Men still expected to pay for everything while dating.

SirSkeptic · 2015-08-29T10:51:19+00:00

There was just so much sexism, double-standards and cognitive dissonance there ... I don't know where to start.

Ultimately, paying the bill on a date shows appreciation.

So what does the woman do to show appreciation? Apparently nothing.

I’ve been on coffee dates with guys where they didn’t pay for my coffee.

That's the definition of entitlement. Who are you? The Queen?

if he doesn’t offer to pay, it’s definitely a turnoff

So it turns you on if he does pay? You're a prostitute. That's okay, just own it.

most women dating men do want them to pay in the beginning, to set the tone for what’s to come.

Oh, that's a bad sign. You have to keep paying.

But a surprising number of men believe that paying for dinner and dates is nothing more than a thinly veiled exchange of money for sex. This is total fucking nonsense. The ‘men’ who perpetrate this line of garbage are angry misogynists who spend all their time trying to sleep with gold-diggers because their mothers didn’t hug them enough. Fuck those guys. If you’re one of them, get your shit together

Actually they love women and are trying not to sleep with gold-diggers.

By expecting a man to pay simply because he is a man, I was inadvertently maintaining a history of repression, where men are viewed as in control and we women are still viewed as helpless.

So ... by demanding that he work for you and serve you and treat you like his superior ... you made yourself look helpless. That's some world class mental gymnastics right there. 10.0, 9.8, 10.0

If you appreciate your time with someone, you should show her. (emphasis mine)

Once again, exactly what has she done to show her appreciation of him?

she advised women to offer to pick up the popcorn at a movie, or cover valet parking;

So ... both pay for the first date. You've just spent the entire article saying only the man should pay, and now you support this?

rottingchrist · 2015-08-29T10:20:15+00:00

Toxic feminity.

GenderNeutralLanguag · 2015-08-29T13:53:16+00:00

TL;DR version

Women are like sex vending machines. Men need to pay real money for "kindness coins" to put into the machine and hope sex falls out.

And Feminists wonder where "Nice Guys" get this idea from.

garglemesh42 · 2015-08-29T11:30:31+00:00

The man should pay on the first date, always. It’s meant to set the tone.

Look, if you want to be a whore, that's your own business. That doesn't mean I have to enable you. Seriously, if women insist that men have to pay for the company of a woman, with a chance of sex, is it really all that different from paying for a hooker? Other than the fact that the woman you're on a date with can decide to say "no" after you've already paid and won't offer you a refund.

PAY. FOR. YOUR. OWN. SHIT.

Tmomp · 2015-08-29T11:57:50+00:00

ctrl-f "should": 14 matches

That article likes telling people what they should and shouldn't do.

Why not let people live their lives? Why feel so compelled to boss people around?

Doesn't any semblance of "her body her choice" migrate in any way for your mind to allow men some autonomy, or do you only believe they should follow orders? Is it so frustrating when they do act with agency that you have to write an article about it instead of learning more about them and enjoying them for who they are instead of your fantasy?

aesopstortoise · 2015-08-29T15:15:32+00:00

"When you ask a woman to split the bill, it will friend-zone you, because it doesn’t feel like what just happened was a date. It’s confusing to a woman. You don’t need to pay forever, but you do need to pay in the beginning.”

Correction, " You do need to pay forever, and you do need to pay in the beginning.”

FTFY.

Elvick · 2015-08-29T16:00:56+00:00

few seemingly frivolous issues have fanned the flames of anti-feminism as much as who should pay for dates between men and women.

I wouldn't call it frivolous. That money you'd be spending on a date for someone else could be put toward rent or house payments, car payments or insurance, home repairs, debts, and other important needs.

Why should you have to sacrifice your hard earned money to pay for an ENTIRE date?

Why? News flash: it’s not about the money, it’s about what the money signifies. “The man should pay on the first date, always. It’s meant to set the tone—that this is and was a date, not a networking opportunity or a new friendship,”

This makes no sense to me. Isn't the fact he asked you out on a date... the evidence of the fact it's a date? Can't you just ask "is this a date?" if it's not obvious or you're confused? You know, act like an adult?

I have a girl friend who would pay for me a lot, and I'm gay so it wasn't a "date". She is simply generous. Even if I tried to pay, or even just for myself, she'd insist. Once convincing the cashier to not take my money that was already in her hand [man that was frustrating!]. Once her, my boyfriend, and I had dinner and she snuck off to pay for us. That didn't make it a threesome date.

It speaks to a man’s values and shows that he is a gentleman. Most first dates are just a few cocktails, so this shouldn’t be a burden for men

One's gentleman is another's sexist...

And I'd like some evidence of the claim that most first dates are just a few cocktails. And even if it were, you can just say... "Most first dates are just a few cocktails, so this shouldn't be a burden to women to pay for themselves."

Ultimately, paying the bill on a date shows appreciation. It’s a gesture to let someone know you’re interested in them and appreciate them.

So if the woman doesn't pay she isn't appreciative or interested then. Got it.

That’s why I never suggest splitting the bill. A date should feel like a treat and it doesn’t when it becomes an accounting transaction.”

How does a date feel like a treat when you have paid the entire bill? Yevon, how self centered is this woman?

The treat is your interaction with another person you are interested in, if all goes well. If it doesn't, then the fact you both paid for yourself makes it fair and you can simply part ways. The only thing lost is some time.

Even if someone offers to pay for you, you should still offer to pay for yourself. I think that shows respect and appreciation.

Showing you’ve thought about the other person is what matters, and on a first date, paying is a way to do that.

Wow

the real rock bottom moment for me was when I said I was going up to the bar to get a drink and asked if he wanted anything (I wasn’t that thirsty but needed to break the tension). He said no but when I returned and reported that the bartender had generously comped my seltzer, he said he wished he’d known or he’d have ordered one! In that case, I was the one offering to pay, but instead of taking me up on it, he made himself seem like an extreme cheapskate. (Guys: don’t do this.)

Somehow I doubt you were giving off the "I'm buying" vibe, your entire article is how men should pay for first dates...

Horrible human being.

She suggests the guy pay for the first month, or until you’ve established that you’re in a committed relationship.

ie; men never stop paying as proven by the line right after.

While there are outliers, I think it’s safe to say based on everyone I’ve talked to and everything I’ve ever read about this subject that most women dating men do want them to pay in the beginning, to set the tone for what’s to come.

Just when you think it can't get worse... it does!

cydoken · 2015-08-29T15:35:14+00:00

"Most first dates are just a few cocktails, so this shouldn’t be a burden for men" --- Who the fuk is still having cocktail first dates? wtf is this 80's era shit.

DaneWhitman · 2015-08-29T15:49:29+00:00

This is what I'm talking about when I use the term "princess feminism."

At least most of the comments were ridiculing the article.

TheDude41 · 2015-08-29T12:23:00+00:00

Chivalry is shit.

Poor Tucker Max. He got taken out to the proverbial shed it appears.

wazzup987 · 2015-08-29T09:57:38+00:00

never had that while dating

ctlawguy · 2015-08-29T17:45:10+00:00

I'm not in the dating pool now (thank Dawkins!), but if I were, I'd want the woman to pay for her half and I'd make it clear beforehand.

Women and men should be equal, in all ways, period.

There's a good reason to do this, especially if you date online. You have to determine whether the woman is anything resembling her profile (and whether you actually get along), and to be expected to pay for a date with someone essentially sight unseen is completely unfair.

But this lays bare the sheer hypocrisy of feminism. Men traditionally paid for dates because men worked and had money and women did not; it was (and would be if the date went somewhere) the man's role to provide for and protect the woman. Today, women are empowered to work and support themselves (I was going to say they are "expected to," but in reality feminism does not permit society to expect ANYTHING of women).

There is no reason anymore why one gender should be expected to finance the entire cost of a date, other than that women (including feminists) enjoy the benefits of getting free drinks and meals, and their belief in "equality" is not going to stop them from demanding such benefits.

We all know feminism is not about equality, it is about women's self-interest dressed up as "equality" to make it sound more noble than it is. I would respect feminism more if it was just honest about what it was.

alclarkey · 2015-08-29T22:14:14+00:00

My sister was going to set me up on a date with one of her friends, and the woman demanded that I bring a rose. I noped out of that one. Not interested in someone making demands of me right out of the gate.

double-happiness · 2015-08-29T14:50:05+00:00

At a (first) date I went on recently I ended up paying for our drinks without even noticing or particularly planning to. I simply handed over my card to pay for my drink (this was a pay-when-you order type bar, as is standard in the UK) and the girl behind the bar simply charged me for both our drinks. It was only when I got home and was cleaning out my wallet I looked at the receipt and saw I had been charged for the whole round. I never got any thanks for it, shenever offered to pay for her own drink, and the girl behind the bar never asked if we wanted individual bills. As it happened, my date's drink cost nearly twice as much as mine, she was also significantly better off than me; whereas I am self-employed on sub-minumum wage income, she was salaried and owned both a car and her own flat, whereas I do not drive, and rent my home.

On a pragmatic level I think guys are probably just as well to bite the bullet and pay for drinks or a meal early on, lest they be perceived as a 'cheapskate'. It's unfortunate, but probably unlikely to change much any time soon. I doubt women's move into paid work has made much difference really.

ay_ch · 2015-08-29T14:32:50+00:00

I wonder what the author's opinion is about women at bars and nightclubs who accept drinks from strange men before turning-around and walking away from them?

Vorteth · 2015-08-29T16:15:52+00:00

I love my wife, during our dating she refused to let me pay for everything.

In fact in the rare occasion we didn't split the bill we just round robined the bill.

chocoboat · 2015-08-29T19:41:40+00:00

it's not about money at all

Easy to say that when it's not your money, Rachel.

Ultimately, paying the bill on a date shows appreciation.

And men don't need to be appreciated, apparently.

Based on her own dating history and her clients’ experiences, Tillman told Salon, “if he doesn’t offer to pay, it’s definitely a turnoff.”

And this is why the practice continues. Women are taught to feel entitled to being paid for, so men just have to deal with it. I don't see anyone suggesting that this is wrong or should change, no, you just tell men to deal with it.

And how do people react when men feel entitled to something in a relationship? Funny how I don't see anyone telling women to just deal with it when a man thinks he deserves sex, or deserves to make all the decisions, or deserves to control where she goes without him.

That's not how relationships should work. No one deserves anything or is owed anything.

wanked_in_space · 2015-08-29T19:46:53+00:00

The author of this article is the type of woman I always avoided when I was single and I encourage others to do the same.

If she expects you to pamper her at the start, it will never end.

IcarusBurning · 2015-08-29T15:02:45+00:00

“The man should pay on the first date, always. It’s meant to set the tone—that this is and was a date, not a networking opportunity or a new friendship,” founder of online dating concierge service eFlirt and author of “Love @ First Click,” told Salon. “It speaks to a man’s values and shows that he is a gentleman.

Delicious circular logic.

SCROTAL-SACK · 2015-08-29T18:22:48+00:00

Great way to weed out the one's who don't deserve your time if you think about it. If she expects you to pay - she's garbage, don't pay, drop and move on. If she insists to split - She qualifies for another date. Don't pay any time to entitled princesses. Use it to your advantage and think with the big head. She ain't the prize.

hailtotheking999 · 2015-08-30T08:39:28+00:00

When I was dating. I went on about 5 first dates in a row where I paid and we had a great time, but come time to ask for a second date, turns out I was just a dinner ticket. Gets frustrating really quick. I'm so glad I ended up with a sugar momma.

CrustythePrawn · 2015-08-29T13:24:04+00:00

More on this issue in a blog post at http://www.fighting4fair.com/uncategorized/weve-all-heard-of-the-gender-income-gap-but-is-there-an-expense-gap-working-draft/

Blutarg · 2015-08-29T16:03:58+00:00

LOL as if anyone should give half a shit what Tucker Max thinks about anything.

Spyder_J · 2015-08-29T18:29:12+00:00

“When a man pays for a string of dates for strangers and experiences entitlement or isn’t thanked or appreciated for these efforts it can burn him out."

Bingo.

PerniciousOne · 2015-08-30T03:55:06+00:00

the person who asked for the date to pay for it.

Since women typically do not ask men for dates this is just enforcing that men have to pay for women's company.

UnicornDemon · 2015-08-30T07:51:43+00:00

Avoiding double standards such as these are one of the highlights of being a gay man. Also:

But a surprising number of men believe that paying for dinner and dates is nothing more than a thinly veiled exchange of money for sex. This is total fucking nonsense

BWAHAHAHAHA!! Nonsense?! Then why does this double standard exist? What the fuck else could possibly cause men to put up with these laughably sexist expectations?

FrenchLama · 2015-08-30T12:06:17+00:00

" It’s meant to set the tone—that this is and was a date, not a networking opportunity or a new friendship "

So, the only thing separating a date from a networking opportunity is that the man pays ? You're doing it wrong..

garbledcluster · 2015-08-29T16:58:14+00:00

Men who pay on dates are just idiots and patently anti-male. Might as well get an escort mate, at least you're guaranteed to get laid.

Dullahan3470 · 2015-08-29T17:15:35+00:00

I always split the bill on the first few dates. (Or I use gift cards I got as gifts.). After that there's generally some back and forth where they treat me, I treat them.

No one has ever complained about this arrangement. If a woman is interested in you, she will pay. If not paying for her is enough to make her disinterested she's not worth your time.

Wargame4life · 2015-08-29T18:08:05+00:00

you can expect a gold plated rolls royce, makes no difference to me, i don't pander to entitled delusion. if you expect me to do everything and you give or do nothing in return, nothing will happen.

Electroverted · 2015-08-29T18:43:14+00:00

Well, it's Salon, so...

We basically took the troll bait.

_Eggs_ · 2015-08-29T20:22:18+00:00

A 2014 NerdWallet study found that 77 percent of over 1,000 U.S. respondents expected men to pick up the check on a first date.

I definitely thought that 77% statistic was about something else...

Sigbi · 2015-08-30T05:44:09+00:00

lol "experts". Pathetic

WWLadyDeadpool · 2015-08-29T14:54:41+00:00

The weird thing about this to me is the men who insist on maintaining this. I have, on two separate occasions, paid for a meal only to be met with legitimate anger.

Both of these guys were bigger guys, so I'm guessing female neediness makes them think that, as long as they have money, they can still get women, but if women don't need them, they're on their own.

moonmoon0100 · 2015-08-29T14:04:10+00:00

if anyone actually gets angry at this, which could just be because it's in news form, if you tell a girl that for special things you will pay but for dates and things both of you pay for your own stuff, I've found them to generally be happy with that.

Slink78 · 2015-08-29T14:52:14+00:00

I've always just gone back and forth... The first date generally being paid by whomever asked who out.

Sometimes I'll ask a man or a woman out, and in this case I'll expect to pay and I get a little flustered if my partner will try to split the check and I don't generally let them unless they are extremely insistant (money isnt worth fighting over)-- I asked you to come out and spend time with me, you agreed, let me cover this.

If they ask me out, I'll always offer to split the check, but generally if somebody says to me "I would like to take you to dinner on Tuesday" and they don't offer to pay for me I'd be a bit confused. I guess it's all about wording though, because if the date had been phrased as "wanna grab lunch on thursday with me?" I certainly wouldn't be thrown if they wanted to split the check. All my friends (women) operate in a relatively similar manner so I get confused when I hear about these women who expect men to pay for everything. The only time I ever feel somebody should (and even then, I'll always offer to pay my own way) pay for me is when they imply in the invitation that they are treating me to a night out.

istarchy · 2024-04-14T19:07:18+00:00

Men Still pay and it’s still fair because girls have much more expenses for themselves than guys do. All that beauty products that cost $$$, all those sanitary products. Tampons alone may cost just as much as her cost to the date.

All those clothes that cost far more, all that makeup and beauty products. All the other products that make those girls pretty which is why you asked her out in the first place are definently at a cost that the men never has to bear.

So the boy paying 100% actually is 50/50. She already paid her share by paying for herself to be beautiful which she had to pay for.

StopTop · 2015-08-29T17:50:09+00:00

Call me old fashioned, but I pay on the first date. It's $20 and a nice gesture towards a girl I'm attracted to. So what?

Colfax_Broadway · 2015-08-29T15:45:42+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Driveby_Dogboy · 2015-08-30T04:25:15+00:00

mensrights? more like womenswrongs, amirite?

Title	Men still expected to pay for everything while dating.
Author	Kyrile
Upvotes	182
Comments	124
Date	August 29, 2015 9:47 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3itx0g/men_still_expected_to_pay_for_everything_while/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/men-still-expected-to-pay-for-everything-while.972356 https://theredarchive.com/post/972356

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