economy was weak. Now, since the economy is strong, they should make women serve. The societal divide between men and women is frankly worsened because most couples would break up and the guys constantly have to go through this Shit. In my platoon in boot camp, I saw multiple couples break up over text and 90% of the time it was the girl dumping them.

Now, women should only be able to serve in support roles which can help solve the manpower issue. That being said, they should be allowed to serve in the combat vocations if they can hit the physical standards. Failing to do so can damage combat effectiveness.

Pasolini123 · 2022-04-27T16:31:36+00:00

I sincerily hope those 14 people, who voted in favor of male only conscription were trolls.

Razorbladekandyfan · 2022-04-29T17:39:31+00:00

NEVER male only conscription. Never!

Darkwolf90 · 2022-04-26T15:29:21+00:00

It is literally slavery, conditional sure. Just because your willing to fight for this country in emergency situations doesn't give you the right to force others. However the state believes it has the right to your life and death for its own cause.

It would be "nice" if our country actually held to its principles. However this requires a lot of work and restructuring many things towards already existing goals. Decentralization, to create a bottom up form of Government. Your mayor/town council should be your "president" the federal government should be nothing more than an agency used for communication between local Governments.

It's not that the military is wholly unnecessary, however it should not be under the federal government. Rather any national military should be a conglomeration of localized militaries for organizing against threats that 1 local government would be unable to handle. This goes for many other things, the FBI and other federal agencies are good ideas with poor execution. It's fairly obvious that we exist in an oligarchy. An oligarchy is a form of democracy in which the "elite" are given more political power. Democracy is a fairly generic concept that covers quite a lot of ground.

Personally I don't see any rational, moral option other than to push for libertarian socialism. Taxes need to be addressed to become willing contracts, you want to use the road? Pay the "taxes" otherwise you don't own a part of it, it's not yours.

I am pro philanthropy however you don't get to decide where my money goes, there's also the issue of our privately owned things are often not truly privately owned and why do I not own my labor and work? Why is it that our current system pushes and enforces company theft from the very employees that they say are part of the company?

I'm tired of all the weaseling done by the "right" and "left" to protect authoritarianism and corruption. We would also have to revamp our education systems to address how stupid and dependent on faith the majority of our species has become. If you can't explain in an objective fashion why your right then shut up, you may be "right" however that has little to nothing to do with you. Your likely to espouse counterproductive nonsense.

Reality is based on process, nothing is the exact same, this is why math is so incredibly important. It gives us a way of creating abstractions, of quantitating a defined property according to its relative measurement unit, a scalar. A set or group of an object when combine with a set of an object creates a set of an object and an object a.k.a the short way of saying it 1+1=2.

SandyV2 · 2022-04-26T19:20:19+00:00

I have no objection to compulsory military service in times of major war. How the US handles selective service registration these days I think is perfectly reasonable, except for it being male only. Having the protocols and mechanisms in place before they're needed is always a good idea, and its damn easy to register, so make it gender neutral and I think it's perfectly fine.

Valoxity-_- · 2022-04-26T15:29:33+00:00

Conscription is a NECESSARY evil that should be REWARDED much better than what it is curently.

p_and_q · 2022-04-26T15:28:46+00:00

Young women are more valuable from a reproductive standpoint then men. That's just a biological fact. Conscribing women into military service is just never going to happen. Even non-combat jobs can be life threatening due to the fact that many take place in viable enemy targets.

That all being said, I personally believe the US needs to replace the draft with 2-4 years of mandatory (paid) civil service before attending college or going directly into the workforce. This could mean doing anything from service in the national guard or military to working in hospitals or elderly homes. This makes it fair for everyone and creates a better educated workforce.

EDIT: I believe in equality and fairness as much as the next person. But war creates an environment of brutality, savagery, and incivility. People lose rights all the time in war and post war.

EDIT2: Due to the fact that a lot of arguments fall under the umbrella of "that's not fair for men" or "the government would never do that", I will no longer be responding to additional comments. Yes, I know it's unfair for men. I don't disagree. War IS NOT FAIR OR EQUAL. I'm not basing my opinion on some anime type war where everything is solved with a children's card game. War creates inequality in practically every level of society in which the war is physically taking place. War creates desperation and unfair and inequitable legislation gets passed. It happens. Post war can and often is just as messy. It's not about what's right, its about having one's nation survive so that it can return to a state of civility where equality can prosper.

zonadedesconforto · 2022-04-26T16:49:18+00:00

I’d pretty much end compulsory military service and put some kind of social/environmental work in place. It would benefit both society and youth (regardless of gender) way more than military training.

AdamChap · 2022-04-26T18:43:45+00:00

In times of war all people should be trained to fight and defend themselves. However, in the end the only people you want fighting are those that want to and can. Considering my country has spent a lot of time and money scooping up people who fled wars I think any citizen of my country has the right to flee this country also.

SippingBinJuice · 2022-04-27T04:20:33+00:00

If it has to be done, make it gender neutral and also send the politicians to the front lines, so they can see first-hand what their decisions have cost.

alialahmad1997 · 2022-04-27T07:41:28+00:00

There should be consription to both gender but combat roles should be based on ability so basically mostly men

Mammoth_Salt_4509 · 2022-04-27T15:15:27+00:00

I am torn apart on this matter.

On one hand, military conscription goes against my deepest beliefs about human rights. I can never justify it morally. (That's why I voted the last option).

On the other hand, from a military point of view, it's a common tool for quickly building up an army. Strategically, it wouldn't make any sense for a country (e.g. Ukraine) not to adopt it, considering its widespread support worldwide.

Title	Thoughts on conscription
Author	NimishApte
Upvotes	45
Comments	93
Date	April 26, 2022 1:47 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/uccyss/thoughts_on_conscription/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/thoughts-on-conscription.1113345 https://theredarchive.com/post/1113345

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