MGTOW Doesn't Get The Respect It Deserves

AurelianWay · 2016-01-08T17:48:32+00:00

The more I started shifting towards the MGTOW side, I was concerned that maybe there was a confirmation bias going on where I was simply looking for an easy way out to justify my reasons for not finding a compatible LTR. I lifted weights, got a promotion at my job & improved my SMV.

The physical attractiveness of the women I dated improved but ultimately I was still dealing with the same low quality & entitlement that most modern western women have.

From a cost/ benefit ratio, I was putting in more time / effort / money & not getting an adequate return on my personal investment from these women. Came to to the conclusion that women were good as occasional plates / fwb's but marriage & children were completely out of the question.

MGTOW / TRP etc are market corrections occurring because of the over zealousness of modern feminism in the sexual marketplace & society in general. Much to my surprise I started to realize how much I really enjoyed the independence that came from the MGTOW lifestyle.

If by some magical feat, laws became pro male & marriage was a more fair & equitable arrangement, I would still be a MGTOW. Life is awesome, I left the plantation, I am never going back.

stonepimpletilists · 2016-01-08T15:23:50+00:00

Thats why it's MGTOW, if you're checked out, you don't care about validation anymore

UA_Hammer · 2016-01-08T15:50:07+00:00

MGTOW will always be opposed because it is pulling men away from being wage slaves and giving away all of their earnings to people with nothing to offer and no loyalty. Conservatives will oppose it, liberals will oppose it, the rich will oppose it, the poor will oppose it.

MGTOW doesn't need good public perception, it needs numbers. It needs more and better men saying "fuck this, I'm out of here" until the cries of "where have all the good men gone" and the sound of a billion yowling cats is deafening. That's when something will get done.

MrAchievables · 2016-01-08T16:55:50+00:00

My Uncle is one such example. The man is 65 or so, well off, works daily, but also practices martial arts. I've never seen him with a woman, but I've heard, specifically from my grandmother, that the reason for that is the lack of quality women, and the women he met in college. They partied, slept around, did not keep those traditional family values he was raised with, and so he didn't want anything to do with them, and still doesn't. I always thought it was strange because he didn't have a wife or girlfriend, but as I read more here, I came to the understanding that that's actually alright, and he's probably much better off.

doubleplustwo · 2016-01-08T19:45:42+00:00

One of my favorite MGTOW epithets is "the juice ain't worth the squeeze". I basically see MGTOW as permanent Monk Mode.

DistantWinter · 2016-01-08T16:20:37+00:00

Yesterday the web was a buzz with a social media hash tag of 2016wastehistime or something else ridiculous. The things shown were just deplorable. Treating anyone that way is deplorable and yet it was cheered and looked at as some form of joke and any guy who spoke up was ridiculed and told to stop whining.

Things like this is why men are learning at a younger age and going their own way and men are waking up earlier because of the drama they are put through at a young age. The things they have witnessed first hand with divorce rapes, custody battles, false rape claims, villainized for being male and the list goes on.

It would be easy to equate third wave feminism with any other extreme hateful and biased movement. Pick on race to bolster your position and shift blame for failures within society. Only it is a sex not a race. Feminism today isn't about equality. It's about making men villains.

Nobody wants to listen to a racist bigot anymore than a sexist bigot, but yet the open platform they are given is being listened to and processed as correct.

When the attack on a race happens the race will close ranks and take care of themselves, such as the Jews have done and still currently do to this day. With equation to sexism men are starting to do this too. Men are closing ranks and taking care of themselves. I'm seeing it more and more with men who don't follow TRP. Men are listening to women speak and the first time they hear "rape" or "I don't need a man" or any other feminist BS they next them and move on.

MGTOW is going to continue to get stronger as feminism permeates womens way of thinking. As of now it is spoke of as basement dwellers who can't function in society as the core of the group. As soon as a well known "Hollywood type" comes out and speaking for it then the imagery will change and so will women.

At least this is my take on it.

MattyAnon · 2016-01-08T16:19:57+00:00

The problem with "MGTOW" is that it is perceived as giving up, beta, omega, unattractive, struggling by without women, unable to get a woman.

As such it goes even more thoroughly against the grain than pickup - women can use pickup to their advantage (sex and options and getting a man), they can't use MGTOW to their direct advantage (other than tax dollars).

Personally I like sex too much to give up women entirely. But it's always me first, women second, fuck commitment. Fortunately women find this attitude appealing, at least for a time.

4mg1n3 · 2016-01-08T16:17:15+00:00

Are we seeing a generation of young men that will opt out of dating altogether?

This is an interesting question, and the answer is not easily determinable. My suspicion is that the younger MGTOW generation reflect the effects of the so-called nuclear family deconstructing. In the same way that a population of citizens will grow unhappy with their government as the presiding model becomes obsolete, younger men are growing unhappy with the cultural model that is teaching them to go against their own male instincts.

Having experienced this myself as a twenty year old male, I can personally say that the dating scene for people my age has become viscerally one-sided in favor of women--this paradigm if you will, in combination with having been raised by a feminist single mother, has really left me (and many others like me) with one of two options:

MGTOW or swim.

What are your thoughts on the impression that MGTOW gives to the masses?

Given the presiding cultural framework, recalcitrancy towards things like PUA, MGTOW, and TRP are to be expected. As for my thoughts on how people perceive these things, I think that the general consensus that they are "misogynistic" or "hateful," is not only unfair and incorrect, but also flagrantly retarded. Again, this "feminist" perception (the MGTOW antipode as it were) stems from the same cultural model that is actually provoking men to go their own way. People are radicalizing their views because there no longer exists a gold-standard for normalcy--to cite an example, we are now encouraged to call transgender folks "normal" and celebrate their fortitude, but by the same token are encouraged to ridicule, demonize, and even incriminate men that express their own cis-gender heterosexuality.

In other words, both the red and blue pills are presented in the matrix of choice--and due to the fact that the blue pill choice has been so dominant recently, there has instanced, naturally, an influx of red pill equalizers. People are beginning to realize the effectiveness of the nuclear family model, and are taking steps to re-establishing it as the cultural paradigm. MGTOW is simply a way for men to declare, "We refuse to partake in a game in which the odds are so heavily stacked against us. We are complete without your validation."

What interests me also, is that many feminists share a similar view to this "declaration" of sort--which is further testament to the observation that both sides have birthed from the same/similar culturally oppressive phenomena.

Do you believe that we will reach a point where it will become a mainstream lifestyle for most men?

My prediction is that the moderate feminists will eventually depart from the radical ones, and create a WGTOW movement that resembles MGTOW. I predict that women will begin taking the red pill pursuant to the men that they admire, and will begin embracing their feminine instincts in a way that compliments our own masculine instincts. MGTOW and WGTOW will combine into an egalitarian cultural model (PGTOW, people going their own ways) that acknowledges the differences between men and women, as well as the commonalities.

People will once again become confident with their sexual identities.

T0000009 · 2016-01-08T21:03:09+00:00

MGTOW gets such a bad rep is because a good handful of the community are known to be “nerds” and “neckbeards” who just sit around and complain.

Let's see about dispelling a few "myths & rumors".....

FIRST: In the old day's they were called life long bachelors, and such to describe a man who was a loner, or recluse, and had no real use for the trapping of polite society. That was back before the web and clueless kids yapping about what some other idiot told them on twitter. The days before the public lost the ability to think critically and actually knew things and stuff.

SECOND: I happen to be former special op's, have ran a gym, and also commercial and residential construction projects, owned several companies, have traveled the world and the U.S., used to speak a few languages, but don't anymore. Have rode bull's along with working the farmlands, the whole fucking deal. I have set up fiber channel networks for Alcatel, and the whole range of IT guru shit.

That's like a tiny sample... Which IS NOT some low rent Schmuck, who cant score dames and lacks the gravitas to make knees weak and panties wet.

THIRD: So fucking what if I sit around on my fat ass kvetching on some message board in my spare time. all those little fucking dweeb's making a fuss about it don't mean shit to me, and MY VALUE isn't based on the rantings of some fat nasty sow on twitter or her gaggle of weak willed pushovers.

FOURTH: I've been married, I did the "committed" relationship with all the trimmings, I've loved and lost big time, got used and abused, and all the rest. I have chased skirts in far off lands too... Big deal, so what, it don't make me no better than the next swinging dick to walk by because a million other blokes have done all this shit too.

FINALLY: For me, the whole thing is just easier, and less hassle. It's low cost, low stress, and so what If I'm not out getting any action. Like I even care.... Have you seen the massively diminished quality of all these fat ugly bitches ranting about how much the world owes them? Sure, I wanted the whole white picket fence and a nice bungalow in the burbs with a choice sedan in the drive, but I discovered how big of a fools errand that really is so I tossed it like yesterdays paper.

icancantcan · 2016-01-08T18:29:11+00:00

Where we will end up with some bitch on our back, the best of the mgtow men will continue to pave the way for a revised and better format for sexual selection. mgtow is about regaining power and value for men, without the distraction of women.

TrainingTheBrain · 2016-01-08T17:18:08+00:00

I need a clarification. For those who promote MGTOW are you saying you do your own thing with zero interest in relationships or even spinning plates but you still are fucking chicks

OR

Do you follow your mission and completely remove pussy from your life?

henry2nd · 2016-01-08T21:28:08+00:00

One of the other things to consider is how much importance males put into getting women to give them sex. Especially MRAs and PUAs that do not wish to disconnect from females, they want to level the playing field. MGTOWs simply say fuck it, I am out of here.

When you devote so much of your time getting into a female's pants, people who say 'no thanks, I am happy without dealing with that shit' are a direct threat to them and their life strategies. Instead of being revered for their awesome game and ability to interact with the opposite sex, they are getting laughed at from a similar male community.

deaduponaviral · 2016-01-09T00:18:08+00:00

Acquire Currency, Disregard Females. MGTOW for me came down to a cost benefit analysis. I haven't given up on women;still get laid when I go out to take a break from my career. But career, myself, and hobbies come first. Women are faaaar down my pyramid of needs.

Trim the fat, hate, and extraneous bullshit from life and you'll be 100 times happier. The toys and free time don't hurt either; they develop you into a more interesting person, set you apart from the rest of the herd, and actually attract women into your orbit. If a girl ever brings up commitment I ask them if the don't already enjoy the time we spend together. Who needs to make something official?

"The Lion, Tiger, and Bear may all be powerful, but the wolf doesn't perform for the circus"

NeoreactionSafe · 2016-01-08T17:06:23+00:00

There are simple formulas:

Alpha = Frame + Game

...but for the person who is less far along we have:

MGTOW = Frame

...those who are Blue Pill:

Beta = Slavery

...and let's not forget:

PUA = Game

...from this we might derive:

MGTOW + PUA = Alpha

...which is kind of funny,

redpillavatar · 2016-01-08T16:52:56+00:00

First of all, MGTOW is not stopping to have romantic relationships with women. MGTOW varies in definition but the leaders of the movement, Barbarossa & Stardusk, generally define it as avoiding marriage, and in many cases, avoiding having children. MGTOWs can still plate. Sandman may view this differently.

TRPers that intend never to marry or have children with women may fit the MGTOW definition. Lots of folks are trying to jump on the bandwagon, with AVFM, Aaron Clarey, and more from the general MRM movement trying to lay claim to the name. Some, led in part by AVFM, have tried to define MGTOW as including married folks. This is incorrect, though I do like what AVFM does overall in defense of male rights.

Part of the MGTOW philosophy is checking out of a society that increasingly pushes exploitation of men for female advantage. I'm not a MGTOW, but I do see them as the shock troops of our resistance movement.

Edit: children with women

AOF_Semiramis · 2016-01-08T17:53:55+00:00

Do you believe that we will reach a point where it will become a mainstream lifestyle for most men?

Well..old post from here but..there was already an Ancient version of MGTOW going on back then.To the point they had to add a "Bachelor's Tax" for it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_Papia_Poppaea#Promotion_of_Marriage

Anyway,funny how i fit in that age range(22 right now),though i at least am diagnosed with a "mental defect",being asexual from birth.(Its a genetic advantage if you ask me,lmao!).Other non-asexuals who MGTOW & go monk mode can still purchase escorts and doing that would be easy since no pussy pedestal=easy drive to work financially for themselves.This doesn't mean i,nor other MGTOWs,are going to let themselves go and be braindead retards.You'd need money to fuel hobbies & shit you want to do(like Skydiving or guns),so that means you still need to learn some game,even if you just limit it to office stuff.Working on a dead-bit job without trying to improve your $$ means that you'd take years to buy that sexy-ass Tracking-Point Rifle while the TRP Alpha who earns 6-7 figures can buy it +already enjoy it within 2-weeks tops. Contrary to popular belief,you actually need high SMV DESPITE how you'e sworn away from pussy.The Halo-Effect is real & in the rat-race,this can make the difference between getting a job upgrade,keeping your job,or not.(Unless your lucky enough to land in men-only jobs..but we all know how feminists are trying to invade those)

Its really disgusting how its used as a cop-out reason to not improve one's self,seriously...

Foctopus · 2016-01-08T18:04:25+00:00

You're not Mgtow if you're whining about not getting respect.

whisky1111 · 2016-01-08T19:03:24+00:00

It's all good! 3/4 of the battle is getting men to wake up to the fact they were sold a fantasy about women. No matter what the name of the movement as long as it's based on that fact, the rest is just window dressing.

BRENDORVEGAS · 2016-01-08T22:10:48+00:00

I'm one foot in the door with MGTOW. I still enjoy plating, but I've yet to meet a woman that has both the looks to make me desire her and the personality to maintain my interest in her. Most women bore the shit out of me after a few weeks. And let's face it, I'm an average looking guy at best so unless I hit the lottery, I ain't going to be banging anything over an 8 unless it's a hooker.

A man's gotta know his limitations.

In the meantime, there's a bunch of cool stuff to do on this planet and I have a mountain of personal goals to climb. Life ain't that bad

Spiral-knight · 2016-01-09T00:06:38+00:00

To each their own. If a bloke wants to live life for himself that's his right and call. The distinction between the "angry beta" and MGTOW is, in my mind, one of mindset. The former wallows in the now without plan or passion while the latter wants something else from life- and strives for it.

The MGTOW male doesn't bitch and moan about not getting laid. He legitimately has better things to do with his time.

IliadsTangent · 2016-01-09T03:00:11+00:00

MGTOW is a rational reaction to a very lopsided sexual marketplace. If we categorize sex as a product , we can define the rational nature of MGTOW.

Basically a market regardless of commodity applies only to folks who are willing and able to purchase a certain product. You need both, or no sale is possible. I sure as shit am willing to drive a McClaren MP12 , but Gordon Murray won't be taking my phone calls anytime soon because I don't remotely have the ability yet to buy his products.

When it comes to sex, the pussy cartel (ie women)in Matriarchial Society is only willing to do business with the top 10% of males at any given time. The other 90% don't matter, because they either lack the looks and/or the money to pay for her pussy. Even Chad has to give up his time and validation on those 2am booty calls.

If a guy is in the 90% , you're in the spot I am with McClaren Motorcars. Females today have so many options even the top guys have to compete for her attention to some extent.

So, what do you do ? A man can lift and improve himself, but some attraction factors are non-negotiable. Not everyone can be a millionaire (hyperinflationary fuckups aside ) , and not every man can hit the weights and start slaying pussy.

The guys who are , for one reason or another (incurable health issues, injury, financial /legal obstacles, etc) unable to compete at the 20% level aren't the least bit hurt by deciding to pull chips and walk away from a market that honestly doesn't want or appreciate them.

Why waste time chasing a title and "deal" you'll never get? It's akin to me wishing I could buy a McClaren. My time is better spent elsewhere on more productive pursuits. So it goes for the MGTOWs who rationally decide to exit the SMP.

htbf · 2016-01-08T15:55:22+00:00

You could have at least said what are the MGTOW principles and how is different from the RP male sexual strategy.

pirateninj4 · 2016-01-08T18:03:12+00:00

The whole planet will be TOW as long as the wealth distribution remains massively fucked up. It's just starting with dudes who got jipped by Disney.

Linrraba · 2016-01-08T18:23:18+00:00

I dont consider myself mgtow but when im talking with my friends about not wanting to marry or having kids they agree with me on the logical level but the truth is they think that im a closeted gay.

CaptainGloom · 2016-01-09T02:31:29+00:00

One of my friends was MGTOW without knowing it till I introduced him to it. He never wanted a relationship in HS and still hasn't had one since, voluntarily, as he thinks they are a waste of time. So yes, it is likely a generation will grow up that contains a large group of men who don't want to date.

0xdada · 2016-01-09T04:42:52+00:00

The TRP version of this post is: "MGTOWs don't command respect."

The whole notion of "deserve," is a bluepill frame. It presupposes a hypothetical situation in which you have something that you in fact do not, or that the reason you have something is because by having it, it was granted by divine justice.

In case the red pill is caught in your gag reflex: You deserve nothing. The world owes you nothing. Women owe you nothing. There is only what you win, take, allow, and accept.

Someone who deserves respect, by definition, is someone unworthy of it.

CuntyMcFagNuts69 · 2016-01-08T16:33:43+00:00

Looking for respect is pretty much Anti MGTOW. You honestly should not give a shit about any validation

Joseph_the_Carpenter · 2016-01-08T23:56:17+00:00

My dad is the definition of badass: rugged ex-military, dragraced cars and motorcycles in his youth, entrepreneur and businessman, greatest guy you will ever meet, and has given away more money than any fuck on this subreddit will make in their lifetime. He is among the few men that have literally changed the world.

He is the ideal of of MGTOW: from single, married and divorced women were never that appealing to him compared to the things he was doing with his life. There are not a whole lot of quality women out there and he has weighed the cost of trying to find the rare one worth having versus doing other things he wants to do and concluded it isn't worth it. I was telling him in a roundabout way about this community, and he agrees there's nothing new here, and as out of shape and old as he is he could go around town and pick up a couple of women if he desired, and I believe him.

If you are considering MGTOW, be my dad first. Don't use it as a justification for your low as fuck value to the world or a means to give up on yourself.

TheJedi_Lied · 2016-01-09T04:14:22+00:00

I think about the difference between MGTOW and RP as breaking your addiction to female validation and sex. Being able to comfortably do without and not crave those things probably gives you a lot of mental freedom and instead of chasing your biological imperative, you go your own way.

OP: I can't speak for everyone my age (25), but after finding TRP I had a little monk mode stretch and then got back out and started plating. Definitely upped my notch count, but it felt too much like work. I eventually let them all fall off and deleted my Tinder acct because I'd rather spend my time doing other stuff. That was two months ago and I'm perfectly happy. I wouldn't consider myself MGTOW (yet), but if I could lose the desire (that drives me to go out of my way) for women/sex completely, I would.

Edit: dropped last plate 6 weeks ago

xkulp8 · 2016-01-09T04:50:28+00:00

it directly challenges our biological need to procreate and reproduce

The biological "need" you refer to is to have sex, not to breed/reproduce.

destinypallooker · 2016-01-09T05:13:31+00:00

[deleted]

What is this?

CowardlyPetrov · 2016-01-09T06:00:06+00:00

Whenever I discuss MGTOW to other men in face to face conversations (especially in older and married men) the reception has been overwhelmingly positive.

Exactly what MGTOW needs is these conversations on podcats or even better imo since I prefer to read is just written from recollection (or both these things!).

I would say part of the problem is that when you go looking for MGTOW faces many of those faces are incel faggot nerds. Like those fat MGTOW losers I think I saw in Lauren Southern's videos on slutwalks. I couldn't find the clip, but it was those fat neckbeards with gopros tapped to their chins.

this_guy2001 · 2016-01-09T07:24:53+00:00

MGTOW = Meet Gangbang Ten Other Women

Joking

Acheronian_Rose · 2016-01-09T16:12:07+00:00

I want to go my own way. Because I get sick of hearing older generations talk about how things should be for my life, just because thats how they conducted their life. I want to pursue my dream of touring the US by motorcycle, and i am NOT having kids

MyRedAccount · 2016-01-08T23:05:00+00:00

MGTOW is basically a rebranding of bachelor IMO, which if you look back through history is, if by choice, basically the opposite of old maid.

MortalSisyphus · 2016-01-08T22:24:53+00:00

The problem with MGTOW is that it caters to male hamstering. Beta males who are too lazy to improve or who feel hopeless or who are just terrified of rejection may try to convince themselves they don't really want to be in a relationship, or that women and relationships are so terrible it's just not worth it.

It isn't that they legitimately believe such things to be true, but that the alternative is too painful to face. It's like a kid who loses at chess telling himself the game is just for nerds anyway. It is a psychological defense mechanism.

Of course, this doesn't apply to all MGTOW men, but it does apply to a lot of them. I think MGTOW should rightfully carry a negative connotation so long as it is being used as a hamster tool by incels. They need to be told to get off their ass and put in the work and stop fearing women and stop fearing rejection. They need to be told that if they are loner virgins they aren't "going their own way," there is just something wrong with them and they need to fix it.

I know I'm going to be told "MGTOW is really about X and Y," I'm just referring to what I've seen from the people who talk about MGTOW.

-Anteros- · 2016-01-09T03:15:50+00:00

MGTOW Doesn't Get The Respect It Deserves

Now why is that? We know that its not respectable for a man to quit, to run away from that which he finds appealing (all healthy young men find women appealing). Let alone walking away from a challenge, which women today are.

Lets set a definition. From our side bar glossary:

Men Going Their Own Way; the growing contingent of the male population who are saying “Fuck It All” to the Mating Dance.

MGTOW are committing an act of self-betrayal. Especially the younger ones. They don't seem to realize an important fact: Eventually we all go MGTOW. Its called "Getting old".

MGTOW just gives a feeling of validation to a generation of young men wasting their days on videogames and porn, completely hoodwinked into thinking that they are wasting nothing by doing so. There is no book, no art, no website that will teach a young man more than he would learn by going out and socializing. Particularly with women he is interested in.

Yes, dating sucks. Yes, it has never been this hard. No, young men should not give up. They should change strategies and improve their socializing skill while they have the energy and availability to do so. Throwing their opportunity in the trash is self-betrayal even if they don't realize the mistake they are making.

Even worse, by accepting the validation that MGTOW provides, they are taking on an identity that other people have made for them.

backlash from women because it is a direct threat to their sexual strategy

Absolutely not. Read the sidebar. They will happily move on to the available men, particularly the top 20%.

Even those that are in happy relationships seem to understand why MGTOW makes sense and can come to a rational agreement and support the freedom that MGTOW gives men.

Running away is not freedom. Freedom when one is able to do something one wants to do. This is granted via the right perspective, which is for a man to put himself first. MGTOW cannot lay claim to this perspective or any other self-improvement despite its attempts to redefine itself.

However it is not meant to be a lifetime commitment as it directly challenges our biological need to procreate and reproduce.

This is somewhat correct but for the wrong reasons. The challenge from MGTOW is not to our biology but to our freedom, which is (indirectly) what MGTOW will do to a young man as he ages.

From the MGTOW subreddit sidebar definition:

"We are men going our own way by forging our own identities and paths to self-defined success; cutting through collective ideas of what a man is."

forging our own identities

Admirable try. Identity is created by harsh experiences and reactions from others, as undesirable as that may be. Also, interpersonal identity is not as self defined as one would hope

paths to self-defined success

Here is the problem: If one does not know what a successful life is or its potential, how would one know what success is or can be? I ask rhetorically because its clear that younger men do not personally know their potential . They have no business writing off the things they aspire to, this is essentially why MGTOW gets a bad rap, as it should.

The men who experience high levels of success do everything they can to continue it and increase it. They do not check out because of the complaints that MGTOW espouse.

cutting through collective ideas of what a man is.

Thanks to feminists and gender identity politics "A man" is a murky concept that everyone believes they have a valid opinion on. Young men are understandably unclear about it.

Here is a part of one of my definitions: A man changes his environment to his will, as best he can.

Here is a good book on the matter

In conclusion, game (Socializing) is a skill and if every MGTOW built up that skill instead of rationalizing away his retreat there would be no such thing as MGTOW. I have empathy for these boys but they are making the wrong choice. We only live once.

TheLolomancer · 2016-01-09T04:53:53+00:00

Stop bitching. You sound like a woman.

J_AsapGem · 2016-01-09T15:06:03+00:00

I honestly believe we will reach that time, i'm 23 and strongly thinking about going MGTOW, it just doesn't seem worth it, to deal with all the stress and having to worry about false accusations, as you said it shouldn't be a lifetime thing, but i think everyone should go through it for a year or two, we need to do it, women has gained superior power to destroy any man as they please, evidently it's our fault ( betas ) for boosting these women egos out of proportion, the only way to fix ( attempt to ) society is to go MGTOW, let them rationalize why they aren't getting as much attention as they use too so that ego can be tone down.

fightlikeacunt · 2016-01-09T20:57:38+00:00

Everything gets the respect it deserves

LegElbow · 2016-01-09T00:23:57+00:00

You don't even explain what it is. How is it similar and different from TRP.

Anyway, any philosophy that doesn't advocated self improvement as the core component is a dead end.

Fuggernugger · 2016-01-09T02:55:47+00:00

MGTOW movement contradicts itself. It's like an anarchist movement, something that should not exist by its very nature. If you focus on yourself and don't care for the opinions of others then you don't need a support group to use as your emotional tampon.

ArtTheRussian · 2016-01-09T03:29:58+00:00

MGTOW should be ridiculed, it's someone giving up and giving up shouldn't be praised no matter what. Also you don't quit something if you can get it, you only quit when it's not possible for you to attain it.

indlife · 2016-01-09T11:51:19+00:00

I'm a member of a forum that discusses current world events and how they would impact life. It is mostly a forum focused on preparedness in all aspects of life. The members are wide ranging in personality, but seem to be older. I would say mostly late 40s to early 60s. A few of the long term male posters have been recently divorced within just the last handful of years. They have all taken the red pill to some extent. Many are very vocal on news articles about relationships and how young men should view them.

Some of the older female members get upset when these guys talk of not committing, that a low n-count guy should never LTR or marry a party girl, etc.. While the forum is overwhelmingly conservative overall, many people have come to accept that sex between young men and women outside of marriage is going to happen. Many also know that young women are under alot of mass media pop culture pressure to be like the boys when it comes to partying and sex during their youth.

I myself warn the younger guys about the current state of things. Some understand and are really lightweight Chad types. I say light weight because they focus on things other than getting women, but those top guys do have success when trying to get girls, to some extent. I do feel for some of the more laid low guys. Some have or have had girlfriends, so some are at least getting something.

MGTOW scares the shit out of many people. It is a virtual death sentence of any given culture if enough men go that way. Even if you legalize polygamy, there won't be enough men willing to work hard and be taxed a oppresive rates. Not enough men willing to fight wars. It also gets attacked because it causes many women to become single fo life and that upsets their family members that they didn't get the dying nuclear family of the past. I don't know if the movement will ever be large enough to really be meaningful. People are still getting married, though the age of first marriage is becoming older. We could reach a point where all the productive members of society here in the US wait till after 30 to marry. I think this will mostly be a result of former horrible beta types turning into serial monogamist for years as they get some sort of sexual variety. If they MGTOW till 33 or older, most will likely travel abroad and have some success. And now that any-thing goes sexual culture has fully arrived in the US, many won't feel bad about getting a group sex or threesome experience at a legal brothel abroad. In face, if the powers that be think beta guys are holding off marriage due to lace of sexual experiences in their youth, watch as they start legalizing some for of prostitution in other states. One legislator in a New England state has already filed a bill this year to legalize it in that state. The article I read didn't even have any moral panic. In a county now accepting of gay marriage, slut walks, championing young women for high n-counts, how can sex for money really be all that bad?

RP_puaghow111 · 2016-01-09T02:53:25+00:00

Three things bother me about MGTOW, and yes, I've spent quite a bit of time listening to MGTOW gurus on YouTube.

Leaving the plantation but talking about the plantation all the time. (Cognitive dissonance, much?)
Thinking that they're a "movement" like MRA's. If you know anything about female nature, you know you can't change female nature. A billion men could go MGTOW and it won't change female nature one iota. You can't change women into men any more than you can change cats into dogs. Talk of MGTOW recruitment and "spreading the MGTOW message" is absolutely retarded.
PUA-shaming. It's a reflex action they have. And what's funnier is they think PUA's have no advice to offer. Every now and again a MGTOW will post on the MGTOW sub about "heading back to the plantation." Imho, I think if they don't go back into it without first exploring PUA/Seduction boards, they're goddamn idiots playing in traffic.

Thotwrecker · 2016-01-08T21:19:22+00:00

I have no beef with MGTOW in theory and would consider myself a MGTOW except for the fact that I believe dealing with women, learning game, learning plating, learning relationship management, and so on is a critically important part of becoming a man.

You cannot avoid it; at some point, you need to learn how to attract women and more importantly, effectively manage them after you attract them. Most MGTOWs I've seen on the internet are correct in their theoretical knowledge, but so fucking hamstery about everything.

Yes, women are a waste of time, but that's not you're an incel. You're an incel because your low SMV and unattractive, and THAT's why women give you the short end of the stick. When you are high SMV and you know how to deal with women, they can actually be a lot of fun and will do a lot for you. Don't hamster your failures as "I choose to avoid women because they suck, I'm going my own way!"

I don't respect people who don't pursue what they want. I don't buy that all the men on MGTOW "don't want to get laid / have GFs / plates /ONS etc". I think they are being contemptuous of that which they cannot get, as a way to feel superior. That to me is hamstery and weak.

MGTOW's ideology is going to attract incels using the label to rationalize, and as such, the community is always going to be full of BP guys looking to feel RP.

I'm sure a lot of the theory and literature the experienced guys post there is gold, just like with TRP. But they are running from something that's difficult and uncomfortable for them (mastering the art of attracting and managing plates), and this is a deal-breaker for me. The fact that someone quoted Rorschach in here is a perfect illustration of how MTGOW's mentally masturbate themselves to this point of societal important, like the whole world is going to look up the men who have Gone Galt and cry "save us"... and they will reply "No."

Get real. No one is going to notice another 1% of guys deciding to go herbivore. No one will give a fuck, society will not change. Shifting from beta to omega means nothing because either way you are not really a valued player in the sexual market.

Having a rational self interest and Randian sense of "me first" is important. Inventing narratives where "society will pay" or "all the good guys will be gone and women will have to pay for their decisions" is BP as fuck and intolerably hamstery in my opinion.

"MGTOW theory" is TRP. "MGTOW community" is people who are too fucking beta to actually do the hard work of putting RP ideals into practice and raising SMV to the point where you can enter the dating game favorably.

The dating game is really awesome when you can play it from the top. It's just shitty and terrible when you play it from the bottom or middle, and MGTOWs don't see beyond their own subjective reality.

Derbi50 · 2016-01-08T23:35:47+00:00

I am probably a MGTOW by their standards. Don't wwant any LTRs anytime soon, give zero fucks about the shaming and, "when are you going to settle down with a nice girl" comments, own my own businesses/future, own property, enjoy many hobbies, stack paper, etc.

That being said I would NEVER self identify as a MGTOW. I don't care about girls attempting to shame me, but I need pussy to be content in life. Just built that way. As soon as you identify as a MGTOW you go from, "a lone wolf doing his own thing" to "an angry butt hurt beta who can't get laid."

Garconanokin · 2016-01-09T00:54:55+00:00

If someone wants/needs respect for going "their" own way, was it really truly their own to begin with?

stawek · 2016-01-08T16:48:41+00:00

MGTOW is obviously going to get a ton of backlash from women because it is a direct threat to their sexual strategy

Wrong.

Mgtow is exactly what feminists want: unattractive men policing themselves to stay away from women and not cockblocking Chads while paying lots and lots of taxes to support all their bastards.

the root cause is daddy state. Everyone who contributes keeps it afloat.

You don't have the option to not play this game unless you stop paying taxes. Go to prison or something if you want to change the system.

ashkanarthur · 2016-01-08T17:38:13+00:00

MGTOW is great in theory, but if you check out the subreddit or any other MGTOW spaces online, it seems to be a bunch of whiners, guys who took the time they would normally spend grovelling for some pussy and spending it complaining about how women are evil. Go check out our mgtow subreddit, it's true. The idea is great, and it deserves praise, but very few people seem to actually be "going their own way". It's more like "MGTCO" Men Going To Cry Online.

Beegsi_ · 2016-01-08T19:43:19+00:00

Mgtow is what woke me up less than a year ago and I still respect their decisions and their levels.

Red pill is what made me remember what it means to be a man and how to be happy.

But I'll tell you what truly makes me happy and what I try to follow as a way of life it's my religion Islam, I couldn't find happiness in any other ways or philosophies. That which oppose my religion from the red pill like dating and such I reject it but other things like holding frame, being stoic, lifting and improving your condition in job and social ranking I take. We men have been backed into a corner we must be the best versions of ourselves because don't count on society to save you or anybody. It's that simple. Be self-sufficient. Have Patience.

Sdom1 · 2016-01-08T18:59:05+00:00

MGTOW gets no respect because nobody likes a quitter. Men respect men who can fight or otherwise compete. Nobody respects the kid who takes his ball and runs home because he sucks at the game.

letsgetrandy · 2016-01-08T20:59:13+00:00

I don't know if I've missed something, because I honestly can't be arsed to spend a bunch of time trying to parse MGTOW's position...

The impression I had gotten was that it started with the premise simply that marriage is not necessary or even desirable — and that is a position I can agree with — but that it has evolved into a sort of permanent monk mode, which is something I think is ridiculous. The idea of discarding women from your life altogether seems like a fool's cop-out, not to mention ensures the end of your genes.

Have I misunderstood the point of their group?

thenemaxofredpill · 2016-01-08T22:46:22+00:00

They don't get respect because they serious sit there and say that they no longer want anything to do with women and out of the same mouth say that they don't fap. Yeah...ok Mr. Fantasy.

Title	MGTOW Doesn't Get The Respect It Deserves
Author	JimProphetMGTOW
Upvotes	192
Comments	185
Date	January 8, 2016 3:22 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/401hwh/mgtow_doesnt_get_the_respect_it_deserves/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/mgtow-doesnt-get-the-respect-it-deserves.55186 https://theredarchive.com/post/55186

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