Red pill parenting: Why Spanking is breaking frame

apskidb · 2016-04-26T23:40:40+00:00

If he says something mean, I don't speak to him without an apology (unless of course, it's an emergency).

This seems a little passive aggressive to me.

RedMindBlueEyes · 2016-04-27T09:09:12+00:00

I am a red pill parent. I never had to lay a hand on my children, and they are well behaved in my presence, do whatever chores I lay on them without a single mutter. In fact, they like it when I ask them to contribute.

Why? Because ever since they were infants, I conditioned them into the notion that we are a pack, a team, a tribe, and that we work best when we work together. And since the pack needs a leader, I've given them the leader they feel comfortable following, to them it makes sense that I am in charge, it makes them feel safe, and they light up when I aks them to do something.

Without writing a whole book on the subject, I can give an example from their infancy (like I said, I started early). Their mother, who is now my ex, could spend almost 2 hours without getting them to sleep at night, individually. I seldomly needed more than 10 minutes. All I did was lay down next to the child, wrap my arms around his/her tiny little body, breathe slowly, and while providing a comforting presence, not allow for any wiggling around. They relaxed and fell asleep in no time.

Later, when they grew a bit older, they started getting rowdy with their mother, and she had a hard time keeping them in line. She sometimes exploded emotionally, which usually ended in someone crying (most of the times her).

When her emotional arguments with the children dragged on too long, sometimes I only needed to say her name to make her understand she had entered their frame.

I explained to her once, that me and her were the leaders of a wolf pack, and that she wasn't living up to her part, which made the other wolves nervous, resulting in their attacking her. She knew what I meant, but was unable to become a leader.

We split up some time ago. Like I said, the kids are well behaved in my presence, both at my place, and when I visit them at their mother's place. When I'm not there? Not so much.

And I never hurt them, emotionally or physically. My daughter chewed out her mother once, because the mother had gotten angry again. The mother asked why she never yelled at me. My daughter said "Dad gets strict, you get angry."

Call it stoic or whatever. But it's perfectly possible to raise your kids without being physical. If you were brought up, and spanked, because you were ill behaved or whatever justification you give your parents, know this:

If you were ill behaved enough to warrant a spanking, they had already failed.

Clint_Redwood · 2016-04-27T02:35:33+00:00

Breaking frame is a failure to control emotions or letting someone rile you. If a kid gets you so mad you are wailing on him, yes you broke frame. But if you are spanking your child to teach him accountability and consequences for his actions, no, you're not breaking frame.

The best way to parent is to remain calm, collected, and methodical.

Absolutely agree, and you can spank a kid and be completely calm, cool and collected. You tell him exactly why he's getting spanked and you make sure he knew the rule before he broke it. It's a lesson, not an emotional vent you get to exploit.

Spanking is just an action. Breaking frame is about how you conduct yourself and the emotions behind your actions. not the actions themselves.

With that said, spanking is a capital punishment. Not, "eat your vegetables". I was spanked a total of 3 times and it was doing shit that could have possibly gotten me killed or hurt someone else. My father hit me once on each occasion and I damn well remembered the lesson.

EnlightenedViking · 2016-04-27T03:38:00+00:00

Oldest of four boys here- I got the belt by dad and wooden spoon by mom. Middle brother got both AND less attention as a kid. Let's just say his self worth is seriously lacking at 23 and I'm doing everything I can to help him shake it. Starting with giving him a copy of No More Mr. Nice guy.

I'm not spanking my sons - I agree 100% that it's a loss of frame.

Anytime I see people hit or beat their kids/dogs their usually people who don't have their shit together.

play_time_is_over · 2016-04-27T11:56:37+00:00

It has been shown that the same negative mental and psychological development occurs in kids that are spanked and physically abused.

So strictly speaking science shows there are no identifiable differences between spanking your children and physically abusing them.

Don't spank your children, it will fuck them up. You don't need to know why spanking isn't "alpha" or some bullshit. If you spank them you will fuck them up.

CrodudeClassic · 2016-04-27T00:12:24+00:00

I disagree. I was a little shit growing up, always testing the parents' boundaries. Mother spanked me a lot, most of the time I pretended it hurt, but on occasion I would get the dad-spank.

And holy HELL did it hurt. That being said, he was always completely calm when he did it, never angry, and immediately afterwards he asked me to explain to him why he did that, and what I should do to prevent that from happening again. I always did, and I usually never got spanked by him for the same reason, but even as a child I KNEW that I fucked up and was being disrespectful.

Looking back am very glad father punished me in the way he did, I've met too many peers and coworkers that were conditioned by their parents to whine/bitch until they got their way. None of them got spanked, and even fewer of them have any sort of self-discipline.

EDIT: This was typical punishment as a younger child, I think spanking becomes less effective as one gets older. My parents probably felt the same way because after ~8 years old I never receieved another spanking. I'd get things I enjoyed (internet, trampoline, etc) taken away for X period of time. Or I'd have to shovel all the dog shit in the backyard into a pile around our cherry tree. Things like that.

nooooou · 2016-04-27T02:18:20+00:00

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AtillaTheTough · 2016-04-27T13:48:12+00:00

Saying spanking helps is retarded.

I bet you my ass spanking mostly serves to increase aggression and disobedience from children. I know it's a more liberal position but on this one point I have to agree with that. Fuck blindly following ideology.

Lots of you give anecdotal evidence that it made you obey your parents so I'll just give mine and say that it did the complete opposite. Made me want to rebel and test the boundaries that much more. In fact I resented my parents for doing it.

You teach kids not to do some sort of behavior because they're going to get beat not because that behavior is wrong. What kind of a retarded lesson is that.

People who say look I had it done to me plenty of times and I am a completely normal and well-adjusted person are usually fucked up in my experience they just don't acknowledge it.

aanarchist · 2016-04-27T05:23:39+00:00

initiation of force on your children is a sign of failure as a parent. there's nothing more beta than hitting your child.

stefan molyneux has a book called peaceful parenting, i think it's great personally. children aren't stupid, in fact they're the smartest fuckers you'll ever meet, and that's why so many parents get angry at them, because weak people will have their shit pushed in by them, intellectually. that's why they have to resort to force to get them to do what they want, because their way of life is fundamentally wrong and a child that hasn't yet been fed the blue pill won't mindlessly obey just because. children ask infinite questions to try to make sense of the world, they expose their parents flaws, hypocrisy and inconsistency, and no parent is humble enough to get their shit together, preferring to force compliance instead.

Ceemore_Richards · 2016-04-27T01:40:42+00:00

When I was a boy, I played with fire. One day my father found out. So, he got out his leather belt (the big one with the big brass buckle) and put an end to it.

Never played with fire again.

Its a legitimate way to set a strong boundary of what is NOT OK. The trick is it must be used SPARINGLY and with GOOD REASON. Not letting your house get burned down, for example.

sir_wankalot_here · 2016-04-27T00:39:43+00:00

To paraphrase The Art of War, of you have to go to war, you fucked up.

[deleted] · 2016-04-28T20:57:48+00:00

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welcome_to · 2016-04-27T05:37:47+00:00

I completely agree that spanking is breaking frame.

I see a lot of people in this thread taking about how "I'm gonna spank my kids the way I was spanked", or that "it's ok as long as it's not in anger"

All of that just sounds like excuses for dudes who can't handle a fucking child.

If you think it's hard to punish a child without hitting them, then I pity your weak mind and your chances with women.

foldpak111 · 2016-04-27T05:37:50+00:00

I'm a big follower of former Police officer/UFC fighter, and current Gym Jones general manager, Bobby "Maximus" Macdonald. Just following his IG, twitter, FB, and workout videos featuring him just bleeds the fact that he doesn't hit his son.

I recently listened to a podcast featuring him on dad bod bullshit and the t-ball society we live in (it's archived in TRP, check it out when you get a chance) and a great tactic he uses with not only the athletes he trains, but his own son, is giving people a choice as apposed to forcing a task onto them. It's well documented in sports psychology that if you give a client a choice in which cardiovascular machine they want to use for an interval weight training session, they are more likely to want to push themselves in the workout because you gave them ownership. He asks his son if he wants to hit a new PR on the 2000m row or "play". Funnily enough, he doesn't act up because he is born into a good family structure that knows how to treat their offspring.

I'd recommend everyone follow his updates. He posts a lot of motivational posts and videos.

Royalartist · 2016-04-27T14:06:44+00:00

My 2¢. I raised three girls mostly by myself and they are all doing well, so that is my credentials. The best way to discipline kids is to be totally awesome with them so that they will do anything to keep the relationship the way it is. You play with them, do projects, go on trips whatever. You make yourself so desirable that your disapproval is enough to make them do whatever you say. It worked for me.

vengefully_yours · 2016-04-27T14:57:21+00:00

My sister had unruly kids,they don't listen to her, they are atrocious to be around. Her default is screaming at them, just like my mom did until she realized it doesn't work on me like it did the rest of them. With my kids, I had to spank the oldest twice. The younger got it three or four times. Their mother yelled all the time, but all I had to do was stand up, count to three, or sternly say "Hey" and they knew to stop doing that shit.

The thing is you can't have it as a default, it has to have some kind fuck and dread involved, it has to be only when the kid fucks up bad. If you scream and yell often, it's ineffective. They get used to it and it's meaningless, and if it's your only trick you're fucked.

I used the same thing in the military, when one of my guys fucked up or didn't do what I told him to do, I got quieter, I made them lean in to hear what I was saying. Later they told me I was the best to work for, but also the most terrifying, which is why people were efficient, effective, and most importantly safe when I was around. The NCOs who would yell and bounce off the walls were much more ineffective, and they had accidents all the time, I was calm, confident, in control and made good decisions without drama or too much time spent deciding.

Indecision, incompetence, inconsistency and inaction are your worst mistakes with kids and subordinates. They need to be led, not forced nor coerced, and the best way to lead is to find what motivates them. You shouldn't have to spank your kids very often, and you sure as hell shouldn't be mad at them when you do it.

StoicCrane · 2016-04-28T16:22:50+00:00

Spanking really cripples adult self-esteem and self worth later in life. I came from a single parent household where my ma was always on 10 with her emotions whenever she felt slighted by my brother or I. I recall a time when she literally tripped my older brother and sat on him when he was insistent of playing playstation with a neighbor because he felt isolated.

Needless to say it caught up with him. Not only is he haplessly compliant to women especially when it comes to money but he spends most of his spare time in sportbars or Starbucks just to be around other people. Spanking is abuse. Though every parent has a right to use it spanking effectively fucks up children's development and it shows in adulthood.

M1s4n7hr0p3 · 2016-04-27T01:08:28+00:00

Solidly disagree. You never hit a child in anger, but pain is the most effective compliance tool. Lead by example, but you can't set an example for an unfocused child. Spanking provides that focus.

Pwnemon · 2016-04-27T03:30:46+00:00

Spanking angrily isn't discipline, it's child abuse. Spanking should be done calmly and stoically just like administering any other punishment.

huge_gap · 2016-04-27T01:23:03+00:00

I was spanked as a young child (up until 4 or 5). I always had healthy respect for my Dad and was well-behaved.

When he spanked me, he wasn't angry. He was very stern, spanked me, asked if I knew what I did wrong, then said he loved me and hugged me.

I will spank my child the same way.

mandemscomin · 2016-04-27T00:01:29+00:00

This makes a lot of sense, so thanks for posting. I've always wondered if spanking/hitting is really that bad considering it's a very common disciplinary tool in Asia, and they seem to get on fine.

This part in particular resonated with me,

Furthermore, it teaches them that when they are bigger and stronger than you, they can ignore you. My mom, for example, stopped being able to discipline me at age 13, when I stopped letting her hit me.

Because that's basically what I do now. I ignore my mum pretty comfortably, she has no power over me, and this is something I hold close because it's something I didn't have as a child. I think I would respect my parents a lot more if they were reasonable instead of forceful.

dregofsociety · 2016-04-27T00:28:44+00:00

If you don't spank him, other men and systems will.

CinnaMagister · 2016-04-27T01:52:17+00:00

Spanking is breaking frame when done out of hot anger in the moment. If spanking is held out as a consequence for a particular action, then it is not breaking frame. It is merely the logical consequence of what was known.

50pluspiller · 2016-04-27T01:55:25+00:00

I spanked my children, but never in anger. It was well thought out and the rules and boundaries for spankable offenses was well known. Never slapped their face never used my hands, always some spanking object, as hands are supposed to be symbols of love.

By the time they were 6 or 7,I would just ask if "daddy should count". Never needed to spank after that age.

Readinglevelup · 2016-04-27T02:09:40+00:00

Haven't had time to think it through, so I don't know if I agree or not. HOWEVER, I do like the fact that you made a thread that isn't about women. I realize this subreddit is about sexual strategy, but I feel like we're missing out on some important discussions of what can constitute a red pill man. Good work.

Kal-Elder · 2016-04-27T02:43:06+00:00

Wilhelm Reichs psychology of mass fascism explains what happens when you are the "my way or the highway" parent and takes every objection to power as disrespect.

colucci · 2016-04-27T02:44:37+00:00

TRP is a few hours behind /pol/, as usual.

YaBoyKenno · 2016-04-27T04:03:28+00:00

I was only whipped well after I did whatever merited a whipping. My father made it clear to us that he would never strike us in anger, so as not to make us afraid of him, but to still enforce the punishment. If I decide to have kids, I'll do the same.

ilikthecutofyourjib · 2016-04-27T06:23:07+00:00

I highly suspect that pharma companies, like the one that probably funded that recent anti-spanking study, would rather parents discipline by doping their children on drugs - and this is the source of the lastest anti-spanking fad.

Source: Was raised by anti-spanking "kids are always right" blue pillers, was doped on drugs by big pharma rather than disciplined, ultimately ruining 10 years of my life before I swallowed the pill.

fecesfacial · 2016-04-27T13:02:25+00:00

This may interest non-spankers

http://inpraiseofargument.squarespace.com/teach-a-kid-to-argue/

PlanB_pedofile · 2016-04-27T13:13:26+00:00

My old man may have spanked me, it was so rare it's kinda fuzzy. But when he got pissed, he would put the fear into me. That "you gon fucked up" kind of fear.

Badwilly_poe · 2016-04-27T17:12:27+00:00

IMO, this is a crock of shit. Physical punishment is needed for some people, children included. The point of punishment is to hopefully stop a bad action from becoming habit.

"Furthermore, it teaches them that when they are bigger and stronger than you, they can ignore you. My mom, for example, stopped being able to discipline me at age 13, when I stopped letting her hit me."

Mom issues.

ErikTheRedPill · 2016-04-27T17:34:27+00:00

I don't believe spanking is, in itself, breaking frame.

However, never spank your child when you're angry or emotional. Be calm with it. And don't leverage it past a young age. You can't always reason with young children, and pain might be the only way to make them behave. Particularly children prone to acting out.

bornredd · 2016-04-27T17:48:06+00:00

I recommend the 3-5 "Whys" rule.

My kids can ask why 3 levels deep.

If it's something really pertinent, I'll go up to 5. Past that they're just doing it for attention and we're approaching quantum mechanics.

NotUpToAnythingGood · 2016-04-27T18:12:17+00:00

Not every child responds the same way to spanking. Some will be responsive while others will become hellions.

As a parent (four daughters), I had to learn to tailor punishments to fit not only the crime but also the temperament of the child in question.

Blanket statements like yours don't do those of us with children any good.

benuntu · 2016-04-28T00:13:17+00:00

I disagree as a blanket statement, but every parent knows that children are all different. There are some which require zero spanking, and some that will become holy terrors if they don't get that correction early on. Only you, the parent, can determine literally how heavy handed you should be. But if you do determine that spanking is the correct option, please follow these rules:

Never spank in anger. Be calm, maintain frame.
Explain why they are getting a spanking.
Hold them afterwards and explain that you REALLY hate doing that.
Explain again and let them know you'll do it again if they make you.

My rule is that outfight defiance and disobedience, when there is no other option, deserves spanking. It should be communicated to the child beforehand what the consequence for disobedience will be, and you then make it their choice (tough love). I never spank my kids past about 3 years old. Before this age there isn't much you can take away that will convince them to change their behavior. After that age, there are so many things to take away that they love so much. Toys, video games, playing with friends, desert, a favorite stuffed animal. Start with the least wanted thing and keep taking things away until they get the fucking point.

My first son I spanked maybe 3 times. He's a sharp kid and figured out he didn't want any part of that. And when he was older it was easy to find things to take away for punishment. My daughter was a stubborn one, and we had to spank maybe 6-8 times. My youngest son, the same as the first. It really doesn't take much to let them know that there are consequences for bad behavior and to respect their parents.

Dookiestain_LaFlair · 2016-04-28T02:11:47+00:00

Instead of spanking, just make your kid do push-ups and side straddle hops (jumping jacks) and flutter kicks until they pass out or vomit. Be sure to make sure they sip water every 10 minutes. It isn't physical abuse and the exercise will get them in shape.

If you want to scar them psychologically as well, do the push-ups along with them and say things like "why do you make me do this? If you didn't misbehave I wouldn't be doing this? You're hurting me!"

arrayay · 2016-04-28T02:51:22+00:00

I get that some of you may disagree. That's fine. In any case, I know this works for me, and if it helps you, great. If it doesn't, fuck me I guess!

What is this about? Are you proposing that if someone disagrees with you it is an attack on you? Is this an attempt at agreement via guilt?

jmg83 · 2016-04-28T16:16:38+00:00

I agree. In my experience, when you threaten your kids with corporal punishment, it will only work for so long. I stopped being scared of my father at 15/16, and the man did not know what to say to me. He'd just make idle conversation which I didn't have the patience for. You know how when you're a kid, you might be afraid of a movie, but when you re-watch it as an adult, you laugh at how hokey the shitty special effects are? It was like that.

sonicdrumm80 · 2016-05-03T17:48:26+00:00

I disagree, and here is why: I establish rules which very clearly dictate what behavior is acceptable and what isn't. I will not tolerate whining, pitching a fit, lying, a messy room, etc. I offer my son a chance to correct his behavior after the offense. If he chooses to fix the problem I suspend punishment. If he chooses to continue to break one of my clearly established rules I take a deep breath, calm my own emotions and dispense his spanking without breaking my cool. This is my definition of fatherly love, and I treat my girlfriend in a similar manner. The key is to maintain your cool. Someone has to set the standard and enforce it. The punishment is your choice, I do not enjoy spanking my son, however it is necessary in my opinion as that is how I was raised. Not to mention it clearly shows he is directly responsible for the outcome of his actions.

MentORPHEUS · 2016-04-27T00:32:12+00:00

When you spank, you actually break frame, because you lose your cool.

It depends on the situation, and how you define spanking. For kids too young to reason, a firm swat might be the best (not simply most expedient) tool for the issue at hand. I think it has a place within a sound, educated upbringing and discipline program.

So... a firm swat the moment the child is stopped from darting into the street might be a good part of a greater lesson plan.

If the parent loses control, that's a whole different ballgame. I still remember my mom blindly whipping my brother and I with a wire hanger over the seat while driving. Then there's always that red-faced alcoholic you see at any tourist trap, on his knee and in the face of an obviously exhausted 3yo, shouting, "I brought you here TO HAVE FUN!!!"

Like all tools, spanking can cause a lot of damage in the hands of a person who lacks control, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely just because so many unqualified people have kids and overuse it.

bigcitytruth · 2016-04-27T06:27:22+00:00

Spanking isn't breaking frame. Letting a three-year-old control you is breaking frame. A lot of times the non-spanking beta fathers are simply letting their kids get their way. Ever see misbehaving kids running amok in public, not listening to their parents' pleas? I'd bet money their parents are non-spankers.

TheVictor333 · 2016-04-27T02:59:31+00:00

I have to disagree. Spanking should be a result of a child testing your frame and never done in anger.

Proverbs 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

redrummilf · 2016-04-27T05:07:35+00:00

An ass kicking should be doled out when a young boy shows disrespect. My 6 year old at the time was jumping around in the bathroom after a shower. Told him to stop so he won't slip and get hurt. He kept jumping and I gave him a swat to the ass. He turned around and said "that didn't hurt". I took his ass in the bedroom and made it hurt. 10 good smacks on the bare ass. His younger brother was in other room. Kid cried for 10 mins. I've had to threaten the younger one once with this same kind of punishment. Never shown any disrespect again and kids are perfectly behaved 9 years later.

--HankMoody-- · 2016-04-27T05:49:57+00:00

Love your post. I agree with every single word. Spanking is a loss of frame. I have two kids and I have never laid a finger on them. They are extremely well behaved and they perform at the top of their classes. Maybe if a kid has a disorder then spanking may be the only thing that gets through, for me there is no reason to strike a child and it represents a loss of frame that I could not forgive myself for.

I simply reward good behaviour and become stern and lecturing in the face of bad behaviour. I do not tolerate bad behaviour for one second. When my voice becomes slightly louder and my tone becomes serious the world stops for a moment. My children become calm and attentitive, I explain why they should not continue with, or repeat the bad behaviour. They are happy for the lesson, we have a cuddle and they get back to playing (that means physically playing, not just ipads).

Kal-Elder · 2016-04-27T06:59:41+00:00

In a paper titled 'A Child Is Being Beaten,' Sigmund Freud noted that some patients connected feelings of pleasure with expressed fantasies of being beaten and that these fantasies excited considerable shame and guilt. He also observed that being beaten on the bare bottom was a common element in these fantasies and that sometimes the fantasies reflected genuine childhood experience. Inevitably, a spanking on the bare buttocks carries with it penile stemulation, especially if the child is either across the knee or lying down on something. These fantasies illustrate the link between pain and erotic stimulation. See Natalie Shainess, Chapter 11, Sweet Suffering

yomo86 · 2016-04-27T07:19:29+00:00

If anyone lay their hands on my son... strangely enough, women who hit little defensless boys are alright. But don't you dare to hit a woman.

trumpisafaggybeta · 2016-04-27T14:03:43+00:00

I strongly disagree with OP-- this is just part of the new-age cucked parenting culture.

If a kid does something very bad, then you should hold frame yet still be able to spank your kid without a second doubt. My siblings and I were all spanked, hell even worse, we were hit with big metal spoons. Taught us discipline and to not do stupid shit outside that other kids were doing. All of us (except me who is still training) are now doctors, lawyers, and businessmen.

You know what kind of men the parenting style you're talking about produces? Little fat cucks; the products of feminized parenting, basically.

F_Dingo · 2016-04-27T15:53:52+00:00

My dad got whipped with a belt by his father, he turned out fine.

My parents spanked me, I turned out fine.

I was hardly ever spanked when growing up (maybe 1-3 times). Saying parents shouldn't spank their kids is the stupidest shit I've ever heard. Parents have always spanked, slapped, and whipped their children when they've acted way out of line for thousands of years. It's only recently that we have a bunch of loser "psychologists" saying we shouldn't spank children.

But you can side-step this whole entire thing by being a good parent and not some fucking weirdo parent who your kids don't want to hang out with.

J_AsapGem · 2016-04-27T02:47:00+00:00

don't need to read this to know it's bullshit, my father whooped my ass when it needed to be whooped and it turned me into a respectable humble person.

[deleted] · 2016-04-27T01:59:40+00:00

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Entropy-7 · 2016-04-27T04:35:53+00:00

I don't have kids myself but it seems that the parents who are dead set against any form of corporal discipline:

a) have exceptionally well behaved children, b) have a low stress lifestyle with ample time to talk or simply wait and do nothing or, c) DNGAF how their kids behave.

EscapedTheMatrix · 2016-04-27T04:58:55+00:00

Spanking teaches discipline and I will definitely be using it when I parent my children. The key is to be calm, composed, and passionless when doing it. Spanking should be a neutral consequence of bad behavior, not an angry reaction by a parent who can't control their passions.

Spanking carries much more weight in the child's mind if the parent does it apathetically rather than angrily. It's the difference between teaching the lesson, "Don't do that because it's bad" and "Don't let dad see you do that because it pisses dad off"

JamesSkepp · 2016-04-27T07:05:29+00:00

As much as Moleyneux can spam "spanking is bad" there is a simple counterargument - all animals, including apes the not so distant cousins, use physical aggressive (but not damaging) touch as much as velbal cues to communicate. 9/10 cases a dog bite is not a bite to damage but to reassert dog's boundaries.

Nobody here is talking about beating the shit out of the kid, light spank is harmless. And this bs about spanking lowering IQ, maybe if you spank with a baseball bat...

nooooou · 2016-04-27T08:32:24+00:00

When you spank, you actually break frame, because you lose your cool

You have it completely wrong.

Losing your cool is breaking frame.

If you lose your cool and spank your kid, you broke frame not because you spanked them, but because you lost your cool.

It's possible to give a spanking calm. My father never spanked us in the heat of the moment. It was being sent to our rooms. He waited some period of time (this was the hardest part for us). Came in and explained what we did wrong, and that he was going to punish us, and it hurt him more than it was going to hurt us.

Got one spank and that was it.

He maintained frame during this. Maybe earlier he'd have lost his cool but he certainly didn't during the spanking.

People who freak out in public and start wailing on their kids are obviously breaking frame.

BigMan1844 · 2016-04-27T10:22:56+00:00

As a little kid I learned quickly that getting whipped with the belt was preferable to time-out/no dinner. When my balls dropped getting whipped with a belt was still better than losing my cell phone.

midlifedick · 2016-04-27T12:54:35+00:00

If your are spanking out of anger, or when you are not in complete control of your emotions, it's abuse. Obvious break of frame.

Spanking, never hitting, for the right reason at the right time and in the right way is good parenting. Always discuss why before, then settle the matter.

Children and toddlers are not emotionally developed to the point that logic, reasoning, consequences can be understood at the adult level.

For a toddler, a light swat is sometimes enough to to stop and prevent unwanted behavior. Use sparingly.

For children, say 3 to 6 or 7, most times spanking is needed for same reasons as toddlers for unwanted behavior. More importantly they are still emotionally underdeveloped but are starting to feel heavie emotions and can't process guilt. Rarely, I have spanked to help alleviate guilt after doing something they knew was wrong. A quick spank , and the guilt is processed, almost as if transferred to the adult that should be equipped to handle it. Lesson remains, but the punishment has been delivered and there is no longer a heavy emotional burden. (Compare that to grounding a child and repeatedly reminding them of the offense and the punishment... now which method is abuse?)

NeoreactionSafe · 2016-04-27T16:43:50+00:00

Frame means that your emotions are not ruled by "outside the ego" events.

So you break Frame only if your emotions are aggravated.

Masculine love is the application of rewards and punishments to those in your care so if spanking is a punishment that makes sense in a particular instance it is useful.

However, there are tons of punishments that can be imagined.

Johnny wants to do something that he thinks is fun, but misbehaves somehow?

Send Johnny to his room.

In fact it's the invention of good punishments that is important. Try to not get into predictable patterns. The child / woman / puppy must assume at all times that bad behavior will be punished and that the punishment is unpredictable and therefore scary.

RPMan1 · 2016-04-27T07:25:34+00:00

Being logical with kids? Man. You can't even be logical with adults, much less kids.

I have to reject your entire premise. The only thing that humans respond to is pain. Physical pain is the easiest form to apply.

Title	Red pill parenting: Why Spanking is breaking frame
Author	meet_me_at_high_noon
Upvotes	48
Comments	179
Date	April 26, 2016 11:16 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/4gll4f/red_pill_parenting_why_spanking_is_breaking_frame/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/red-pill-parenting-why-spanking-is-breaking-frame.58013 https://theredarchive.com/post/58013

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