Why is this sh*t so hard?

iordanes · 2025-07-04T16:59:23+00:00

Clear your mind. Never think twice. This will elimate your trying. Thinking is you doing it. Start listening to what you feel and follow that. Feeling your way in the dark because your thoughts aren't there. Looking or missing puts you lower. Be greater by not needing it suddenly it needs you

Advanced_Hedgehog427 · 2025-07-04T14:31:40+00:00

You're doing it wrong if you approach it from the 2 ends (too nice or too direct), find somethig in the middle, be flirtly, but don't give yourself away.

Don't pretend to go out with every atractive girl you meet because they can sense when you are a "player" (even if you don't win any game) and they can smell desperation even if you try to hide it with a concrete wall.

Flirt with them, but don't be bothered by it, do it like you don't want anything in return, don't seek for aproval, don't seek for number, just say silly shit with confidence and make them laught and add something spicy here and there, do that with girls around you, cashiers, girls in the gym, in the work, in class etc, you'll start to feel more comfortable with women, they'll be more comfortable and amused around you and girls around will notice that, and then you'll learn when you can make a move with said move actually working.

Only_Ad8049 · 2025-07-04T16:21:06+00:00

Don't seem interested, or just act half interested. Worked for me. If I showed interest first, I usually got rejected.

Another option is to publicly hang out with the hot girls that friend zoned you. That also worked for me.

hunterpua · 2025-07-04T14:35:41+00:00

You said it yourself, you've been a nice guy for most of your life. That's what, 20 years of habits to undo?

It takes time.

Zotoaster · 2025-07-04T14:43:56+00:00

Sometimes both being a nice guy and "self-improvement" come at the cost of authenticity. You should be a good person and you should be the best person you can be, but if you're doing it transactionally then you're not going to get anywhere.

Traditional_Guava639 · 2025-07-04T14:47:01+00:00

Direct only works so often. Sometimes being direct but between the lines is better. Like which sounds better "you wanna get out of here and go back to my place" or "you wanna hook up"? Also nice guys finish last. You have to be nice to get the date but you need to take charge, grab the girl and kiss her. Make moves bro. They want a guy with a plan and takes what he wants. Dont ask just make moves. Move up the bases until she stops you.

fleyeaway · 2025-07-04T18:47:36+00:00

If you are a “nice guy” only when you want to get something out of it, you’re not actually a nice guy and girls may be picking up on a lack of authenticity. Check this by seeing if you are also a “nice guy” when it comes to people you don’t find attractive. Do you change your approach to conversation & how you act when you’re not interested in someone? Might be worth exploring & practicing having conversations without any expectations tied to them. That will take the pressure off you and the other person, while opening the door for genuine conversations.

As for the friendzone, honest answer, this happens when someone is not attracted to you but they don’t want to seem shallow or hurt your feelings. It might not have anything to do with your physical appearance at all, people are just attracted to different things. Think about what vibes you are putting out there - are you confident, stable, emotionally intelligent, wanting commitment? are you flirty, unserious, looking for a hookup? are you insecure, low self esteem, desperate for any type of attention? These vibes are directly influenced by how you view yourself - so continuing self improvement journey is really important! You might initially be direct, or give off confident/casual vibes, but as the relationship progresses maybe there is a switch where you get insecure, overly attached, or come on too strong because you don’t want to “lose” the chance with that person. These inconsistencies can also come off as fake & may be off putting - that’s where you might see a switch up from someone who is initially romantically interested to being put in the friendzone & they can’t explain what changed aside from the vibes.

People are complex, not every girl is attracted to the same things. You might want to change the approach with how/where you’re looking for dates. If you’re using dating apps/going to bars etc with the intent of finding a date & it’s not working, try switching it up. Pick up social hobbies that you’re interested in, without the expectation of dating at all. That consistency and proximity will allow you to meet people with similar interests & build connections where they get to know more about you, not just the surface level stuff that they are missing from the other approach.

HistorianOk2573 · 2025-07-04T15:01:31+00:00

Seems difficult because you put them on a pedestal, you don’t treat them as people but as objects of desire. You overvalue them while undervaluing yourself. You try to please them, to seek their approval, to prove yourself to them, and to impress, hoping to convince them to give you a chance.

And you also probably reject yourself with many girls before they even have a chance to reject you because you also see them as tools of self-affirmation to measure your own worth based on their acceptance or rejection of you.

You might not even know how to behave in dates in a man to woman way. You may probably do the following:

You never try to go for a kiss on first dates or sometimes not even on second dates, and try as hard as possible to make sure that you never make the girl feel uncomfortable or anything by avoiding ant type of sexual advancement or any compliment that could be perceived as coming on too strong out of fear the girl might find you creepy or perverted.

So instead always make sure you are super respectful never do anything that could be even remotely sexual to show you are not there for sex and basically stick to talking about things like hobbies, what you guys are looking for in a relationship and work/studies.

The phrase: "You always make sure you are super respectful never do anything that could be even remotely sexual" That phrase means that your respect for women is so extreme and over the top that you hide your desire.

That has nothing to do with kindness. That's just you acting like showing interest (specially sexual interest) is a taboo and disrespectful and that women are too fragile to handle any indication of sexual interests, hence you respect their "fragility" by hiding that you have a dick (metaphorically speaking) and hiding that you find them hot.

This results in you acting like a gay best friend or brother because the girl never gets a sense that you are into her, she only gets the sense that you are like a gay best friend or her big brother; only focused on helping her and listening to her and supporting her with no intention of wanting anything beyond that (aka romance/sex/kissing/girlfriend).

MineDesperate2920 · 2025-07-05T16:04:27+00:00

Focus more on your vibe than the logical things. It’s what matters. And your perceived status

ThatDarnSmell · 2025-07-04T15:34:15+00:00

You might do better with social/inner circle. Find a friend of a friend or join shared interest meetup groups. The woman I'm talking to now knows multiple people I know and that alone was an easy transition into going on dates.

Dangerous_Item_6879 · 2025-07-04T16:57:30+00:00

How old are you and where are you generally located? Where are you trying to meet women?

I find the answer is sometimes age and location dependent. But yes the general principles still apply.

Sometimes it’s a pure numbers game.

Advice can sometimes be different for a 20 year old compared to a 35 year old.

srwat · 2025-07-04T17:35:36+00:00

Don't go at it like it's a life/death scenario or that will come off as anxiety/desperation. Once you feel that, the girl you could have a potential vibe with will as well, and that will be the death knell to that situation.

Be relaxed, focus on her, and remember no matter how it goes, your plans for your day matter just as much as hers. If you are presenting yourself in the hopes and prayers of being selected rather than being something mysteriously aesthetically pleasing that invites curiosity, you're doing it wrong.

Get used to small talking with everyone. If you're getting friendzoned by everyone, you're giving away too much about yourself squashing all the mystery and resolving any tension you may naturally possess.

You want her to have loose ends about you that she can fill in with her imagination. If you fill in all the blanks, it's like if someone summarizes a mystery book for you without you getting to experience any of the twists and turns beforehand. At that point, why would you even care about reading the book?

bbull412 · 2025-07-05T01:54:13+00:00

Bro tinder have fuck womens brain giving them way too much choice now the nice guy like us are getting play out. I honestly just stop looking for women i d’ont even bother.

Key-Aioli-3703 · 2025-07-05T04:28:01+00:00

If I can smell desperation in your writing, just imagine what girls could smell in person...

CoachSlyDating · 2025-07-05T17:12:17+00:00

Direct has one advantage in that it makes the interaction man to women right away. Some girls really like that. But it does lead to some harsh and quick rejections. It’s important to practice direct openers as part of your learning process.

You probably need to tone it back and try more situational openers. Ask about the coffee or books at the book store. Inject some flirty push pulls that keep them guessing. Then lead the interaction to an instant date or number close.

ratfooshi · 2025-07-06T00:18:28+00:00

Directness isn't the name of the game in seduction.

Mystery is. Mystery gives them space to interpret, fantasize, project. All the necessary ingredients for attraction.

You don't have to stop being the "nice guy". In fact, it'l really help you out here. There are moments when you aren't always nice, whether that's setting boundaries, someone catches you no filter, etc.

From time to time, step into these less pleasing parts of your character and see the effect it has on people who thought they had a grip on you, but now can't stop trying to figure you out. Killshot.

Jironasaurus · 2025-07-04T14:35:04+00:00

You did everything except learn how to talk to women.

ctgryn · 2025-07-04T15:40:51+00:00

I mean, the first question is are you really as nice as you think you are? If the answer is yes, then it’s probably something to do with your desperation and frustration, which is detectable and extremely off-putting to women.

I’d probably recommend taking a step back for a while, chilling out, grounding yourself, and trying again without any hard objectives or motives (ex. I want to find a girlfriend by this year). Just tell yourself you’re just gonna talk to women and see how it goes. Lower the intensity. You’ll be fine.

IcyYouth78 · 2025-07-04T14:24:20+00:00

how many girls are you approaching?

I know coaches want you to believe they can get any girl they want, but I think it's actually a HUGE numbers game. Even for coaches (i mean, on youtube you can see these coaches still get rejected a lot despite their knowledge)

The answer might be too massively increase the volume. Maybe it's just about 'getting lucky' as they say (approaching a girl who is into you)

Certain_Process_7657 · 2025-07-04T16:54:21+00:00

Given that you've been a nice guy for most of your life, it's probably because you're not direct and assertive enough when you're approaching. In general I don't waste more than 2 min on the approach if I can't sense she's physically attracted to me. Just walk away before forcing a friendly conversation.

Physical_College_551 · 2025-07-04T17:58:41+00:00

Honestly, bro even if you learn stuff from here, it’s can get you further than before but once you did all that you start to realize all this is pointless and people are telling you to change to be what they want..and it sucks because that’s like maybe 70% of women who want this 10% man that most can’t even meant.

I was listening to a story my brother told me about how his coworker was a Womanizer back in the day and how he was paying for sex and the women he eaas paying for didn't understand why he was playing and that he could sell six because I guess he looks really good and in shape and that shit hit me in my stomach and feelings. I guess cause I know that will never happen to me and no matter how much I try to improve in some way… I still don't get nothing kike that…

I started to slowly start hating myself and life and the general.

But maybe some guys can get that by being in the subreddit but I really don't care how much improvement you do most guys won't be that guy who was born with it or maybe took time out to achieve it.

basafo · 2025-07-04T18:44:44+00:00

"Been doing the self-improvement journey for the last few years: upped my style, appearance, health, and lifestyle".

I would say 99% sure here is the problem. You should explain yourself with more detail. You are saying it and we just have to "believe it". Probably doing not enough or not well.

I'm not criticizing you, it's the opposite, you're doing great posting here. It's just you need to go more in deep when you explain yourself, the number of aspects can be a good quantity.

I add: in case you haven't done it, I can tell you most "problems" here are solved by going to therapy, talking about this and other topics of your life, and becoming a better version of yourself and with a quite better mindset.

Have you also investigated enough about related literature, podcasts, other sources? Usually the work you can do by yourself is enough. Most people who don't success, complaint before taking real and enough responsability.

Tensti · 2025-07-04T18:45:59+00:00

to find a love of your life is just a straight big LUCK nothing else

xclaner · 2025-07-04T18:55:22+00:00

You probably haven’t improved your appearance enough - I didn’t get results until I locked in and went all out

I_Be_Strokin_it · 2025-07-04T19:49:45+00:00

You can pump your iron and shine your shoes And wear your hair just right You go down out on cruisin' street 'Cause you want to score tonight We all want to strut our stuff And you really want to show your scars Forget all about that macho shit And learn how to play guitar

protofutura · 2025-07-04T21:05:27+00:00

Can you explain more about how you actually approach? You say direct, but what exactly do you say? How do you feel when you approach? Do you look nervous or timid when you ask them out? How close are you when you approach them? Do you ask for their permission or are you self assured?

There's a lot of questions and a lot going on beyond just asking them out. If you're just getting rejected off the bat then it's likely your overall behavior comes across as timid or weak.

Opposite0_0Banana · 2025-07-05T00:13:31+00:00

firstly you gotta have fun with it, it isnt something you get bothered by, secondly, like the top comment said, dont be direct, it shows too much interest, you have to find a way to go in smoothly without showing much intrest

Matter_Still · 2025-07-05T03:14:53+00:00

Are you aware that almost 70% of all intimate relationships begin as "friendships"? Probably not.

There is one glaring omission in the list of things you said you improved: you don't mention improving your conversational skills.

Here's a thought experiment: if you were sitting in the United Club in LA (or anywhere) and you saw a woman you recognized as Laura Chen (the SI swimsuit model who you fantasized about) reading a book you were thinking about buying, would you approach her--and could you do so just as you might the gate ancient, totally relexed, business as usual. If the answer is "No", there;s your answer, if it's "Yes" and you still can't connect in your day-t0-day life with "lesser" women, there's another problem.

Silver_Standard_3693 · 2025-07-05T06:17:00+00:00

They hate insecurity. Being an open book and low self esteem. Or a guy who hesitates doesn’t take what he wants or looks for validation in women.

You need to literally not give a shit if you lose them at all and not be afraid to say what you want. Try to have fun with the challenge of getting them and making it all feel normal. Sex should be normal to you because it’s very very normal to them.

Hot_Lead_7335 · 2025-07-10T07:25:28+00:00

Just go on hinge and go on a few dates

RadiantTry9442 · 2025-07-04T15:22:06+00:00

The component you’re missing from this self development journey is the one within.

1) Two approaches: Find the very first moment you noticed this behavior. figure out moments where you’ve also noticed this behavior. And start to let go of the emotional charges that come with those memories.

2) Identify the fears under when you feel yourself acting as a “nice guy.” Whats forcing you into that frame? What are you so afraid of?

(To achieve trye change, you’ll likely have to do both of these. but don’t overwhelm yourself. You’re badass as is. its about remembering that badassery before you picked up that “nice guy” identity.

sophist16 · 2025-07-04T18:57:43+00:00

Get a hobby…strictly for the sake of your own interest. Not for “self-improvement.” Dedicate yourself to the hobby. Have fun with it. Enjoy the journey. Through that journey you’ll meet people. You’ll meet women. And they’ll be so into you because you’re so into your hobby (they’ll see it as you’re a focused guy that’s dedicated to his work, and has fun…the perfect combo)…and then one leads to another. You’re targeting is that much better. You don’t want gen pop. You want targeted, similar interest women to reveal themselves to you. That’s how ya do it. Forget about em and focus on yourself.

SiccThought · 2025-07-04T14:38:05+00:00

Its only hard if u make it .. the key is to use your instincts by paying attention to the signs, signals and hints.

AcedtheTuringTest · 2025-07-04T16:45:37+00:00

Don't be a 'nice' guy, be a good guy.

That being said, solid upstanding guys aren't popular or desired, despite what is verbally proclaimed.

Basically, you don't stand a chance nowadays if you aren't the top tier .01% of men and if you were, you wouldn't be here.

Time to find a distracting hobby.

ArmitageShanks69 · 2025-07-04T16:52:05+00:00

Not everyone is capable. It's just a fact of life that there are some people in this world, both men and women, that can't attract the opposite sex no matter what they do. All you can do is just keep working on yourself for you in order to be content to the degree that if you can't get a date it doesn't matter so much. If you develop true indifference you'll still feel content whether you meet someone or not.

ImpossibleBritches · 2025-07-04T20:46:02+00:00

Skill issue.

And/or character issue. (Success in dating is a function of character)

Also, there's no contradiction between being nice and being direct. You can be both.

therealslimshady1234 · 2025-07-04T14:27:03+00:00

Instead of being nice, why don't you say what you want? Then, if they say no, you can get a little angry, or just leave and never talk to them again instead of trying to sugar coat it. Stop hiding your real self, it will just make you look creepy. Stop wasting time with girls who aren't interested. Don't even give them a single like. You should treat this the same way you do job interviews. Rejection? On to the next? No sex after 2-3 dates? On to the next. She wants you to pay for everything ? On to the next. You get the point? It's nothing personal in the first stages.

Pedro_Moona · 2025-07-04T15:28:52+00:00

Start with 3s and 4s and work your way up.

IdeaLonely · 2025-07-04T15:34:31+00:00

have you tried retardmaxxing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbOFg2pMz74&list=PLy9B_dKctHZkHFY9nj8tuCIXRCQzv_fpV&index=1

bafun13 · 2025-07-04T15:45:08+00:00

For some of us it isn't hard mate, maybe change your perception and approach to intimacy

hamdiramzi · 2025-07-04T15:59:46+00:00

Bro you can't even get a date.. that's too sad

Title	Why is this sh*t so hard?
Author	No_Opportunity_5783
Upvotes	158
Comments	62
Date	July 4, 2025 2:21 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1lrjxxl/why_is_this_sht_so_hard/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/why-is-this-sht-so-hard.1556320 https://theredarchive.com/post/1556320

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