Discussion: "Be yourself."

HigHog · 2018-03-30T08:08:46+00:00

I don't know why some people continue to have such problems with this. "Be yourself" does not mean be an unattractive slob who makes no effort, it just means be the best version of yourself.

It means don't lie. If you hate sports with a passion don't pretend you're on the basketball court every night to impress a potential date because it will screw you over long-term in a relationship. You don't want to have keep up a facade forever. Instead talk about the things that genuinely interest you, but present them in a positive light.

It's fairly simple.

LewisCross · 2018-03-30T11:41:50+00:00

Why are you asking anyone other than Atlas what Atlas thinks or would agree to?

Eastuss · 2018-03-30T07:45:27+00:00

"Be yourself so that I can see if you fit or not" - Women

OFC it's in women's interest that men are authentic and honest. Just like it's in men's interest that women show themselves without make-up, so that they can spot natural beauties before committing.

Q4ALL: How did the "Be Yourself" stuff get started, anyway? What is the origin of this?

"Be yourself" can also mean "Have frame". If you're a spineless wimp who never stand for your opinion, beliefs, and interests, you're going to be just a looser.

Most of the time, the core you should remain the same, but the way you show your core self should be adapted. A good salesman will always want to sell you his stuff, he'll not compromise this, but he'll find a way to achieve good communication, find a way to touch you emotionally, copy the codes that will make him look like one of your tribe...

But in the end, you should lie, you should fabricate anything, as long as you don't need to sustain something you know you won't sustain/deliver. People lie ALL THE TIME, lies and illusions that are morally acceptable, and people will necessarily tell you that YOUR lies are wrong and THEIR lies are normal. They'll even tell you that they're "forced to lie" because they are victims, you know. ;)

Q4ALL: Once you abandon "Be Yourself", how exactly do you shape/sculpt/FORGE yourself into the Ultimate Man?

I never abandoned "be yourself", I reshaped it as "go for what you want and need and be convincing" instead of "be your ideal self".

YetAnotherCommenter · 2018-03-30T09:59:39+00:00

Would Atlas agree that you should never lie and you should never fabricate anything?

Ask her, but she is an Objectivist (Randian) and Ayn Rand thought lies were never (in the long run) practical or self-interested except perhaps in very exceptional circumstances, so I think Atlas would argue for honesty as the 'default' policy in the absense of mitigating considerations.

How did the "Be Yourself" stuff get started, anyway? What is the origin of this?

"Be yourself" began basically as a way to make kids feel better about themselves in the aftermath of the usual misery and cruelty of school social politics. The idea however was combined with a Disney-type "you'll find friends eventually if you just Be Yourself" idea... its kind of a 'natural justice' thing honestly.

Somehow it got transferred into the realm of romantic relationships and arguably as a way by which girls could let a man down gently without being "mean" to him. Perhaps self-interestedly... either to avoid the possibility of the man lashing out or to uphold the "sugar, spice and everything nice" stereotypes which perpetuate female privilege... women started using it as relationship advice for men they're turning down.

TheGreasyPole · 2018-03-30T08:34:15+00:00

OP, can you edit your original post again. I think this will summon automod and so allow users to post under automod as well as in direct reply.

OfSpock · 2018-03-30T10:07:49+00:00

I met a guy once. I liked him. He was a normal car repairing guy (that's how we met, I bought a car from him) who liked to play pool and take me dancing.

After about three months, he decided he was sick of cars, he wanted to look into developing his psychic powers and started hanging around with people who believe in that sort of stuff. Apparently his ex-gf liked the 'car guy' persona so he kept to it for her.

We broke up shortly after and he married some crystal wearing flower child and I married a mechanic. He found a much better suited woman by being himself,

melonsle · 2018-03-30T14:12:18+00:00

I don't really jive with the tone of what you're quoting... I think it lacks the self-love which is what we're all really aiming for.

These extremes ("ultimate man" / "loser") are also not really helpful. Using extreme examples is not good, when the main point of the discussion is to develop a more subtle perception.

A "loser" who loves themselves, will find that, miraculously, they cease to be a loser. That's how self-love works. It is astonishing.

Nobody is really a loser. Even if you don't have the world's best job, and have a beer - belly - so what? You can take steps to improve. But loving yourself is whats most important.

The idea that you can hate yourself into higher states of being, is one of those ideas that looks really sexy and seductive on the outside, but ends up being full of hot air. It cannot go the distance.

Its a paradox. But everyone lifting weights and chasing promotions and chasing women now because they really don't like who they are without these things - I think those people will have the same reality check that I got.

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1UPZ__ · 2018-03-30T09:24:09+00:00

Be yourself does not mean be lazy, be messy etc.

It means don't ACT like someone you're not. Be you!, the best version of you.

FI-Boy · 2018-03-30T11:56:30+00:00

"Insist on yourself; never imitate. Your own gift you can present every moment with the cumulative force of a whole life's cultivation; but of the adopted talent of another, you have only an extemporaneous, half possession. That which each can do best, none but his Maker can teach him. No man yet knows what it is, nor can, till that person has exhibited it. Where is the master who could have taught Shakspeare? Where is the master who could have instructed Franklin, or Washington, or Bacon, or Newton? Every great man is a unique. The Scipionism of Scipio is precisely that part he could not borrow. Shakspeare will never be made by the study of Shakspeare. Do that which is assigned you, and you cannot hope too much or dare too much. There is at this moment for you an utterance brave and grand as that of the colossal chisel of Phidias, or trowel of the Egyptians, or the pen of Moses, or Dante, but different from all these. Not possibly will the soul all rich, all eloquent, with thousand-cloven tongue, deign to repeat itself; but if you can hear what these patriarchs say, surely you can reply to them in the same pitch of voice; for the ear and the tongue are two organs of one nature. Abide in the simple and noble regions of thy life, obey thy heart, and thou shalt reproduce the Foreworld again."

Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

PersonofControversy · 2018-03-30T13:52:14+00:00

The best way to "Be Yourself", that works for nerds like me, I found, is this. Imagine you are a movie character. Would you watch the movie of your life? Is the main character compelling? Does he achieve things? Is he experiencing any kind of character arc or progression? We all hate passive protagonists; is he an active force in the plot?

Because that is a major problem that many guys don't realize they have. Nobody is interested in passive protagonists, and attraction (whether to the main character of a movie or a real person) is based on interest. People like people that are actively doing things, in the real world; that are taking charge of their life. Don't be passive.

Be yourself, and be active!

You like video games and computers? Awesome! Then play to win and learn to code and start projects and actually do things with that interest! Turn it into a talent! Reach out to likeminded people and meet up, go to some hackathons, wreck noobs at a video game tournament!

You like sports? Then actually play some! Join a inter mural team or something, or just hang out at a local court playing pickup with some people.

Turn your interests into actual hobbies, that you can share with actual real people, and before long you'll have a social life, talents, friends and, for once in your life, something to say to that hot girl at the party.

PhucCheet · 2018-03-30T18:35:46+00:00

Q4ALL: How did the "Be Yourself" stuff get started, anyway? What is the origin of this?

Around the 70s and 80s, a bunch of stoned university-educated hippies thought that low self-esteem was the cause of crime and lack of achievement and other social issues, so they completely reformed parenting and schooling into a Self Esteem movement telling everyone they're special pretty little flowers who are perfect just as they are. "Be Yourself" was part of that.

Now, a few decades later, society has clued in that they were too stoned to know what they were talking about. Their theory was incomplete. High self esteem that is not earned (through skill and value creation) leads to shitty, useless people.

Once you abandon "Be Yourself", how exactly do you shape/sculpt/FORGE yourself into the Ultimate Man?

Identify your values. If you don't have any, acquire some. Then envision your future. What do you want? Set some goals. Then learn what you need to do to reach those goals. Then do it. Don't quit when it gets hard.

Priene · 2018-03-30T12:56:28+00:00

Physically, women want men to hit the gym and sculpt their best bodies possible, don't they?

Nope. That's a man's projection, assuming what he finds attractive in a man is what women are attracted to, when the truth is that a man's attractiveness depends a lot more on his bone structure, and hairline and smile, and personal grooming sense and sytle and personality, than redpillers think.

Mel Gibson was never a muscular man, he has no visible abs, I fail to see an adonis belt, and his shoulders aren't thick, nor are they really that wide. You think women found him any less attractive because of that?

http://mirfaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Mel-Gibson.jpeg

Mr. Gibson had an average body, and that's more than enough for most women.

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/polls/743000/743139_1307793107917_full.jpg?v=1307793294

Another example of how bone structure is far more important than muscles would be my all-time hollywood crush, James Dean. Nigga was skinny as fuck, shorter than most women I meet, and he was still loved and lusted after by millions of women.

http://lounge.obviousmag.org/em_35_mm/o-JAMES-DEAN-facebook.jpg

Skinny kid who never lacked for women. Or men.

You see red pillers claiming women are viscerally attracted to muscles because they were obese before they started lifting, and now that they aren't obese women are paying them attention. They are going to relate the muscles with women's sexual attraction because they went from being invisible to getting laid.

They're getting laid not because of the muscles, but because they aren't walking pools of fat anymore.

ContrasexualWoman · 2018-03-30T09:49:23+00:00

Q4ALL: Would Atlas agree that you should never lie and you should never fabricate anything?

Idk. You should ask her.

Q4ALL: Once you abandon "Be Yourself", how exactly do you shape/sculpt/FORGE yourself into the Ultimate Man?

First I'd need to get a penis and attach it somehow... Is this post supposed to be a Q4M? If not, and women can answer too then the path is pretty much laid out imo already. I don't change anything about my personality, but I will do things that improve upon it. For example, I hate makeup so I don't force myself to wear it. Instead I drink lots of water, workout to keep my weight at healthy levels, avoid greasy foods, wash my face at least twice a day, and use acne pads to keep breakouts at a minimum. This means that even though my face will still be "plain" compared to women who are wearing cosmetics, it will still be the best face I can possibly have.

Q4ALL: How did the "Be Yourself" stuff get started, anyway? What is the origin of this?

It comes from an essay called "Day of a Stranger" written by theologian and mystic Thomas Merton;

In an age where there is much talk about “being yourself” I reserve to myself the right to forget about being myself, since in any case there is very little chance of my being anybody else. Rather it seems to me that when one is too intent on “being himself” he runs the risk of impersonating a shadow.

wtknight · 2018-03-30T12:32:37+00:00

Would Atlas agree that you should never lie and you should never fabricate anything?

No idea. Ask her.

Once you abandon "Be Yourself", how exactly do you shape/sculpt/FORGE yourself into the Ultimate Man?

One shouldn't abandon themselves. There are ways to keep being yourself while gaining confidence in oneself.

How did the "Be Yourself" stuff get started, anyway? What is the origin of this?

Because people often make themselves even more damaged trying to change their personalities than they were before they started trying to change. Both never working on oneself at all and completely transforming one's personality are overly extreme responses to how people should approach self-improvement.

despisedlove2 · 2018-03-30T14:49:09+00:00

Obviously be yourself. Who has the bandwidth for a second identity?

Entropy-7 · 2018-03-30T16:34:56+00:00

You are either swimming with the current, against the current or cross current.

BE YOURSELF when you are with the current.

I love cross-current people because they are still finding themselves.

gmanex · 2018-03-30T18:56:22+00:00

To filter out the undesirable ones

Ordinate1 · 2018-03-31T02:45:17+00:00

This is where I take the inverse approach: Just because it isn't "successful" is no reason to not be yourself.

The problem is that we are obsessed with "success."

trail22 · 2018-04-01T03:19:45+00:00

How willing should a person change they like about them self to get what they want?

jonascf · 2018-04-01T20:38:08+00:00

Q4ALL: Once you abandon "Be Yourself", how exactly do you shape/sculpt/FORGE yourself into the Ultimate Man?

I don't think you should abandon "Be yourself" entirely. What kind of man you wanna be should be decided based on your own personality and inclinations.

How you forge yourself into your better self, your Ultimate Man, depends on what kind of man you chose to be.

But you have to chose, and some people won't even make it past that. My advice would be to either try to emulate people that you find admirable or to find some archetypical form of man that you wanna realise and work towards that.

Aaren_Augustine · 2018-03-30T07:40:51+00:00

That's why you don't listen to women. This is why. Right there. That dumb bullshit. Its a chick's attitude that works for women that have to be adjustable so they aren't tossed on their ass by some dude they love thats tired of her shit.

In reality, a guy does this, fucks a whole lot a chicks and posts a sob story on askTRP how he's still fuckin depressed and incomplete; BUT HOT DAMN he sure looks like a fuckin winner!

This is why TRP will always have a image problem. Because they are switching up 'masks' with little regard to actual substance. They have no god damn clue what an actual personality feels like so they dismiss what they don't understand and don't have.

She cares about winners? What the fuck does a RP chick know about success if she's always hanging around places that have losers to help? And she's a lawyer too, right? Which makes sense. Be the shark in a pond, guess your gonna look like you know some shit to shallow dwelling fish

It's like Stone saying faggot over at MRP. Some motherfuckers get a whiff of actual personality and the eat that shit up. Like you said I LOVE THIS ATTITUDE, but the message is god damn stupid BECAUSE it lacks authenticity; its just feelz

MercedesBenzoAMG · 2018-03-30T07:32:00+00:00

Agreed 100% with Atlas on this. She summed up my own thoughts very succinctly.

Q4ALL: Would Atlas agree that you should never lie and you should never fabricate anything?

Why are you asking us to guess what Atlas thinks? That's a strange line of questioning.

Q4ALL: Once you abandon "Be Yourself", how exactly do you shape/sculpt/FORGE yourself into the Ultimate Man?

Decide exactly what it is your version of "ultimate" is then work out the concrete steps to get there. Start small, work up.

Q4ALL: How did the "Be Yourself" stuff get started, anyway? What is the origin of this?

I imagine some variation of it has existed for as long as humans have been relaying meaningless platitudes to each other.

Maikowski2 · 2018-03-30T07:42:30+00:00

This gonna be a boring thread. Without automod.

TheGreasyPole · 2018-03-30T07:58:46+00:00

Q4ALL: Would Atlas agree that you should never lie and you should never fabricate anything?

You better ask Atlas.

I'd say if you are lying, it better only be as a short-term crutch while you build that thing for real "under the hood". Lying/Faking is just not sustainable in anything but the shortest term.

If you're going to fake it until you make it (say with confidence), you better have solid plans for actually making it, be in the course of executing them, and be expecting them to deliver real quick.

Q4ALL: Once you abandon "Be Yourself", how exactly do you shape/sculpt/FORGE yourself into the Ultimate Man?

Develop the traits on the RP Alpha Traits list... and secondarily (and once you are well underway on the Alpha traits list and already pretty attractive) also develop the traits on the Beta Traits list.

DO NOT DO THE BETA FIRST it does not work, even if you think thats where your strengths are.

Here is my personal version of the Alpha/Beta Traits lists

The traits on the alpha traits list are what are defined as masculine. If you've got/get them then people will see you as manly.

As to how to do that... Well, thats just about every page on every RP blog, book and subreddit.

Q4ALL: How did the "Be Yourself" stuff get started, anyway? What is the origin of this?

My view of this is people were being asked for advice. They wanted a way to say something

Inoffensive to the general zeitgeist that we're all special unique individuals
That seemed on a superficial level profound
That got the "asker" off their back
That did not in any risk a scene where more accurate advice to improve may have done if people took it the wrong way.

So they learned to say "Just Be Yourself, dude. Everything will work out if you just be yourself".

This was also exacerbated by the fact that the naturally extroverted, confident, charming and good looking people who were being asked to give advice drew from their own experience and this advice would have worked perfectly well for them.

So they gave it, oblivious or deliberately blind to the fact the person asking wasn't generally "Extroverted, Confident, Charming and Good Looking" like them but generally an "Introverted, Anxious, Low social skills, Unattractive guy" for whom this was the worst possible advice as it encouraged him to STAY "Introverted, Anxious, Low social skills and Unattractive" and just wait for a unicorn to pass by and notice his "Heart of Gold".

Thats not how it works. Thats not how any of this works.

Doom_and-Gloom · 2018-03-30T08:50:45+00:00

If you're not succeeding at attaining your goals with the character and personality you have, change them til you are successful

So what's the implication here? That if you can't lead anything closely resembling a normal life, you should just fool yourself into believing whatever you have now is great and make that your life's goal?

Seriously, why does anyone on this fucking board take anything this woman who doesn't know shit from shinola about anything says seriously?

Now for the questions:

Q4ALL: Would Atlas agree that you should never lie and you should never fabricate anything?

I don't give a half a fuck what Atlas thinks and neither should you. Next question.

Q4ALL: Once you abandon "Be Yourself", how exactly do you shape/sculpt/FORGE yourself into the Ultimate Man?

There's no such thing as the Ultimate Man. Well, maybe there is, but it's not something you can become, so much as something you're born as. Is the question you're asking here how does one go about achieving their life goal?

Q4ALL: How did the "Be Yourself" stuff get started, anyway? What is the origin of this?

From my experience, it's just a platitude women sometimes offer men in lieu of actual dating advice. Though it can on occasion be genuine - the problem is most women have no concept of what men's reality is actually like. They're really just describing what worked for them - and have no doubt that just "being yourself" works for women - thinking (hoping?) it'll work for you too. It won't, because women today are completely oblivious to men's lived experiences and they have no desire to learn (not that I blame them, honestly), but that's besides the point.

reluctantly_red · 2018-03-30T09:41:19+00:00

"Be yourself" is the antithesis of "market yourself". Here in America you sure as hell have to market yourself. You have to create a brand for yourself. Your brand is of course constrained by your genetics and available resources. Working within these parameters a guy's job is to create and package something he can sell to women.

Title	Discussion: "Be yourself."
Author	Dismascius
Upvotes	11
Comments	187
Date	March 30, 2018 6:41 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/888fsq/discussion_be_yourself/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/discussion-be-yourself.263066 https://theredarchive.com/post/263066

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