How much of the RP is based on bully/victim dynamics between men?

Mark_Freed · 2022-02-22T16:06:39+00:00

When I was school, I was bullied by this guy. I forgave him eventually because hate and anger just hurts you. I visited his home and realised his family was fucked up and the poor dude had his reasons. He was jealous of me too I bet. It was also his twisted way of being “friends” with me.

I recently reconnected with him. The guy had a great romantic life, dated many girls and married a nice pretty girl by all accounts. It was very interesting.

Back in school I didn’t think he was particularly successful with the girls. I mean he was definitely more popular than me, it was more like “oh stop it you are so bad” than any genuine disgust or anger. Both men and women tend to try and ignore bullies, not provoke them and not be friendly either.

After my experience with school… I learned how not to be bullied. I fought back and made sure not to be an easy target, nerd schools had their own ways of asserting dominance and establishing hierarchies which weren’t physical.

But I knew bullies, they were assholes, they picked on the weaker guys and i honestly avoided them. But from a distance I saw them not do too badly. I don’t think they are the most attractive guys but they are more desired than the weak, agreeable nice guys who don’t have a backbone.

I don’t think this fact was so blatant that it red pilled me or anyone I know. It is weird… looking back I can see the patterns. I think a lot of it is confirmation bias. Being blue pilled you don’t want to believe that immoral traits can be sexy. So you ignore it even when it stares you in the face.

To end on a positive note. The girls who are attracted to these guys are not exactly well adjusted humans. Lots of them had mental issues. I have stories…. Some of them are fun, they end up engaging in risky behaviour together. Allegations are thrown about, nudes leaked. It’s a chaotic world and I’m not sure the folk who are jealous truly understand the tradeoffs.

Elegant-Umpire7385 · 2022-02-22T16:29:11+00:00

This has been worked out years ago. Basic features of primate psychology and behavior observed in many ape species. There's usually a top alpha of the tribe, and the alpha grows old or there's a young up and comer. The up and comer has to KILL the old guy, and fight off or KILL other beta contenders.

The IMMEDIATE consequence of a new guy winning all those fights, of violently proving dominant status among the men, is that ALL the females clamber to mate with him.

That's all that's going on here.

Otherwise female sexuality is transactional for resources or status/attention. Women will seek long term commitment from the type of man that seems to have an ability to protect (tall, muscles), but the primary sexual interest is ever and always devoted to the "top" guy. And the majority of men who seem like they could get beat up by the tall/muscle set will only ever get intermittent sexual attention in exchange for resources. Which is why women absolutely hate marriage, and love the pill and abortion. The prospect of having to remain sexually exclusive with some guy you settled for because he piqued your interest for a season once is the female version of a living hell and why they are so aggressive and adamant about their rights in this regard (right to divorce a man at will without forfeiting his resources).

And to a large degree their sexual interest in the top male is almost more of the female side of competition for a place in the dominance hierarchy. Watch "The Bachelor" and observe the games the women are playing with each other. Lol, spoilers: it's not a show about love, it's a contest show, a modern day female power struggle for dominance in the tribe (simulated).

DerekMorganBAU · 2022-02-22T18:00:45+00:00

You missed the fact that women will join in on the bullying too if you don’t stand up for yourself. I went to a hood school, a charter school, and a public school. It’s all the same.

What red pilled me was growing up watching women drool over the drug dealers, thugs, gangstas, rappers and abusers. Didn’t matter if she was a hood rat or a good girl, they both still fucked them.

KillaKyleKlan · 2022-02-22T15:54:49+00:00

You can put people in their place and not be a dick, that's where staying calm and collected comes in. You're stronger when you're not lashing out or giving af what that person is saying. Just calmly pick apart what they're saying. Women like dominant men even though they say they don't, they're not aware of their own nature or are shamed because "we need to be just like men" aka false feminist lies...

logiauser · 2022-02-22T15:39:30+00:00

Almost none. How do men get to the RP? It's because they get so wound up by how terrible women acted in their pasts. It's so illogical that they need to find someway of making sense of it.

That's it. It's not an intra-male bullying issue. It's a women are awful to date right now issue. Men are just sharing solutions on how to deal with it.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-02-22T15:38:04+00:00

It's controversial to say, but bullying is likely evolved behavior that had social utility. It probably still does, but the threshold with respect to the level and type of bullying that is useful, and that which is not, will have changed.

Furthermore, there are almost always better ways to accomplish what bullying does. That said, a lot of people don't have the level of sophistication when young to know a better way to accomplish what bullying does in a better way.

I innately hate bullying, but I do wonder whether in our well meaning attempts to eliminate all of it, we haven't sometimes gone too far; or at least, we haven't replaced bullying with something less harmful that still accomplishes the same goal of showing boys what kind of weak behavior is not to be tolerated, and toughening them up. It could be that our efforts to reduce bullying are also producing weaker, softer boys and men that women themselves find unattractive.

purplish_possum · 2022-02-22T17:08:51+00:00

Being dominant and being a bully are not the same thing.

cowfishAreReal · 2022-02-22T15:28:43+00:00

Because insecure men like to put other men down to feel better

GuitarsBack · 2022-02-22T15:51:07+00:00

The "alpha" is the abuser and the women enablers or cheerleaders.

I haven't seen this happen a lot.

The issue with standing up to bullying in the context of red pill, blue pill and women I find important is the "turn the other cheek, violence is not a solution, solve conflicts with words not violence"- mentality that is often endorsed by women. Especially mothers. School policies, too.

It really held me back.

Understanding that violence against bullies is fucking awesome and a great solution was a red pill for me. A real paradigm- shift.

Complete-Temporary-6 · 2022-02-22T15:26:06+00:00

Becoming an alpha type requires that, I think. If you're not riding solo, you have to dominate over people, especially your male orbiters.

UnfurtletDawn · 2022-02-22T15:50:20+00:00

I got the best looks from girls when I kicked the bullies butts.

And maybe the girls just don't want to be the victim.

Maybe they are assholes themselves and propably aren't good people to begin with.

Being bully might be "cool" but beating the bully is way cooler.

LittyKitsune · 2022-02-22T15:37:47+00:00

Believe it or not, those bullies tend to have female targets as well.

The kind of women who are just standing around admiring what he does are women he's decided not to torment for whatever reason. Maybe he finds them attractive, they're into watching people suffer, they know better than to snitch on him, they give him something in return for not being a target themselves. Maybe there are other bullies so from it's better to ingratiate yourself to one who sucks less than to be open season for someone worse.

The point is, this idea yet again represents the selection effect that happens when you base your ideas of "female nature" on a specific group of women who are drawn to specific behaviors. The kinds of women who are attracted to bullies are generally not angels themselves, and surrounding yourself with them is just going to create a toxic feedback loop of people who want to be miserable together.

VasiliyZaitzev · 2022-02-22T17:16:47+00:00

The "alpha" is the abuser and the women enablers or cheerleaders.

I disagree as it relates to TRP.

Any human interaction can/will have elements of the human experience, including bullying, because humans are involved.

That said, TRP teaches guys to work on themselves and develop confidence - that's actually less likely to turn them into victims.

I was at a recent off-board gathering that had a bunch of TRPers at it. One guy walked up to me and hugged me and said, "You changed my life."* I've worked with him and so have a few of the other "elders" as it were. When he started, he was basically one lay away from being a kissless virgin. Since then he got himself a gf, then broke up with her when she tried to pull some bullshit (instead of just going along with it, which a BP guy might have done) and is developing into a confident baller. He also recently got a new gig that came with a >70% pay hike. Now, part of that was that he was severely undervalued at his last gig, but a big chunk of it was him being coached on how and what to do and say, and to go out and look for smth better. If he was BP he might have stayed where he was, took what he was given, etc.

Another guy had done a lot for the group that weekend and taken the initiative to do things that needed to be done. He has a need to be appreciated so I made sure to point out his efforts to the group and call him "The Real MVP" of the weekend.

In that group of 15-20 guys, while guys will smack talk each other in the normal way that men do, nobody bullies anyone, runs other guys down, etc., because there's no point to it, and it's a shitty thing to do. If you have to make others feel bad so that you can feel good, then you have a fundamental character flaw problem.

poppy_blu · 2022-02-22T19:11:04+00:00

So wait… RP is men bullying men… but the villain here is still women — even when the sub doesn’t even allow women to participate?

LMFAO.

PPD needs to just change its name to “every fucking thing is wimminz fault.”

DiabloTheDreamer · 2022-02-22T15:43:03+00:00

I had this happen to me a lot and i curse those bullies to this day. Why oh why must i fight most men for women?? this competition is stupid. No one stopped me in my tracks with the ,,hey bro she's mine beat it'' but there were gym guys beefed up morons like that who did give me the dirty eye when i was looking at women at they gym. Happened at university too, always gym guys - and they say people are friendly in fitness = well not really. I said to myself next time this happens i will plung a dumbbell in his face but i just left the gym, this was years ago but it still hurts. To me that was bullying i don't care there are plenty of women and men these stupid men on roids are ill thinking they have to fight for every woman. This is toxic masculinity

spinsterchachkies · 2022-02-22T16:56:42+00:00

So there’s good dominance, and bad dominance. Bullies are bad dominance. Abusers are bad dominance.

Good dominance is protecting the weak and vulnerable, standing up for yourself, self defense. Etc…

Women are human being with flaws. And depending on their upbringing, they can mistake bad dominance for good dominance. So maybe they were raised with an abusive father, and they see that as an attractive quality in a man. Who knows.

But you should try to avoid bad qualities in yourself to attract women that look for good qualities in a partner. Just saying

TheFluffShoes · 2022-02-22T15:54:43+00:00

This is the one of the best descriptions of redpill I've read.

We men know a lot more about relationships and male/female dynamics than we are willing to admit. Redpill is just abusers abusing abusers. Redpill men believe women aren't entitled to basic rights such as the right to free expression because they literally believe men are superior to women. The basis of redpill is dehumanizing and belittling women, which is the very definition of abuse.

I was reading a wonderful post on FDS talking about how men know the bar for their behaviour is low, so as long as men aren't engaging in spousal rape or domestic violence, society will continue to act like a lazy deadbeat is a gift, when he's not. We could remedy this if we men lovingly challenged each other to be the best versions of ourselves, but we don't because life is easier for us when we use physically abusive men to gaslight women as to what abuse really is. Abuse comes in several shapes and forms, and any action that makes a woman feel disrespected, belittled, or dehumanized is abuse. By this definition, I'd say that most men have, at one time or another, abused women in relationships. The reason abusers abuse is to gain power they don't deserve, and because men have gotten accustomed to unnecessary privileges gained from abuse, we're reluctant to quit abusing and show other men that a happy life without the power of abuse is possible.

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ruboyuri · 2022-02-22T16:51:42+00:00

Yes, red pill wants the best, and being the best is usually achieved by competition and winning. It’s not just for men, either.

2022-02-22T18:58:09+00:00

There's a lot of this in the married RP sub. Guys trash talk, mock, belittle and insult each other. On TRP women's sub they're nice to each other. Lol.

ex_red_black_piller · 2022-02-22T19:36:43+00:00

> when I've had to be more dominant against others, particularly other men for various reasons, I've gotten more attention from women around me.

Women never fail to disappoint.

Insidious-Sid · 2022-02-22T20:25:35+00:00

Look at all the tropes and memes of the quintessential "toxically masculine" bully - he's always surrounded by an entourage complete with a bunch of good looking women.

We've always believed that "fans of the bully" were just as shitty as the bully himself.

But, generally society rewards good looking people and society rewards bullies.

Look at CEOs - they are notoriously Machiavellian and narcissistic if they don't suffer from narcissistic personality disorder outright. And these are the "heros" of our society, the social alphas. And their tyranny runs down hill and seems to become even worse as it manifests in middle managers who's apparent life's mission is to make other people stressed out and miserable.

At the end of the day, society rewards "the men with the stuff" - the status.

How those men got there is usually a means to an end.

The ironic part is that women want to "crush capitalism" and "stomp patriarchy" but really, this is the source of all of their heroes. This is the source of the men women reward and pursue.

HoardersEpisode · 2022-02-23T09:40:03+00:00

This is clear from grade school. The dominant bullies who are more rebellious in nature and always in trouble are more popular.

neetykeeno · 2022-02-22T16:12:48+00:00

I think a lot of unattractive guys go after the same girls the attractive guys do and like to orbit and hang around waiting for a chance. The attractive guys learn the pattern and recognise it because it happens over and over there is always one of those slimey pathetic guys around. And often they talk to their girlfriend about it and on some level she's just not ok with it but has trouble repelling the orbiter...maybe he shows up at her work or home or group events, maybe she's scared of how he will behave if she just tells him to stay away, maybe she is scared of splitting her friend group.

And then the attractive guy takes care of it by waiting until he gets a very appropriate chance to make a solid demonstration of force.

And the unattractive orbiter has a big fat whine about it to his similarly unattractive friends including a whine about how pleased and relieved the girl looked while he was being pinned to the ground or.shoved against a wall and smacked about and humiliated.

The thing the unattractive guy always leaves out of the story is what he was up to (pushing the boundaries of another guys girlfriend) and how he always knew it bothered her but kept doing it anyway because she couldn't pin him to the ground and smack his head for him a few times...and even if she could it wouldn't be accepted by society as gender conforming behaviour.

No fucking sympathy for orbiters that get smacked round. If you weren't a fucking boundary pushing dipshit it probably wouldn't have happened, the boyfriend would have just kept a close eye on you.

C_Sec_Matt · 2022-02-22T15:39:31+00:00

None.

It doesn't advocate for abuse of any type.

It does talk about and encourage healthy competition. Because that is what dating and mating is. So be better than other men if you want better selection of women.

Putting other men down doesn't make you better than them, full stop.

A violent Chad, isn't a chad. Confident men do not feel the need to put somebody else down to raise themselves.

Guess you could argue that some women do respond to this bullying stuff positively but I'd personally not consider them quality women...as women are (supposedly) more empathetic and nurturing.

Smiling and celebrating somebodies discomfort is the opposite of those, is it not?

wtknight · 2022-02-22T18:05:59+00:00

If a man stands up to bullies then I think it’s even better than if he’s the bully himself. It means that she knows that he’s kind and will be kind to her, unlike the bully, but will also protect her from threats. It’s not as much about being a bully as it is just having a backbone and not being a doormat.

Pola_Lita · 2022-02-22T18:28:28+00:00

Without defining what constitutes "bullying" as opposed to simple dominant personality, none of this means much.

Dismissal, argument, even ridicule are too often considered bullying, when if that were the true definition, even the lowest member in the pecking order would qualify as a bully. The definition needs to include more than just standard methods of communication.

Particularly among men, or at least it seems to me.

Title	How much of the RP is based on bully/victim dynamics between men?
Author	No-Border680
Upvotes	39
Comments	114
Date	February 22, 2022 3:21 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/syq47d/how_much_of_the_rp_is_based_on_bullyvictim/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-much-of-the-rp-is-based-on-bullyvictim.1103517 https://theredarchive.com/post/1103517

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