CMV: Fairness is not code for getting what you want with no inconvenience.

Eastern-Action1384 · 2023-11-26T14:29:36+00:00

Life is unfair, and those who've faced its challenges often navigate through it with the resources they have. It's not about hating people, it's about hating life. The difficulty is magnified when you witness others enjoying a happy life while you struggle.

Expensive-Tea455 · 2023-11-26T20:13:17+00:00

Exactly, dudes keep coming on here complaining about how dating is supposed to be fair… since when?? 🌝

bluestjuice · 2023-11-26T21:03:03+00:00

Hm. Life is unfair, but I agree that it’s not a good argument to make generally.

It’s simply not true that everyone gets what they deserve. There is a decent through-line of random chance mixed up in all the outcomes.

At the same time, one’s own choices and actions certainly impact the outcomes and the likelihood of things turning out well. Doing all the optimal things doesn’t guarantee success but that’s not a good argument in favor of throwing your hands up and saying ‘fuck it!’ and not trying.

Remaining motivated while making peace with the ultimate unfairness of the universe is life’s work, so it makes sense that many posters here (especially the younger ones) are struggling with it.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2023-11-27T03:01:42+00:00

Being forced to pay for a kid that you created is fair.

The man does not "create" the kid. The man and the woman consent to sex, for which there is an alterable but never zero probability that a conception will result. Furthermore, the woman has more control of, and knowledge of, this probability than the man does, and is therefore in the position to deceive the man about what this probability actually is.

At the moment of conception, the embryo receives no rights. This is why, for some interval of time, aborting the embryo is morally acceptable. Because the embryo is inside the woman's body, it is entirely her choice as to whether or not the embryo is aborted (as it should be). In other words, she has a unilateral veto over the embryo achieving personhood (which happens at some point during fetal development) and hence receiving individual rights.

In other words, the choice ultimately belongs to her. At every step of the process from conception to incubation and development, she holds most or all of the control and, ultimately, it is her choice if the fetus becomes a rights-bearing individual (so long as she's in a state where abortion is available within a reasonable gestational limit).

You seem to be holding a position that the "right to being supported by the male parent" is invested into the embryo at the moment of conception but the "right to life" somehow isn't. But this is a logically incoherent position because the right to life is logically prior to the right to parental support. You can't invest a right to parental support into something WITHOUT investing a right to life into it (since the right to parental support is a consequence of the right to life). Not to mention, since the embryo is not a person you cannot invest it with rights in the first place.

I'm sorry, but your position is both simply unfair and logically incoherent. There are only two consistent positions - a pro-life No Abortions Ever (except perhaps to save the life of the mother) perspective, OR the perspective of Karen DeCrow (which is that because the mother has the absolute control over whether or not a new person is brought into existence, the responsibility must lie with her too).

As I am pro-choice, I stand with DeCrow.

Fairness can also be about suffering the consequences for your poor decisions.

Agreed. So why aren't women... the people who ultimately make the decision as to bring a new person into existence (in a society where abortion is available within a reasonable gestational limit)... on the hook for the consequences of their own decisions?

SeveralLiterature980 · 2023-11-26T21:12:33+00:00

Oh wow here comes a status quo apologist here to tell anyone complaining about the status quo to essentially shut the fuck up.

Really, all standards excluding people are fair?

Just World hypothesis overdrive

Society expects people (via coercion in many cases) to contribute and participate. So no, you are wrong. A society that excludes you via its (often arbitrary) standards while expecting you to prop it up is not fair and unjust.

Ylduts · 2023-11-26T11:17:46+00:00

Life isn’t fair, I try to help people understand this. I think people need to complain less and work with the cards they are given.

mrcs84usn · 2023-11-26T11:26:59+00:00

AFC: waaaaaaaa nice guys finish last.

TRP: Stop being the nice guy. Do the work, and level yourself up. Women don’t care about your struggle. They wait at the finish line and choose the winners.

Gitsumrestmf · 2023-11-26T11:27:22+00:00

Many people just come here to vent. And it does give you a glimpse at their thought process. And what's there?

Hypocrisy, entitlement, selfishness... Where does it come from? My thinking is - desperation and lack of self-worth.

Honestly, I feel sorry for these dudes, but at the same time, I can't help but feel frustrated at their show of weakness and thoughtlessness. I'm a man myself, I had difficulties in life. Didn't blame other ppl though, even if they were mean to me. I knew I was the one fking up.

These guys don't see that when they shame women for merely having standards, they admit they are below those standards. And instead of working on it, they wallow in self-pity and take out their frustrations on others. It's self-demeaning and pathetic.

Granted, there's entire media driving young men into desperation with the propaganda. Sex sex sex, everywhere. And the advent of internet did make things harder for people wanting to date.

But at the same time, blaming everyone else, acting desperate, etc... you won't get anywhere that way. And these guys refuse to see their own hypocrisy. Start a change you want to see in society in yourself.

Pitiful_Many3583 · 2023-11-26T12:05:53+00:00

This would have a better balance to it if you included a few of the dating standards that women complain is unjust - body count, age, single parenthood, weight, etc.

___Cesar · 2023-11-26T16:28:14+00:00

Bad things happening to good people and good things happening to bad people isn’t fair. Being born with disadvantages is unfair. Being oppressed for being a minority is unfair.

I am sorry but regarding how obtuse you are, these things are not unfair in the end. Why everything else is unfair but why when it comes to women's holes, all of a sudden it is fair. No, it doesn't work like that.

I saw you were preaching personal responsibility, I guess what you preach should be applied here too. You were oppressed because you are a minority ? Just fight your way out to not be oppressed anymore. How does it sound ?

I am sure you use this argument because you are ethnic woman. So when you relates to it, it is unfair. But when you don't, it is fair. Ok. Fair enough.

jay10033 · 2023-11-26T16:19:08+00:00

As long as you keep the same energy and what you consider fair. Pumping and dumping women is fair - no one is entitled to a relationship. Don't let your girlfriend stop you from finding the love of your life - that's fair. Your happiness is your responsibility and no one should get in the way of that.

Barely-moral · 2023-11-26T17:53:10+00:00

People not wanting to be around a person who is mean to them is fair.

What is unfair is that when two person act the same way one is considered to be mean and the other one is not.

Men wanting to have sex with an ugly girl because she was willing to have a hook up with him is fair.

Just like you have standards that exclude people, people having standards that exclude you is fair.

Since I don't have any standard that excludes anyone then it is unfair that the person in front of me has a standard that excludes me. Easy rebuttal.

Not wanting someone who is not at your income or educational level is fair.

It is unfair if I am applying that standard to someone that does not apply the same standard to me.

Noy wanting someone based on incompatibility, such as no common interest, is fair.

Unless that someone does not apply the same standard to me.

What’s also unfair is shaming people for not doing what you want them to do solely for your own benefit.

That is fair as long as I shame every single person in the same way for the same reasons. Equal treatment is fair.

Why should a person shamed into giving a medicore-looking or ugly people a chance when they dont want to nor desire to?

Why shouldn't that person be shamed?

Before someone make comeback, taking what you can get is also fair when you complain about getting nothing at all.

Sounds like rape apologia. Kidding. Just making a point.

In case I have to fill up space, let me talk about the other things this subreddit pretends is unfair: Being forced to pay for a kid that you created is fair.

If and only if both parties have equal say on that kid being born at every step of development.

The baby didn’t ask to be conceived from your bad decisions and why should society be forced to pay for kids you can afford to support?

The fair thing to do would be to make the one that has final say on the kid's existence responsible and everyone else not responsible.

Fairness can also be about suffering the consequences for your poor decisions. People staying away from an unlikable asshole is fair.

Only if that applies to every single unlikable asshole with no exception.

Criminals going to jail for a crime they committed is fair.

Only if every single criminal that commits the same crime recieves the same punishment.

No, you not getting what you want does not automatically mean unfairness.

It means unfairness if another human doing the same actions gets what they want when I don't.

peteypete78 · 2023-11-26T12:48:42+00:00

What is fairness?

If I have a chocolate bar and split it in half and give half each to 2 kids is that fair? What if one had been good and the other bad is it still fair or not?

TheRedPillRipper · 2023-11-26T11:22:07+00:00

so many guys act like it’s an injustice

Not in TRP. TRP simply states this is reality. Based on widely spread observations. These strategies have worked for others. Do what you will, with this information.

Life is a meritocracy. You get what you earn.

Godspeed and good luck!

John_Oakman · 2023-11-26T13:18:34+00:00

Fairness is obeying the unwritten social compact and expecting the other side to reciprocate. When said reciprocation does not occur the initial and nature response is to raise awareness (often portrayed by the opposition as whining). When said method fails, naturally anger results and that leads to the rejection of the previous adhered to social compact.

meisterkraus · 2023-11-26T11:33:22+00:00

Paying for the sins of others is unfair. That is what is happening to a lot of men right now in dating.

Proudvow · 2023-11-26T16:44:18+00:00

Being forced to pay for a kid that you created is fair. The baby didn’t ask to be conceived from your bad decisions and why should society be forced to pay for kids you can afford to support?

If abortion is legal then it's the woman who made the bad choice of carrying out the pregnancy, yet she gets rewarded for it.

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macone235 · 2023-11-26T23:33:39+00:00

If you got what you wanted then unfairness wouldn't exist. I agree that something being unfair doesn't mean you're going to get what you want though.

What’s also unfair is shaming people for not doing what you want them to do solely for your own benefit. Why should a person shamed into giving a medicore-looking or ugly people a chance when they dont want to nor desire to? Before someone make comeback, taking what you can get is also fair when you complain about getting nothing at all.

That's not unfair at all. If you call a shallow person shallow, then you are calling the person what they are. That's fair. Lots of women like to not be held accountable for their negative behavior, but that's no longer being tolerated. Women are being called out on their shit as they should be. That doesn't mean women have to give ugly men chance. Women have the right to do what they want, and in the same turn - men do as well, and they should be able to judge women just as women judged them. That's fair.

Title	CMV: Fairness is not code for getting what you want with no inconvenience.
Author	LillthOfBabylon
Upvotes	19
Comments	198
Date	November 26, 2023 11:07 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1848fp0/cmv_fairness_is_not_code_for_getting_what_you/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-fairness-is-not-code-for-getting-what-you-want.1239370 https://theredarchive.com/post/1239370

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