If Feminists/Blue Pillers STOPPED claiming Nice guys are actually manipulative assholes entitled to sex, maybe less people would turn to The Red Pill

RareBlur · 2015-12-17T18:38:10+00:00

The typical "nice guy" stops being nice when rejected. Therefore, he was never a "nice guy" to begin with, that is how the behavior is seen.

Reality is, he likely is a nice guy but rejection makes him defensive. Hurts his ego too much.

Whisper · 2015-12-18T10:11:41+00:00

Feminists operate like American foreign policy.

Declare everyone evil, carpet bomb everything, but instead of finishing the job, break down halfway through, sobbing "why don't you love me?" at the people whose homes you just destroyed.

GridReXX · 2015-12-16T23:28:32+00:00

What if they simply didn't have sex with you?

I thought lack of sexual interest from women was why men turned to TRP? Not shaming.

wub1234 · 2015-12-16T23:30:46+00:00

Maybe if TBP/feminists would stop shaming ACTUAL nice guys, instead of hamstering them as "manipulative assholes", TRP wouldn't be so successful in drawing in the many men who have heard this bullshit?

I've already explained this today once, but I'll explain it again.

Women do not shame nice guys. Women like nice guys. They're just necessarily sexually attracted to them, just like they're not sexually attracted to most men. Because they're very selective.

You will see women assume that someone who is actually nice is not nice because some women can't understand that someone who is nice and decent could be unsuccessful because it doesn't apply to women.

I have never once seen a woman actively slag off someone who is nice once they understand that he is nice. Doesn't mean that he gets to sleep with them, but that applies to everyone.

midnightvulpine · 2015-12-16T23:59:09+00:00

I don't deride those who are nice without expectation. I do deride those who are nice with expectation. The problem is, those who do have expectations make people wary of those who don't. The usual bad apples that spoil the bunch. It's not fair, I suppose, but past experiences inform future opinions. I mean, isn't that a core aspect of TRP? It should be something that can be understood quite well. It's the other side of the coin.

wazzup987 · 2015-12-17T07:17:26+00:00

OH FFS

http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/01/untitled/

http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-romanceless/

Listen the thing is both side have a point.

Unrequited love sucks it really really does. and it would really nice if feminist/women/BP would be a little bit easier on guys given that guys still have to do the majority of the asking. And oh by the way a lot of the nice guys you bitch about really do want relationships. if they didnt want a relationship or value a woman above sex they would have just done some vastly more efficient way to get laid. and yes part of a relationship involves sex. no one get into a relationship with the idea the welp i guess i wont need these any more and proceeds to geld the selves or sew up their snatch.

On the flip side there really are manipulative assholes out there that know how to run nice guy game and act like they want relationship when they don't.

Also a lot guys affected with nice guy syndrome are young. the constant fawning over a chick will go away when you have real life bull shit to deal with. also a lot the guys affected with nice guy syndrome need to learn how to be happy single and not be codependents in relationships.

wuboo · 2015-12-17T20:46:34+00:00

'Nice' guys ruined it for nice guys.

EmpressofMars · 2015-12-18T00:53:01+00:00

In my view there's a difference between actual nice guys and "nice guys."

The actual nice guy is exactly what you described, trying to be a kind, good human and friend with little to no expectation. The only expectation (if any, some are just Good Samaritans and expect nothing) these guys have is kindness in return, and help in return (IMPORTANT NOTE: THIS KINDNESS OR HELP EXPECTED IS NOT SEXUAL). This is perfectly reasonable, everyone deserves to be treated with kindness and respect. Now, this man may pine for sex, especially if he's single, which is perfectly natural considering sex drive exists in 99% of the population. But these men do not get upset when their female friends and associates are not interested that way and reject them sexually. They may be hurt, which is again reasonable, but they don't hold a grudge or turn it into a vendetta.

Then there are the "nice guys." They think that by worshipping their female friends or constantly being there for them they will "see them for who they are" and want to be with them romantically or sexually. Unfortunately for them, most of the time all the kindness in the world will not be a substitute for attraction nor lead to a relationship. Their endgame for their female friends is sex, and sex alone. They've thrown themselves into the delusion that their female friends will want to fuck them, they feel betrayed when rejected, even though their female friends do not by any means owe them any sort of sexual payment. They'll often go on about "all they've done" for their female friends" and "how nice they are" and how they're not like the "douchebags and assholes" she's interested in (note: oftentimes the men the woman is interested in are not actually douchebags or assholes, the "nice guy" simply views them that way because they capture her attention instead of him). In this way they indeed view their female friends as vending machines waiting to pop out sex for them, because they actually feel as though they deserve sex just for being a decent human. It's absurd, I know, but that's often what these men think.

The easiest way to differentiate the actual nice guys from the "nice guys" is from their reaction to rejection. Actual nice guys may be hurt or disappointed, which is natural and to be expected, but will not hold it against the woman. "Nice guys" on the other hand will become furious as they always viewed sex as the endgame, and will make the woman feel absolutely terrible about her decision in an attempt to shame her into sex. They will do their damnedest to "win her" by scaring off potential love interests, being obsessive, constantly coming on to her, and refusing to leave her alone.

So yeah, when we refer to "nice guys" as assholes, we mean the ones who see women as sexual objects and the means to a sexual end instead of as multifaceted people.

oryxic · 2015-12-17T01:30:09+00:00

I think there's a huge difference in nice guys and Nice Guys™. Regular nice guys are just nice people. I got no problem with that, sometimes they're cool and we're compatible, sometimes they're not. C'est la vie.

However, Nice Guys™ are a completely different breed. These are the kinds of guys that will do things for you, unrequested (and often not wanted), and then be upset or enraged that you aren't falling over yourself to thank them for it.

One of the worst Nice Guys in our group used to complain bitterly that he'd buy things for one of the girls in our group, but she wouldn't date him and was leading him on. I witnessed her on more than one occasion tell him outright not to do it and he persisted even to the extent of taking her check out of her hand or butting into line to do it. These were group events, not one-on-one functions, btw. But she led him on. He was constantly doing this to new girls that came to hang out and completely baffled why this was offputting and inappropriate.

If you offer and I tell you no and you're cool, you're a nice guy. If you offer, I tell you no, you do it anyway, and then get salty because I don't want to be your girlfriend, you're a problem.

Archwinger · 2015-12-17T03:43:37+00:00

You're focusing on the wrong shit. Here's the four possibilities:

1- I was nice to her and she fucked me.

2- I was not nice to her and she fucked me.

3- I was nice to her and she didn't fuck me.

4- I was not nice to her and she didn't fuck me.

1 is what you've always wanted. But you'd take 2, too.

3 is what always happens to you, but 4 annoys you, too.

Your problem isn't with whether you're nice or not. It's with whether you're fucked or not.

dota2nub · 2015-12-17T07:27:44+00:00

Sex was something I wanted, something I'd have been happy and deserving of for being a good human being

... you don't see it?

[deleted] · 2015-12-17T21:14:38+00:00

Contrary to feminist minded propaganda, we never believed that women were "vending machines to put nice coins in until sex falls out".

I'll believe that when the upvoted articles and comments on TRP stop saying that

ludba2002 · 2015-12-17T00:29:16+00:00

You're responsible for your own actions. Even assuming that feminists are wrong (and I do), you don't get to use your victimhood at the hands of feminists as a justification for claiming all women are manipulative, money-grubbing child-whores.

"Sex was something I wanted, something I'd have been happy and deserving of for being a good human being"

No. No. A thousand times no. You are not deserving of sex for being a good human being. You don't deserve sex. No one does. Not assholes, not good human beings. Sex is a mutual agreement based on biological attraction and social familiarity. If you want to fuck someone and they don't want to fuck you, that has nothing to do with your or their character. Find someone who does want to fuck you. Don't create an entire evil philosophy to shelter your fragile ego while blaming feminists for the world's ills.

ExpendableOne · 2015-12-17T00:39:51+00:00

I never for a second believed the idea that a "nice guy" is being nice just because he wants sex.

But even if that was the case, they seem to really put a lot of emphasis on the "wanting to have sex" part, as if that's the major crime the "nice guy" is guilty of.

Call out the FBI! Alert the Pentagon! There's a "nice guy" who actually wants to have SEX with a WOMAN! Civil Defense alert! Call NASA! This is a world-wide emergency!

[deleted] · Wed Dec 16 23:46:32 2015 UTC

[permanently deleted]

bromance946 · 2015-12-16T23:42:42+00:00

Whoever came up with this "Nice Guy" thing is seriously underappreciated. I can think of no concept I've ever known where such a high percentage of attempts to escape or critique the concept simply end up reencapsulating the concept. It's like recursive mirrors.

Scott Alexander, the king of effortposts, reencapsulated it when he tried to tackle it, ending up arguing in effect, "If you had given us sex when I was really nice, we wouldn't have had to turn the manosphere." The OP reencapsulates it. Only Arthur Chu really got it.

But that's okay. The Nice Guy keeps getting reencapsulated because it's as much an emotion as a logical fallacy.

The thing to understand about the Nice Guy, logically, is that there's no "there, there". There is no essence behind the mask, no prototype of person that can be described as a Nice Guy or a nice guy apart from what he is not. Take out the negative associations of the Nice Guy and you are left with literally nothing. The entire concept exists solely in opposition- to the "asshole" or "jerk".

Cyralea · 2015-12-17T01:13:04+00:00

No one who has ever referred to themselves as a "Nice Guy" has ever been an actual nice guy.

[deleted] · 2015-12-17T01:55:41+00:00

What other choice did we have?

Not keep blaming everyone else for your own personal failings?

TheSandbergPrinciple · 2015-12-17T00:56:10+00:00

Being nice and considerate is incredibly attractive. Anyone who says otherwise clearly doesn't have much experience with dating.

LUClEN · 2015-12-17T01:46:16+00:00

I don't think that really matters. Some of the dudes i know that do the best in dating believe things similar to TRP but have never even heard of it. The apparent success that line of thinking seems to produce will be enticement alone, even if other strategies aren't demonized

djchazradio · 2015-12-17T15:25:50+00:00

Sex was something I wanted, something I'd have been happy and deserving of for being a good human being.

Sex is not something that you earn. It is something you have to work for.

[deleted] · 2015-12-17T00:27:31+00:00

don't defend yourself mate.

I feel no empathy for the nice guys over here who complain.

You've tried something. It failed. I'm not even saying take the red pill or whatever. Try something else. Then try something else.

Ask out 10 chicks a month. See what works what doesn't. It's what my cousin did. It's what I'd do if someone close to me really needed help. Don't even have to recommend trp.

"Nice guys" just want to continue being nice without conducting a trial and error based experiment and then complain they can't get laid.

If I'm being completely honest here, and I say this as Red Piller myself, if people (myself included before trp) were willing to experiment and try different things until they find success instead of sitting on their ass and worshipping women, then trp would not even be needed.

This is why I can't have empathy for the nice guys who post on PPD, or the manosphere. They know what MIGHT work (in their heads). But because of some morality thing they aren't willing to even gravitate slightly from their supplicative (yes I know that's not a word) attitudes and at the end of the day that's entirely on them. :/

Xemnas81 · 2015-12-17T15:20:36+00:00

we never believed that women were "vending machines to put nice coins in until sex falls out".

They don't believe they're entitled to sex. They're out there busting their asses trying to earn sex

That sure as hell sounds a lot like getting enough coins to 'earn' sex.

andrewisgood · 2015-12-17T03:30:32+00:00

It's tough. I was that nice guy, and one time I got into this big Facebook argument about nice guys, because I was a nice guy and was unlucky in love. And she knew that, but the point still stood that there were manipulative assholes parading around as nice guys. So, I'm not sure how many feminists do it, but yeah, maybe some should be like, hey, you probably aren't an asshole.

But, on the other hand, it's important that some "nice guys" understand that maybe, just maybe, they are actually misogynistic assholes or what they could be doing is wrong, depending on how they present themselves towards women, or act towards them, etc. So it takes reflection from both parties.

apumpkinpi · 2015-12-17T08:06:00+00:00

They're real. Uncommon, but definitely real. It's not surprising that men don't see them much, since men will not tend to be on the receiving end of any distinguishable behaviors. Other guys would probably see a dude with a tendency to be a bit self-serving than other people, or just a straight up narcissist. The Nice Guy is just one face of a narcissist that tells others, and himself, that he's really nice.

Title	If Feminists/Blue Pillers STOPPED claiming Nice guys are actually manipulative assholes entitled to sex, maybe less people would turn to The Red Pill
Author	AmericanHistoryAFBB
Upvotes	53
Comments	232
Date	December 16, 2015 11:25 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3x5607/if_feministsblue_pillers_stopped_claiming_nice/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-feministsblue-pillers-stopped-claiming-nice.277797 https://theredarchive.com/post/277797

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