Bodily Autonomy> Welfare of the Child> Financial Rights of the Father.
Obviously if the child is now born the first one drops off.
It's unfortunate for men that women have the final say in a pregnancy, and I would personally be unwilling to accept my SO having an abortion without my input, but nobody has the right to tell a woman that she has to have an abortion.
Financial responsibility for your child is part of sex and only a weak and pathetic man completely lacking in character would insist on not supporting their own offspring.
if woman lies as to using birth control for example - which happens. Or digs out a condom from the trash. Or (insert multitude of options here, including having a partner on the side, i.e. paternity scam). There are many possibilities,
There are certainly many possibilities, but they are rare. There isn't a contingency plan for every situation and that's what we have a court system for. Whether the court system is flawed is another conversation.
Right now, there are none options, just obligations and expectations. We dont even have a say wheter or not woman can abort OUR child - she has all rights, no obligation at the moment : she can abort or not, she can leave the kid at the hospital or not, she will receive support if she chooses to have it. What options a man has? Oh, right. None. We are to shut up and work/pay as expected.
Poor baby.
Life sucks. Women have power and are also powerless in this situation depending on how you look at it.
In a perfect world, everyone would agree on everything and no accidents would happen.
You still can't force medical procedures on people and you still have to take care of your children. That's life.
Everyone has rights and some rights have to take priority over the rights of others. My right to breath clean air trumps someone else's right to smoke in my house.
The rights of a child to be cared for trump the rights of their parents to live without responsibilities. The rights of a woman to not undergo surgical procedures that have risks of complications trump the rights of a man to demand that she do so.
Judgement calls. Intelligent people can make them and whiny little babies need to cry about rare hypotheticals.
Its about existence of that possibility, and if women get support and options, its only fair for men to have the same options.
Those options affecting either party in vastly differing ways is why the options are slanted to one side.
Its not whining, its the definition of the word "equality"
It's equality in that 5 year olds should also have driver's licenses and the right to vote, or that millionaires should be able to collect welfare. The circumstances are relevant, as are the potential outcomes.
If a man impregnates a woman and is forced to care for his child, he won't die. If a woman is forced to have an abortion, she could die. If a child is born with a deadbeat dad, his life will be worse. The potential harm exists for all 3 parties, but the least potential harm is to men in this scenario.
women and feminists just LOVE to throw around if it only suits their needs and agenda. Do you call their talk "whining" ?
You generalize a lot. I find some feminists to be whiny. I find some MRAs to be whiny. It depends on the person and the issue. You have some serious issues with women.
...How the fuck can you itemize every expenditure though? The amount of laundry with a kid increases exponentially. Extra water, extra laundry detergent, extra time spent doing laundry. The amount of food wasted because the kid drops it on the floor accidentally, or refuses to eat it. Wear and tear to the house. Extra electricity. Extra gas money transporting a child. DAYCARE costs (In my area, bottom-level daycare for an infant is $1200 a month. Currently paying $1000 a month for an AVERAGE prek/ daycare for my 4 year old) Last-minute babysitters when you are stuck at work, HEALTH INSURANCE/ Medical costs, clothes, new shoes every 3 months, socks and underwear. My god, I spend at least $6 on socks for my kid every month alone (where the fuck do all these socks go?)
Bath toys, toys in general, bubble bath, shampoo, conditioner, delta going spray, barrettes, ponytail holders, sunscreen, mosquito-spray, special fabric cleaner to remove the urine smell from when your toilet-training kid accidentally pees on the carpet.
Maybe spend $2 extra dollars to buy pre-washed and pre-cut veggies for the casserole instead of the 10 extra minutes of aggravation spent trying to chop vegetables with a sharp knife while simultaneously keep your 2 year old away from the hot oven, or from climbing the bookcase, or whatever.
A day trip to the zoo costs $20.00, just for ADMISSION. Forget about the cost of gas, special attractions, or God-forbid, if the kid gets thirsty and wants a bottle of water. Before I had a child, I tidyed up everyday, and vacuumed, mopped, scrubbed the toilets/ baths once a week. Now I have to vacuum and mop every single day, in at least a portion of the house. I don't think anybody in this thread actually has a child.
because it's their body. They are responsible. and men should be able to leave clean cut because women can with abortion. Also prostitution should be legal. That's true equality.
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Child support is a small part of being a parent.
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Bodily Autonomy> Welfare of the Child> Financial Rights of the Father.
Obviously if the child is now born the first one drops off.
It's unfortunate for men that women have the final say in a pregnancy, and I would personally be unwilling to accept my SO having an abortion without my input, but nobody has the right to tell a woman that she has to have an abortion.
Financial responsibility for your child is part of sex and only a weak and pathetic man completely lacking in character would insist on not supporting their own offspring.
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If someone doesn't understand that pregnancy is a risk associated with intercourse, they aren't capable of consenting to said intercourse.
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There are certainly many possibilities, but they are rare. There isn't a contingency plan for every situation and that's what we have a court system for. Whether the court system is flawed is another conversation.
Poor baby.
Life sucks. Women have power and are also powerless in this situation depending on how you look at it.
In a perfect world, everyone would agree on everything and no accidents would happen.
You still can't force medical procedures on people and you still have to take care of your children. That's life.
Everyone has rights and some rights have to take priority over the rights of others. My right to breath clean air trumps someone else's right to smoke in my house.
The rights of a child to be cared for trump the rights of their parents to live without responsibilities. The rights of a woman to not undergo surgical procedures that have risks of complications trump the rights of a man to demand that she do so.
Judgement calls. Intelligent people can make them and whiny little babies need to cry about rare hypotheticals.
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An embryo is not a child.
Those options affecting either party in vastly differing ways is why the options are slanted to one side.
It's equality in that 5 year olds should also have driver's licenses and the right to vote, or that millionaires should be able to collect welfare. The circumstances are relevant, as are the potential outcomes.
If a man impregnates a woman and is forced to care for his child, he won't die. If a woman is forced to have an abortion, she could die. If a child is born with a deadbeat dad, his life will be worse. The potential harm exists for all 3 parties, but the least potential harm is to men in this scenario.
You generalize a lot. I find some feminists to be whiny. I find some MRAs to be whiny. It depends on the person and the issue. You have some serious issues with women.
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BBC is fairly left leaning and very pro EU. No idea why it's be considered central tbh.
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...How the fuck can you itemize every expenditure though? The amount of laundry with a kid increases exponentially. Extra water, extra laundry detergent, extra time spent doing laundry. The amount of food wasted because the kid drops it on the floor accidentally, or refuses to eat it. Wear and tear to the house. Extra electricity. Extra gas money transporting a child. DAYCARE costs (In my area, bottom-level daycare for an infant is $1200 a month. Currently paying $1000 a month for an AVERAGE prek/ daycare for my 4 year old) Last-minute babysitters when you are stuck at work, HEALTH INSURANCE/ Medical costs, clothes, new shoes every 3 months, socks and underwear. My god, I spend at least $6 on socks for my kid every month alone (where the fuck do all these socks go?)
Bath toys, toys in general, bubble bath, shampoo, conditioner, delta going spray, barrettes, ponytail holders, sunscreen, mosquito-spray, special fabric cleaner to remove the urine smell from when your toilet-training kid accidentally pees on the carpet.
Maybe spend $2 extra dollars to buy pre-washed and pre-cut veggies for the casserole instead of the 10 extra minutes of aggravation spent trying to chop vegetables with a sharp knife while simultaneously keep your 2 year old away from the hot oven, or from climbing the bookcase, or whatever.
A day trip to the zoo costs $20.00, just for ADMISSION. Forget about the cost of gas, special attractions, or God-forbid, if the kid gets thirsty and wants a bottle of water. Before I had a child, I tidyed up everyday, and vacuumed, mopped, scrubbed the toilets/ baths once a week. Now I have to vacuum and mop every single day, in at least a portion of the house. I don't think anybody in this thread actually has a child.
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because it's their body. They are responsible. and men should be able to leave clean cut because women can with abortion. Also prostitution should be legal. That's true equality.
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