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Major backlash after Toronto's "no-beards rule" leads to over 100 Sikh security guards being laid off | News

BrokeMacMountain

July 6, 2022
695 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/sikh-security-guards-toronto-no-beards-rule
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Post Information
Title Major backlash after Toronto's "no-beards rule" leads to over 100 Sikh security guards being laid off | News
Author

BrokeMacMountain

Upvotes 695
Comments 182
Date July 6, 2022 10:07 AM UTC
(4 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vsmgsk/major_backlash_after_torontos_nobeards_rule_leads/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/major-backlash-after-torontos-no-beards-rule-leads.1122841
https://theredarchive.com/post/1122841
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Comments

[–]gunpackingcrocheter 285 points286 points287 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

When I worked for Disney you couldn’t have more than a mustache. I once asked why this rule wasn’t applied to female cast members, it went well lol!

[–]AnAgentOfMyOwnMaking 52 points53 points54 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Madlad over here

[–]Njaulv 41 points42 points43 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There are public schools in the USA where you cannot have more than a mustache or long hair or color your hair if you are a guy. A rastafarian student stood up against this based on religious beliefs. They usually have dreads and are not allowed to cut their hair. I don't remember what came of that kid's case but there ya have it.

[–]mixing_saws 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thats blatant discrimination, but when its done in the name of feminism its suddenly okay.

[–]ne14611braska 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Aren't there a ton of genies and stuff - I'm not into Disney myself - but... a long beard would make you super employable, surely?

[–]pappo4ever 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I guess Captain Jack Sparrow wasn't well received then.

[–]suprmmman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

ha I laughed out loud at this.

[–]LELO_TV 479 points480 points481 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

I guess "my body my choice" doesn't apply to men 🤷🏻‍♂️

[–]Monster3gamez 104 points105 points106 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Oh woman can do whatever they want there choice but so is my wallet so remember that 🤣

[–]YouthfulCommerce 51 points52 points53 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

but so is my wallet

thats why feminists look towards daddy government to take your money by force

[–]mixing_saws -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

How they wanna do that?

[–]throwawayincelacc 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Child support and alimony in a more direct manner.

In some countries women have lower age of retirement (to receive benefits) despite women disproportionally having longer lifespans. Even without these different ages of retirement, it's shown women receive far more benefits from the government than men.

And indirect women only benefits such as government funded helplines and shelters for women only, or laws / police policy that only really help women meaning police costs (paid for more by men) help women more.

All of these benefits are funded by taxes and the government has the power to raise taxes as they want.

Simply not paying taxes may be a choice, but it's a risk at the same time.

[–]mixing_saws 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the explanation

[–]Illustrious_Eagle_67 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women usually retain custody of children due to abandonment.

[–]w_cruice 52 points53 points54 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Check who makes and who takes. Your wallet is being violated regularly, often before the dollars even get to you...

[+]Monster3gamez -13 points-12 points-11 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I don't even use dollars 🤣

[–]w_cruice 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Funny you're being down voted. I guess people don't believe in yuan, pounds sterling, rubles, rupees, lire, yen, Bitcoin, etc. (Shrug) Principle is still true.

[–]throwawaygoodvibess 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

pesos! haha

[–]Monster3gamez 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't even use those as our main curency

[–]redditmodsareshits 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Principle is still true

Not with bitcoin if done right.

[–]TheStabs[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It fucking doesn't, ever heard of circumcision?

[–]xdzgor 357 points358 points359 points 4 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

Regardless religious reasons, beards are a natural part of most men's anatomy. This is totally sex discrimination.

[–]NegativeOrchid 39 points40 points41 points 4 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

Try telling the US military that.

[–]stomper4x413 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And UPS. Or is that not a thing anymore.

[–]ne14611braska 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

UK Navy is your bolt-hole if you are simultaneously pogonophilic and militaristic.

[–]NegativeOrchid 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You still gotta shave in navy, no?

[–]Tenshi2369 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

At least the military has a legit reason.

[–]NegativeOrchid 17 points18 points19 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The real reason is conformity.

[–]ne14611braska 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

how do you people find each other? :)

[–]NegativeOrchid 12 points13 points14 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

It’s been proven that masks seal effectively with or without facial hair.

[–]Tenshi2369 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I get that. The issue lies with every enlisted man being able to do that under pressure. There's also the uniform. Granted, IF you get to SF it becomes very lax.

[–]NegativeOrchid 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

SF still is supposed to follow policy but they don’t cause they don’t care.

[–]Tenshi2369 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

This is true. The amount they care scales with their level. Delta doesn't give a flying crap.

[–]NegativeOrchid 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Regular army cares about the wrong things like shaving regulations. SF cares about the right things, which is why they are considered professionals but also has to do with blending into a territory.

[–]Tenshi2369 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Very true. While deployed to the middle east, gis were encouraged to grow a beard as in that area, a bead is a sign of manhood.

[–]redditmodsareshits 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

in that area, a bead is a sign of manhood.

in any area.

[–]TheNerdWonder 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Unless you've got certain skin issues and require a shaving profile. Seen plenty of soldiers and marines with trimmed and short beards because they get really bad razor bumps otherwise.

[–]pappo4ever 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Try telling the US military that.

Even the Spartans shaved when going to war and they loved their beards, they had many practical reasons to do that.

[–]tacolover2k4 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Have friends in the forces, I can assure you it’s way way worse than you think

[–]NegativeOrchid -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Forces? What the hell you mean by that. I was in the army

[–]TheNerdWonder 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, that has more to do with gas mask fitting supposedly but I'm not sure how when other militaries aren't as strict and do similar CBRN training. Only way I can think of is the gas masks are different than the US ones.

[–]Awe_Rux 105 points106 points107 points 4 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

Try saying women should stop dunking blue paint cans on their head and see what happens to you.

[–]ANIKET_UPADHYAY 19 points20 points21 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

What?

[–]Smitty1017 66 points67 points68 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

I think he's questioning the reaction if a job denied women from dying their hair

[–]ColonelVirus 36 points37 points38 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Our dress code doesn't allow non natural hair colours. So you can't come in one day with your hair bright blue/green/pink/purple.

[–]GreekTacos 31 points32 points33 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I find it ironic/funny that in nature animals with bright colors are intended to warn other animals of its poison or toxicity.

[–]DoingHisBest 19 points20 points21 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Or attract mates, like in peacocks or other birds

[–]Gatesofvalhalla 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

it's mostly always the males who are more eyecatching in the animal kingdom. It's not just used for mating, but if a predator has to kill some of the species, it's most likely a male so the rest of the species has a way to survive.

[–]ne14611braska 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think we've lost sight of the way it makes the opposition feel.

[–]Huffers1010 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

To be completely fair, at least some jobs do. And not many jobs prohibit beards.

Not that either is great.

[–]ANIKET_UPADHYAY 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Problem with beards here (for Sikhs) is that its a religious obligation.

[–]ne14611braska 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

How short, though? I've got a longer beard than my Sikh colleague. Just wondering. I'm Christian - and it's all fine by me, at least.

[–]ANIKET_UPADHYAY 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know exactly but it's one of the 5 obligations in Sikhism.

[–]aknabi 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Expecting logical consistency from a feminist is like expecting a dog to solve differential equations.

[–]TextDependent6779 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

im pretty sure you'd have better luck with the dog.

[–]TAPriceCTR 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wooshed me too.

[–]TheNerdWonder 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's just obnoxious whataboutery that recycles an old overused joke that isn't serious about men's rights or as funny as it used to be.

[–]Awe_Rux 226 points227 points228 points 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

no-beards rule

Can Canada just fast forward to the point where men have to wear cages to contain their toxic masculinity please? Let's stop beating around the bushes.

[+]JSutt771 -135 points-134 points-133 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Or we can read the article and understand the rule was put into place because of the respirators they had to wear, and a beard prevents a proper seal

[–]Awe_Rux 119 points120 points121 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

They are security guards, not neurosurgeons. The article states their masks aren't compatible with their beards. In that case, fuck the masks? Isn't that the reason we gave pharmaceuticals trillions of tax paying dollars, so we could inject ourselves with dozens of jabs and NOT have to wear masks?

[–]A9SteakSauce 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

just happened in my place of work, i normally shave but i had just tried to grow it out for a few weeks

we had one guy quit and dudes who had beards for several years all shaved

[–]Razvedka 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

This rule exists in militaries for the same reason. Your (gas) mask needs to have a proper seal to function. So you can't have facial hair.

[–]JonSnowsGhost 21 points22 points23 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

This rule exists in militaries for the same reason. Your (gas) mask needs to have a proper seal to function.

Except that the no beards rule applies to the entire military (at least the US), regardless of job. Lawyers, doctors, mechanics, etc. will never have to wear a gas mask in the line of duty, but have to shave anyway.

Other militaries, like the British and Australian allow beards. It's more for appearance than anything else.

[–]Razvedka 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Well yeah, that kinda makes sense with the military. You never know when there may be an immediate need for some kind of respirator (if the base is attacked, etc).

[–]JonSnowsGhost 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well yeah, that kinda makes sense with the military.

It's kinda like you didn't even read my comment. "... will never have to wear a gas mask in the line of duty, but have to shave anyway."

I can assure you that the vast majority of military bases do not have a huge supply of gas masks/respirators on hand for every person to readily use. Military vessels do, as do shore based security personnel, but random JAG officers or cooks aren't walking around with masks ready to go.

I also pointed out entire militaries that allow beards, even though they may also one day be under an attack that could include some kind of CBR weapon.

[–]Razvedka -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I did read your comment, and yes I already was privvy to everything in the post. I just don't agree that your argument is strong enough to warrant changing my opinion. There will always be exceptions, like SOF due to needing to interact with locals and that's fine. And yes, obviously, the military doesn't have a mask on hand for every one of their people.

I just don't understand why chance anything? What possible benefit is there in saying "well ok these people and those, can just ignore facial hair regs forever. But not the rest of you."

I'm not saying I don't see the merit in your point, I just wouldn't mess with it. Exceptions based on pragmatism are always going to exist. But this isn't a concession rooted in practicality. Even if the overwhelming majority of personnel will never be in danger of chemical agents, and even if yes there's not typically masks on hand for most it's just simpler to have the regs.

[–]JonSnowsGhost 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What possible benefit is there in saying "well ok these people and those, can just ignore facial hair regs forever. But not the rest of you."

So that they can still fill those roles? If the military said "no one is exempt from shaving or hair regulations, except for medical reasons" that would stop a large number of people from joining the military. The concession to allow people to shave or grow out their hair for religious reasons is a small one, compared to expecting people to completely forego core tenants of their religion.

But this isn't a concession rooted in practicality.

Except that it is. The military deemed it practical to allow some people to not have to shave, because the potential risk to that person is heavily outweighed by the benefit of having that person in the military.

it's just simpler to have the regs.

For most people, the regs are simple. You have to shave and maintain your hair in certain standards, unless you qualify for very specific and comparatively rare exceptions.

I just don't understand why chance anything?

Why chance what? Being cleanshaven or not has zero effect on the performance of the vast majority of military jobs.

[–]hedic 16 points17 points18 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

And Sikhs get an exception to that at least in the US military.

[–]JonSnowsGhost 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And Sikhs everyone get an exception to that at least in the US military.

So do all submariners while on deployment.

[–]Razvedka 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That sounds like a terrible idea.

[–]ChadWolf98 15 points16 points17 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why would the state's face diaper rule be more important than their religious right to have a beard or their bodily autonomy, or right to self expression?

[–]andejoh -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Of course a person's religion magically causes the masks to seal properly hence they're working on granting exemptions for religion. /s

[–]hedic 30 points31 points32 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not only was this discrimination it was also dumb as hell. Protecting people is literally a part of their religion. You can't buy that kind of dedication to a job.

[–]Childconsumerman 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for your kind words

[–]GltyUntlPrvnInncnt 45 points46 points47 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There has been a lot of talking about bodily autonomy lately. I guess it's only for women.

[–]AppropriateNet8777 95 points96 points97 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It seems that Canada has been becoming more n more authoritarian in the past few years, to me atleast.

[–]MirrorofInk 65 points66 points67 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Trudeau is attempting to lead the country into totalitarianism, and he's not even trying to hide his intentions. His entire government must be removed from power.

[–]w_cruice 17 points18 points19 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Canada is not alone in thet regard.

[–]w_cruice 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Canada is not alone in that regard.

[–]NovaSierra123 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Trudeaulitarian.

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Childconsumerman 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks bro

[–]xx_DEADND_xx 65 points66 points67 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My body my what?

[–]Large-Cherry 26 points27 points28 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Sikhs are some of the most brave and respectful of all people... what a shame to lose them as security guards for something as dumb as this. The country is less safe because of this. Shame.

[–]Sarin03 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Im assuming Sikhs are some form of religion?

[–]TextDependent6779 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Sikhism.

it is indeed a religion. i believe its of indian origin and fuses concepts from both hinduism and Islamic beliefs.

[–]Large-Cherry 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not a sikh but you're wrong. Sikh is closer to budism. I spent some time learning about them when I was homeless and had no food, I went to a sikh temple called a Gurdwara and a big thing with them is that they believe in equality, true equality, unlike every other religion... oh and they feed you there, regardless of cast creed or religion. And the food is great. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the local sikh community.

[–]TextDependent6779 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

idk, its been some time. i do have a base knowledge in most of the major religions, but it was so long ago that the information is hard to recall.

so im just gonna rake you at your word and say, thanks for correcting me!

oh and they feed you there, regardless of cast creed or religion. And the food is great. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the local sikh community

and this is just totally awesome. Sikhism has always been one of my favourite religions for their acceptance.

[–]Sarin03 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks

[–]ExpensiveQuit7099 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sikhism being a fusion of Hinduism and Islamic beliefs is a huge misconception, it actually originated in Pakistan (nankana sahib).

[–]CawlinAlcarz 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh hey look! More body autonomy from Canada.

[–]Gingerchaun 39 points40 points41 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

The only time it's acceptable to force someone to shave for work is when it's requires a positive fit test on respirators.

The mask has to be able to suction onto your face basically.

[–]PigTenis 25 points26 points27 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, I can also think of actors. You could ask the actor to shave for role.

[–]hedic 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And only then if the respirator is absolutely necessary for the job.

[–]anoncitizen4 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Or they can provide positive air pressure hoods in place of mask type.

[–]moriginal 16 points17 points18 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

“The City had put a policy in place requiring security guards to be clean-shaven to ensure their N95 respirators, which are required by public health directives in shelter settings, offered efficient protection against COVID-19 on the job.”

This is literally the body Of the article

[–]Gingerchaun 22 points23 points24 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

N95s don't have positive fits. If you smell h2s you're already dead.

[+]NegativeOrchid -8 points-7 points-6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thing is it’s a total myth gas mask sealing capacity are less effective with facial hair. The whole facial hair regulations are about power and control.

[–]ForgotOldAcc-_- 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Canada went from the most based to the second biggest shithole of the western society real quick

[–]ne14611braska 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm wondering if it went any more bearded. I could immigrate to bearded and the shirts and all that.

[–]C7000x 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The first amendment don’t exist in Canada.

[–]fasterpastor2 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

As a Christian with a beard, I will fight for these Sikhs rights...never thought I'd say that.

[–]whtsnk 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the world that feminists want :(

[–]odysseytree 22 points23 points24 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Some feminists are definitely behind this policy.

[+]May_nerdd -14 points-13 points-12 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

What makes you say that?

[–]odysseytree 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

They often resort to solutions which can directly and indirectly cause impact on men.

[+]May_nerdd -9 points-8 points-7 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Like what?

[–]odysseytree 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Like asking for night curfew on men because of murder of a woman at night.

[–]May_nerdd -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I found an example of that happening where a woman suggested it to “make a point” about double standards being applied to women, and that it was “not entirely serious suggestion.” Nothing ever came of it anyways (besides a lot of outrage). Do you have any other, more serious examples?

[–]TextDependent6779 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

not neccasarily as a result of feminism, but i always like to point out Hermesmann v. Seyer which definitely has a negative impact on men.

and a "not entirely serious" suggestion still implies there was some seriousness behind it.

[–]May_nerdd 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Im not asking for decisions that negatively impact men, obviously there are a lot of those (the draft comes to mind). I’m asking for examples where feminists specifically pushed policies trying to hurt men. Preferably in the last 30 years (second wave feminism was kinda shitty)

[–]TextDependent6779 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

actually, you did just remind me of something .

have fun reading!

but no, seriously, i don't expect you to read all that. i haven't even read all that, but you can go through and have a look at some examples. one that springs to my mind is NOW (national organisation of women) opposing 50/50 custody laws.

also, i just can't stop pushing the Seyer case. way too many people don't know about it, and it's way too fucked up to be hidden.

[–]May_nerdd 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks, this is kinda what I was looking for

[–]odysseytree 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Now you are dismissing the answer of your question. You asked for what useless solution feminists come up with. Whether or not do you like the answer, my answer answers your question.

[–]JACSliver 14 points15 points16 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"No-beards"? Alright, No-money and No-visit for Toronto then.

[–]sunlitekid01 18 points19 points20 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

I don't know about this one. This was specifically for the N95 masking mandates during peak covid.

I also understand the religious aspect but I think this has more to do with the fact that public safety was allowed to trample on individual religious freedom.

[–]snarky-[🍰] 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Toronto wasn't allowing men with beards to be in that role regardless of whether they passed public health safety tests.

Under-mask beard covers enable the majority of bearded men to get a proper seal and past the mask fit test.

[+]sunlitekid01 -13 points-12 points-11 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Not with the N95. This was specifically for the N95. And even if it wasn't I don't think this is a "men rights" issue. That would imply that beards are inherent to being a "man" which they are not. I am a manager in a facility with masking requirements. I have goatee .. I am not allowed in certain rooms because of masking requirements..when i have the beard. The days I am clean-shaven I can go in with a mask. I don't think beard-discrimination is men-discrimination.. simply because the "discrimination" isn't across the board whether u hv the beard or not..

[–]btmims 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

... but they are. Just because you shave yours off, doesn't mean that you're not always growing a beard.

For 99% of the female population, they aren't growing beards. They might have some light facial hair, or even some darker, thicker facial-hair, but there aren't many biological females out there that are growing full-on beards.

[+]sunlitekid01 -10 points-9 points-8 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I take that you don't know any post menopausal women/trans men? This "descrimination" would be imposed in them too.. meaning it's not just for "men" its for anyone with a beard...or facial hair that gets in the way of the mask.. This law at best was a intrusion on a persons facial hair choices...not directed at "men" in any way.

[–]hedic 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't have to be directed at a group to be discriminatory. It only has to unfairly and disproportionately affect them. This beard mandate affects almost all men and almost no women. Kind of like kinky hair bans were not directed at black people but they sure as hell were racist.

[–]sunlitekid01 -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't affect all men especially not the ones without facial hair... it didn't even effect the ones that were laid off. All they had to do was shave so the mask fit.

The kinky hair argument wasn't ever based on safety equipment. It was only based on interpretation of "looks", looks are subjective, safety isnt. Its like when sikh men also get up in arms about the motorcycles helmet rule because they dont wanna wear helmets cuz their turbans get in the way. Its a safety rule. So I don't think there's any commonality between this type of "descrimination" that Sikh "men" experienced vs black ppl experience.

[–]hedic 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I said almost all men because I saw you already made an appeal to the extremes in a previous comment. it affects any man that can grow a beard. The Sikhs are a separate question because they are dealing with religious discrimination rather then gendered.

[–]sunlitekid01 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The article literally says.. only Sikh men were let go..due to their UNWILLINGNESS to shave.. it did not affect "all" men. It only affected a subsection of men ..a religious one. It may hv affected any man that can grown a beard..but it may hv also affected anyone with facial hair..so...again NOT DIRECTED AT MEN.. directed at ppl with facial hair.. Ppl on this sub lack nuance. A man's identity isn't tied to his hair... hair doesn't dictate the capacity of men being men.. and as such there is a different between attack on ur religious rights and attack on "men" in general..

[–]hedic 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Again it doesn't have to be DIRECTED to be discriminatory. You keep saying "people with facial hair" like we have droves of dwarven goddesses rolling around with lush beards. If this was the case you would be right but it's not. You discarded the example of kinky hair bans without even understanding it. If your rule affects a great majority of one protected class over another it's discriminatory. The occasional hirsute lady does not outweigh the fact it affects every man (barring alopecia).

I agree that it is a greater religious issue for the Sikhs but it's also a smaller gender issue for every man that was forced to modify his body. You might not care much about beards but you have no say in how the rest of us view our bodies and what we believe is important.

Ps. If we continue this conversation I'm going to have to look "affects" and "discriminatory" up in a thesaurus.

[–]btmims 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Post menopausal women may begin growing some facial hair. Women of certain ethnicities have a tendency to grow SOME facial hair. A BEARD is so dense that it could interfere with a mask's seal to the face.

As for trans... sounds like you don't think of FtM as men... and by association, you must not think of MtF as women, you bigot

[–]sunlitekid01 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I said trans men because you said "99% of female don't grow beards" this isn't true. Also the point of the N95 mask wasn't to distinguish between a "beard" and "some facial hair". The ban affected humans that choose to keep their facial hair..that got in the way of the mask fitting. It wasn't a "men" issue...at all.

[–]btmims 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Site your sources. I have seen plenty of post-menopausal women, and have never seen one with facial hair that remotely approaches what people would call a "beard"

Also, pretty sure trans make up less than 1% of the population

[–]chakan2 -5 points-4 points-3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You have that backwards... Religious freedom was allowed to trample on public safety.

[–]ne14611braska 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Evidence?

[–]strawberryredpanda4 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This is upsetting. We love the Sikhs and I love my long uncut, colored hair and my long untrimmed beard. Love from Wisconsin.

[–]delocalelectron 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just Gillette trying to recoup some of their lost market share. By force.

[–]throwawayincelacc 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Canada which had one of the worst responses to covid in the entire first world suddenly lays off 100 security guards because their N95 don't seat as well?

We're restricted from vaccines (because of federal incompetence in obtaining them), we were told masks are not important or helpful (at the start of the pandemic), we were told Covid posed no threats to Canadians, and covid restrictions were all lifted as soon as cases per day declined so they could promote business reopenings. But yea, let's blame the bearded security guards for covid.

[–][deleted] 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]elpoyolocho 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sikh comment

[–]sunlitekid01 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This...

[–]butt_mucher -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

“A large number of women have beards” please go be a moron somewhere else.

[–]modsarebrainstems 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Because...? I mean why is this a rule in the first place?

Toronto is a place that gets shit on by the rest of Canada because it often gets the "we're the center of the world" label applied to it. But one of the things Toronto likes to boast about is its cultural diversity and whatever other government buzzwords about tolerance and inclusion come along. So, with that in mind, it makes no sense to me at all that Toronto, of all places, would be ignorant of cultural grooming requirements.

[–]ne14611braska 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So, is your point that "Yes, this statue is what it is, but this is my take on it?", or you don't say anything? Seems like you're opting for the former. So campaign for it. Ask for a plaque - that way you're not obscuring history.

So yes, keep 'controversial' statues there, but have a plaque taking the modern take on things. People, I'm from Poland. If we had all of our white-on-white racism recorded, we'd have whole books of history written about it.

Peace, all.

[–]modsarebrainstems 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry but I have no clue what you're talking about.

[–]JSutt771 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You can tell who in this thread read the article and who is reacting to the title.

[–]ne14611braska 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fupp off. This is our thread. Go over there. No swearing, mind.

[–]aidank91 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I had to shave when getting fit for a respirator in an industrial setting. But I understood I rather save my lungs then sport the beard if required.

[–]OctaviaPinfold -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This has nothing to do with men's rights, people not complying with safety regulations were never allowed to just ignore them.

[–]ne14611braska 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Too many non-negatives. Are you a coat-hanger?

[+]Sparrowphone -6 points-5 points-4 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

This has nothing to do with men's rights. People who need to wear a n95 mask to do their job shouldn't have beards.

Remember how much it annoys you when feminists make something that's not sexist into sexism?

Don't be like that.

[–]snarky-[🍰] 20 points21 points22 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

A blanket rule can be discriminatory if a group of people are disproportionately affected without justifiable reason.

Some men can pass the fit test for an adequate seal with a beard. Most men with beards will pass if using the ‘Singh Thattha’ method (sort of making a beard turban).

So arguably, a strict "no beards" rule is unnecessary. The rule should be, "can you pass the standard set?".

It really matters for some religious men, as many Sikh, Jewish and Muslim men can't shave for religious reasons. A lazy blanket rule excludes them from jobs for arguably no reason. As beards are a male sex characteristic, it's also a men's issue.

[–]hedic 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'll add that there are plenty of spaces that require security that wouldn't also require masking. They could have just been assigned to those instead.

[–]Sparrowphone -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you read the article, that is exactly what happened.

[–]hedic 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I read the article twice and it said nothing of the sort.

[+]diamondDizzle123 -11 points-10 points-9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The option should still be there though. Yes the efficacy of the masks drops massively however it shouldn’t be down to daddy government to tell people they have no choice. They should be allowed to sign a waiver saying if anything happens it’s on them. We don’t give people any agency over their lives anymore. Also Trudeau will be shitting his frilly knickers about the law suit coming

[–]RadioUnfriendly -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Dat's waycist.

Fear of covid is more important than racism.

No it's not!

Yes it is!

[–]DirtyPartyMan 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just over here, doing your thing, taking all the arguments eh?

smiles

I kind of expected that convo in the comments. So I thank you for breaking it down and condensing it into satire

[+]chakan2 -11 points-10 points-9 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

“No one should have to choose between their faith and paying the bills

Incorrect...you SHOULD have to choose between your faith and public health.

[–]hedic 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Incorrect. Public health policy SHOULD be structured in a nondiscriminatory way.

[+]chakan2 -10 points-9 points-8 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Let me know when you get the viruses to understand they can't attack people with beards because it might be discrimination.

[–]hedic 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You might want to try that sentence again.

[–]w_cruice 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Public health is a frequent excuse of tyrants.

[+]chakan2 -7 points-6 points-5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL...omg...lol. Phew...<chuckle>

[+]miserybusiness21 -7 points-6 points-5 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Religion is a choice. Religion has rules and people choose to follow them. If they choose not to follow them, excommunication.

Working is a choice. Working has rules and people choose to follow them. If they choose not to follow them, ex-employee.

If you religion matters more than your job, don't work a job that conflicts with your religion. End of story.

[–]QueeniTika 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No it is wrong for a job to require men to shave their beards just like it is wrong for a job to tell Black people that they cannot wear their natural hair. You cannot tell someone they cannot do something that they’re body naturally does.

That is discrimination if it’s because of the religion then it’s a religious discrimination there are reasons why we have laws in place to stop people from telling religious people that what they can and cannot do. People have the freedom to follow whatever religion they would like and they deserve protection under the law to follow their religious practices including growing beards and covering their hair, just like certain cultural practices should be allowed like head wraps and the dots that Indians put on their heads.

Religion just isn’t a choice it’s a lifestyle.

[–]whtsnk 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If they choose not to follow them, excommunication.

You have a very limited view of religion.

[–]hedic -5 points-4 points-3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Saying religion is a choice is like saying you have a choice between shitting in the kitchen or shitting in the toilet. Technically true but one is obviously right.

[–]chakan2 -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

That's apt... Religion is like shitting in the kitchen.

[–]hedic -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Your neck beard atheism aside, exactly. Telling someone to choose between what they believe is a clear right or wrong decision is not really a choice at all.

[+]chakan2 -6 points-5 points-4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The health of society is simply more important than magic fairytales.

You're literally making an antivaxx argument.

[–]hedic 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Rights are always going to be a balancing act. Imperfect mask seal is such a minor issue especially when most people didn't even wear their masks right anyways. To ostracize an entire section of society over something so small is wrong. This rule did not appreciably increase the health of society for what it cost.

Side note. It's kinda funny we are both negative karma. I don't see that often.

[–]Childconsumerman 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey bro don’t call religion a magic fairytale have you not a sense of respect my freind?

[–]DirtyPartyMan -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Sikhs are peaceful people. If the Toronto government doesn’t like Muslims they should just say so.

Paper & Cloth Covid Masks don’t need clean shaven faces. M19’s do but who’s wearing those outside of the infectious disease wards in hospitals?

[–]whtsnk 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Sikhs are peaceful people.

Most of us, yes. But please don’t put us on a pedestal.

[–]pappo4ever 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Most of us, yes. But please don’t put us on a pedestal.

That's something a Sikh would say.

[–]DirtyPartyMan 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I would never. Kindness can be found everywhere. So can cruelty.

I go Case by Case. So far my experiences have been kind.

[–]ne14611braska 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

My favourite drinking people. It starts out as a 'tasting', ends up with someone FINDING something and wanting to have it returned, and an orderly goodnight. And I'm Polish.

[–]whtsnk 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My favourite drinking people.

I don’t know about the people you hang out with, but we don’t drink. It’s very much forbidden.

[–]jessi387 -5 points-4 points-3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why is this ? Why did Toronto decides beards are not okay

[–]nerdy-awesome-guy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

At this point, I gladly welcome anything to destroy this planet to save the other planets.

[–]pappo4ever 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Imagine Christians, Jews and Muslims joining to fight against Toronto. I didn't see that coming.

[–]suprmmman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Weird? Why??

[–]Illustrious_Eagle_67 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It is not discrimination. All people have to follow the same rules. Religion and ethnicity claims do not change egalitarian, neutral rules.

[–]Illustrious_Eagle_67 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The rules apply to everyone. They are not discriminatory.

[–]miraak2077 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

this was about masks being properly fitted and it was in homeless shelters. but okay

[–]TuBachle[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This isn't Men's Rights, it's Religious Rights. I have to shave every day before work for safety reasons as well. You can bet that I'd also be fired if I disagreed with those safety rules

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