Circumcised men are 4.5 times more likely to suffer from erectile dysfunction.

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I had mine done due to phimosis, and honestly, it's fantastic. Much easier to keep clean, easier (and funner) to piss, the sex is exponentially greater than I ever had pre-op, and imho, it looks a lot more aesthetically pleasing.

I did notice a drop in sensitivity, but the loss isn't like having a numb penis, which some people seem to report. Maybe I was overly sensistive before, but the level of sensations I'm getting now is perfect from what it was. I could see how for some unlucky guys, the sensitivity loss might end up being too much, and for them, I sympathize, but circumcision done right can certainly be an upgrade.

As for infant circumcision, I think people really need to take into consideration genetics. All through my family history (at least as far as my grandfather and his siblings), our infants have had recurring issues with phimosis and urinary infections. It's terribly horrible for the child and watching my baby brother (now 12) go through it, coupled with my own circumstances has led me to making the decision to circumcise my own son (should I have one someday).

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]CrackCC_Lurking 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol... for a second I thought you were an idiot. It's only when I got to the last paragraph (& went back & saw the /s), I breathed a sigh of relief :)

Yeah, it's like everything I guess. People will always lie & try to convince you to do their thing. And if ever that doesn't work, they'll just do what they can with the people who don't know any better or can't help themselves, e.x: Kids, people in a fragile state (depression etc..), or people who are poorly educated, or not educated at all (like people in 3rd world countries)... Lol that's like how 99.9999% of religion is spread. Children, adults who have hit rock bottom/depressed/diseased/who almost died, & people in 3rd world countries via "missionaries".

Anyways. I think that the whole circumcision thing is bigger in the states than in Europe. Like just by judging from what I see in American movies/tv-shows/series etc.., vs European ones, I've noticed that Americans talk A LOT about circumcision (often how it's good & awesome.. & the guys girlfriend is "shocked" he isn't circumcised).

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Someone replied to me lower down (or higher up, I don't know):

According to the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Canadian Pediatric Society, 50% of boys have retractable at age 1, 90% by age 3, and 99% by age 17. So in adults, phimosis is quite rare, at about 1% or less.

So yeah, 90% get circumcised before the age of 3, then I guess 9% get circumcised between 3 & 17, with only (less than) 1% getting circumcised at 17+.

I was going to say that getting circumcised as an adult is worse than the 5 year old you mentioned, but I think 5 years old (4-7 years old) is probably the worse. Because any older & you can protest (not to mention when you're an adult, you can do what you want), & younger than that, you won't remember it at all. But 5 years old is the sweet spot. Where you can't really protest & you'll still remember & possibly be traumatized your whole life. Poor kid. :( People do fucked up things for ridiculous reasons, religion being one of them, albeit the most widespread "ridiculous reason". (I got to use albeit :P)

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[–]elucubra 8 points9 points10 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I hate to tell you this, but it seems that the data applies to populations in developing countries or areas, where sanitary measures may be below par;

Perhaps the most powerful evidence in favour of circumcision comes from randomized controlled trials in South Africa, Kenya and Uganda.

Also:

Gert van Dijk, an ethicist at the Royal Dutch Medical Association in Utrecht, the Netherlands, thinks that the AAP has underestimated the potential harm of circumcision. He says that it should only be performed when men are old enough to give consent, and disagrees with the AAP that circumcisions are simplest and safest when performed on infants. The very idea of asking whether circumcisions are beneficial is strange to Europeans, van Dijk says. “The integrity of the body is an important thing. We would never amputate a healthy part of a child.” (emphasis mine).

Most males in Europe are not circumcised, except for religious reasons (god knows what faith has to do with mutilating a sexual organ!), and corrective surgeries.

Also, prevalence of HIV and STDs in Europe seems to be lower overall

So, I would have to call bullshit.

[–]Riesea 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]actanonverba8 -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's an appeal to authority there. But, in fairness, I don't think there's anything wrong with you saying "doctors say" but I want you to know my brain doesn't turn off when you say that.

For one thing, you have to understand the politics behind male circumcision. SOME doctors, activists say it is good for women in that it lowers their disease risk. So, for people like feminists, that's kind of all they need to know. If hurting men is "good for women", so be it. Also, there are religious politics with Jews and Muslims. There is also a lot of crossover. Jewish women are very over-represented (compared to the overall Jewish population) as noteworthy persons in feminism (off the very tippy top of my head.....Dorkin, Alred, Friedan, Wolf, Adler, Faludi, Brownmiller, Ginsburg, Ensler, Steinhem, Jong. Jewish folks are also very over-represented (compared to their population) in the field of medicine. I'm not saying this to knock anyone, just to be realistic about the interests and politics involved.

Personally, I'm against circumcision, first and foremost, on the grounds of morality and free will (infants don't get to choose). Also, I find the notion of routinely cutting off parts of normal, intact infants' bodies in some hope of lowering the risk of some future something or another kind of bizarre. To give an extreme example (and I acknowledge the example is extreme but use it to make a point), if we cut off little girls' breasts tissue virtually all breast cancer would cease. Of course that's absurd and terrible to think of doing. That's the point.

Finally, as far as the science goes. I have read a lot of refutations of the studies and data used to promote circumcision Unfortunately, I didn't save everything.

Here is some anti-circumcision information:

http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV.html

http://intactamerica.org/

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The following statements are coming from the would-be scientest in me, not the MRA side.

This is shit science. The reason 300 people is FAR to small a sample size, is because when dealing with survey based research you need a huge sample. "30 - 50" sized experiment groups have to do with carefully selected experiments, not surveys.

I also have a problem with the selection method. This was a survey of men that came in to talk about potential problems with erections. Men with uncircumcised penises may be embarrassed to come to urologists because of societal normality.

Another potential problem with the data is that circumcisions were a given at a certain point in our history, and have been losing (albeit very little) popularity through movements like ours. Even my wife's very feminist mother didn't circumcise her son. That would mean that older men are more likely (again albeit it a slow margin) to be circumcised.

There may very well be a link between circumcision and ED, but no respected scientist would publish this as a true result.

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This appears to have been nothing more than an ex post-facto cross-sectional survey.

That's true. Nobody has randomly decided which little boys to circumcise and then followed their sexual performance over a lifetime.

300 is certainly a small sample size in this case

How many would individuals would you regard as necessary for a non-"small" sample? Why do you think this number is appropriate?

at best you could say "Circumcisions are associated with ED"

Well, the linked article stated:

Researchers surveyed 300 men and found that circumcised fellas had a 4.5 times greater chance of suffering from ED than noncircumcised guys.

I suppose that could be interpreted as suggesting that circumcision caused the ED. But it could equally be interpreted as a statement as to association, which is how I interpreted it.

Certainly the comments following "One reason [...]" are pure speculation, but I honestly don't think that they're being put forward as much more than that. It's a plausible hypothesis.

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Don't let it get you down (haha)--I am mutilated too, but there's no point in crying over lost foreskins. Worrying about it is the biggest problem. Do the best you can with what you have, that's the only option. Here are some key tips:

Don't get addicted to over-masturbation. Try to keep it down to a few times a week or less, vary the sensation and stimulation you use.
During sexual activity, focus on your partner, not your erection.
Make sure you are well-hydrated when it comes time to have sex. This is really important but rarely mentioned. If you are dehydrated, your blood gets thick and flows slowly--this is BAD for erections.
Stay fit and active, exercise smart and often, which will better your life in countless ways beyond sexual function.
Don't smoke weed. It is anti-androgenic (suppresses testosterone), and being stoned can make your mind race and distract you from the matter at hand. I say this as someone who loved weed, but I gave it up for this and other reasons.

All of this is great advice whether you are mutilated or not, but if you take good care of yourself in these ways, you can definitely add enough points in the "Good sexual function" column to offset the negative of being mutilated. You can still have fantastic sex and a world-class erection, but that doesn't make MGM okay.

[–]soundsofsilver 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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http://www.reproduction-online.org/content/62/2/513.full.pdf

This is a fairly old study which cites a lot of the previous evidence (might be behind a restriction wall since academia is kind of nasty that way, but you should be able to find some good research on google). In the short term you might experience heightened sensation due to the effects of the drug, and if you smoke with moderation and don't experience any ill effects, that's awesome, good for you. Weed is a lot of fun. I had very similar feelings when I was younger, masturbating stoned was a blast.

Drugs effect everyone differently, particularly with respect to higher brain function like sensation, arousal, and such. Personally, I was a very heavy smoker, so your mileage may vary, but all available evidence suggests that long-term use is not good for the male reproductive system, particularly as you age and your testosterone levels start to decline naturally.

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Edit: This subreddit's dogmatism sucks. I gave you a good criticism of the article, you guys only want pitchforks. See ya later.

First of all, I'd be willing to bet one of the main causes of erectile dysfunction is mental. So don't read this blurb and assume it means you will have ED, because then you'll create a negative feedback loop.

Second, without seeing the survey, samples, etc... it is hard to judge just how solid a link it is between circumcision and ED. The study was about alexthysmia or something unrelated to ED/circ.

Third, I don't think these guys are pushing a totally unbiased agenda on the matter.

Fourth, the article never says circ = ED from lack of sensation. It spectulates there might be a connection, but the science doesn't say that.

My personal opinion? You can get erections without have to even touch it, which suggests that it is more about the mind and heart health to do the blood pumping.

So, quick yanking it so often, have some faith, and get some exercise.

Note, I am still anti-circ.

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[–]kanuk876 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

99.9% of pro-genital-mutilation science is junk science. Bad science.

Anyone can conduct a shitty research project.

It takes a hell of a lot of good science to justify something as radical as amputating the healthy sexual tissue from non-consenting minors. Even many of doctors who perform circumcisions will admit it's done primarily for aesthetic reasons. IE: "because mom and dad thinks it looks better surgically altered".

I'm not against anyone deciding circumcision for themselves at age 18. Before then, it should be illegal. The same as it is for girls. Healthy neonatal genitals = no-amputation-zone. You see, unlike most people, I'm not sexist on this issue. I believe everyone, regardless of gender, has the right to their own body. Trust starts with respect.

Why do I use strong words? Because I have to bust through people's denial, misinformation, and cultural bias to try to entice them to engage their rational thinking and basic human compassion.

Take yourself. You have a lot invested in not losing anything to circumcision. That doesn't give you the right to downplay the harm done nor to do it to anyone else.

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Uncircumcised dude here. I love my foreskin, and keeping it clean has never been an issue for me. I have a good sex life and I can honestly say that being uncircumcised has not hindered me at all in daily life.

I kind of think of my foreskin as being similar to my earlobes. Neither are necessary to one's health or ability to function everyday, really, but they're certainly nice. To consider circumcision as a way of preventing pain during sex is kinda like considering amputating one's earlobes in order to prevent them getting hooked while out on fishing trips. If you're mindful of it during sex, you will not experience any pain at all. I certainly never have. I've also never gotten hooked in the earlobe when fishing! ;)

Your decision about your son though, man. I'm sure you love him and want the best for him, and if that means circumcision, then awesome, all the power to you. I'm sure he'll have an awesome life either way. Just thought I'd give you some pro-foreskin love!

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@johnetec,

I am uncut, never had and issue, never hurts during sex, never had "clean issues" and never had a girl be turned off by it;

In fact, in my recent round of "single" most woman claimed they preferred un-cut; (one girl was genuinely excited to see a foreskin), and one girl told me that though she like the look of a circ'd penis better she really didn't care.

My now wife (She is a Nurse) and I have gone over the topic quite a bit. She claims that from a female side of things, the sex is better with a foreskin (she gave some very graphic descriptions I will not put here), and that most women really do not care because "All penis are ugly when soft anyway". She also told me that she is dead set against the procedure, and told me that many nurses (To include herself) Flat refuse to take part in it as it is really against their code of ethics. She said that if parents were in the same room as their new baby and could hear the absolute shrieks of pain and terror they would never stand by and allow it to happen; The way she worded it was "What a way to welcome your child to the world, here, let me cut off part of your dick, PS.. We love you"

So I would highly recommend that you do not mutilate your son's penis.

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Title	Circumcised men are 4.5 times more likely to suffer from erectile dysfunction.
Author	fascistgases
Upvotes	493
Comments	289
Date	December 9, 2012 1:40 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/14iyht/circumcised_men_are_45_times_more_likely_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/circumcised-men-are-45-times-more-likely-to-suffer.1007108 https://theredarchive.com/post/1007108

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