The Gender Pay Gap is a Complete Myth - CBS News

bikemaul · 2012-08-16T04:25:28+00:00

Wow!

This is an insanely good sign to see this on a mainstream site. The author went all the way in rejecting the feminist dogma. This made my day.

wavegeek · 2012-08-16T06:23:25+00:00

"Myth" is a polite way of saying "lie".

Doogie-Howser · 2012-08-16T05:36:05+00:00

I read this as,

The Gender Gay Pap is a Complete Myth. ಠ_ಠ

G-O · 2012-08-16T06:55:40+00:00

The article is over a year old and the wage gap persists. It just never dies.

ClickclickClever · 2012-08-16T07:14:06+00:00

I'm pretty satisfied that a mainstream news source has acknowledged this fact. Now, hopefully it won't be struck down by angry feminists seeking male domination.

When this becomes widely accepted as fact, we'll be one step closer to equity.

nlakes · 2012-08-16T07:09:26+00:00

What complete bullshit that article is.

Women in teaching and the arts are continuously making less than men in senior 60hr work-week, leadership roles. When will the patriarchy end?

DavidByron · 2012-08-16T13:51:14+00:00

Yes by the time women are earning far more than men society will recognise there's no gap. Sounds just like how the education/college gap went.

But this is not that important, what is important is to say that feminists have been deliberately and knowingly lying about this issue (a clear sign of political hate) for decades. In that sense the most hopeful sign was that they included the following quote in the article:

The media need to look beyond the claims of feminist organizations

8Cowboy · 2012-08-16T07:46:29+00:00

Watch out, you've pointed out a valuable myth for the feminist crowd. Be prepared for SRS to attack. You may as well have told them the horrible truth about Santa Claus.

ottawadeveloper · 2012-08-16T19:01:38+00:00

I'm really happy someone wrote this article, because I think it's time we focused on things that are actually wrong in our job market, and not beat the dead issue of equal pay for equal work. It's pretty clear that that's been accomplished. Good.

However, this raises some other interesting points. I'm really curious if we can prove one way or another if the following points are the result of free choice or social pressure. I'm also really sad that some people who wrote about this (in a less extensive manner) got dismissed as SRS trolls. There are still some places (though not as many as radical feminism would have you believe) that women are disadvantaged. If we are fighting for true equality, we must apply rational thought to the argument to determine if there is actually a system of discrimination in place or not that affects each factor.

** Men are more likely to choose careers that are dangerous **

But why are they more likely to? Is it social pressure that keeps women out of these? Is it a lack of physical capability? Is that based simply on body type as a result of sex or is it a lack of exposure to strenuous physical activity in their youth? Are men expected to take on more dangerous tasks still, to "save women from it"? Do some of these have "old boys" clubs, keeping them mostly male-dominated? Why are pilots on this list? There's no physical difference relating to danger keeping women out of being a pilot.

I don't have answers to these (or many other questions). It's just something that should be considered, to explain why there is a wage gap.

** Men are more likely to work in higher-paying fields (by choice) **

Why aren't there more women in computer / engineering? They're equally good at them by aptitude tests. Why aren't there more men in nursing / education? (that one is almost certainly because of the idea that it makes you unmanly, at least in my area). What evidence is there that this is actually free choice and not as a result of other forces?

** Men are more likely to take work in uncomfortable, isolated and/or undesirable locations **

Why? Are men less social than women in general? (I think the answer to that is yes if I remember the study). Are women more attached to their children (or the thought of having children) and therefore shun such assignments?

** Men work longer hours than women do **

Why? Do we expect more work from men than women? Do they have more management positions that take up more time? Higher responsibilities? Why would that be?

** Men are more likely to take jobs that require work on weekends and evenings **

See questions for the last two items - they're pretty much the same considerations.

** Men are more likely to pursue high-stress and higher-paid areas of specialization **

Why? Again, childcare? Social engagements? Are they passed over for opportunities? Is there social stigma against women being surgeons or men being pediatricians?

** Unmarried women who've never had a child, earn more than unmarried men **

This is the kicker. This shows the one main difference that probably explains a lot of the gap. Women have children - our race would not go on without that. Women need time off to have children. This delays their advancement and career each time it happens. It also limits their choices later in life - they're not going to take that job that requires them to work weekends and evenings. Are men therefore less involved in raising their children, and can devote more time to earning money? Why would that be?

** Women business owners make less than half what male business owners make **

They point out some very good reasons for this, so I'm pretty satisfied.

So, to kind of summarize the things I think it would be interesting to look at:

How does having a child impact your earning power over your life? How can we equalize this impact between male and female parents? How can we better assist single parents who have to take the whole impact?
What kind of cultural remnants haunt these fields that are perhaps preventing women from getting involved in them? Are there any at all? Basically, is it truly that women are simply not interested, or are there other factors that play their part?
Along the lines of cultural remnants, why are the rates of pay so much higher for a programmer than a teacher? Is there a legitimate reason for it? Is it an artifact from when teaching was "women's work"?
What kind of psychological and physiological differences actually exist that would explain these choices? Perhaps there is sufficient rationale for this behaviour.

I hate saying this, but bring on the downvotes!

Porksta · 2012-08-16T20:32:42+00:00

I've been trying to convince people of this for years. Why would companies hire men at all if women would do the same work for 25 cents less?

billmcneal · 2012-08-16T15:52:45+00:00

I personally think the immense pay gap between high paid business people and lowly teachers and health care workers is a much more pertinent issue at this point than any male-female gap. The people that are keeping us healthy and educating us and our children should get paid much better than they do. Half the reason more people (and sometimes, better qualified people) don't do those jobs is because of the pay. There are people who would be amazing teachers or nurses who can't because of the costs involved.

inthepalemoonlight · 2012-08-16T08:21:39+00:00

So what if men get paid more for more dangerous jobs. The only issue that is ever wrong is if a man and a woman are doing the exact same job the exact same hours and the man gets paid more.

Spyder_J · 2012-08-16T12:03:18+00:00

It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that men make more money; the willingness to work harder and for longer hours and to prioritize the career is really just a matter of survival, because unlike women, no one is ever going to take care of us.

I left a job recently where I held one of the most senior positions, and I worked with mostly women. We offered my position to a good half dozen of them before giving up and just hiring someone from the outside. Nobody wanted to move into it and take on the extra work and responsibility, even though it would've meant a huge raise. It was stunning to me, because the outlook life has taught me is that if someone offers you an opportunity to make a lot more money, you GTFO of your comfort zone and DO IT, 'cause it doesn't happen every day. Thing is, though, these women just didn't need it; their husbands all had the good careers and made the money, so why should they knock themselves out?

It really is different worlds that the sexes inhabit.

2012-08-16T15:27:17+00:00

Lets hear it for the hard working men out there!

Arlieth · 2012-08-16T21:06:32+00:00

I just came up with a brilliant fucking idea.

Women win the majority of child custody cases in the US, and thus get child support from the father. So...

Why dont we add extra-occupational income to men and women's calculations and see where the INCOME gap leans?

Edit: i am not so brilliant. Forgot to take overtime into account. Derp.

THEMACGOD · 2012-08-16T13:40:52+00:00

I wonder if we should complain that we get killed at a higher rate than women do, on-the-job.

Cerenex · 2012-08-16T08:37:18+00:00

Ah, the power of a logical, factual, well-backed article against feminism. Brings a smile to my face.

2012-08-16T19:17:26+00:00

Glad to see this on a mainstream new site. Hopefully it will garner more attention.

Lifetime average earnings comparisons are ridiculous. Any study that compares per-hour earnings for comparable jobs shows that the pay scale is the same, as it should be. A male computer engineer is going to be making a metric fuckton more hourly than a female teacher, sure. But a female computer engineer, who has the same level of experience and level of contribution, is going to be earning the same hourly wage as the male.

2012-08-16T21:58:41+00:00

based on simple supply and demand, if a company can pay a woman less for the same work then why the fuck would they pay a man more. that's it. we don't even need any evidence to back it up. it's too simple.

mayonesa · 2012-08-16T06:49:18+00:00

If anything, women are proliferating in administrative jobs and earning a lot more than your average more impulsive man. Too bad as detail orientation can obscure the big picture.

Dwemer23 · 2012-08-16T07:59:01+00:00

graffiti81 · 2012-08-16T13:45:49+00:00

Don't get me wrong, I agree but

Men are far more likely to choose careers that are more dangerous, so they naturally pay more. Top 10 most dangerous jobs (from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics): Fishers, loggers, aircraft pilots, farmers and ranchers, roofers, iron and steel workers, refuse and recyclable material collectors, industrial machinery installation and repair, truck drivers, construction laborers. They're all male-dominated jobs.

Are they saying that these are high payed jobs? With the exception of a few types of fishing (tuna, crab, etc) pilots and some steel workers, none of those are high payed unless you own the company. One might make a living, but certainly those guys aren't getting rich.

iExtrapolate · 2012-08-16T07:16:28+00:00

Relevant

pizzlybear · 2012-08-16T12:52:00+00:00

I think IQ distribution matters. Males have a wider distribution, meaning there are more geniuses and dummies than females, who congregate more around the mean. And given the IQ-income correlation, I think it's something to consider.

SteelCrossx · 2012-08-16T08:01:00+00:00

This kind of shows sexism on both men and women's parts. Men are expected to take the jobs they do because they're men and vice versa. I don't deny the article, but if women were encouraged to become crab fishermen instead of being told it's too dangerous for them or if more men were told it's not a sign of weakness to be a hair dresser then I think we'd see the "pay gap" equalize.

Mathilde_est_revenue · 2012-08-16T22:08:54+00:00

Interesting and rather convincing article, but I am not sure it's that simple... At least, looking up the subject on Wiki, I found some sources that claim otherwise: "[A] comprehensive study by the staff of the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that the gender wage gap can only be partially explained by human capital factors and "work patterns." The GAO study, released in 2003, was based on data from 1983 through 2000 from a representative sample of Americans between the ages of 25 and 65. The researchers controlled for "work patterns," including years of work experience, education, and hours of work per year, as well as differences in industry, occupation, race, marital status, and job tenure. With controls for these variables in place, the data showed that women earned, on average, 20% less than men during the entire period 1983 to 2000. In a subsequent study, GAO found that the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and the Department of Labor "should better monitor their performance in enforcing anti-discrimination laws."[21][22][23] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States

Wxnzxn · 2012-08-16T15:54:29+00:00

Doesn't this article indicate that there is a cultural pressure on women to choose different careers than men, which results in them being merginalized?

Just because it is their own choice to pursue different careers does not change that their own choice was influenced by our culture. All it says in my opinion is, that the whole "gender pay gap" is heavily misunderstood, and should be viewed in a completely different way. Yet there still is something to observe and criticize here. "Complete myth" would imply that there is actually complete falsehood, and not just a confusion about the causes and reasons behind it.

Szos · 2012-08-16T13:04:49+00:00

Why doesn't someone post this in one of the woman subreddits?

selfoner · 2012-08-16T13:24:02+00:00

tl;dr='Men get all the best jobs therefore women deserve crappy pay.'

Seems legit guys.

Title	The Gender Pay Gap is a Complete Myth - CBS News
Author	curious67
Upvotes	767
Comments	198
Date	August 16, 2012 3:59 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/yawcn/the_gender_pay_gap_is_a_complete_myth_cbs_news/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth-cbs-news.1015744 https://theredarchive.com/post/1015744

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