"Obsession" internet discourse proves one again how undesiderable shy men are and how gender norms are despicable only when they are unfavorable to women

Holiday_Tap_4358 · 2026-07-06T16:12:19+00:00

There are lots of romcoms where women pine after a man who isn’t interested and it’s portrayed as sort of pathetic. 27 Dresses is the one I can think of off the top of my head.

I agree there’s still I gendered expectation for men to take more initiative and for women to be passive.

AngeAware · 2026-07-06T15:08:24+00:00

The actress who plays Nikki said that they filmed some scenes as if Nikki likes Bear and others as if she doesn't. This is why people are coming to such vastly different conclusions about what Nikki felt. That is exactly what the director wanted because the movie would be more interesting that way.

Link to some of the cast interviews on this: https://www.cinemablend.com/movies/could-bear-have-had-shot-with-nikki-obsession-fans-have-thoughts-after-cast-weighs-in)

Both Bear and Nikki's actors think that Bear may have had a chance if he was honest with Nikki but neither of them seem to believe that she's head over heels for him in the way he is for her. It was more like she'd give him a chance if he was interested because he's cute and nice to her (at first).

Kaleidoscopetide · 2026-07-06T21:27:51+00:00

Bear's fatal flaw is cowardice. This is established early in the movie, with innocuous things like him being too scared to tell Nikki how he feels, and then, as the story becomes higher-stakes, waffling around and taking the easy way out, until it's too late. This is because "Obsession" is a competently-constructed tragedy. Nikki herself is not particularly brave, either, but the movie isn't *about* her--she gets possessed almost immediately, and so her personality has no bearing on the actual plot. Her *fate* is unconnected to her *flaws.* Of course she is judged differently from bear, when her one act of anything resembling cowardice is just not telling bear how she feels before she asks how he feels, and Bear's cowardice makes him act callously and cruelly, resulting in tragedy. They don't have basically the same traits--he's got it worse.

Kreeps_United · 2026-07-06T19:12:17+00:00

Personally, I only saw that Nikki liked him as a friend, so the scene where she asks if he likes her is an attempt to address the issue directly. Nikki isn't spineless. Every character is flawed, but Nikki has an on-and-off relationship with Ian, while Bear can't even confess. Bear's brand of indecision and inability to confront makes him a monster and Nikki his victim. Nikki is willing to face death to free herself, while Bear even tries chicken out of that.

All of that said, I agree that we often demonize shy or unsuccessful men and blame them for any problem they face. Bear is not an innocent shy guy. He was basically assaulting a woman he claimed to love. This is a bad example.

OrigonStory2000 · 2026-07-07T02:48:04+00:00

I think there's a couple things that people often ignore in the film and they're very necessary context:

Bear lives in his Grandmother's old apartment, which is still decorated in her style, which implies a fairly recent passing. Looking into it further, additional info from the writers and directors of the film confirm that Bear was raised solely by his grandmother, has no parents, siblings, or cousins, and the film opens not long after her death, which preceeds the death of his cat by only a few hours. Bear isn't just a shy, lonely dude, he's quite literally all alone in the world with nobody left who loves him, his only friends are his coworkers, and tbh, they're all kinda shitty friends both to him and each other.
The Information about his life frames his overly melodramatic, cheesy, romantic confession speech at the films beginning in a different light. Its not just that he loves Nikki or believes she's "the one", but she may be the driving thing that is keeping him alive and somewhat hopeful. While its not healthy, it does help make it more understandable why he wants to confess so bad, but is so terrified to do so: she's the only person left who he feels like he's got a genuine, strong emotional connection to, and risking destroying that one connection he has left is absolutely terrifying. Again, it's not healthy nor sustainable to stake your happiness on a single person and make them your future, but I'm many men who've experienced times in their life where it's been difficult to summon the will to live, we don't get to choose what we latch on to in order to keep living and having hope.
While it doesn't in any way excuse what happens, various parts of the film seem to imply that while Nikki is well liked, she doesn't necessarily have great regard for other people's feelings and treats them somewhat carelessly. We know she's been seeing Ian casually, and that Ian clearly things she'd be date Bear just to upset him. And judging from the way Ian tries to sabotage Bears chances with Nikki with bad advice and how he tries to frame the relationship as abusive during their car ride together, he's clearly got more feelings for Nikki than she does for him, otherwise he wouldn't be trying to gaurd her so jealously. While its been confirmed that the film uses various cuts from different takes where Nikkis actress was asked to play it as if she was and wasn't interested in Bear to create a sense of uncertainty, I think it more accurately shows the kind of "hot and cold" dynamics some people get into. Bear is the first person Nikki calls after work, she admits she shares things with him nobody else does, and she pays for his drink at the bar; all various positive signs of interest. But simultaneously, she acts grossed out when someone jokes Bear and her might be an item, when she calls him, she does so solely to complain about how hard her day was, and doesn't check in on him despite the fact he recently lost his grandmother, and when he tells her he has something for her or to tell her, she immediately begins to act defensive. Hell, she doesn't even apologise about the death of his cat until she's already been possessed. Even if she does consider him her friend, she really treats him like an emotional dumping grounds/uber driver, and seems very intent on nipping at hopes at intimacy in the bud or halting any discussions which might inconvenience her or make her uncomfortable. And while it's only a small thing, even if it was to give to a homeless person, taking someone else's money without their permission and giving it away is not cool or okay. If she's that hard up for money, just don't buy the rounds of drinks girl.
There is no denying Bear is cowardly and selfish. By the films end, he is without question the films villain, even if he isn't its monster. But at the outset, he's just a sad, depressed man with nobody else left in the world and who clearly also has some issues with confidence and social cues. His worst problem is that he's afraid of being authentic: he's afraid to look unmanly in front of Nikki by showing how the death of his family and his cat is affecting him, he's afraid to be forthcoming with his feelings which might have actually worked considering how much emphasis Nikki was putting on distinguishing Romance from Love, and its that refusal to be real, in spite of the fact it's difficult and may hurt, which is what causes him to make that wish that eventually leads to the death of 3 people. And, ironically, having no fear of being authentic with Sarah is what makes her fall for him and provides him with the few moments of genuine human connection throughout the film.

While none of these facts excuse his actions or shift the blame of the films events to other characters, I think it's important to remember that almost all of Obsessions characters are neither good nor bad at the outset and are almost all dealing with some kind of internal pain. Some may disagree with me here, but I genuinely don't think Bear does anything inexcusably wrong until Nikkis first severe freakout in the restaurant, which is the point he should have starting getting professional help for her. Anything before then about Nikkis change in behaviour could be written off due to the recreational drugs we know she uses, Bear himself being a bit dumb and loveblind to miss the red flags, and also the fact that (speaking from experience here) if you date a girl who you think the world of, who you love unconditionally, and who you think might also be a bit out of your league, you will be surprised the amount of very weird and bad stuff you will endure that will only seem weird and bad in hindsight, because you're young, dumb, and have no frame of reference for what a normal relationship is supposed to look like. Bears ultimate flaw is that he's afraid: afraid to feel and afraid to be hurt. And that fear shines through in every part of how he behaves. And the problem is, people are seeing the signs of that fear and thinking those are indications of immorality or evil intent, but they're not. Being afraid isn't evil. But refusing to face that fear and do something selfless to help someone who's suffering, that's evil.

harmonica2 · 2026-07-06T13:02:00+00:00

There is also the discourse that ladies men, who get a bunch of women can be seen as villainous as well but is one worse between that and the shy guy?

OffTheRedSand · 2026-07-06T13:00:36+00:00

nikki does not like bear back, at least not as much as he "likes" her.

in fact she told sarah she saw bear as more of a little brother.

the cast and director did say that had maybe bear made his intentions more clear that MAYBE nikki would've gave their relationship a chance but apart from that she did NOT see bear that way especially since she seemed to be kind of moving on from the friend group to focus on herself and her writing.

bear is the one with romantic interest, it's on him to let it be known. nikki did give him a chance to make his intentions clear and he failed at doing that.

is bear a villain at the start? no.

but he is at the end of the movie, and it's because he is spinless and does nothing that makes him a villain.

not doing anything and letting things be as is does not make him innocent, and that's the part that you guys seem to be confused over.

"he didn't do anything" DOES NOT MAKE HIM GOOD. it make him neutural at best, and by the end it actually made him the bad guy at worst.

inaction is an action and if shy men don't want to make a move then it's on them being single.

at the end of the day nikki did not seem like she even was looking for a relationship so to pin it on her "she wasn't that direct with bear" is again putting it all on the wrong person and stripping bear away from any accountability when the whole movie wouldn't have happened had bear not liked nikki but didn't have the courage to tell her.

Lemon_gecko · 2026-07-06T12:46:57+00:00

"It's quite clear to the viewer Nikki likes him back, but she does nothing to absolutely show it and she is just as meek as he is." - is it? If she did like him back then it wouldn't be the horror movie it is now.

The movie doesn't reinforce stereotype that shy guys are dangerous. There is no stereotype like that at all. There is however stereotype about insecure guys, and entitled guys. And they can be shy too, yes. And this stereotype has a ground. Because abusers abuse not because they are secure people. They try to take control of another person to validate themselves. The most dangerous situation for a woman is when she says no because of men's entitlement. It's not just rejection, it's "unfair" and breaking of some sort of agreement in their head that justify aggression. So yeah.

I think men don't like to see what women been telling all along, that shy "nice" guys can be pretty bad too.

soulangelic · 2026-07-06T15:29:54+00:00

I think it’s ambiguous as to whether or not pre-wish Nikki has feelings for Bear (or is it Bar, since it’s short for Baron?)

So, we can’t judge Nikki with confidence as to whether or not she’s “spineless” for not approaching him first for a relationship. It’s obviously made very clear to the audience, though, that Bear IS in love with Nikki and still misses every available opportunity to do something about it before the wish happens.

Also, I’m not sure what your point about “calling Nikki ‘brave’ for clearly showing interest” has to do with your argument? Again, it’s not clear that she’s interested in him, so I can’t see how “a woman is celebrated and a man is demonized for showing basically the same traits” from this.

chamomilecloud · 2026-07-06T12:47:44+00:00

If you want a feminine woman who looks and behaves femininely, does that mean you should also look and behave feminine? To make it fair? It is baffling to me that people think the traits that are attractive in the opposite sex have to be displayed by their own sex or their own self.

A man being a feckless individual (like Bear) is deeply unattractive to me and many woman. I need to respect a man and his competence in order to feel sexual attraction to him. Conversely, many men only feel sexual attraction by how hot a woman is, so why would they care about passive women? Lots don’t, they don’t give a shit about passivity in women lol.

Gendered traits are nothing new; a man is celebrated when he is assertive and headstrong, and woman are called cunty and bitchy when they are assertive and headstrong.

Altruistic_Look_7868 · 2026-07-06T15:48:30+00:00

Lol. A movie about a man's utter selfishness ruining the lives of everyone around him, and of course, you managed to make it about how men (or you) are victimised. Give me a break.

Just-Path-5838 · 2026-07-06T20:54:53+00:00

It's quite clear to the viewer Nikki likes him back, but she does nothing to absolutely show it and she is just as meek as he is.

I've seen people say this and i think they're taking crazy pills. In my eyes there's a 0% chance Nikki was interested in him. If it shows me anything, its that women read into nothing the same way men do.

Like what are the indications she was interested?

Saying "ewww" at the suggestion she was his girl?

Not letting him pay for the drink?

Not paying attention to his toast at the bar?

The only thing people could be referring to is the scene in the car where they talk about her writing, which just sounds like they're friends to me.

Feeling_Ad_1034 · 2026-07-06T16:46:28+00:00

The movie is nonsense (although entertaining) and it’s all based on an honest wish from a lonely guy turning into a ridiculous monkey’s paw situation that gets so out of control, the dude offs himself to save the girl. Idk how it reflects anything of reality.

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JamesCruse · 2026-07-06T13:05:31+00:00

The main character Bear is a weak, selfish (weak), cowardly (weak), passive (weak) person who is so self-involved (because he's weak) and has so little consideration for others (also weak) that he passively & secretly (weak) magics a woman into wanting him.

The story is about how a weak passive man passived himself into violence and tragedy.

It's a BLARING warning about the danger of you as a man being so weak and passive and the extreme metaphor for it's results.

The director is clearly warning men NOT to be passive - you can see it and head it in his interviews, talking about the characters, his ideas and about film-making in general.

It's a CAUTIONARY TALE AIMED AT MEN.

SmertriosPPD · 2026-07-06T23:41:36+00:00

Bear isn't a vilain.

As far as I remember he has not been violent in the movie at all.

Internet outrages are insane, bear hardly did anything wrong other than take too much time to understand. it's explicit that he doesn't believe in the wish for more than half the movie but people still think he intentionally stripped her of her agency.

If there's anything to say about this movie, it's like a lot of men walked outside reevaluating how abusive their girlfriend is. Because the earlier stage of the movie are textbook female BPD behaviors.

And yes, he's going to be destroyed for being shy, but it was fine because it was clear that without the wish she was not interested in him, his decision to not even try makes sense.

PurplePillDebate-ModTeam · 2026-07-06T13:35:11+00:00

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Alternative_Cod2280 · 2026-07-07T07:54:23+00:00

A very well made and acted film

Nah it was a mediocre movies and particularly lacking in horror elements.

still I can't help to believe it reinforces prejudices and double standards about shy men.

Don't you realize you're wasting your time to defend a character that was set for failure from the very start (by his "best friend") and was never meant for the audience to feel sympathy for at any moment. His only saving grace was not being physically repulsive because the insult would be too obvious.

but you relate to him

Well too bad for you but you should know by now that shy and introverted men have always been easy targets for everyone else to pick on or detract either irl (just look at this place) or any kind of media.

There's no double standards, that's just how people see these men.

FSantiam · 2026-07-13T23:09:25+00:00

> It's quite clear to the viewer Nikki likes him back

False.

PrecisionHat · 2026-07-06T15:15:29+00:00

Bear was not a villain. The film was not about coercion. It was about staying in a toxic relationship and ignoring red flags because you think love is enough, or that love is all that counts.

Think about it. The second Bear actually knows his wish came true, that the magic is real, he wants to make things right. But the only way to do that is for him to kill Nikki or kill himself. Not a decision anyone would be able to make lightly or do right away even if it's the right thing. Anyone who says they would have done it right away is lying to themselves.

Bear's mistake, the only thing that even approaches him being a villain, is that, once he knows he's stuck with freaky Nikki, he tries to make it work, to control it and keep things from spiraling out. Just like a partner in a relationship they can't let go of even if they should.

Bear didn't knowingly curse Nikki. And he did not like life with freaky Nikki after the curse had taken hold; he simply couldn't let go, like so many victims of abuse who wont leave their toxic partner.

Nikki wasn't a villain either, and that's where the film deviates from standard horror tropes.

harmonica2 · 2026-07-06T18:12:04+00:00

The movie looks corny as hell from the trailers and stills but maybe its supposed to be, or maybe its good?

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